Transfer?

[The Truth]

If a girl goes to a junior high outside of her school district (Lets say North St Paul) and plays varsity hockey in 8th grade for that school district but then goes to high school in the district that she lives in (Lets say St Paul) does she have to sit out a year or can she automatically start playing for the St Paul School?

[ghshockeyfan]

My understanding is that ANY movement before 9th is not an issue. Entering 9th you can go wherever you want without penalty.

Exception may be non-MN kid coming into MN while maintaining non-MN residence?

Once in 9th and you walk through that door you are owned now by that HS. You can transfer & sit or move & don't or could appeal as needed I supppose...

[Thunderbird77]

Wasn't there a provision in the new rules that would prevent an athlete from playing varsity as an 8th grader at their local school and then transferring (either to a private or through OE)? I specifically remember this being discussed. If it got omitted, it provides a nice loophole for younger players.

[ghshockeyfan]

It's been removed. There was something in the initial language but like the private districts it was dropped it appears. Nice loophole. So too was all 7th to 8th transfer stuff dropped.

[twowayplay]

Any new transfers show up on first day of school?

[Northland]

Any new transfers show up on first day of school?

Wasn't it just the privates that started today?

[twowayplay]

Yes mostly privates but, some started on Monday

[ghshockeyfan]

So much for kids trying to move without a lot of publicity! I did see some names mentioned on other threads here but I'll leave it to others to post. I know of a couple in & out of my own community but I'll leave those alone for now too.

[Melvin44]

Prior to making the decision to move your child from one school to another, please consider whether your reasioning is sound. I see that there are a few girls that have switched schools 2 or 3 times in the last couple of years. How about showing some loyalty to a school or community for gosh sake! Only one school wins the state championship each year!

The Reasons - Coaches fault, not enough playing time, switching for a better education (really?), switching to be with her friends, skates didn't fit, stick was too heavy. Always a reason other than working harder or standing by a decision and then sucking it up when things don't go perfect. What example in life are you sending your child? Our children need to learn by their losses and failures, as well a their wins and successes. We also need to teach our children the value of dedication and loyalty.

I think that the decision to switch your child to another school should be considered a serious and long thought out decision; not one to be made lightly. I do feel that one school change is understandable for the right reasons, however, not for SPORTS.

We looked into Hill last year, as both their Hockey and Soccer coaches told me she would play varsity, but most importantly she would get a better education. My daughter asked me if she could stay at her current school. She said she would take advanced classes, get A's, give her all to help the team win, yet continue to be with the friends she grew up with. Her team had a losing record last year in hockey, and she didn't make Varsity soccer last year, but she accomplished her most important goal of academic success. She has the same goals this year and has been telling me she's going to work even harder to achieve them, and I believe her.

Now that they can't change schools as easy my guess/bet is they'll be off to the Thoroughbreds next year.

If she's good enough they will find her!

[ghshockeyfan]

One of the reasons I support the "BAGEL" is that it gives kids a chance to play elite level hockey before & after the HS season without having to transfer or go to T-Breds.

I've heard private HS's even tell kids that if they come it will make them look more attractive to distant colleges as the kids will have "proven they can handle the move to a better situation, away from what they know. etc." I'm not so sure...

I don't think multiple moves are wrong as kids may try something and find out it really wasn't best for THEM. It might be right for SOME, or MANY, but not ALL. Not that this means the school is bad, etc. Just may not fit them.

Of course, if it's all really about school and nothing about sports, then why not let kids play in their home area no matter where they go to HS? The new transfer rule that allows you to play at former school when transferring vs. sit out a year is a very interesting step in this very direction I believe... Of course, this would put privates out of business sports wise, and we can't do that, so instead maybe you could just give kids the OPTION to play where they go to school even if OE, etc. or allow them to ALWAYS have the chance to play with their friends/home area HS team, etc.?

[joehockey]

GH love all you do for girls hockey - BAGEL is just another shinning example. I marvel and applaud your measured approach on all.

Kids do transfer for multiple reasons and it is a personal and family decision - sometimes things aren't as they appear on the outside and a parents first job is to prepare a kid for life. The old "never say never always applies" and conditions can become unforseen - no one can judge and people probably shouldn't worry about others - there is not a right or wrong.

I think for some kids tranfer is a good option for others the opportunity to play with the Thoroughbreds is a good option, or Shattuck or Culver, for others or most to stay in the environment they know is best.

Totally agree kids have to focus on school and academics first...amazing to me how many girls playing HS hockey are +/-4.0 students...and then the bonuses of sports - they probably go hand in hand. Most get from sport great work ethic, leadership, team skills and mental toughness - these are lifetime success skills. (And if you want to play at the D1 level you probably should arrive with that skill set intact or you may not enjoy the experience much.)

Last in the global and mobile society we live in being able to adapt to change, and new situations might be a lifetime skill to as most people move jobs and geographic locations over their career multiple times.

GH again thanks for all you do - looking forward to seeing BAGEL be a big success and as you say very important.

[SportsMa]

Article in the Star Tribune.

http://www.startribune.com/526/story/1421811.html

"John Millea: Slowing school-hopping
Tougher transfer rules are having the desired effect of preserving the integrity of high school sports."

[Central]

Looks like at least 119 transfers were not likely athletics related.

[hockeyheaven]

Looks like at least 119 transfers were not likely athletics related.

Or... there lays the real tragedy associated with the new rule. A possible 119 student athletes who are not going to be able to participate in their chosen sport this year. 119 sacrifices so we can be rid of this monumental quandary we found our selves in.

I don’t care how many times it’s presented to me I cannot understand why student (athlete) transfers are of such a concern. Unless I’m mistaken, there were 262 transfers out of say conservatively, 100,000 student athletes. That means there is all this strife over .003 % of the student athlete population. That’s like having 450 M&Ms in a bowl and getting upset because 1 fell on the floor. To me it is simply toooo insignificant to fuss over this issue enough to create a system that can potentially punish someone because of simple ignorance, or even worse, the dastardly act of trying create a better situation for themself.

[Northland]

Looks like at least 119 transfers were not likely athletics related.

Or... there lays the real tragedy associated with the new rule. A possible 119 student athletes who are not going to be able to participate in their chosen sport this year. 119 sacrifices so we can be rid of this monumental quandary we found our selves in.

I don’t care how many times it’s presented to me I cannot understand why student (athlete) transfers are of such a concern. Unless I’m mistaken, there were 262 transfers out of say conservatively, 100,000 student athletes. That means there is all this strife over .003 % of the student athlete population. That’s like having 450 M&Ms in a bowl and getting upset because 1 fell on the floor. To me it is simply toooo insignificant to fuss over this issue enough to create a system that can potentially punish someone because of simple ignorance, or even worse, the dastardly act of trying create a better situation for themself.

I typed out a big long response to this and deleted it. We all have our own opinions so ..... nevermind.


.

[PuxRinmyblood]

HH-While I respect the opinion, I can't agree with much of your post. A few thoughts-

First, "Tragedy" is a poor choice of words. Missing a season if a player decides to transfer schools is no doubt unpleasant, and perhaps traumatic, but it's not really a tragedy in the grand scheme of things, especially if a personal choice is involved (see below). The use of the word "sacrifice" is equally odious. One hopes you were trying to make a point by being ironic.

Second, if viewed from another angle, perhaps this would have greater significance. If you (or your son or daughter) is displaced by one of those .003% that elect to transfer, all this strife might have a more personal impact, and perhaps those opposed to this rule would have a greater understanding (Note that this displacement would be involuntary and hold no personal choice for the displacee). Or...maybe if your community doesn't go to the state tournament because the school that knocked you off has a few imports that tipped the balance, that might be considered significant. Perspective is reality.

Third, everyone has choices. If the school district you live in has aspects of it that you don't like, either regarding educational opportunity or extracurriculars, by all means, seek out better pastures. There is nothing "dastardly" about this in the least. That said, it would appear that in order to avoid a teenage version of free agency, the MSHSL has elected to make movement more difficult for those who will do so for purely athletic reasons. Now my humble opinion (which admittedly may not be shared by many) is that schools exist for education, and not for winning state championships. Go to school and work hard to better yourself,and the rest of the incidentals will take care of themselves. Now, I am sure that there are players who are transferring for educational reasons (or to escape other bad personal situations) who get stiffed by this new rule, but they still get a choice.

-Pux

[hockeyheaven]

HH-While I respect the opinion, I can't agree with much of your post. A few thoughts-

First, "Tragedy" is a poor choice of words. Missing a season if a player decides to transfer schools is no doubt unpleasant, and perhaps traumatic, but it's not really a tragedy in the grand scheme of things, especially if a personal choice is involved (see below). The use of the word "sacrifice" is equally odious. One hopes you were trying to make a point by being ironic.

Second, if viewed from another angle, perhaps this would have greater significance. If you (or your son or daughter) is displaced by one of those .003% that elect to transfer, all this strife might have a more personal impact, and perhaps those opposed to this rule would have a greater understanding (Note that this displacement would be involuntary and hold no personal choice for the displacee). Or...maybe if your community doesn't go to the state tournament because the school that knocked you off has a few imports that tipped the balance, that might be considered significant. Perspective is reality.

Third, everyone has choices. If the school district you live in has aspects of it that you don't like, either regarding educational opportunity or extracurriculars, by all means, seek out better pastures. There is nothing "dastardly" about this in the least. That said, it would appear that in order to avoid a teenage version of free agency, the MSHSL has elected to make movement more difficult for those who will do so for purely athletic reasons. Now my humble opinion (which admittedly may not be shared by many) is that schools exist for education, and not for winning state championships. Go to school and work hard to better yourself,and the rest of the incidentals will take care of themselves. Now, I am sure that there are players who are transferring for educational reasons (or to escape other bad personal situations) who get stiffed by this new rule, but they still get a choice.

-Pux

Yes…I do believe we will have to agree to disagree on this one. Your argument makes a lot of assumptions and places the burden to bear on the transferee because they are the only one making a choice. The fact is no one knows why the choice was made. As far as we know there may not have been any other choice. As far as the poor individual who gets displaced, come on. What about the choice they made not to work hard in the off season in the attempt to fight for the position you are declaring is rightfully theirs. Sports, like life teaches us that we are guaranteed nothing in this world. As far as winning the State tournament, again come on. Some of the greatest teams of all time never won the State title, and for those teams who win without transfers....well a greater sense of pride is theirs.

[PuxRinmyblood]

HH-

You claim that I am making a lot of assumptions. This is not true. I have attempted to show how perspectives may be different dependent on how transfers affect different individuals. A few points:

I am unaware of any situation where transferring does not involve a choice, except for possible expulsion (in which case sports are not likely to be a serious issue), or moving (in which case the transfer rule does not apply). This is not to say that choices may not involve consequence.

As for the "poor individual who gets displaced", I have provided no declaration that a position ought to be "rightfully theirs" I have noted that a player displaced by a transfer might be pretty upset by this displacement. If there is an assumption made, it is in the statement that a displaced player chose not to work hard in the offseason in the attempt to fight for a position. Do you honestly believe that there are no situations where a talented and hardworking player could get the rug pulled out from them by a transfer?, Or that to that individual, this may be catastrophic? In your words, "come on".

To the point that there are no guarantees in life, I would agree completely with you. However, I would also reason that there is no guarantee in life to transfer because you would rather play for a different coach, better team, different situation, what have you.....or for that matter play sports at all.

At no time would I state that there are not often good reasons to transfer. I have good friends who have made that decision for their children. Good for them. However, such a decision always involves a choice, and has repercussions.

Regarding my reference to the State tournament. It was an attempt to show that perspective matters. Like it or not, agree with it or not, it's pretty much a fact that teams that win the tournament by improving their teams with transfers (instead of say, developing their talent) make a lot of people upset. Note that the Star Tribune Article cited in this thread is titled ".....desired effect of preserving the integrity of high school sports."

My personal opinion: I dislike the idea of players transferring for the express desire to play on a great sports team. As noted in my earlier post, this is nothing more than teenage free agency. If for any reason, your family feels the need to transfer, I say go for it, but be ready to accept the one year penalty.

-Pux

[GoFigure]

Looks like at least 119 transfers were not likely athletics related.

Or... there lays the real tragedy associated with the new rule. A possible 119 student athletes who are not going to be able to participate in their chosen sport this year. 119 sacrifices so we can be rid of this monumental quandary we found our selves in.

I don’t care how many times it’s presented to me I cannot understand why student (athlete) transfers are of such a concern. Unless I’m mistaken, there were 262 transfers out of say conservatively, 100,000 student athletes. That means there is all this strife over .003 % of the student athlete population. That’s like having 450 M&Ms in a bowl and getting upset because 1 fell on the floor. To me it is simply toooo insignificant to fuss over this issue enough to create a system that can potentially punish someone because of simple ignorance, or even worse, the dastardly act of trying create a better situation for themself.

The number one reason people are getting so upset over transers is becasue...they are the best of the best. Period! They opt for better in life, for a chance at privilege. Anyone has this opportunity. Whether it be for athletics or accademics, it is a personal and private matter that people need to be respectful of. I continually read these posts where people are so negative and rude...if you don't have anything nice to say...zip it! And no I don't have any kids in a private school or high school for that matter!

[xk1]

Just how dead does this horse have to be before people stop beating it?

[MNHockeyFan]

Just how dead does this horse have to be before people stop beating it?

Yep, unless there is a huge public outcry over the new rules, which ain't happening, this old horse isn't going to jump back to life any time soon.

[hesabaddmann]

beating a dead horse way too long is almost as American as riding them used to be....