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'Tonka and girls hockey history
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zamboni14



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: 'Tonka and girls hockey history Reply with quote

so when people talk about dominating programs in boys hockey, usually it starts with Edina with other great eras being mentioned (Jefferson in the early 90s as an example.)

So where does this most recent state championship put the 'Tonka girls hockey team since they are the first team to win 3 titles in a row?

SSP still has more titles overall (4 between both A and AA.) Roseville, Blake and Tonka have the 2nd most (all tied with 3.)

So are they the current "top program in girls hockey history" or are they just the top team "today?"
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sinbin



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tonka is obviously the top program of today and what they just accomplished (3 consecutive AA championships) will likely never happen again. And, this current/recent Tonka team is clearly the best team of all time (if you use state championships and/or D1 players as the yardstick). But as far as a program goes, that's a more difficult question. I would certainly not even consider any Class A teams winning titles in this discussion. SSP won 3 out of 4 of their titles as a single-class team and one Class A title so they are certainly under consideration. Both SSP and Roseville have had traditionally strong programs and have the most state tournament appearances, so have a richer history. Minnetonka has never lost a state tournament game and just for them to make it to State is an incredible accomplishment since they play in by far the toughest section in the state and they don't have a relatively easy path to state like some teams do. I would tend to give more weight to more recent champions since they competed in an era when girls hockey is much more competitive and there are far more teams. Did Tonka even have a girls' team in the 1990's? (The Montreal Canadians have the most Stanley Cups, but how many of them were earned when there were only 6 NHL teams?). But how much weight do you give a team for merely making it to State vs. championships, and 2nd place/3rd place/consolation? SSP had a very strong run indeed in the early/mid 2000s. So, SSP has perhaps the richest history, but Tonka has certainly been the most dominant once they joined the state champion club. Id be interested in other perspectives, since Im sure that there are many.
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AV dad



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 26

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is easy to see the effect one or two elite players can have on an otherwise ordinary team, so to field a team with as many as seven legitimate D1 players is mind-boggling to me.

A look at the season stats suggests that Minnetonka is not building a long-term dynasty, but will return to earth next year. That said, I am very impressed not only with the talent that Minnetonka puts on the ice, but also with the leadership that group of girls has displayed going all the way back to youth hockey. They have played their entire careers with a target on their backs, yet have never come out flat in a big game.

Hats off to an outstanding group of players, and I look forward to following them on USCHO in future years.
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Bulldog3489



Joined: 28 Jan 2013
Posts: 97

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Eden Prairie had something like 5 losses over four seasons with an undefeated 2006 season.
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AV dad



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the 3-0 differential in state championships proves my point.
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sinbin



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, EP's 2006-2008 teams with two state championships was a nice run. Also, Tonka will likely have at least 8 D1 players on this team when all is said and done. Tonka will come back to earth next year, but will still be competitive. They'll still have a huge target on their backs as there are many teams waiting in line for some payback. They'll still be in the toughest conference in the state and the toughest section in the state, so just to have made it to State 3 years in a row is an incredible accomplishment in its own right. Based on their current youth program results, it will be a few years before they'll be able to challenge for the crown (unless they join their competitors and start to recruit).
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D6 Girls Fan



Joined: 03 Mar 2010
Posts: 171

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this is as impressive a stretch as any in history. When SSP was running off the championships, girls hockey wasn't as competitive or organized as it is now. Stack it along with having to emerge from the toughest conference and toughest section, and this run has been amazing.

Ad they COULD do it again next year. BSM (unless they have some unknown transfer coming in) lose 2/3rds of their defense, and its been defense where they've fallen apart. Hopkins and Buffalo will likely be better. While no program will lose more talent than Tonka, their JV is deep and skilled. But if they do emerge from D6, Eden Prairie, Hill-Murray and Mounds View are young deep and talented. This, I suppose would make a good new topic. Congrats to Minnetonka, the best team in Girls HS History(?)
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zamboni14



Joined: 16 Jan 2011
Posts: 82

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bulldog3489 wrote:
Eden Prairie had something like 5 losses over four seasons with an undefeated 2006 season.


how many state titles did they win during that span? Wasn't 3. And that's why I put the question out there.

Are they the best program in state history (for now) or are they just the best program "right now" (like Jefferson in boys hockey in the early 90s.)

I do think that 'Tonka will be back at state in the near future (maybe not next season.) Because the teams my niece would face (she plays for MG) would usually qualify for either state or beat most of the other top teams at that age group (my niece was a freshman this past hockey season.. so give it a year or two and 'Tonka should be back.)
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36Guy



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why dance around the question. There has never been a run like this and for sure not at the AA level. Yes, there is a difference between AA and A, primarily in depth. With less depth of teams the easier the run.

In addition, their section is ridiculous, which makes it like running through 2 state tourneys.

Folks placing in state is not that hard! If you have an OK record, an easy section, it is right there for you. For example, play a weak schedule and go 19-6. Play in an easy section and win it. Now, get a cream puff in the first round and you are already placing in state, with a chip and a chair to win won game to get in the State Championship.

However, win a very difficult section for 3 years and to not lose a state game for 3 years is very difficult.

As far as Tonka's demise next year, let's wait and see. With possibly the best goalie in the state. The best player on D in the state, another D1 defensemen and 5 girls form their top 3 lines returning, they make surprise us all. Not predicting another title, or even another state appearance. But a lot of people were saying the same thing when Rachel Ramsey and crew left.
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sinbin



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, 36guy, and Tonka will have a HUGE target on their backs next season yet again. They'll have to come up with some scoring, but are solid on D and Goalie. Also, they did have 4 losses this season as they experimented with lines and had some players missing, all while playing the most difficult schedule in the state (we see how well MV did with their weak schedule and gaudy record), but Tonka beat Blake 7-1 the final game before sections, beat 2nd-place HM twice by a combined score of 7-1, beat 4th place EP twice, beat the second best team in the state, BSM, twice, and beat consolation champ Eagan (with Megan Wolf) 9-1.

There are plenty of young, talented, and hungry teams out there who want what Tonka has, but Tonka seems to relish the target on their backs and to thrive because of it.
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royals dad



Joined: 30 Dec 2008
Posts: 434

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hats off to them, the players and staff have made a legacy that can never be taken away. Almost every other great team has had a side note about move ins or recruiting, and the core of this team (and the last few teams) came up together through girls youth hockey. That is a pretty cool thing. I wouldn't count out a team that has Baldwin and Crow at D with Hannah in the net. Not sure any team will come into next season as strong as Tonka and BSM did this year. Should be a fun one and wide open season to watch next year.
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36Guy



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
Posts: 384

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

royals dad wrote:
Hats off to them, the players and staff have made a legacy that can never be taken away. Almost every other great team has had a side note about move ins or recruiting, and the core of this team (and the last few teams) came up together through girls youth hockey. That is a pretty cool thing. I wouldn't count out a team that has Baldwin and Crow at D with Hannah in the net. Not sure any team will come into next season as strong as Tonka and BSM did this year. Should be a fun one and wide open season to watch next year.


Your Royals will be right their too!
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Nostalgic Nerd



Joined: 12 Mar 2004
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Location: St. Paul, MN

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would still put the undefeated SSP and EP teams ahead of each of the three Tonka teams, but obviously the three-peat is even more unique.
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topshelfblue



Joined: 03 Nov 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Sinbin nailed it on Tonka's depth a few posts ago. A few things to consider: A top tier D1 goalie returning; 2 D1 D players returning; only 3 of the 14UA state champion players from 2012 were on the team this year with secondary and bench roles and they will rise up; I think about 4 or 5 of the 14UA state champion players from 2012 were on JV and they are no slouches, and a few of the 14UA state champion players from 2012 that were still 14UA this year will compete to move up. (A little fun fact going forward is that every kid that will be on Varsity next year and I think all but about 2 or 3 on JV will have won a state championship in hockey while at Minnetonka in the last two years either at high school or U14A.) The Tonka coach is no dummy. He'll (IMHO) build on a broader group of girls and there will be three very good lines (no single FWD stars) going at teams with no let up with each change. It may take half of season to figure out line chemistry, so early games will not be a real indicator. Should be fun to watch that section again next year as it progresses. A four-peat for Tonka, while a long stretch, is not out of the question.
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luckyEPDad



Joined: 25 Nov 2009
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

royals dad wrote:
Hats off to them, the players and staff have made a legacy that can never be taken away. Almost every other great team has had a side note about move ins or recruiting, and the core of this team (and the last few teams) came up together through girls youth hockey. That is a pretty cool thing. I wouldn't count out a team that has Baldwin and Crow at D with Hannah in the net. Not sure any team will come into next season as strong as Tonka and BSM did this year. Should be a fun one and wide open season to watch next year.


A bunch of girls coming up through a youth program that has a policy of equal playing time and not focusing on win/loss records.
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royals dad



Joined: 30 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:
I would still put the undefeated SSP and EP teams ahead of each of the three Tonka teams, but obviously the three-peat is even more unique.


The amazing thing about this group is that with exception of Friend, the impact players were all from Tonka youth girls hockey. The teams mentioned above had impact players that came from multiple youth boys and girls associations. I am not saying they cheated or recruited but we lived up the street from one of the SSP big three and we were on the east side. The EP teams were great but they would not have competed at that level without kids who moved in for HS.

We are in an era where many parents think you have to play boys hockey or that you have to move around to find something better. That's what is great about this, there are tons of teams out there that this is true about but none that have done this.

Wow, I am officially done saying nice things about Tonka. At least their boys got knocked out (hat trick from an HYHA kid no less).
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sinbin



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
Posts: 898

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, kind words about Tonka from both Hopkins and EP? Wayzata maybe next, but not holding my breath for Edina. If we get the final two teams, that would be one of the seven apocalyptic signs. Just kidding, everyone. All of these Lake conference teams have beaten Tonka in the regular season the past several years, and I believe that all of them are relatively young, so the Lake is wide open in 2013-14. You could see one 5-3 team, three 4-4 teams, and one 3-5 team. As the teams split off for Sections, that helps to allow perhaps two teams from the Lake to advance to State yet again. I would agree with topshelf that there will be a lot of experimentation with lines next season, but more than usual. There always has been with Tonka, with the stronger players easily pegged and then the role/supporting players filling in the blanks as lines begin to gel. The timing has seemingly been such that the team peaks in February. As long as HE is in net, Tonka has a chance every game, even if there might be a number of boring 1-0 or 2-1 games. Tonka will take those, I'm sure.
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BeenAround



Joined: 18 Mar 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:55 pm    Post subject: Eden Prairie 2006-08 Reply with quote

EP had 6-7 girls from other communties on the last championship team during this time period.
They were more like a private school back then.
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Hockeydaddy



Joined: 12 Feb 2008
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huge congrats to Tonka, who are indeed probably the best Girls HS team in history.

But before we shuffle BSM off to never-never land and give Tonka the free trip to state next year, let's remember that the margins of victory this year were fine, and that BSM might return the best two lines in the state next year. I don't see a team any deeper than BSM will be up front - they should be better next year than they were this year, as they should add two big scorers from their JV. Plus one of the better goalies in the state will be a senior. Now, they might take a step back on defense, but when you score that many goals, you can't just write them off. D6 will be tighter next year with improvement in Hopkins and Buffalo, but let's not write off BSM, whose only sin has been to be in the same section as Minnetonka.
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36Guy



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hockeydaddy wrote:
Huge congrats to Tonka, who are indeed probably the best Girls HS team in history.

But before we shuffle BSM off to never-never land and give Tonka the free trip to state next year, let's remember that the margins of victory this year were fine, and that BSM might return the best two lines in the state next year. I don't see a team any deeper than BSM will be up front - they should be better next year than they were this year, as they should add two big scorers from their JV. Plus one of the better goalies in the state will be a senior. Now, they might take a step back on defense, but when you score that many goals, you can't just write them off. D6 will be tighter next year with improvement in Hopkins and Buffalo, but let's not write off BSM, whose only sin has been to be in the same section as Minnetonka.


I agree that BSM is going to be deadly...probably the best 2 lines in the state, not sure they will need their D much.

However, Sections are up for realignment this year and my bet is that they split Tonka and BSM.
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notahockeyguy



Joined: 09 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty sure they don't split BSM and Mtka next year. Also BSM has to learn how to win. They haven't been to the tournament since the last coachings staff class went thru.
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sinbin



Joined: 30 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nostalgic Nerd wrote:
I would still put the undefeated SSP and EP teams ahead of each of the three Tonka teams, but obviously the three-peat is even more unique.


The first of the 3 championship seasons, Tonka lost only to Shattuck's. Don't know if EP or SSP ever stuck their necks out that far during their undefeated seasons, but just some food for thought.
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36Guy



Joined: 21 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notahockeyguy wrote:
Pretty sure they don't split BSM and Mtka next year. Also BSM has to learn how to win. They haven't been to the tournament since the last coachings staff class went thru.


I'll take that bet...we're on! One large fries at McDonalds! Very Happy
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MNHockeyFan



Joined: 08 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

36Guy wrote:
notahockeyguy wrote:
Pretty sure they don't split BSM and Mtka next year. Also BSM has to learn how to win. They haven't been to the tournament since the last coachings staff class went thru.


I'll take that bet...we're on! One large fries at McDonalds! Very Happy


I'll take that bet and "McDouble" it! Wink
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Nimrod



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

notahockeyguy wrote:
Pretty sure they don't split BSM and Mtka next year. Also BSM has to learn how to win. They haven't been to the tournament since the last coachings staff class went thru.


During the regular season BSM scored 158 goals and 35 were scored by Seniors. I think next year they will manage to win a couple games with their returning group.
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