MN does not develop goalies

Yoopskater · Post by **Yoopskater** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:39 pm

Interesting to note that MN has more skaters in the NHL than any other state. Goalies? MN ranks 8th. Any theories out there for this? My theory is that HS hockey is much more visible to kids than other states. Kids grow up watching the state tourney and the goal scoring heroes and want to do the same. Less athletes playing goalie per capita than other states. Thoughts?

WestMetro · Post by **WestMetro** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:05 pm

Yoops

Some good thoughts...

Charlie Lindgren made us proud, and might have created some momentum...

Begley getting D1 interest

Several bigger MN goalies are moving through system in recent years. I believe Moe is a top uncommited for example, and potentially more beyond?

north_bear · Post by **north_bear** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:46 pm

Bitzer (Moorhead) and Shepard (GR) are on D1 teams currently.

Stalock (St Paul) is currently playing in the AHL in the Minnesota Wild system.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:54 pm

You'll find your answer when you identify how the rest of the country is different from our model.

Also- Minnesota produces some good skating - role players that make it to the NHL, but producing a 100 point season type player is not happening.. Minnesota has only Broten. This is an amazingly - alarming stat!

Some things are great in this good for all run hockey government.. But it creates limitations.

Many new off season leagues have been added recently in Minnesota.. So I guess we'll see how the future crops do..

I see I gave away the answer..

warriors41 · Post by **warriors41** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:08 am

north_bear wrote:Bitzer (Moorhead) and Shepard (GR) are on D1 teams currently.

Stalock (St Paul) is currently playing in the AHL in the Minnesota Wild system.

Zane McIntyre from TRF is currently with the Boston Bruins and played in 4 games this year.

Alex Lyon is in the Flyers system in the ECHL I believe.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:13 am

Great topic!! Sitting in 8th place is an obvious problem that needs to be discussed and figured out! Too much hockey going in this state to be that far back..

north_bear · Post by **north_bear** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:01 am

MrBoDangles wrote:Great topic!! Sitting in 8th place is an obvious problem that needs to be discussed and figured out! Too much hockey going in this state to be that far back..

Yep lol. The future of MN hockey is in dire straights! Heaven forbid the state of hockey doesn't lead in every American category and sub category. Everyone panic!

Goldyismoldy · Post by **Goldyismoldy** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:25 am

Northfield is in Minnesota right?

thestickler07 · Post by **thestickler07** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:38 am

north_bear wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Great topic!! Sitting in 8th place is an obvious problem that needs to be discussed and figured out! Too much hockey going in this state to be that far back..
Yep lol. The future of MN hockey is in dire straights! Heaven forbid the state of hockey doesn't lead in every American category and sub category. Everyone panic!

Is there a reason we shouldn't?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 12:58 pm

north_bear wrote:
MrBoDangles wrote:Great topic!! Sitting in 8th place is an obvious problem that needs to be discussed and figured out! Too much hockey going in this state to be that far back..
Yep lol. The future of MN hockey is in dire straights! Heaven forbid the state of hockey doesn't lead in every American category and sub category. Everyone panic!

Don't get your panties all in a bunch... Our system is great and and we produce very good players with all the ice we have! But for some reason we don't produce the 100 point season type player like the rest of the country and world. Same goes for goalies.. Have we ever had a huge goalie name that kids can look up to here in Minnesota? 8th place in goalies and we're the state where hockey is first? It shows me that something is very flawed and it shouldn't be swept under the rug.

"How can we improve" shouldn't be venomous words..

SPUDNUT · Post by **SPUDNUT** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 1:10 pm

Michael Bitzer ? . . . . . Joh Casey ? . . . . . Rob Stauber ?

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:13 pm

SPUDNUT wrote:Michael Bitzer ? . . . . . Joh Casey ? . . . . . Rob Stauber ?

Are you trying to say...... VERY slim pickings....... In the big picture?

Task Force 34 · Post by **Task Force 34** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:28 pm

Driscoll from Eastview - Now at St. Cloud
Hanson from St. Francis - Committed to Union
Miska from North Branch - NTDP and tearing it up at UMD
Robbel from Bloomington - Shattuck and committed to Lake Superior State
Karki from St. Cloud - NTDP and No Dak commit

A few off the cuff.

CreaseMonkey · Post by **CreaseMonkey** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:02 pm

I don't think it is so much a lack of developing goalies in Minnesota as it is a bias against high school hockey overall.

In my opinion, scouting has gotten lazy, focusing almost exclusively on the Elite League and the Advanced 15-17 programs. If a kid does not play in one of those two, he is likely not going to get noticed. Same goes for a kid who is not getting meaningful minutes during his Soph year. Hype at an early age goes a lot further than what a guy actually does his Junior and/or Senior years. If you look at the USHL and NAHL draft, most of the goalies come out of midget AAA hockey.

The interesting flip side is you see a lot of MN skaters get a D1 offer while still playing high school, but the goalies who are shutting down those same skaters not getting any credit. Someone needs to decide if the skaters are good and the goalies deserve some credit, or if the goalies are crap and the skaters are getting undue credit. Really can't have it both ways.

I have watched enough junior camps and seen MN goalies who had very solid HS careers play circles around guys who came from Midget AAA. At the end of the camp none of that matters, they are the ones going home. AAA boys are the ones who were drafted or had been scouted more.

I had an opportunity to talk to several scouts at high school games over the years, and they were only there to watch a specific player. No matter what any other player on the ice did, the only thing they were interested in was the guy they came to see. One commented that there was no way he was driving all the way up to the border to watch that same kid play a home game, so I do not think most of these scouts are bird dogging like they did in the past.

Schotzy · Post by **Schotzy** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:41 am

MrBoDangles wrote:Have we ever had a huge goalie name that kids can look up to here in Minnesota?

You have to go back quite a way for an absolutely elite NHL goalie from MN, but Eveleth's Frank "Mr. Zero" Brimsek is a Hall of Famer for his career with the Boston Bruins and Chicago Blackhawks from the 1930's to 1950. He held some pretty impressive records for wins and shutouts that stood for a very long time.

Sad that you would have to go back that far to find an example though.

This also perpetuates the problem, as there are not a lot of good goalies that have come back to help the up-and-coming netminders of the future. There are not a lot of current youth coaches that have the first clue on what to do with a goalie. Heck, they don't even know the proper way to warm a goalie up. Other areas have both these things addressed. Goalie mentoring and educated coaches.

Schotzy · Post by **Schotzy** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:47 am

Oh....one more thing. I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but since when does it make sense to stick your least talented skater in the net? I have seen this way too many times. The "small", "slow", "weak" player gets put in the pads, and that is where he stays.

I always thought the "rule" was to take your best, most coordinated skater and put him in the net.

mulefarm · Post by **mulefarm** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:01 am

Schotzy wrote:Oh....one more thing. I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but since when does it make sense to stick your least talented skater in the net? I have seen this way too many times. The "small", "slow", "weak" player gets put in the pads, and that is where he stays.

I always thought the "rule" was to take your best, most coordinated skater and put him in the net.

Some good points. I can only remember 3 that played a lot in the NHL. Casey, LoPresti and Rhodes. The last 10 yrs or so, size has really played a prominent role in goalies. Bitzer who plays at BSU is a prime example. Excelled at HS, Jr and college, but at 5'10" probably won't get sniff in the NHL. My guess you have to be at least 6'2" to get looked at.

redtundra · Post by **redtundra** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:08 am

Schotzy wrote:Oh....one more thing. I don't know what it is like elsewhere, but since when does it make sense to stick your least talented skater in the net? I have seen this way too many times. The "small", "slow", "weak" player gets put in the pads, and that is where he stays.

I always thought the "rule" was to take your best, most coordinated skater and put him in the net.

You hit the head on the nail. I asked a buddy in the NHL a few years back why there are so many great goalies from Finland in the NHL (I may be wrong, but Finland is I believe proportionate in size to MN). He said it was simple. At a young age Finland's best athletes play goalie and ours don't. It starts - and ends - there most likely.

BigWorm · Post by **BigWorm** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:20 am

In general, the goalie position is a crap shoot. I wouldn't read too much into this stat, especially since nowadays NHL teams like their goalies to be 6'2+ tall. Takes a rare breed to even get AHL looks. Any idea how Wilcox is playing?

buttonupyrovercoat · Post by **buttonupyrovercoat** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:25 am

Not sure where 8th comes from?

NHL goaltenders by state of birth:

Michigan 5
Massachusetts 3
New York 2
Illinois 2
Minnesota (and 7 other states) 1

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/ ... stats.html

So, tied for 5th this year and tied for 3rd last year with 2 goalies. These numbers are too small to attribute much statistical significance to, though maybe looking at longterm trends could say something?

TheNightman · Post by **TheNightman** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:55 am

Oettinger could be a first round pick in this year's draft. Consensus best goalie in the draft.

Ozzie82 · Post by **Ozzie82** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:55 pm

Task Force 34 wrote:Driscoll from Eastview - Now at St. Cloud
Hanson from St. Francis - Committed to Union
Miska from North Branch - NTDP and tearing it up at UMD
Robbel from Bloomington - Shattuck and committed to Lake Superior State
Karki from St. Cloud - NTDP and No Dak commit

A few off the cuff.

Thome from BSM/Minneapolis - No Dak commit

Bluelightspecial-II · Post by **Bluelightspecial-II** » Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:38 pm

TheNightman wrote:Oettinger could be a first round pick in this year's draft. Consensus best goalie in the draft.

You must know his mom.