7A 2015-2016 Prediction

[zooomx]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

Enrollment? I watched your Squirt A team beat Andover yesterday. 7 out of 14 kids on that roster, including the brand new goalie, are Duluth and Proctor Kids. That's half the team. Add up the enrollments of Hermantown, Proctor and Denfeld and you are right around 1900, same as Edina.

There is not open enrollment in youth hockey. So, unless these families moved into Hermantown and established residency with the district and association, there are issues. If they did establish residency, then your point is mute. Move ins don't force a co-op. So which is it.

[Froggy Richards]

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

Enrollment? I watched your Squirt A team beat Andover yesterday. 7 out of 14 kids on that roster, including the brand new goalie, are Duluth and Proctor Kids. That's half the team. Add up the enrollments of Hermantown, Proctor and Denfeld and you are right around 1900, same as Edina.

There is not open enrollment in youth hockey. So, unless these families moved into Hermantown and established residency with the district and association, there are issues. If they did establish residency, then your point is mute. Move ins don't force a co-op. So which is it.

I'm not following you. If you open-enroll into a school, you are allowed to play hockey for that Association. Six of the kids are open-enrollees and One moved in last year. My point is that enrollment means nothing when you get the top players from the other schools in the area.

[Hermhawkey]

News Flash Froggy!! People move here...some move away. Some open enroll here some enroll elsewhere. Happens in every city on the planet. Get over it.

[Froggy Richards]

News Flash Froggy!! People move here...some move away. Some open enroll here some enroll elsewhere. Happens in every city on the planet. Get over it.

Yep, and when they're top hockey players, the High School enrollment number becomes quite irrelevant.

[rainier]

Well, 45-50 players would be a huge tryout for most A teams. I would agree that school size is not the only determining factor of high school success, but it can dictate the potential of success. Where it gets messy is when one youth association feeds multiple high school teams (see St. Cloud), or when the demographics of the population make it difficult for recruiting youth players (see downtown urban areas). Then it gets even messier on the girls side when you look at high school programs and youth associations taking a short-sighted solution of merging programs, rather than the long term solution of growing numbers on their own.

The youth AA option is only 3 years old. There are lots of youth AA teams that feed unsuccessful high school programs, so is it really an advantage?

My whole point in my post was the fact that they have not won it all since 2007. To me, until they do win it all regularly, it's a silly complaint. Is it a reasonable argument to say they should consider it? Sure. [/i]

I'm not saying playing in AA at youth levels is an advantage for Hermantown, what I'm saying is that they opt-up to AA at all youth levels, so why wouldn't they play AA in high school? They are the only school that plays AA in youth and A in high school. If they are good enough to opt up all throughout youth, what happens from 9th to 10th grade that renders these players incapable of staying in AA?

As far as not having won it since 2007: Have you seen the teams they have lost to over the last six years? Metro private school teams that were at least top ten in AA in talent and an EGF squad that was a once in a generation group of kids. These teams are not representative of 98% of the other teams in A. And many would argue that Hermantown should have won a couple of of those games, but didn't get it done.

It just makes no sense for a team to continue to beat up on 99.99% of single A competition year after year when they could easily opt up and be one of the best teams in 7AA. They allow open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 that consists of three AA teams and one of the largest A teams, along with one more A team. Does this sound like single A hockey to you?

Again, (this is my opinion) we are where we belong because at this time. At best, we would be a very average to below average AA school. (See teams like Roseau or Cloquet over the last how many years as an example) Not sure what part of this people do not understand. To have depth you need big numbers. We shouldn't have to apologize for being a really good A school. When we grow even close to AA enrollment criteria then AA will need to watch out. With a new HS school and plenty of building going on I would imagine within 5-7 years that will happen. That is, when we have even close to AA enrollment. Sadly, then no one will have anything to talk about.

This is the part I just don't understand; this myth that some Hermantonians believe that they would be an average AA team. Every year your youth teams compete just fine at the AA levels. YHH has the Hawks at # 10 and #13 two and three years ago. That is not at all average, that is very, very good.

In HS, you already are a well above average AA team. You lost a one goal game to Wayzata in the first game of the season last year, had a fluke loss to Hopkins despite outshooting them 56-27, and then went 11-0-1 against AA teams the rest of the way. The Hawks were a young team last year, and once the sophomores settled in after the first few games, you went 19-0-1 to finish the year. You finished #4 in the PageStat ratings, ahead of every single team in 7AA. All this from a team that only had two seniors who were impact players. To say you would not be a very good AA team is insane.

Not enough depth? What other team had as many players in the Elite League as Hermantown did? (I think only Rapids did) And this wasn't some talent-poor Team North, this was one of the best teams the Elite League has ever seen. Plus, Samberg also filled in for Team North, and Valure and Olson were definitely good enough to play for that team too. The Hawks have as much depth as anyone.

I don't get why some Hawk fans get their hackles up when you say anything bad about their team, and then they go and insult their team by saying they couldn't hang with good AA teams. Again, if you're not good enough to play in AA, then why do the youth teams play in AA? Why would you subject the players to such whoopings on a regular basis? In over 100 games the bantams and pee wees played last year, they played two games versus teams from 7A. Why don't you play the teams from the class "where you belong"?

No one is saying you don't have a great program, they are saying:

1. You open enroll kids from a 150,000 person metro area, so your enrollment numbers are misleading.
2. No matter what your enrollment/population is, you are good enough to compete with the best in AA most years, so why don't you?

[Hermhawkey]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

[Hermhawkey]

Yep, and when they're top hockey players, the High School enrollment number becomes quite irrelevant.[/quote]

Top what? Squirts?! Means nothing.

[thespellchecker]

Prediction is the topic
Hermantown wins state, and moves up to AA for 2016-17.

[rainier]

Prediction is the topic
Hermantown wins state, and moves up to AA for 2016-17.

I agree that they will win state this year, but I think the earliest they could opt up would be 17-18.

[Rocketwrister]

Prediction is the topic
Hermantown wins state, and moves up to AA for 2016-17.

I agree that they will win state this year, but I think the earliest they could opt up would be 17-18.

That must be when Bruce retires from coaching???

[Froggy Richards]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

[pekyman]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

Educate Hermsey, what a joke. You mean shame and minimize what Hermantown has accomplished in order to force Hermantown into AA so your beloved Hunters/Blusjackets may have a shot at going to state. As HermHawk said, maybe your energy would be better spent trying to better your program. Most of what you say is BS/jealousy but comparing Hermantown to Edina takes the cake. Have you ever been south of Duluth? Why don't you look EAST for players as they have 4 BN and 6 PW Teams. No way all those kids can play East Varsity. There were many years when EAST cut more players than Hermantown had trying out. Also, I can name many players over the past 6 years that should have been Denfeld, but magically ended up at East, and these were top BN players; not mm, mites and squirts... Moore, Vaklasano, Erwin, etc. Where is your anger there? What about the closing of Central and all the Duluth Heights kids that have to travel so far for HS. If you think Hockey is the only reason people move into Hermantown you are sadly mistaken. If you think Hermantown recruits you are mistaken. The mess you have in Duluth is not Hermantown's doing. You have enough players right where you are you just need to attract them. Hermantown, a school of 600, should not have to move to AA just because you and Rainier are disappointed in your programs. I'm sure if whomever makes those decisions feels it's time then it will happen. If you want to talk more about this then just start a Hermantown trash talk thread and keep it up. Actually, after listening to the two of you whine, Hermantown is just going to attract more people. I'm sick of the topic as I'm sure most others are too.

[green4]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm sick of the topic as I'm sure most others are too.

I do not speak for everyone, but I like reading both sides of the argument. I think it is a fascinating discussion.

[rainier]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

Educate Hermsey, what a joke. You mean shame and minimize what Hermantown has accomplished in order to force Hermantown into AA so your beloved Hunters/Blusjackets may have a shot at going to state. As HermHawk said, maybe your energy would be better spent trying to better your program. Most of what you say is BS/jealousy but comparing Hermantown to Edina takes the cake. Have you ever been south of Duluth? Why don't you look EAST for players as they have 4 BN and 6 PW Teams. No way all those kids can play East Varsity. There were many years when EAST cut more players than Hermantown had trying out. Also, I can name many players over the past 6 years that should have been Denfeld, but magically ended up at East, and these were top BN players; not mm, mites and squirts... Moore, Vaklasano, Erwin, etc. Where is your anger there? What about the closing of Central and all the Duluth Heights kids that have to travel so far for HS. If you think Hockey is the only reason people move into Hermantown you are sadly mistaken. If you think Hermantown recruits you are mistaken. The mess you have in Duluth is not Hermantown's doing. You have enough players right where you are you just need to attract them. Hermantown, a school of 600, should not have to move to AA just because you and Rainier are disappointed in your programs. I'm sure if whomever makes those decisions feels it's time then it will happen. If you want to talk more about this then just start a Hermantown trash talk thread and keep it up. Actually, after listening to the two of you whine, Hermantown is just going to attract more people. I'm sick of the topic as I'm sure most others are too.

I'm not denigrating your program. I am pointing out how excellent it is. All I'm saying is that your youth teams play in AA, your HS team is good enough to play with the best in AA, and your school allows open enrollment in a metro area of 150,000 people. To me that is a recipe for being in AA.

You have a fantastic program, built on the hard work of the coaches, players, and parents. But what do you have left to prove in A? You have a title and 7 title game appearances in A and your pipeline looks like it will continue. There is no reason not to go to AA.

You guys say that you are not good enough to compete in AA and that you would be a sub .500 team. Do you really believe this? You guys were just a shade below STA most years and are they not good enough to compete in AA? Did they instantly become a sub .500 team?

You would rather go to state every year in A than go every third year in AA. That's fine if you prefer that, but don't expect other people to think that is a better choice, and don't be shocked if that choice causes people to lose respect for your program.

[greenway1969]

If Hermantown wants to stay in Class A that doesn't bother me even though it means Greenway has very little chance, if any, of ever going to state again. The point that I would make is that you don't know what you are missing by not getting to state for the AA tournament. I wouldn't exchange Greenway's 3rd place trophy from 2001 for all of the runner-up and championship trophies Hermantown has from the A tournament. The players, coaches and community are missing out on an experience that is difficult to describe. I do not understand why you would settle for less when you have the potential to accomplish something pretty special. I like the Army slogan of "Be all that you can be". There is no doubt in my mind that if Hibbing or Greenway had the kind of great program that Hermantown has that they would opt up to AA.

[pekyman]

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

I'm sick of the topic as I'm sure most others are too.

I do not speak for everyone, but I like reading both sides of the argument. I think it is a fascinating discussion.

Green, the way Edina is dominating AA Hockey it won't be long until a few whiners start saying it's your moral obligation to move out of MN Hockey as it is unfair for the rest of the teams! Maybe your team should just take a year off and give somebody else a chance

[Froggy Richards]

If your kid is not in the program it is easy to say. If you are in the program your perspective would likely be much different. Like I said couldn't be happier with the experience my boys have had in the association. Regardless, none of us in the youth program have any say to what the HS program does. This has been beat to death but our youth program has always played the highest level. Never heard a single complaint however regarding our not opting up from a parent or player in the program.

Froggy, sorry your miserable in your program. Can't help you with that. Instead of bashing ours why not use your energy to make yours better. Maybe they will stop leaving and open enrolling to ours apparently. Bitterness gets you nowhere.

I'm just here to educate people Hermsy. Don't shoot the messenger.

Educate Hermsey, what a joke. You mean shame and minimize what Hermantown has accomplished in order to force Hermantown into AA so your beloved Hunters/Blusjackets may have a shot at going to state. As HermHawk said, maybe your energy would be better spent trying to better your program. Most of what you say is BS/jealousy but comparing Hermantown to Edina takes the cake. Have you ever been south of Duluth? Why don't you look EAST for players as they have 4 BN and 6 PW Teams. No way all those kids can play East Varsity. There were many years when EAST cut more players than Hermantown had trying out. Also, I can name many players over the past 6 years that should have been Denfeld, but magically ended up at East, and these were top BN players; not mm, mites and squirts... Moore, Vaklasano, Erwin, etc. Where is your anger there? What about the closing of Central and all the Duluth Heights kids that have to travel so far for HS. If you think Hockey is the only reason people move into Hermantown you are sadly mistaken. If you think Hermantown recruits you are mistaken. The mess you have in Duluth is not Hermantown's doing. You have enough players right where you are you just need to attract them. Hermantown, a school of 600, should not have to move to AA just because you and Rainier are disappointed in your programs. I'm sure if whomever makes those decisions feels it's time then it will happen. If you want to talk more about this then just start a Hermantown trash talk thread and keep it up. Actually, after listening to the two of you whine, Hermantown is just going to attract more people. I'm sick of the topic as I'm sure most others are too.

East plays AA Pek. They aren't bringing in top players to knock off Belgrade/Brooten/Elrosa in the Quarterfinals.

If what everyone was saying on here wasn't true then you and Hermsy wouldn't get so riled up. You've called me more names in the last year then all of my ex-girlfriends combined. That's not how Adults act when they're on the winning side of a debate.

I have no doubt you're sick of the topic. If I were you I would enjoy the small-town, feel-good story much better too. But as they say, none of us are entitled to our own facts.

[Froggy Richards]

If Hermantown wants to stay in Class A that doesn't bother me even though it means Greenway has very little chance, if any, of ever going to state again. The point that I would make is that you don't know what you are missing by not getting to state for the AA tournament. I wouldn't exchange Greenway's 3rd place trophy from 2001 for all of the runner-up and championship trophies Hermantown has from the A tournament. The players, coaches and community are missing out on an experience that is difficult to describe. I do not understand why you would settle for less when you have the potential to accomplish something pretty special. I like the Army slogan of "Be all that you can be". There is no doubt in my mind that if Hibbing or Greenway had the kind of great program that Hermantown has that they would opt up to AA.

Very well said. Great post.

[rainier]

If Hermantown wants to stay in Class A that doesn't bother me even though it means Greenway has very little chance, if any, of ever going to state again. The point that I would make is that you don't know what you are missing by not getting to state for the AA tournament. I wouldn't exchange Greenway's 3rd place trophy from 2001 for all of the runner-up and championship trophies Hermantown has from the A tournament. The players, coaches and community are missing out on an experience that is difficult to describe. I do not understand why you would settle for less when you have the potential to accomplish something pretty special. I like the Army slogan of "Be all that you can be". There is no doubt in my mind that if Hibbing or Greenway had the kind of great program that Hermantown has that they would opt up to AA.

Exactly, couldn't have put it better. I have enjoyed watching Hibbing's appearances in the A tourney, but I would trade them in a heartbeat to be competitive in AA, even if it meant winning 7AA only once every 10 years.

I doubt any Bemidji fan would trade their appearance at the AA tourney last year for a bunch of Class A success. They gave Edina a run for their money and those fans will always remember it fondly.

I would love to root for Hermantown in 7AA and at the AA tourney, and I think most of the rest of the state would too. East beat Edina and Bemidji played the Hornets tough, and I think the Hawks were better than both the Hounds and Jacks last year. Losing to LN during prime time would be way more fun than losing to EGF at lunchtime. And I think 18,000 people cheering for the Hawks would be an effective 7th man and help them play at another level.

[elliott70]

If Hermantown wants to stay in Class A that doesn't bother me even though it means Greenway has very little chance, if any, of ever going to state again. The point that I would make is that you don't know what you are missing by not getting to state for the AA tournament. I wouldn't exchange Greenway's 3rd place trophy from 2001 for all of the runner-up and championship trophies Hermantown has from the A tournament. The players, coaches and community are missing out on an experience that is difficult to describe. I do not understand why you would settle for less when you have the potential to accomplish something pretty special. I like the Army slogan of "Be all that you can be". There is no doubt in my mind that if Hibbing or Greenway had the kind of great program that Hermantown has that they would opt up to AA.

Exactly, couldn't have put it better. I have enjoyed watching Hibbing's appearances in the A tourney, but I would trade them in a heartbeat to be competitive in AA, even if it meant winning 7AA only once every 10 years.

I doubt any Bemidji fan would trade their appearance at the AA tourney last year for a bunch of Class A success. They gave Edina a run for their money and those fans will always remember it fondly.

I would love to root for Hermantown in 7AA and at the AA tourney, and I think most of the rest of the state would too. East beat Edina and Bemidji played the Hornets tough, and I think the Hawks were better than both the Hounds and Jacks last year. Losing to LN during prime time would be way more fun than losing to EGF at lunchtime. And I think 18,000 people cheering for the Hawks would be an effective 7th man and help them play at another level.

Bemidji's thought process is that to make it to state at A or AA you have to beat good competition.
A Warroad, Thief River Falls, East Grand Forks.
AA Moorhead, Roseau, Brainerd and now St Michael-Albertville.
Its tough either way. The A route is Bemidji's natural rivalry in youth hockey (Roseau is also). But Moorhead and Brainerd are our high school rivalry schools in most sports. Play AA is pretty much the choice that fits.

STA took heat for being A. If EGF wins A again they probably will get heat.
Hermantown is good and will get heat.

I wish HTown were AA this year. I would love to see them beat DEast in 7AA and then beat Edina in the semis and then lose to Bemidji in the finals.

[OGEE OGELTHORPE]

I thought Elliott quit drinking....guess not.

[elliott70]

I thought Elliott quit drinking....guess not.

And take the joy from my life.....

[C-dad]

I wish HTown were AA this year. I would love to see them beat DEast in 7AA and then beat Edina in the semis and then lose to Bemidji in the finals.

Well, we all have our little fantasies. Some are just more realistic than others, like mine with some Victoria's Secret Models vs elliott's.

[Wet Paint]

I wish HTown were AA this year. I would love to see them beat DEast in 7AA and then beat Edina in the semis and then lose to Bemidji in the finals.

Well, we all have our little fantasies. Some are just more realistic than others, like mine with some Victoria's Secret Models vs elliott's.

I don't know about that. Granted the last couple of years they have been weaker than usual but still strong enough to take second place in the A tourney but there were couple of teams about 3 years or so ago that had kids like Jared Thomas and Neil Pionk on them along with a host of other very good players who could have made a solid run deep into the AA tourney.

[elliott70]

I wish HTown were AA this year. I would love to see them beat DEast in 7AA and then beat Edina in the semis and then lose to Bemidji in the finals.

Well, we all have our little fantasies. Some are just more realistic than others, like mine with some Victoria's Secret Models vs elliott's.

Those fantasies became a reality for me many years ago.