Two issues regarding volunteers in youth hockey.

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:59 am

Two issues:

1. Are people having trouble completing USAH and MH volunteer requirements because of poor internet service and length of time to complete?

2. Are the increasing demands being put on the VOLUNTEER people that just want to help until they see the wall they have to climb to just get to the door?
Are we seeing this in coaches, officials, and other volunteers?

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:27 pm

Elliot

I will answer this as a prior coach and now official.

I coached for 16 years and have now transitioned into officiating. The length of time is a huge hurdle to climb but if you are doing it to give back to the game that you love it is something you are willing to do. It is long and can be boring but if you are willing to take one thing from it and learn something each time it is worth it.

My main reason of getting out of coaching as a non-parent coach was not so much the demands being put on a volunteer from the requirements that need to be met but the constant abuse from the parents and some of the players.

Just this past season I was abused by a certain group of parents before the season even started during our first few practices and during our first game which involved swearing at the coaching staff during the very first game of the season. The disrespect from the kids of the same parents is crazy.

I would say the lack of involvement and support of the coaches by the board for those same coaches is going to drive volunteer coaches away from the game.

I do not think the requirements are to much I think the harassment from the parents will drive away the volunteers.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:03 pm

Bleed Maroon and Gold wrote:Elliot

I will answer this as a prior coach and now official.

I coached for 16 years and have now transitioned into officiating. The length of time is a huge hurdle to climb but if you are doing it to give back to the game that you love it is something you are willing to do. It is long and can be boring but if you are willing to take one thing from it and learn something each time it is worth it.

My main reason of getting out of coaching as a non-parent coach was not so much the demands being put on a volunteer from the requirements that need to be met but the constant abuse from the parents and some of the players.

Just this past season I was abused by a certain group of parents before the season even started during our first few practices and during our first game which involved swearing at the coaching staff during the very first game of the season. The disrespect from the kids of the same parents is crazy.

I would say the lack of involvement and support of the coaches by the board for those same coaches is going to drive volunteer coaches away from the game.

I do not think the requirements are to much I think the harassment from the parents will drive away the volunteers.

I'll place my bet that the future Totino kid's dad was the ring leader..

Bleed Maroon and Gold · Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:02 pm

[quote="MrBoDangles"][quote="Bleed Maroon and Gold"]Elliot

I will answer this as a prior coach and now official.

I coached for 16 years and have now transitioned into officiating. The length of time is a huge hurdle to climb but if you are doing it to give back to the game that you love it is something you are willing to do. It is long and can be boring but if you are willing to take one thing from it and learn something each time it is worth it.

My main reason of getting out of coaching as a non-parent coach was not so much the demands being put on a volunteer from the requirements that need to be met but the constant abuse from the parents and some of the players.

Just this past season I was abused by a certain group of parents before the season even started during our first few practices and during our first game which involved swearing at the coaching staff during the very first game of the season. The disrespect from the kids of the same parents is crazy.

I would say the lack of involvement and support of the coaches by the board for those same coaches is going to drive volunteer coaches away from the game.

I do not think the requirements are to much I think the harassment from the parents will drive away the volunteers.[/quote]

I'll place my bet that the future Totino kid's dad was the ring leader..[/quote]

Actually he was not a problem at all. But if you want to keep guessing you can. But I know of 5 non parent coaches that coached single A bantams last season that did not return to coaching this season for the same reason I did not return this season and it is not from the requirements. It is from the abuse from parents.

SimplyPut · Post by **SimplyPut** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:08 am

I know of at least 3, prior assistant coaches, in our program that have not pursued their level 4 certification. They have been assistants for many years, with multiple kids, and now since they have to renew at a level 4 have decided not to continue. This is tough on the associations as they now have less applicants to fill higher level (Older) teams, and less quality assistants that were assets to the head coach as well as great team liaisons.

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:12 am

It's both IMO.

The ever increasing requirements are keeping new would-be volunteers away. It's just too much time and effort just to be able to chip in and help. All volunteers who are around these kids, from locker room monitors to off ice officials running the clock or the penalty box are supposed to have completed the Safesport course. Those volunteers are typically team parents who rotate on and off and share the duties. So now pretty much every parent in the association is required to take a Safesport class? That's a bit much.

On the coaching side it is the same thing. There are parents who just want to assist with practice. Maybe its pushing pucks around, or moving nets, or just another set of eyes out there to watch over some of the Mites and Mini Mites to make sure they aren't whacking each other with sticks behind coach's back. I understand the CEP training and why it is in place but as somebody who has to recruit coaches for the association the requirements make it difficult to get all the volunteers needed.

For those of us who are all in on this sport, no the requirements don't bother me. In fact, I wish some of the coaches I see would start paying attention and implementing some of the things they are being tought.

But we are the few and it takes the next generation of volunteers to come in and take our place when we are eventually gone. The increasing requirements are creating a barrier to entry for the hockey volunteer.

Scout716 · Post by **Scout716** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:16 am

One thing I have noticed; I do not see as many coaches that stay at the same level for vary long. Maybe its more parent coaches that are following their kids?
I reviewed the web sites of a couple associations near me, and most teams had a different coach at that level from last season. Maybe my random sample isn't the norm? Consistency does not seem to be the norm. Could this be a reflection on the requirements? the demand and time commitment? Parent / player abuse? I assume a combination of all 3.

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:16 am

SimplyPut wrote:I know of at least 3, prior assistant coaches, in our program that have not pursued their level 4 certification. They have been assistants for many years, with multiple kids, and now since they have to renew at a level 4 have decided not to continue. This is tough on the associations as they now have less applicants to fill higher level (Older) teams, and less quality assistants that were assets to the head coach as well as great team liaisons.

I might agree with this, but I took the Level 4 clinic two seasons ago and it was the best clinic I've ever attended. I'm thinking about voluntarily going again in a few years just for a refresher because it was that good. The other coaches I met and the speakers there made the experience very worthwhile. Now, the Level 1, 2, and 3 clinics I had to attend, not so much, they were a waste of time.

scoreandscoreoften · Post by **scoreandscoreoften** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:34 am

I've coached quite a few years and was at a level 3 that lapsed a year ago. Now I would like to coach again at the mite level 1 and have been told I need to start over like a new coach that has never coached before. I guess that's fine but, they make it harder than it needs to be. So, in this case there will be one less coach.

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:00 pm

scoreandscoreoften wrote:I've coached quite a few years and was at a level 3 that lapsed a year ago. Now I would like to coach again at the mite level 1 and have been told I need to start over like a new coach that has never coached before. I guess that's fine but, they make it harder than it needs to be. So, in this case there will be one less coach.

You got incorrect information. All that is required to coach Mites is a Level 1 certification (even if expired) and completion of the Mite module. You have a Level 3, even if it is expired it is still good for Mites, you just need to take the module.

Go back to your coaching director and have him look into it. The info is there at the USA hockey website. If still unsure have him call the district coach-in-chief.

Another option is for you to recertify your Level 3 by taking the online course which you can do twice (Track 1 and Track 2). If you've already done that (which I doubt because I don't think this system has been out long enough for people to have done 2 recerts) then you will need to go to a Level 4. In no way do you start over again at Level 1 after having already reached Level 3.

scoreandscoreoften · Post by **scoreandscoreoften** » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:53 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:
scoreandscoreoften wrote:I've coached quite a few years and was at a level 3 that lapsed a year ago. Now I would like to coach again at the mite level 1 and have been told I need to start over like a new coach that has never coached before. I guess that's fine but, they make it harder than it needs to be. So, in this case there will be one less coach.
You got incorrect information. All that is required to coach Mites is a Level 1 certification (even if expired) and completion of the Mite module. You have a Level 3, even if it is expired it is still good for Mites, you just need to take the module.

Go back to your coaching director and have him look into it. The info is there at the USA hockey website. If still unsure have him call the district coach-in-chief.

Another option is for you to recertify your Level 3 by taking the online course which you can do twice (Track 1 and Track 2). If you've already done that (which I doubt because I don't think this system has been out long enough for people to have done 2 recerts) then you will need to go to a Level 4. In no way do you start over again at Level 1 after having already reached Level 3.

Thanks, I'll look into that.

JSR · Post by **JSR** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 10:38 am

SCBlueLiner wrote:
scoreandscoreoften wrote:I've coached quite a few years and was at a level 3 that lapsed a year ago. Now I would like to coach again at the mite level 1 and have been told I need to start over like a new coach that has never coached before. I guess that's fine but, they make it harder than it needs to be. So, in this case there will be one less coach.
You got incorrect information. All that is required to coach Mites is a Level 1 certification (even if expired) and completion of the Mite module. You have a Level 3, even if it is expired it is still good for Mites, you just need to take the module.

Go back to your coaching director and have him look into it. The info is there at the USA hockey website. If still unsure have him call the district coach-in-chief.

Another option is for you to recertify your Level 3 by taking the online course which you can do twice (Track 1 and Track 2). If you've already done that (which I doubt because I don't think this system has been out long enough for people to have done 2 recerts) then you will need to go to a Level 4. In no way do you start over again at Level 1 after having already reached Level 3.

I believe you are correct.... however once you do the online recert twice you are "forced" to do level 4. If you choose not to do level four you can no longer coach according to the way I read the USA Hockey website. While I agree the level 4 clinic is fantastic it is also an entire weekend commitment that includes a rather large cost that believe it or not a lot of associations are not willing to compensate the individual for. I know a lot of them will but a lot won't, especially small associations with small budgets.

Which brings us to elliots original question, the demands on coaches in both hockey and soccer have become beyond ridiculous for the regular volunteer. For head coaches, ok maybe I understand it. For the coaching director absolutely. But for volunteer assistant coaches, clock runners, locker room monitors, penalty box attendants the demands have become beyond ridiculous and in "non-hockey rich" areas where hockey coaching talent is limited these demands absolutely keep people from helping out. I see it every day. For the all in dad with a hockey back ground like scblueliner or myself we might be willing to do it, but the masses that are required to keep an association alive, no, it's become unworkable and unmanageable. I am on the board of my local association where I also continue to volunteer and help out despite having zero kids in the program and I can tell you it's becoming a heavy load that I'm not sure how much longer I have left in me despite being young) because there are so few of us willing to do what is necessary in this small community. It's the same 8 people literally doing everything all the time because no one else wants to do all these courses that they are forcing on them. Actually our board recently proposed that we look at raising dues so that we can afford to contract with a professional corporate outfit that supplies hockey coaches to associations. We've been doing it in our town for soccer for years and it's worked really great overall so now we are considering doing it for hockey so as to lift the burden of getting quality coaching off the shoulders of volunteers, but again this means it will cost more to play which isn't great either but what else can we do?? :/

elliott70 · Post by **elliott70** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:31 am

Thanks everyone.

And keep posting, the more input the better. Regardless of what the input is.

nofinish · Post by **nofinish** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Elliott,
I have coached many years and have now max'd out my level 3. I have decided to not coach this year for two reasons. 1. I think I needed a break, mainly from parents. 2. the time and money to get level 4 when I think it is totally unnecessary.
I have asked at district meetings why coaches are forced to get level 4 even if they are coaching younger aged kids and get the generic "because that's the rule" answers.

I have coached other sports (not football) and hockey is by far the most demanding for both required training and time dedicated to the team. USA hockey continues to make increased time and money demands that makes the decision to coach tougher every year.

Thank you to all you dedicated coaches that continue to give their time and talents for the kids, good luck this year.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:10 pm

nofinish wrote:I have asked at district meetings why coaches are forced to get level 4 even if they are coaching younger aged kids and get the generic "because that's the rule" answers.

Please don't take it out on those poor folks. Minnesota Hockey is accessible and has more of a say in the matter. For what it's worth, I agree with your position.

dlow · Post by **dlow** » Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:16 pm

Yes to both of the questions but having trouble this year finding enough coaches for the association before even get to the certification process. People are too busy at work and with other commitments to consider it. Associations need to do a better job of recruiting non parent coaches in the off season.

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:05 am

we have tried for years.[twelve I have been involved ] and have landed three nonparent coaches @ BAA/Top team. Of the three One lasted two years, two quit after one. Time commitment/parents were the last ones reason for leaving. The one before that went to the highschool girls as assistant.[time was issue he has two daughters that play] the one before him left because of parents. The coach that didn't have parent problems was the best coach assc. has ever had. He simply didn't listen to parents. Parents wouldn't even approach him. Had kids on and was involved with all these teams. The one that lasted two years had the best record coaching three D1 players/one NHL Draft pick that first year and still got a a rash of PLEASE BAN ME. Because he lost to Apple Valley when they had Hudsen Fashing/Michaelson/Petrie/ yada/ And Eagan team that had 5 kids go on to play D1.

End of story Parents all think they know more. :

Back to parent coach this year and parents from the other teams don't like his picks. It never ends !!!!!