MN Made Squirt League

[thefatcat]

I had heard a rumor that a kid from ER was booted from the Squirt league for starting a fight in the hand shake line after a game? Does anyone out there know any addt'l info? I've asked around MM but everyone seems pretty tight lipped about it.

[savagegopher]

Should be, if true,

[savagegopher]

Should be, if true,

[barry_mcconnell]

I heard from a reliable source that earlier this year one of the Squirt kids slashed a player on the other team. With his stick!! It's time to stop the madness over at MM.

[old goalie85]

I heard from a reliable source that MM Pee-Wee has a new goalie coach. They call him "The Chi".

[thefatcat]

Oh c'mon...you guys are a bunch of comedians.

I did find out at last night's tourney game that the kid was booted for starting a fist fight in a handshake line. The kid has a twin brother who played as well. Sounds like pops pulled the 2nd kid since his first was booted.

That's about $4600 down the drain...yikes. Have fun back at association.

[puckpuck]

I have information on this situation. I'm new to this forum, but found this and was shocked as I was at the game where this happened. There have been a lot of incorrect rumors around Made...

[DrGaf]

/yawn

[Froggy Richards]

I have information on this situation. I'm new to this forum, but found this and was shocked as I was at the game where this happened. There have been a lot of incorrect rumors around Made...

Too bad nobody cares. You could have brought a lot to the table here.

[thefatcat]

I have information on this situation. I'm new to this forum, but found this and was shocked as I was at the game where this happened. There have been a lot of incorrect rumors around Made...

By all means, please feel free to inform the uniformed....

[puckpuck]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

[Froggy Richards]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

I apologize Puck, I wasn't trying to imply that nobody cared what you had to say. I was trying to say that I don't think very many really care about MM. We all know what it is so it doesn't surprise people to hear things like this. I have no problem with Bernie, I think he's been pretty up front about what he's trying to do there. And if people are willing to spend that kind of money then you can't fault him. The problem is that Mites and Squirts are too young for this type of culture, so the ensuing results shouldn't really shock anyone. Wait until they hit puberty. If you think you have something then go ahead and spend the money. But this type of atmosphere at Mites and Squirts is a complete waste. Give them a boatload of open hockey at the outdoor rink for free instead. Watch them achieve better results and foster a love for the game that they will never get at MM.

[puckpuck]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

I apologize Puck, I wasn't trying to imply that nobody cared what you had to say. I was trying to say that I don't think very many really care about MM. We all know what it is so it doesn't surprise people to hear things like this. I have no problem with Bernie, I think he's been pretty up front about what he's trying to do there. And if people are willing to spend that kind of money then you can't fault him. The problem is that Mites and Squirts are too young for this type of culture, so the ensuing results shouldn't really shock anyone. Wait until they hit puberty. If you think you have something then go ahead and spend the money. But this type of atmosphere at Mites and Squirts is a complete waste. Give them a boatload of open hockey at the outdoor rink for free instead. Watch them achieve better results and foster a love for the game that they will never get at MM.

Thanks Froggy. Appreciate the response. You have no idea how much I struggle with Made. I didn't play hockey...therefore, I don't know much!. But I was a collegiate athlete and I know poor sportsmanship when I see it. With that said, my struggle is exactly what you outlined in your response. Unfortunately, we aren't made of money and in my experience, everyone at Made is. Everyone! Therefore the $5500 I'm spending is a ton for a young kid. However, our association is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much a joke. I think my son could skate only backwards in every game and score 10 goals. And I'm not saying my son is great. I'm saying the association is that bad. I would love to use the pick up b-ball game strategy and have him develop that way, but we are always the only two at the park. The point is, I'm putting added pressure on him because of the money and the atmosphere at Made, but I truly feel he cannot develop on his own. He can shoot in the garage in the summer and stick handle all year, but if he's not on ice, he's not on ice. And in the end, the kid might not even end up being a hockey player! The place drives me insane and I am shocked by the things I have seen at Made. Absolutely shocked.

[InThePipes]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

So one of the "brothers" was booted from MM and therefore neither of them are currently playing down there, is that correct?

[puckpuck]

That is correct InThePipes. They missed a lot of games anyway because of their association. They were not booted in result of the fight. At least not initially because the other kid was not even disciplined. His parents were called, but he was not disciplined. They can't boot one kid involved and not even discipline the other. The parents of the two brothers were upset because they felt that during the game the kid put a hit on one of the brothers with an "intent to injure". That same kid was the one who was involved in the fight after the handshake.

[gowild5555]

It's funny how ADULTS smash different hockey programs but those same ADULTS in the Spring/Summer come begging for their kids to play on their AAA teams. My kids don't skate at MADE, but I have heard positive/neg. things. We live to far away to play at MADE. I have been to ALOT of youth association games and they are rough and dirty at mainly the A or B levels...........due to TOP competition. I don't believe in fighting at any level as its not worth it. That's why they have refs to take care of those situations. So, come on parents quit living in the eyes of your kids and let them play hockey. PEACE TO ALL.

[SCBlueLiner]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

I apologize Puck, I wasn't trying to imply that nobody cared what you had to say. I was trying to say that I don't think very many really care about MM. We all know what it is so it doesn't surprise people to hear things like this. I have no problem with Bernie, I think he's been pretty up front about what he's trying to do there. And if people are willing to spend that kind of money then you can't fault him. The problem is that Mites and Squirts are too young for this type of culture, so the ensuing results shouldn't really shock anyone. Wait until they hit puberty. If you think you have something then go ahead and spend the money. But this type of atmosphere at Mites and Squirts is a complete waste. Give them a boatload of open hockey at the outdoor rink for free instead. Watch them achieve better results and foster a love for the game that they will never get at MM.

Thanks Froggy. Appreciate the response. You have no idea how much I struggle with Made. I didn't play hockey...therefore, I don't know much!. But I was a collegiate athlete and I know poor sportsmanship when I see it. With that said, my struggle is exactly what you outlined in your response. Unfortunately, we aren't made of money and in my experience, everyone at Made is. Everyone! Therefore the $5500 I'm spending is a ton for a young kid. However, our association is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much a joke. I think my son could skate only backwards in every game and score 10 goals. And I'm not saying my son is great. I'm saying the association is that bad. I would love to use the pick up b-ball game strategy and have him develop that way, but we are always the only two at the park. The point is, I'm putting added pressure on him because of the money and the atmosphere at Made, but I truly feel he cannot develop on his own. He can shoot in the garage in the summer and stick handle all year, but if he's not on ice, he's not on ice. And in the end, the kid might not even end up being a hockey player! The place drives me insane and I am shocked by the things I have seen at Made. Absolutely shocked.

I don't know where you live but it is obviously close enough to be within driving distance of MM. If it were me I would seriously consider selling my house and moving to another area with a decent association. I know, moving for hockey. Crazy! Not quite. It's a financial, lifestyle, and quality of life decision. That's alot of money to spend at a place where it doesn't appear you agree with some of the values on display. What are you going to do when your kid gets older and there is no more Made program for him? Go back to your association which you feel is subpar? New house, new town, new school, new friends, new association (with a rep you've looked into and approve of), new start, and spend less money in the end. Might as well get started on the process now so your boy can't build some friendships from a young age.

Maybe not an option for whatever reason but if it is possible it is something to look into. This is America. We do have choices.

[puckpuck]

I apologize Puck, I wasn't trying to imply that nobody cared what you had to say. I was trying to say that I don't think very many really care about MM. We all know what it is so it doesn't surprise people to hear things like this. I have no problem with Bernie, I think he's been pretty up front about what he's trying to do there. And if people are willing to spend that kind of money then you can't fault him. The problem is that Mites and Squirts are too young for this type of culture, so the ensuing results shouldn't really shock anyone. Wait until they hit puberty. If you think you have something then go ahead and spend the money. But this type of atmosphere at Mites and Squirts is a complete waste. Give them a boatload of open hockey at the outdoor rink for free instead. Watch them achieve better results and foster a love for the game that they will never get at MM.

Thanks Froggy. Appreciate the response. You have no idea how much I struggle with Made. I didn't play hockey...therefore, I don't know much!. But I was a collegiate athlete and I know poor sportsmanship when I see it. With that said, my struggle is exactly what you outlined in your response. Unfortunately, we aren't made of money and in my experience, everyone at Made is. Everyone! Therefore the $5500 I'm spending is a ton for a young kid. However, our association is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much a joke. I think my son could skate only backwards in every game and score 10 goals. And I'm not saying my son is great. I'm saying the association is that bad. I would love to use the pick up b-ball game strategy and have him develop that way, but we are always the only two at the park. The point is, I'm putting added pressure on him because of the money and the atmosphere at Made, but I truly feel he cannot develop on his own. He can shoot in the garage in the summer and stick handle all year, but if he's not on ice, he's not on ice. And in the end, the kid might not even end up being a hockey player! The place drives me insane and I am shocked by the things I have seen at Made. Absolutely shocked.

I don't know where you live but it is obviously close enough to be within driving distance of MM. If it were me I would seriously consider selling my house and moving to another area with a decent association. I know, moving for hockey. Crazy! Not quite. It's a financial, lifestyle, and quality of life decision. That's alot of money to spend at a place where it doesn't appear you agree with some of the values on display. What are you going to do when your kid gets older and there is no more Made program for him? Go back to your association which you feel is subpar? New house, new town, new school, new friends, new association (with a rep you've looked into and approve of), new start, and spend less money in the end. Might as well get started on the process now so your boy can't build some friendships from a young age.

Maybe not an option for whatever reason but if it is possible it is something to look into. This is America. We do have choices.

SCBlueLiner - Funny, that is exactly what we are going to do. As soon as we are in a good position to sell (another year in our market). I know, move for hockey...insane, but like you said, it can make sense and I want to move anyway. So that is the plan. I just want to give my son the tools to be successful and then it's up to him what he chooses to do with them. In my opinion, it's difficult to navigate this youth hockey world when you don't have a hockey background. At Made it's a constant barrage of opinions. Some even say you will know by age 9 if your son/daughter will ever be any good. So I hear that and think, "WHAT"? Again, I just want to provide him with some tools and then it's up to his desire, work ethic and intangibles. I'm just struggling with what tools to provide him with! Most importantly, I love him no matter what.

[Froggy Richards]

thefatcat -

It appears two others on the forum, whom I did not see participating in the original earlier discussion, was speaking for everyone when they said no one cared about what I had to say. So I kept my mouth shut. I just was hoping to chat with some folks who were level-headed and could share some thoughts about MM. That's all. Because you certainly can't share thoughts about Made with the parents you run into over there. I am sure everyone on here is much more seasoned with Made than me as I have only been there for a little over a year. However, I have seen plenty and I also know many of the coaches. I saw the fight in question with the two brothers who everyone talks about as being the best Squirts in the state (only one bro in the fight). The other participant in the fight is considered by many as the dirtiest kid in Squirts at Made. And when I say "many", I mean many. I also saw the ensuing fight (verbal) between the kids mothers' after the game. In my experience at Made, all Bernie is concerned with, in my opinion, is creating the next NHL'er. Sportsmanship is completely out the door. He could not care less. Fights, full on checking in Squirts with no repercussion, parents fighting in the stands, fights in practice...I've seen it all. I realize it's hockey, but 9 years old is a little early to "allow" fighting. But again, that is just my opinion.

I apologize Puck, I wasn't trying to imply that nobody cared what you had to say. I was trying to say that I don't think very many really care about MM. We all know what it is so it doesn't surprise people to hear things like this. I have no problem with Bernie, I think he's been pretty up front about what he's trying to do there. And if people are willing to spend that kind of money then you can't fault him. The problem is that Mites and Squirts are too young for this type of culture, so the ensuing results shouldn't really shock anyone. Wait until they hit puberty. If you think you have something then go ahead and spend the money. But this type of atmosphere at Mites and Squirts is a complete waste. Give them a boatload of open hockey at the outdoor rink for free instead. Watch them achieve better results and foster a love for the game that they will never get at MM.

Thanks Froggy. Appreciate the response. You have no idea how much I struggle with Made. I didn't play hockey...therefore, I don't know much!. But I was a collegiate athlete and I know poor sportsmanship when I see it. With that said, my struggle is exactly what you outlined in your response. Unfortunately, we aren't made of money and in my experience, everyone at Made is. Everyone! Therefore the $5500 I'm spending is a ton for a young kid. However, our association is really bad. I mean, it's pretty much a joke. I think my son could skate only backwards in every game and score 10 goals. And I'm not saying my son is great. I'm saying the association is that bad. I would love to use the pick up b-ball game strategy and have him develop that way, but we are always the only two at the park. The point is, I'm putting added pressure on him because of the money and the atmosphere at Made, but I truly feel he cannot develop on his own. He can shoot in the garage in the summer and stick handle all year, but if he's not on ice, he's not on ice. And in the end, the kid might not even end up being a hockey player! The place drives me insane and I am shocked by the things I have seen at Made. Absolutely shocked.

You're definitely in a tough spot. It's sad to think your best option for a Squirt is to spend $5500 at a Hockey Factory. If you're close enough to drive to Made I'm assuming you have a lot of nearby Assocations. Have you considered waivering your son out to one of them? All it takes is for your Assoc. President to sign off on it. Since you don't play there anyway they wouldn't be losing anything.

I get what you're saying about being the only ones at the outdoor rink. You definitely need other kids there. My son is a Mite and if he has 4-5 kids to skate with he will play Hongo for 4-5 hours and never come off the ice. If it's only him and I he will skate for an hour and be bored. Maybe try finding a different rink where there are more kids playing.

[massalsa]

Interesting thread for sure.

Full disclosure: I have a kid who plays at MM and with a Machine summer team (last summer practice only, this summer full).

My kid plays in the Super Squirt Choice league (checking, mostly 02 & 03's with a few young 01's) and played Choice (no checking but Squirt aged) last year. I have yet to see anything in a game or a practice that I thought was questionable. They have always erred on the conservative end of things…especially with checking. No head hunting, intentional dirty play, or have heard of that being encouraged by any parents or coaches. I also have not seen anything as spirited as association hockey can get in the stands with parents in a hyper aggressive, competitive Squirt or Peewee game (either regular season or a tournament).

We are at MM and willing to pay a little more (if one was to choose one or the other) to play there for a couple of reasons:

1. The amount of time each practice that is spent on individual skills (skating and stick handling) is much more than we get at Association hockey (my kid was MM only last year and this year is both Assoc & MM). It costs more than association yes but there is more time on the ice and building the basic skills are key in our mind to giving a kid the tools to succeed should they choose to continue to play hockey or soccer or whatever sport. This has been especially important with the introduction of checking this year. The slow implementation along with practice sessions exclusively for checking instruction were informative for the kid and for us as parents to talk about safety as a checker and a checkee. Name the sport and there is skills based academies or clinics that cost $$$ that make a difference. Soccer has Coerver, Footholde, etc. Basketball has AAU programs, whatever Chris Carr's place in hopkins is called, etc. Baseball has Players Only, MN Baseball Academy, etc.

2. We have found the curriculum and the coaching to be just as good or better than the average association coaches and assistants in our association.

3. We like that all 4 tournaments are at MM instead of places that we are overnight for 2 nights. A weekend tourney in Duluth or Brainerd or TRF is roughly $250 for hotel, $75-$100 for gas, plus other expenses. 2-3 tourneys out of town = $600-$1000. It is great for the kids but it aint cheap!

Competition is good. In life, hockey, and business. Association is not the only game in town and MM is a great option for many parents/kids. There will always be things that one can complain about at MM and very much so at the association model and one's home association.

Freedom. More please!

[massalsa]

Froggy & PuckPuck,

It is not $5500 to play squirt or Peewee at MM. If my memory is correct it is closer to $2500. Still a lot but with no out of town tourneys and looking at fees to play in Metro associations it is not THAT far out of line with the all in costs.

[puckpuck]

Froggy & PuckPuck,

It is not $5500 to play squirt or Peewee at MM. If my memory is correct it is closer to $2500. Still a lot but with no out of town tourneys and looking at fees to play in Metro associations it is not THAT far out of line with the all in costs.

I never said it was $5500 to play Squirts at Made. I said that is what we are paying for a year. The lowest you could pay is $4,345 for the year at the Squirt level at Made. Unless you have some "special" behind the door deal.

[massalsa]

Oh c'mon...you guys are a bunch of comedians.

I did find out at last night's tourney game that the kid was booted for starting a fist fight in a handshake line. The kid has a twin brother who played as well. Sounds like pops pulled the 2nd kid since his first was booted.

That's about $4600 down the drain...yikes. Have fun back at association.

This is from much earlier in the conversation but $4600 for 2 kids sounds about right. I think mid $2k is what we paid for 1 squirt aged kid last year. Don't recall exact price off the top of my head.

I don't think that it is some "special" behind the door deal but might be wrong. Froggy said something about spending $5500 for a squirt at a "hockey factory".

Did not mean to put words in your mouth puckpuck.

[puckpuck]

Oh c'mon...you guys are a bunch of comedians.

I did find out at last night's tourney game that the kid was booted for starting a fist fight in a handshake line. The kid has a twin brother who played as well. Sounds like pops pulled the 2nd kid since his first was booted.

That's about $4600 down the drain...yikes. Have fun back at association.

This is from much earlier in the conversation but $4600 for 2 kids sounds about right. I think mid $2k is what we paid for 1 squirt aged kid last year. Don't recall exact price off the top of my head.

I don't think that it is some "special" behind the door deal but might be wrong. Froggy said something about spending $5500 for a squirt at a "hockey factory".

Did not mean to put words in your mouth puckpuck.

No worries massalsa - I did make the comment about $5,500. The earlier comment on $4,600 was "almost" correct for two kids for the Squirt season, but not for the year. It's $2,395 or $2,495 for Squirts (one kid) - I forget which and then $1,950 for AAA. We are paying $5,500 for 12 months for our son. Which makes me vomit a bit, but I'm doing it...

[jg2112]

Interesting thread for sure.

Full disclosure: I have a kid who plays at MM and with a Machine summer team (last summer practice only, this summer full).

My kid plays in the Super Squirt Choice league (checking, mostly 02 & 03's with a few young 01's) and played Choice (no checking but Squirt aged) last year. I have yet to see anything in a game or a practice that I thought was questionable. They have always erred on the conservative end of things…especially with checking. No head hunting, intentional dirty play, or have heard of that being encouraged by any parents or coaches. I also have not seen anything as spirited as association hockey can get in the stands with parents in a hyper aggressive, competitive Squirt or Peewee game (either regular season or a tournament).

We are at MM and willing to pay a little more (if one was to choose one or the other) to play there for a couple of reasons:

1. The amount of time each practice that is spent on individual skills (skating and stick handling) is much more than we get at Association hockey (my kid was MM only last year and this year is both Assoc & MM). It costs more than association yes but there is more time on the ice and building the basic skills are key in our mind to giving a kid the tools to succeed should they choose to continue to play hockey or soccer or whatever sport. This has been especially important with the introduction of checking this year. The slow implementation along with practice sessions exclusively for checking instruction were informative for the kid and for us as parents to talk about safety as a checker and a checkee. Name the sport and there is skills based academies or clinics that cost $$$ that make a difference. Soccer has Coerver, Footholde, etc. Basketball has AAU programs, whatever Chris Carr's place in hopkins is called, etc. Baseball has Players Only, MN Baseball Academy, etc.

2. We have found the curriculum and the coaching to be just as good or better than the average association coaches and assistants in our association.

3. We like that all 4 tournaments are at MM instead of places that we are overnight for 2 nights. A weekend tourney in Duluth or Brainerd or TRF is roughly $250 for hotel, $75-$100 for gas, plus other expenses. 2-3 tourneys out of town = $600-$1000. It is great for the kids but it aint cheap!

Competition is good. In life, hockey, and business. Association is not the only game in town and MM is a great option for many parents/kids. There will always be things that one can complain about at MM and very much so at the association model and one's home association.

Freedom. More please!

Per hour of ice (including games and practices), Minnesota Made is cheaper this year than my daughter's association ice bill (that is not even counting the out-of-town trip's hotel, food, gas, as well as the dryland we had to buy ourselves).

My daughter is already on a Machine AAA team. The association bill is one of many reasons why she will also be trying out for Made's Squirt League next season.