Another NAHL MN Team Added

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clutterbuck22
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Another NAHL MN Team Added

Post by clutterbuck22 » Fri May 10, 2013 6:33 pm

The Minnesota Wilderness out of Cloquet will leave the SIJHL and head to the NAHL beginning next season.

394 West
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Re: Another NAHL MN Team Added

Post by 394 West » Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm

clutterbuck22 wrote:The Minnesota Wilderness out of Cloquet will leave the SIJHL and head to the NAHL beginning next season.
How do they build the team. New draft or open try outs

clutterbuck22
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Re: Another NAHL MN Team Added

Post by clutterbuck22 » Sat May 11, 2013 12:04 am

394 West wrote:
clutterbuck22 wrote:The Minnesota Wilderness out of Cloquet will leave the SIJHL and head to the NAHL beginning next season.
How do they build the team. New draft or open try outs
Both. They have a draft in June and tryout camps after in June and July.

huville
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Post by huville » Sat May 11, 2013 12:58 am

They have tenders to sign players before the draft and try-outs too. I'd also venture to guess they have some players who can probably make the NAHL on their current squad.

019
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Post by 019 » Sat May 11, 2013 8:07 am

They must be pretty good, as they are in the RBC Cup this week.

D3Referee
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Post by D3Referee » Sat May 11, 2013 2:24 pm

019 wrote:They must be pretty good, as they are in the RBC Cup this week.
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
"See ya in another life brother"

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Sat May 11, 2013 2:30 pm

D3Referee wrote:
019 wrote:They must be pretty good, as they are in the RBC Cup this week.
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
Well, hockey-wise, I think Canadian Jr. A, which this team is, is more on the NAHL level vs. USHL, so it probably won't be a "drop down" per se.

D3Referee
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Post by D3Referee » Sat May 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Mailman wrote:
D3Referee wrote:
019 wrote:They must be pretty good, as they are in the RBC Cup this week.
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
Well, hockey-wise, I think Canadian Jr. A, which this team is, is more on the NAHL level vs. USHL, so it probably won't be a "drop down" per se.
It's a drop down in designation. The Wilderness is actually built more like a NAHL team than a Candian Junior A team anyways. The youngest player on the Wilderness team is a 1994 birth year, where most Candian Junior A teams have a handful of very skilled 16 and 17 year olds, (96 & 95 this season), more similiar to the USHL.

So in that sense, yes, the Wilderness might be a better fit for the NAHL.

Plus, judging from their gaudy record, the SIJHL isn't up to Canadian Junior A standards anyways (probably why they haven't had any presence at the RBC Cup in the 13 year history of the league until now). They might well get better competition by dropping down in class and getting to play in the NAHL, which has some very decent teams at the top end.
"See ya in another life brother"

WCHBlog
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Post by WCHBlog » Sat May 11, 2013 4:08 pm

D3Referee wrote:
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
I'm not sure anyone would agree with you that it's "dropping down". The NAHL has over 50 kids committed to D-1 colleges, while the SIJHL has zero. The SIJHL also had two teams fold during the year this year because they couldn't get enough players to field a team, and a good number of kids on the Wilderness tried to play in the NAHL first before ending in the SIJHL.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Sat May 11, 2013 4:57 pm

D3Referee wrote:
Mailman wrote:
D3Referee wrote:
019 wrote:They must be pretty good, as they are in the RBC Cup this week.
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
Well, hockey-wise, I think Canadian Jr. A, which this team is, is more on the NAHL level vs. USHL, so it probably won't be a "drop down" per se.
It's a drop down in designation. The Wilderness is actually built more like a NAHL team than a Candian Junior A team anyways. The youngest player on the Wilderness team is a 1994 birth year, where most Candian Junior A teams have a handful of very skilled 16 and 17 year olds, (96 & 95 this season), more similiar to the USHL.

So in that sense, yes, the Wilderness might be a better fit for the NAHL.

Plus, judging from their gaudy record, the SIJHL isn't up to Canadian Junior A standards anyways (probably why they haven't had any presence at the RBC Cup in the 13 year history of the league until now). They might well get better competition by dropping down in class and getting to play in the NAHL, which has some very decent teams at the top end.
Drop down in what designation ? Maybe I'm missing something.

Way I've seen it, levels top to bottoms would go, based on hockey play:

USHL
NAHL/Candian Junior A equals more or less.
Tier 3

One thing about the CMJ A League, is that there is lot of differences between the leagues/teams.
Some leagues are good, some not, same with teams.

I.e, the Canadian teams I'm familiar with have very few 16-17 year olds, mostly older players.

For that matter, most USHL teams I know have older players.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Sat May 11, 2013 4:58 pm

WCHBlog wrote:
D3Referee wrote:
Yes, I think they are first SIJHL team to reach the RBC Cup Tournament. Not sure why they would drop down a Tier to the NAHL. Maybe to save the billet expenses or maybe just tired of the constant travel up North, although that won't get better in the NA
I'm not sure anyone would agree with you that it's "dropping down". The NAHL has over 50 kids committed to D-1 colleges, while the SIJHL has zero. The SIJHL also had two teams fold during the year this year because they couldn't get enough players to field a team, and a good number of kids on the Wilderness tried to play in the NAHL first before ending in the SIJHL.
Yeah, that's how I've seen it too.

D3Referee
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Post by D3Referee » Sun May 12, 2013 5:02 pm

Mailman wrote:

Way I've seen it, levels top to bottoms would go, based on hockey play:

USHL
NAHL/Candian Junior A equals more or less.
Tier 3

One thing about the CMJ A League, is that there is lot of differences between the leagues/teams.
Some leagues are good, some not, same with teams.

I.e, the Canadian teams I'm familiar with have very few 16-17 year olds, mostly older players.

For that matter, most USHL teams I know have older players.
Of course, we're all entitled to our opinion. I am just going by the official designation;

- USA Tier I / Canadian Jr A (Teams cover all costs)
- USA Tier II / Canadian Junior B (Teams cover all costs except billet)
- USA Tier III / Canadian Junior C (Pay to Play)

I didn't invent the designation. It is what it is. Right now the Wilderness are in the top tier. If they pull out and go to the NAHL , they move down a tier. Pretty black and white.

Is the SIJHL the armpit of Junior A? Probably. That's why they havent had a previous representative at the RBC Cup and thats why the Wilderness were able to rack up a 52-3 record, or whatever it was.

Are there NAHL teams that will give them a better fight? Of course. There are NAHL teams that would smoke USHL teams. I'd take Wenatchee or Topeka over Des Moines 7 days a week. That doesn't have anything to do with the Tier they play at.

If you look at the rosters at the RBC Cup you will notice 96 and 95 kids on the other teams, about a handful or less, same as most USHL teams. The Wilderness doesn't roster any. Neither do most NAHL teams. Since the Wilderness is made up of guys who are done high school, the NAHL is probably a better fit for them.
"See ya in another life brother"

Cootslayer
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Hypothetical

Post by Cootslayer » Wed May 15, 2013 3:47 pm

Just an educated guess here on the change.

Someone just bought into the team that has kids that play hockey.

Witchhunt against HS coach failed and now there is limited junior interest in kids who may or may not be connected to the "hunter".

Need to "buy" a place to play next year?

Sometimes the answer to your question is right out in the open.

Mailman
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Post by Mailman » Thu May 16, 2013 6:54 am

D3Referee wrote:
Mailman wrote:

Way I've seen it, levels top to bottoms would go, based on hockey play:

USHL
NAHL/Candian Junior A equals more or less.
Tier 3

One thing about the CMJ A League, is that there is lot of differences between the leagues/teams.
Some leagues are good, some not, same with teams.

I.e, the Canadian teams I'm familiar with have very few 16-17 year olds, mostly older players.

For that matter, most USHL teams I know have older players.
Of course, we're all entitled to our opinion. I am just going by the official designation;

- USA Tier I / Canadian Jr A (Teams cover all costs)
- USA Tier II / Canadian Junior B (Teams cover all costs except billet)
- USA Tier III / Canadian Junior C (Pay to Play)

I didn't invent the designation. It is what it is. Right now the Wilderness are in the top tier. If they pull out and go to the NAHL , they move down a tier. Pretty black and white.

Is the SIJHL the armpit of Junior A? Probably. That's why they havent had a previous representative at the RBC Cup and thats why the Wilderness were able to rack up a 52-3 record, or whatever it was.

Are there NAHL teams that will give them a better fight? Of course. There are NAHL teams that would smoke USHL teams. I'd take Wenatchee or Topeka over Des Moines 7 days a week. That doesn't have anything to do with the Tier they play at.

If you look at the rosters at the RBC Cup you will notice 96 and 95 kids on the other teams, about a handful or less, same as most USHL teams. The Wilderness doesn't roster any. Neither do most NAHL teams. Since the Wilderness is made up of guys who are done high school, the NAHL is probably a better fit for them.
Just have to agree to disagree, no big deal. Canadian Jr. A teams I've seen, *hockey-wise*, a move to the NAHL would be, at most, a lateral step, and for some, a step up, regardless of their designation on paper.

Rocketwrister
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Re: Hypothetical

Post by Rocketwrister » Thu May 16, 2013 5:10 pm

Cootslayer wrote:Just an educated guess here on the change.

Someone just bought into the team that has kids that play hockey.

Witchhunt against HS coach failed and now there is limited junior interest in kids who may or may not be connected to the "hunter".

Need to "buy" a place to play next year?

Sometimes the answer to your question is right out in the open.
This! :lol: :lol: :lol:

kniven
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Location: Duluth area

Corey Millen

Post by kniven » Sun May 19, 2013 1:14 pm


kniven
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Location: Duluth area

Re: Hypothetical

Post by kniven » Sun May 19, 2013 1:16 pm

Rocketwrister wrote:
Cootslayer wrote:Just an educated guess here on the change.

Someone just bought into the team that has kids that play hockey.

Witchhunt against HS coach failed and now there is limited junior interest in kids who may or may not be connected to the "hunter".

Need to "buy" a place to play next year?

Sometimes the answer to your question is right out in the open.
This! :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://cecboyshockey.com/teams/default. ... wsID=28379

fourthlinegrinder
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96 commitments not 50

Post by fourthlinegrinder » Tue May 21, 2013 10:17 am

The NAHL has issued 96 Commitments this season and will be well over 100 by the end of the summer. The Wilderness have never had a D-1 product, it is really funny that people think the SIJHL is legit. Its a talented Tier 3 league that sends kids to d-3 schools to think that they could compete with an Austin club that was 31 games above .500 is a joke. A MOCKERY

Jackler
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Post by Jackler » Tue May 21, 2013 2:19 pm

The NAHL has issued 96 Commitments this season and will be well over 100 by the end of the summer. The Wilderness have never had a D-1 product, it is really funny that people think the SIJHL is legit. Its a talented Tier 3 league that sends kids to d-3 schools to think that they could compete with an Austin club that was 31 games above .500 is a joke. A MOCKERY
Problem #1 with your post, The Wilderness will have at least one D1 player, their captain has committed to a D1 school. In the future there will be others from this years team, maybe after a year or two of playing somewhere else (but then of course it will be that league that made that happen). This Wilderness team is very good, as showed by there performance at the RBC.

Problem #2 with your post, they will have a better team as the prepare to play in a different league!!! You act as though they will take this exact same roster to the NAHL. They will recruit, tender, and draft players the same way that the other NAHL teams do. My guess is the ownership and coaching staff do not believe they would be competitive with Austin with their current roster (although the current roster would be competitive with Minot, Coulee Region, and Odessa).

The braintrust for the Wilderness did exactly what they needed to do, they built a top team for the league they were competing in, my guess is they will do it again (eventually).

4thlineproblems
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Post by 4thlineproblems » Tue May 21, 2013 4:33 pm

The SIJHL is a league basically similar to the NA3HL or MNJHL in the fact that they are all players that tried out for or started the season with NAHL teams but ended up getting cut so they went and played in one of those leagues. I am sure the 90% of the players did not want to play for the wilderness at the beginning of last summer but that's where they ended up. They are all decent players but they all ended up on the Wilderness because they were cut from a team so im sure they could compete with some of the weaker NA teams (coulee, fresno, ect.) but they would have a tough time even making the playoffs in that league.

what is the attendance the wilderness get in Duluth? I know that Kalimazoo in the NA is not going to be in the league anymore because of poor attendance (250 a game). I would imagine that the wilderness have similar numbers.

fourthlinegrinder
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OMG

Post by fourthlinegrinder » Wed May 22, 2013 10:30 am

Where is he commited ???

The Wilderness have been in the league for over 5 years. They played a split schedule in the MNJHL when they where the Wisconsin Mustangs the last time they had a D-1 product it was Kenn Rieter who won a Natty championship for Duluth. Also the Wilderness has 12 days to Tender 15 kids. I realyl dont think ppl realize how hard it is to Tender kids even in the NAHL. The Wilderness has had some good teams but every single player in the roster has been cut and tossed to the curb. You think kids want to play i the SIJHL??? Look what happened to the Duluth team they couldent get 100 fans when it was free to watch them play.

Rocketwrister
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Post by Rocketwrister » Wed May 22, 2013 11:18 am

Attendance is poor and will continue to be. It's won't last.

Jackler
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:59 am

Post by Jackler » Wed May 22, 2013 12:10 pm

The Wilderness has had some good teams but every single player in the roster has been cut and tossed to the curb. You think kids want to play i the SIJHL???
Again, I am not saying this roster would compete, but they will not go into the 2013-14 season with this roster. And NO, kids do probably not want to play in the SIJHL, they all want to play at the highest level they can. But, if you "end up" not making the USHL/NAHL/BCHL, the Wilderness program in the SIJHL are one that players gravitate towards. That is why they have so many players that have NAHL experience (however brief it may have been).

There are at least four players on this roster that would play in the NAHL this fall whether the Wilderness made the move or not. I think there are plenty of kids that are "tossed to the curb" that work hard, gain confidence, and grow that come back the next season different players.
Also the Wilderness has 12 days to Tender 15 kids. I reallyl dont think ppl realize how hard it is to Tender kids even in the NAHL.
They have been "maybe in, maybe out" for the past six weeks, they are going to be fine with their tenders. And why is it so hard to tender players?

Attendance is poor and will continue to be. It's won't last.
This I do agree with, the attendance has been poor in Cloquet, and it will be tough to survive unless that dramatically improves. You can tell me that this team may fail because of revenue numbers, but I do not agree with the fact they will not compete, and NO, I am not saying they will get to the Robertson Cup next season, but they will compete with each team in their division.

northwoods oldtimer
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Post by northwoods oldtimer » Wed May 22, 2013 6:10 pm

Wilderness are a good organization and will compete well in the NAHL. They know what they are doing when landing players. As for attendance that area is already hockey saturated and you have to depend on the same small pool of hockey fans to get out to see Bulldogs, Saints, UWS and all the high schools plus Juniors.

Wilderness will figure out a great location to move the team to, it is just a matter of time for that.

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