USHL Draft

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue May 02, 2017 3:31 pm

http://www.ushl.com/draft

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Mon May 08, 2017 10:36 am

Kind of an off the wall question/discussion topic that is related to the USHL Draft because that is what made me think of this. I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't think that will be an issue since there has not been any discussion here yet.

I was recently up in North Dakota and driving through Fargo. Over the years I've been involved with youth teams that have played against teams from Moorhead, Fargo, Grand Forks, and East Grand Forks. The teams were always quality teams, tough competitors, from year to year one would be better than the other but, for the most part, I would say that they were close to the same competitive level.

So when I was driving through there, given the recent USHL Draft, a thought popped into my head, why do so many more kids from Moorhead seem to "advance" out of that town than from across the river in Fargo? Or maybe it just seems that way? Here you have kids from the same metro area and it just seems that the kids from the Minnesota side of the river move on. You would think that given the population advantage that Fargo has over Moorhead it would be just the opposite. In this most recent draft I counted 4 players from Moorhead that were drafted and none from Fargo. Bringing GF and EGF into the discussion, there was one player drafted out of GF and I know that there are, I believe, 3 local kids playing at UND right now. So I am really kind of wondering about Fargo, the biggest population center of the four and the one with the largest youth hockey system.

So I am just throwing it out there as a discussion topic, what could the reasons for this be? Is it exposure? Is it the a Minnesota Hockey system that identifies and promotes players at High Performance Camps, etc? Is it that Moorhead players emphasis and go all-in on hockey whereas Fargo kids gravitate towards other sports? Is it the coaching at the youth level in Fargo? I don't think that is it as I've seen some good players on Fargo teams.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? And I'm not wanting to flame or start some kind of border war thing here. I'm just seriously curious. Elliot, I should probably throw this question out to you as you know what goes on up north.

Maybe it's just one of those things that just is.

thespellchecker · Post by **thespellchecker** » Mon May 08, 2017 12:06 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:Kind of an off the wall question/discussion topic that is related to the USHL Draft because that is what made me think of this. I don't want to derail this thread, but I don't think that will be an issue since there has not been any discussion here yet.

I was recently up in North Dakota and driving through Fargo. Over the years I've been involved with youth teams that have played against teams from Moorhead, Fargo, Grand Forks, and East Grand Forks. The teams were always quality teams, tough competitors, from year to year one would be better than the other but, for the most part, I would say that they were close to the same competitive level.

So when I was driving through there, given the recent USHL Draft, a thought popped into my head, why do so many more kids from Moorhead seem to "advance" out of that town than from across the river in Fargo? Or maybe it just seems that way? Here you have kids from the same metro area and it just seems that the kids from the Minnesota side of the river move on. You would think that given the population advantage that Fargo has over Moorhead it would be just the opposite. In this most recent draft I counted 4 players from Moorhead that were drafted and none from Fargo. Bringing GF and EGF into the discussion, there was one player drafted out of GF and I know that there are, I believe, 3 local kids playing at UND right now. So I am really kind of wondering about Fargo, the biggest population center of the four and the one with the largest youth hockey system.

So I am just throwing it out there as a discussion topic, what could the reasons for this be? Is it exposure? Is it the a Minnesota Hockey system that identifies and promotes players at High Performance Camps, etc? Is it that Moorhead players emphasis and go all-in on hockey whereas Fargo kids gravitate towards other sports? Is it the coaching at the youth level in Fargo? I don't think that is it as I've seen some good players on Fargo teams.

Anybody have any thoughts on this? And I'm not wanting to flame or start some kind of border war thing here. I'm just seriously curious. Elliot, I should probably throw this question out to you as you know what goes on up north.

Maybe it's just one of those things that just is.

Perhaps some of those players of the Spuds fame originally were North Dakota youth players. Attending Moorhead allows them to play MN High School. Same may occur Grand Forks to EGF.

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Mon May 08, 2017 1:02 pm

Could be, except I was told by people in the EGF, GF, and Moorhead associations that kids do not cross the river. It's actually a matter of pride. No way you move across the river.

Anecdotal evidence, I know. Just what I was told.

Post by **karl(east)** » Mon May 08, 2017 9:33 pm

No idea how widespread it is, but there is at least some border-hopping. I recall this controversy from a few years back: http://www.ryansclark.com/eligibility-f ... 4585042455

I'd hazard to guess the gap in talent produced on either side of the Red River is a cultural and historical thing. Will be interesting to see if that changes over time, especially given Fargo's rapid growth.

Section 8 guy · Post by **Section 8 guy** » Tue May 09, 2017 3:37 am

I know all 4 programs well so I can take a stab at this. I don't think there is much of a difference between EGF and Gf.....differences there are mostly population based with Grand Forks being larger. Both do a great job of developing hockey players. Both are hockey towns.

The difference between Fargo and Moorhead is entirely the developmental models between the two programs. Moorhead does a much better job of emphasizing long run skill development and focusing on long term development.....which creates better hockey players at the end of the day. There is no comparison between the two. Moorhead places a huge emphasis on the ADM....and did so before the ADM was rolled out by USA Hockey. They've been using ADM concepts for 30 years or so. Fargo is focused on winning squirt games. The answer to your question is developmemt philosophies.....with a touch of coaching.

The large majority of Moorhead kids play multiple sports so it has nothing to do with specialization. My experience would tell me that more Fargo kids specialize in hockey than Moorhead kids. That aspect of this years succesful Spud high school team was well documented with 17 of the 20 kids on the playoff roster playing multiple sports and 12 of them having played in a state tournament in a sport other than hockey.

There are very few high school hockey players over time that have moved from Fargo to Moorhead. I'm pretty sure you could count them on less than one full hand.

Fargo is also primarily a football town due to the presence of the Bison.....but iFargo still has more youth hockey players than Moorhead does.

SCBlueLiner · Post by **SCBlueLiner** » Tue May 09, 2017 9:30 am

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. I welcome any other input.

The reason I ask these questions is because I am always searching for ideas and philosophies that make programs successful. Looking at the Fargo/Moorhead area, you have an area that is kind of isolated out west, with only a river separating the two towns. Kids growing up in the same metro area, they really shouldn't be that different, so it makes for an excellent case study.

RRubberbeeskit · Post by **RRubberbeeskit** » Tue May 09, 2017 5:43 pm

SCBlueLiner wrote:That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. I welcome any other input.

The reason I ask these questions is because I am always searching for ideas and philosophies that make programs successful. Looking at the Fargo/Moorhead area, you have an area that is kind of isolated out west, with only a river separating the two towns. Kids growing up in the same metro area, they really shouldn't be that different, so it makes for an excellent case study.

My personal opinion is that once the Moorhead players are roughly in that bantam level they're playing AA bantams in Minnesota and typically are playing nearly every weekend against AA teams around the Twin Cities. They are geared to play a much higher level of competition then the North Dakota teams in general. It will be a little while yet before the Fargo teams become power houses again in North Dakota due to splitting up enrollments into new high schools in the west Fargo area and Fargo South area . No disrespect here intended two of my nephews played hockey in Fargo.This high level of competition continues on once the players reach the high school level in Moorhead. They continue playing against the Minnesota Twin Cities metro teams along with playing other high caliber out state teams. I would compare a number of the Fargo teams with many class A Minnesota teams when it comes to the level of play. Once again no disrespect whatsoever intended toward any North Dakota teams.