Section 6AA Final: Edina vs. Wayzata
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: Wayzata
I wouldn't underestimate Wayzata in any of the state tourney games due to the way the games are called this time of the year. It really favors their type of game.
As the Edina players (arms in the air on no calls) and the fans have noted the refs put the whistles away this time of the year and you have to be able to battle through it. I personally don't believe Wayzata would have won the EP game last year (or the Stillwater game for that matter) if the game was called more like a hockey game than a free for all. I am sure some will say that is the game ... suck it up. If that is the case call it that way all year.
Last year it was the same for them, they got away with a lot of extra stuff in the tourney. If the refs let them play hold, grab, slash etc... without calls they could beat anyone. I personally like a physical game but when they get away with all the interference away from the play it takes away from the game. Even in the NHL, they stopped that stuff in the playoffs. Physical play good...other stuff makes the game worse.
The first goal means so much in these games and when Wayzata got that bounce early it was a sign of things to come! If Wayzata gives up the first goal in any game in the tourney they are likely on the losing end of the game. They have to start coming out of their shell.
Finally, this team from Edina was always a year or two away from being a favorite. The Senior group (which I would put Walker in as he has always played with them in youth) have not won the big ones along the way. That was with Phillips, Mishmash, Tabor and Copeland playing with them. Tough to win the big one without a little more upperclassman leadership that gives you stability. Edina didn't have Casey and Nicky to make the difference like EP did yesterday.
As the Edina players (arms in the air on no calls) and the fans have noted the refs put the whistles away this time of the year and you have to be able to battle through it. I personally don't believe Wayzata would have won the EP game last year (or the Stillwater game for that matter) if the game was called more like a hockey game than a free for all. I am sure some will say that is the game ... suck it up. If that is the case call it that way all year.
Last year it was the same for them, they got away with a lot of extra stuff in the tourney. If the refs let them play hold, grab, slash etc... without calls they could beat anyone. I personally like a physical game but when they get away with all the interference away from the play it takes away from the game. Even in the NHL, they stopped that stuff in the playoffs. Physical play good...other stuff makes the game worse.
The first goal means so much in these games and when Wayzata got that bounce early it was a sign of things to come! If Wayzata gives up the first goal in any game in the tourney they are likely on the losing end of the game. They have to start coming out of their shell.
Finally, this team from Edina was always a year or two away from being a favorite. The Senior group (which I would put Walker in as he has always played with them in youth) have not won the big ones along the way. That was with Phillips, Mishmash, Tabor and Copeland playing with them. Tough to win the big one without a little more upperclassman leadership that gives you stability. Edina didn't have Casey and Nicky to make the difference like EP did yesterday.
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Doc Holliday
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From my viewpoint, both Wayzata goals were caused by flat out outworking Edina. Edina was lazy with the puck on the first one, and Brinkman was lazy on the second one.
Edina seemed to be afraid to hold onto the puck, almost afraid of being hit. So many quick attempts at tapping it, or chipping it when it was totally unnecessary. I thought they started to shift the game in the 2nd and it looked like it was their game. But Wayzata played a really solid 3rd period.
I thought the reffing was ok. Sure there were probably a few missed calls here & there, but I didn't see anything overly obscene.
Wayzata deserved to win, especially the way they played in the 3rd period & the way their goalie played. They'll be a difficult out with the way they play & won't be intimidated by anybody in the field. But I do see it being difficult for them to do it 3 games in a row.
Edina seemed to be afraid to hold onto the puck, almost afraid of being hit. So many quick attempts at tapping it, or chipping it when it was totally unnecessary. I thought they started to shift the game in the 2nd and it looked like it was their game. But Wayzata played a really solid 3rd period.
I thought the reffing was ok. Sure there were probably a few missed calls here & there, but I didn't see anything overly obscene.
Wayzata deserved to win, especially the way they played in the 3rd period & the way their goalie played. They'll be a difficult out with the way they play & won't be intimidated by anybody in the field. But I do see it being difficult for them to do it 3 games in a row.
Doc... I agree... I don't think the game last night was too bad. I have seen much worse.
I thought last year was worse in the State tourney games. The reffing comments were more about Wayzata's chances next weekend. I think they are better than most would think due to their style and how things change at the end of the year.
I thought last year was worse in the State tourney games. The reffing comments were more about Wayzata's chances next weekend. I think they are better than most would think due to their style and how things change at the end of the year.
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WarmUpTheBus
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Re: Wayzata
Edina complains about almost every penalty call. It starts with the coach. Brinkman complained the most of the players. As far as refs putting whistles away I think Edina's reputation for diving, as witnessed by an embellishment call last night, is catching up with them. The refs feel diving is an attempt to show them up so they put the whistles in their pockets instead of risking a bad call on a dive.Trout wrote:I wouldn't underestimate Wayzata in any of the state tourney games due to the way the games are called this time of the year. It really favors their type of game.
As the Edina players (arms in the air on no calls) and the fans have noted the refs put the whistles away this time of the year and you have to be able to battle through it. I personally don't believe Wayzata would have won the EP game last year (or the Stillwater game for that matter) if the game was called more like a hockey game than a free for all. I am sure some will say that is the game ... suck it up. If that is the case call it that way all year.
Last year it was the same for them, they got away with a lot of extra stuff in the tourney. If the refs let them play hold, grab, slash etc... without calls they could beat anyone. I personally like a physical game but when they get away with all the interference away from the play it takes away from the game. Even in the NHL, they stopped that stuff in the playoffs. Physical play good...other stuff makes the game worse.
The first goal means so much in these games and when Wayzata got that bounce early it was a sign of things to come! If Wayzata gives up the first goal in any game in the tourney they are likely on the losing end of the game. They have to start coming out of their shell.
Finally, this team from Edina was always a year or two away from being a favorite. The Senior group (which I would put Walker in as he has always played with them in youth) have not won the big ones along the way. That was with Phillips, Mishmash, Tabor and Copeland playing with them. Tough to win the big one without a little more upperclassman leadership that gives you stability. Edina didn't have Casey and Nicky to make the difference like EP did yesterday.
Re: Wayzata
I agree with most of this, I think the embellishing is mostly just one player. Most teams have guys that embellish, some are just better at it ten others. The Shoemaker penalty last night was caused by an embellishment from a Wayzata player but might have only been noticeable from the corner it occurred in. I thought the kid was gonna give it away when he started celebrating over it.WarmUpTheBus wrote:Edina complains about almost every penalty call. It starts with the coach. Brinkman complained the most of the players. As far as refs putting whistles away I think Edina's reputation for diving, as witnessed by an embellishment call last night, is catching up with them. The refs feel diving is an attempt to show them up so they put the whistles in their pockets instead of risking a bad call on a dive.Trout wrote:I wouldn't underestimate Wayzata in any of the state tourney games due to the way the games are called this time of the year. It really favors their type of game.
As the Edina players (arms in the air on no calls) and the fans have noted the refs put the whistles away this time of the year and you have to be able to battle through it. I personally don't believe Wayzata would have won the EP game last year (or the Stillwater game for that matter) if the game was called more like a hockey game than a free for all. I am sure some will say that is the game ... suck it up. If that is the case call it that way all year.
Last year it was the same for them, they got away with a lot of extra stuff in the tourney. If the refs let them play hold, grab, slash etc... without calls they could beat anyone. I personally like a physical game but when they get away with all the interference away from the play it takes away from the game. Even in the NHL, they stopped that stuff in the playoffs. Physical play good...other stuff makes the game worse.
The first goal means so much in these games and when Wayzata got that bounce early it was a sign of things to come! If Wayzata gives up the first goal in any game in the tourney they are likely on the losing end of the game. They have to start coming out of their shell.
Finally, this team from Edina was always a year or two away from being a favorite. The Senior group (which I would put Walker in as he has always played with them in youth) have not won the big ones along the way. That was with Phillips, Mishmash, Tabor and Copeland playing with them. Tough to win the big one without a little more upperclassman leadership that gives you stability. Edina didn't have Casey and Nicky to make the difference like EP did yesterday.
Hornet fan here, couple of interesting takeaways from last nights game.
First, you've got to give credit where credit is due. Wayzata played a heck of a game. Fact of the matter is, successful teams capitalize on their opportunities, and the Trojans did just that. Edina had maybe 4 defensive lapses last night and Wayzata scored on 50% of them... I don't care who you are, if you can take advantage of those opportunities, you have a chance to win. And when a goalie is standing on his head to keep you in it, really gives a lot of confidence to the rest of the team. Good win.
As for my beloved Hornets, I'm not sure I can add more to what Green4 has said but the bottom line is we didn't play championship hockey, and we paid for it.
I thought right from the get go, and proven by the early goal, that we didn't show up ready to play a tight game against a defensively minded team, which is interesting considering we played them, what, 3 or 4 times this season? Maybe we just expected the goals to naturally come, but when you're taking straight line shots right into the goalie's glove, you honestly can't expect to score that much...
When I think about Edina's best teams, our '10, '13 and '14 championship teams, I think of fantastic puck movement that made the goalie move LATERALLY. We have really talented guys who can move the puck and finish-let's give us an empty net to shoot at! Sorry to say it, but we don't have a pure sniper who can make that bar down shot from the top of the circle. I think frustration caused our guys to start to play hero-ball because I saw very limited quality offensive zone passing as the game wore on.
Our best teams also have depth that Giles can rely on-when you can roll that 4th line to shut down every once in a while. I don't think this year's team had that, and I do agree with Green4 that it was interesting Giles was rolling the 3rd line in the 3rd, but maybe he had the Anders Lee-Budish-Everson debacle telling him to do otherwise.
As for officiating, I personally am more of a "let em play" guy so I have a hard time complaining but I do agree that if they are going to call it tight in the regular season then they should keep it that way during the playoffs.
I think, though, that Edina's players were worried too much about the stripes, and their body language showed it. Unfortunately, you can only control what you can control, and when they start raising arms and rolling eyes, it just screams to the other team that it's getting in their heads.
Bottom line, Edina didn't have it, didn't play like they had it, and came across a team who wanted it and got some puck luck/great goal tending along the way. This entire season I looked at this team and thought they were good, but were maybe a year out from being legit contenders. I think if they had made a run and found themselves matched against EP in the title game that EP would have won.
Now to wait and see who bounces for greener pastures and who sticks around for a shot next year. Brinkman is a legit talent, would love to see him in Kelly Green and White again next year!
First, you've got to give credit where credit is due. Wayzata played a heck of a game. Fact of the matter is, successful teams capitalize on their opportunities, and the Trojans did just that. Edina had maybe 4 defensive lapses last night and Wayzata scored on 50% of them... I don't care who you are, if you can take advantage of those opportunities, you have a chance to win. And when a goalie is standing on his head to keep you in it, really gives a lot of confidence to the rest of the team. Good win.
As for my beloved Hornets, I'm not sure I can add more to what Green4 has said but the bottom line is we didn't play championship hockey, and we paid for it.
I thought right from the get go, and proven by the early goal, that we didn't show up ready to play a tight game against a defensively minded team, which is interesting considering we played them, what, 3 or 4 times this season? Maybe we just expected the goals to naturally come, but when you're taking straight line shots right into the goalie's glove, you honestly can't expect to score that much...
When I think about Edina's best teams, our '10, '13 and '14 championship teams, I think of fantastic puck movement that made the goalie move LATERALLY. We have really talented guys who can move the puck and finish-let's give us an empty net to shoot at! Sorry to say it, but we don't have a pure sniper who can make that bar down shot from the top of the circle. I think frustration caused our guys to start to play hero-ball because I saw very limited quality offensive zone passing as the game wore on.
Our best teams also have depth that Giles can rely on-when you can roll that 4th line to shut down every once in a while. I don't think this year's team had that, and I do agree with Green4 that it was interesting Giles was rolling the 3rd line in the 3rd, but maybe he had the Anders Lee-Budish-Everson debacle telling him to do otherwise.
As for officiating, I personally am more of a "let em play" guy so I have a hard time complaining but I do agree that if they are going to call it tight in the regular season then they should keep it that way during the playoffs.
I think, though, that Edina's players were worried too much about the stripes, and their body language showed it. Unfortunately, you can only control what you can control, and when they start raising arms and rolling eyes, it just screams to the other team that it's getting in their heads.
Bottom line, Edina didn't have it, didn't play like they had it, and came across a team who wanted it and got some puck luck/great goal tending along the way. This entire season I looked at this team and thought they were good, but were maybe a year out from being legit contenders. I think if they had made a run and found themselves matched against EP in the title game that EP would have won.
Now to wait and see who bounces for greener pastures and who sticks around for a shot next year. Brinkman is a legit talent, would love to see him in Kelly Green and White again next year!
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twolinepass
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That was hands down the best goaltending performance I have seen at the high school level probably ever. I think it's a disservice to say that Waszczenko didn't steal this game for them. Edina controlled play all night long and had so many good looks that they got stoned on. I would be nervous playing them next week they'll. Look at Wayzata last year, they weren't the best team in the state but they rode a hot goalie in Schilling to a title. Clearly that team last year was better then the one this year in all aspects but if you get a guy that keep you in a game like that don't be surprised if they ride the wave in St. Paul.
twolinepass wrote:That was hands down the best goaltending performance I have seen at the high school level probably ever. I think it's a disservice to say that Waszczenko didn't steal this game for them. Edina controlled play all night long and had so many good looks that they got stoned on. I would be nervous playing them next week they'll. Look at Wayzata last year, they weren't the best team in the state but they rode a hot goalie in Schilling to a title. Clearly that team last year was better then the one this year in all aspects but if you get a guy that keep you in a game like that don't be surprised if they ride the wave in St. Paul.
"Hands down the best goaltending performance at the high school level" seems like a little bit hyperbole, but he did play very very well. But like Greeny said, I think part of it was also due to the lack of offensive zone passing we usually see out of Edina, more so after Wayzata's go ahead goal in the third.
That said Edina was still by far the best passing team of the night especially in the neutral zone. So many rink wide passes that created offensive zone opportunities. Giles coached teams are always a blast to watch from that aspect as he seems to be very good at teaching his players how to find those lanes.
Yes, I agree, and sorry if that wasn't clear. Edina is still an elite puck moving team, I have a hard time finding other teams who so effortlessly work through the neutral zone like Edina does. I think we just got away from our game when we realized this was going to be a tough one and like I said, started to play a little bit of hero-ball when we had the puck in the offensive zone.The51 wrote: But like Greeny said, I think part of it was also due to the lack of offensive zone passing we usually see out of Edina, more so after Wayzata's go ahead goal in the third.
That said Edina was still by far the best passing team of the night especially in the neutral zone. So many rink wide passes that created offensive zone opportunities. Giles coached teams are always a blast to watch from that aspect as he seems to be very good at teaching his players how to find those lanes.
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GoldyGopher
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Not partial to either of these teams. Was very unimpressed with Edina in the 3rd period last night. Body language and hustle did not seem to be worthy of a section final win at all and that's why they will be cleaning lockers out instead of preparing for state. Other than the one opportunity at the side of the net there was zero urgency to tie the game late.
O'Leary strikes again.
O'Leary strikes again.
Bob Vance, Vance Refrigeration
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Doc Holliday
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I agree. TERRIBLE body language. Seemed like some, particularly Brinkman, were literally moping. And agree with the urgency. I know you want to try to remain calm & not press, but it seemed like it was almost too much that way.GoldyGopher wrote:Not partial to either of these teams. Was very unimpressed with Edina in the 3rd period last night. Body language and hustle did not seem to be worthy of a section final win at all and that's why they will be cleaning lockers out instead of preparing for state. Other than the one opportunity at the side of the net there was zero urgency to tie the game late.
O'Leary strikes again.
Great coverage reporting by many people above, especially Green4.
Livestream was NOT fixed in my West Metro , bad for the whole game even when I walked into the bedroom to get 4bars! Thanks to MSBN audio at least, and FTP/YHH
Congrats to Trojans. Especially loyal fan GB who must be superexcited.
And congrats to Hornets, a young team who really overachieved compared to what all pundits thought at beginning of season, where they were ranked in lower top 10 or even 11th-15th.
All of us in my group had thought Wayzata was capable of an upset and it is always the case that any Lake Conf team team except Hopkins can beat any other on any given night, expecially if huge night by one goaltender. Lets remember, Wayzata basically has last year Championship team back with exception of Hank Sorenson. Plus added Mulrenhin. Several D1 returning commits, and Griffin Ness was a top Elite League scorer.
No one mentioned the relative size and strength differential of Wayzata vs Hornets (with exception of Brinkman). This can take a toll on a smaller team by the third period, and also gives the smaller team less room to maneuver in slot and maintain low slot position for deflections and to get at rebounds.. For those that were there, was this a factor?
Goaltender W. seemed to be making a lot of unbelievable glove saves. Did the Hornets try to change tactics and come at him more from the stick side?
Walker should have been able to snipe over there if he had a good look.
Agree with Sparlimb who said:
"Any team next week can beat any other team. I can't think of a more even state tournament ever played, no matter who wins these last sections. EP will be the favorite, but they could lose 2 and out just as easily."
Except, agree EP is still the BIG favorite . With Elk and ED out, and of course HF, the odds have diminished greatly that they will be upset along the way. As to SW or GR, frankly I give GR the somewhat better chance of an upset than SW, if the Thawks win tonite and play at high level like last Saturday.
Interesting that unseeded WAyz could potentially draw #1 EP in the first round, for a repeat of last years championship game.
Livestream was NOT fixed in my West Metro , bad for the whole game even when I walked into the bedroom to get 4bars! Thanks to MSBN audio at least, and FTP/YHH
Congrats to Trojans. Especially loyal fan GB who must be superexcited.
And congrats to Hornets, a young team who really overachieved compared to what all pundits thought at beginning of season, where they were ranked in lower top 10 or even 11th-15th.
All of us in my group had thought Wayzata was capable of an upset and it is always the case that any Lake Conf team team except Hopkins can beat any other on any given night, expecially if huge night by one goaltender. Lets remember, Wayzata basically has last year Championship team back with exception of Hank Sorenson. Plus added Mulrenhin. Several D1 returning commits, and Griffin Ness was a top Elite League scorer.
No one mentioned the relative size and strength differential of Wayzata vs Hornets (with exception of Brinkman). This can take a toll on a smaller team by the third period, and also gives the smaller team less room to maneuver in slot and maintain low slot position for deflections and to get at rebounds.. For those that were there, was this a factor?
Goaltender W. seemed to be making a lot of unbelievable glove saves. Did the Hornets try to change tactics and come at him more from the stick side?
Walker should have been able to snipe over there if he had a good look.
Agree with Sparlimb who said:
"Any team next week can beat any other team. I can't think of a more even state tournament ever played, no matter who wins these last sections. EP will be the favorite, but they could lose 2 and out just as easily."
Except, agree EP is still the BIG favorite . With Elk and ED out, and of course HF, the odds have diminished greatly that they will be upset along the way. As to SW or GR, frankly I give GR the somewhat better chance of an upset than SW, if the Thawks win tonite and play at high level like last Saturday.
Interesting that unseeded WAyz could potentially draw #1 EP in the first round, for a repeat of last years championship game.
Walker did hit the crossbar in the 3rd, though it was glove side. Walker and jungles both had near goals in the 2nd where they fought off a defender and put it stick side. Besides that and the final 3-5 minutes I can't think of any other good looks that were not at the glove. I seem to be in the minority, but I just thought Edina didn't test all the attributes of the goalie.WestMetro wrote:
Goaltender W. seemed to be making a lot of unbelievable glove saves. Did the Hornets try to change tactics and come at him more from the stick side?
Walker should have been able to snipe over there if he had a good look.
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Doc Holliday
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You could definitely see the size difference in person. Wayzata tried to play their cycle game, which absolutely wore down Edina in last year's section semi. A little bit of sustained cycling, but definitely not as effective at it as last year's team. I do think Edina was a little timid though when the puck came their way in the defensive zone though. They really wanted to get rid of it, whether it was with a skate or stick deflection or a touch pass or off the boards. I don't think the size played much of a factor in Wayzata's zone down low.WestMetro wrote:No one mentioned the relative size and strength differential of Wayzata vs Hornets (with exception of Brinkman). This can take a toll on a smaller team by the third period, and also gives the smaller team less room to maneuver in slot and maintain low slot position for deflections and to get at rebounds.. For those that were there, was this a factor?
Believe he didn't make the final section roster. As we have seen, O'Leary thrives on good defense and my guess is he felt there were kids with better upside in that department.50in15 wrote:Anyone know where #7. Ryan Mulrenin, for Wayzata was last night? The freshman looked impressive over the holidays. Is he injured?
So what happened in the 3rd period? The 1st line for Edina has not had the same right wing most of the season. Who was on the 1st line for Edina? Moon? How does a forward with 1 goal in 4 years on Edina varsity end up on the 1st line?ryguyMN wrote:Edina looked better in the second period. Wayzata started getting sloppy towards the end of the period with attacks being offside. Could be fatigue. All tied up 1-1 after two periods. Impressed with Waszczenko in net for the Trojans.
Yeah it was Moon, he looked better than a lot of Edina guys last night. Might not be the most skilled but he was deserving of that spot last nightwarmskin wrote:So what happened in the 3rd period? The 1st line for Edina has not had the same right wing most of the season. Who was on the 1st line for Edina? Moon? How does a forward with 1 goal in 4 years on Edina varsity end up on the 1st line?ryguyMN wrote:Edina looked better in the second period. Wayzata started getting sloppy towards the end of the period with attacks being offside. Could be fatigue. All tied up 1-1 after two periods. Impressed with Waszczenko in net for the Trojans.
so who all will leave Edina before their senior year? All kinds of rumors floating around from players mentioned earlier. How will Giles take this early exit?green4 wrote:Yeah it was Moon, he looked better than a lot of Edina guys last night. Might not be the most skilled but he was deserving of that spot last nightwarmskin wrote:So what happened in the 3rd period? The 1st line for Edina has not had the same right wing most of the season. Who was on the 1st line for Edina? Moon? How does a forward with 1 goal in 4 years on Edina varsity end up on the 1st line?ryguyMN wrote:Edina looked better in the second period. Wayzata started getting sloppy towards the end of the period with attacks being offside. Could be fatigue. All tied up 1-1 after two periods. Impressed with Waszczenko in net for the Trojans.
Best goaltending I've seen at the high school level in awhile! Happy Edina finally got called for Embellishment. They're always crying to the refs for calls to be made. If anyone was at the Edina/SLP game last week you saw how the refs really fell for it. Glad they didn't this time! Love a game with less calls especially when the players are desperate for them! I truly thought Edina would have this one but we again learned to never underestimate the gritty, defensive wayzata! Besides, their goalie is fire hot. Go Trojans!
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Lake South Alum
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While I agree that there were high expectations for Wayzata at the beginning of the year, I do not believe it is fair (or accurate) to say that "Wayzata basically has last year's Championship team back with the exception of Sorenson"WestMetro wrote:
Lets remember, Wayzata basically has last year Championship team back with exception of Hank Sorenson. Plus added Mulrenhin. Several D1 returning commits, and Griffin Ness was a top Elite League scorer.
I believe that Wayzata graduated 7 of the 9 forwards that played on their top 3 lines during last year's State Tournament (i.e. Senden, Duma, Patterson, Greeninger, Batra, Riley and Nelson). That's a lot of offense that needed to be replaced.
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GoldenBear
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GoldenBear
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