Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
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Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
I follow HS and Youth hockey pretty closely and I always see Osseo/Maple Grove at the top (or at least top 10) at every level of youth hockey. And I mean every level from AA to B at Bantams and Pee Wees. If I am not mistaken they have been up there for a at least a few years now.
Now Maple Grove has posted a few good teams in the last 10 years and certainly are a good program, meanwhile Osseo was 1-25 last season.
So... to reiterate the question, where are all these kids going? Are they all going to Maple Grove and underperforming?
Do enough of them split up at high school to keep the success moderate?
Or are there Private School poachers taking the talent?
Or all of the above?
Does anyone on the board have some insight, because it looks like they have enough talent in that system to support two pretty good programs.
Now Maple Grove has posted a few good teams in the last 10 years and certainly are a good program, meanwhile Osseo was 1-25 last season.
So... to reiterate the question, where are all these kids going? Are they all going to Maple Grove and underperforming?
Do enough of them split up at high school to keep the success moderate?
Or are there Private School poachers taking the talent?
Or all of the above?
Does anyone on the board have some insight, because it looks like they have enough talent in that system to support two pretty good programs.
Re: Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
I’ve always wondered that too. For the last 5-6 years, they are a top program at every level it seems. I was talking to Bloomington Jefferson coaches/parents at the beginning of the hockey season. Privates in the metro sucks in a lot of the high end talent in the metro - they told me.
Re: Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
Which private school is closest to the Maple Grove school district that is high profile enough to draw a decent OMGR player away from their local HS?kniven wrote:I’ve always wondered that too. For the last 5-6 years, they are a top program at every level it seems. I was talking to Bloomington Jefferson coaches/parents at the beginning of the hockey season. Privates in the metro sucks in a lot of the high end talent in the metro - they told me.
Maple Grove has not lost many players to private schools. The majority of the top players have stayed (almost all) at Maple Grove. Obviously they just have not done a good job developing their players. One thing I notice at the bantam level is the play to win at all costs mentality regarding playing time for players not on top 2 lines.
I think a key difference between Osseo and Maple Grove has to do with demographics. The city of Osseo area and population wise is tiny. Osseo high school has kids from Maple Grove, but it also takes a lot of kids from Brooklyn Park. The Maple Grove high school takes kids from Dayton, Rogers, Corcoran and of course Maple Grove. Look at the demographics of those cities vs. Brooklyn Park and Osseo and that would be why I think you are seeing Osseo struggle in hockey.
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
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You are probably right green but I understand the op's question too. If it is demographics you wouldn't think they would be so good at the pee wee and bantam levels.green4 wrote:I think a key difference between Osseo and Maple Grove has to do with demographics. The city of Osseo area and population wise is tiny. Osseo high school has kids from Maple Grove, but it also takes a lot of kids from Brooklyn Park. The Maple Grove high school takes kids from Dayton, Rogers, Corcoran and of course Maple Grove. Look at the demographics of those cities vs. Brooklyn Park and Osseo and that would be why I think you are seeing Osseo struggle in hockey.
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
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Re: Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
Totino-Grace? Used to be high profile, anyway.LSQRANK wrote:Which private school is closest to the Maple Grove school district that is high profile enough to draw a decent OMGR player away from their local HS?kniven wrote:I’ve always wondered that too. For the last 5-6 years, they are a top program at every level it seems. I was talking to Bloomington Jefferson coaches/parents at the beginning of the hockey season. Privates in the metro sucks in a lot of the high end talent in the metro - they told me.
Lee
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Their youth numbers are off the charts. You can expect 1-2 top end kids every year to bail for greener pastures but with over 100 kids in each age group trying out, someone will be there to pick up the slack
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
I'm not saying MG does all of these, their parents can answer that question better than we can.
MG did a very smart thing a couple years back by going to two squirt A teams (something Edina has done for years). This will pay off. I do think Maple Grove needs to break it off with Osseo and have it's own identity. Long term it will strength their community and kids will feel more loyalty playing for their town
The other thing I'd like to see MG do is force the City to reduce the size of their Olympic sheet of ice. Kids need small spaces to develop. Not bigger ice
A strong board leadership can help programs like this stay on the right path. Personally I like what I see. Whenever I watch their games whether it's a squirt game or a bantam, they can all skate, they can all move the puck and they all seem to enjoy playing the game. They will compete for a state title or two very soon. I just can't see any good reasons why they won't
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
I'm not saying MG does all of these, their parents can answer that question better than we can.
MG did a very smart thing a couple years back by going to two squirt A teams (something Edina has done for years). This will pay off. I do think Maple Grove needs to break it off with Osseo and have it's own identity. Long term it will strength their community and kids will feel more loyalty playing for their town
The other thing I'd like to see MG do is force the City to reduce the size of their Olympic sheet of ice. Kids need small spaces to develop. Not bigger ice
A strong board leadership can help programs like this stay on the right path. Personally I like what I see. Whenever I watch their games whether it's a squirt game or a bantam, they can all skate, they can all move the puck and they all seem to enjoy playing the game. They will compete for a state title or two very soon. I just can't see any good reasons why they won't
Well they are combined at the youth level. You have young affluent communities like Maple Grove and the cities farther Northwest combined with these older first ring suburbs like Brooklyn Park. There is plenty of talent in Maple Grove, that is why I think they underperform a bit at high school, but then in youth you add a few talented players from Osseo or Brooklyn Park and that is why they are good.grindiangrad-80 wrote:You are probably right green but I understand the op's question too. If it is demographics you wouldn't think they would be so good at the pee wee and bantam levels.green4 wrote:I think a key difference between Osseo and Maple Grove has to do with demographics. The city of Osseo area and population wise is tiny. Osseo high school has kids from Maple Grove, but it also takes a lot of kids from Brooklyn Park. The Maple Grove high school takes kids from Dayton, Rogers, Corcoran and of course Maple Grove. Look at the demographics of those cities vs. Brooklyn Park and Osseo and that would be why I think you are seeing Osseo struggle in hockey.
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
Once you split the youth team up into two groups that is when they struggle. I don't think that system of splitting a youth group in two works very well, so maybe that is part of the problem too. I would imagine they combine their youth teams because Osseo might have a hard time fielding teams on their own.
Never going to happen. MG needs those two sheets of ice at Osseo. OMGHA have four sheets now and it's nowhere near enough. OMGHA gets a alot of ice at Brooklyn Park and this year started getting ice at Mariucci and Ridder.yesiplayedhockey wrote: 4. Playing way to many gam I do think Maple Grove needs to break it off with Osseo and have it's own identity. Long term it will strength their community and kids will feel more loyalty playing for their town
Maple Grove voted down a third indoor rink last year. Now they are working on getting a third sheet at Osseo.
Same issue Roseville had back in the 70's and 80's. Youth teams used to dominate, but then the kids got split up into 2 high schools, Kellogg and Ramsey, and never did much. Heck, you could add HM in there as well, because they always got a quality player or two from the Roseville area.green4 wrote:Well they are combined at the youth level. You have young affluent communities like Maple Grove and the cities farther Northwest combined with these older first ring suburbs like Brooklyn Park. There is plenty of talent in Maple Grove, that is why I think they underperform a bit at high school, but then in youth you add a few talented players from Osseo or Brooklyn Park and that is why they are good.grindiangrad-80 wrote:You are probably right green but I understand the op's question too. If it is demographics you wouldn't think they would be so good at the pee wee and bantam levels.green4 wrote:I think a key difference between Osseo and Maple Grove has to do with demographics. The city of Osseo area and population wise is tiny. Osseo high school has kids from Maple Grove, but it also takes a lot of kids from Brooklyn Park. The Maple Grove high school takes kids from Dayton, Rogers, Corcoran and of course Maple Grove. Look at the demographics of those cities vs. Brooklyn Park and Osseo and that would be why I think you are seeing Osseo struggle in hockey.
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
Once you split the youth team up into two groups that is when they struggle. I don't think that system of splitting a youth group in two works very well, so maybe that is part of the problem too. I would imagine they combine their youth teams because Osseo might have a hard time fielding teams on their own.
In all seriousness - you really get it about youth hockey and hope you are involved in youth hockey in some capacity - coaching, board, etc. Good stuff.yesiplayedhockey wrote:Their youth numbers are off the charts. You can expect 1-2 top end kids every year to bail for greener pastures but with over 100 kids in each age group trying out, someone will be there to pick up the slack
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
I'm not saying MG does all of these, their parents can answer that question better than we can.
MG did a very smart thing a couple years back by going to two squirt A teams (something Edina has done for years). This will pay off. I do think Maple Grove needs to break it off with Osseo and have it's own identity. Long term it will strength their community and kids will feel more loyalty playing for their town
The other thing I'd like to see MG do is force the City to reduce the size of their Olympic sheet of ice. Kids need small spaces to develop. Not bigger ice
A strong board leadership can help programs like this stay on the right path. Personally I like what I see. Whenever I watch their games whether it's a squirt game or a bantam, they can all skate, they can all move the puck and they all seem to enjoy playing the game. They will compete for a state title or two very soon. I just can't see any good reasons why they won't
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Didn't OMGHA have a dustup within the last two years where the MG side wanted to break off from the Osseo side and the Osseo kids would have ended up at North Metro? Seem to recall the reason it didn't happen was a lack of ice in MG.
I spoke with a MG player who left there a few years ago to play Tier 1, Omaha, I believe. I asked him why he would leave MG, if you are good player in the Metro there will be opportunities, was my reasoning. He said it isn't all it appears to be, coaching and development was really lacking. Leaving was the best option for him and he was glad he did it.
Solid Bantam squad from OMGHA this year. Will be interested to see how they progress through the years.
I spoke with a MG player who left there a few years ago to play Tier 1, Omaha, I believe. I asked him why he would leave MG, if you are good player in the Metro there will be opportunities, was my reasoning. He said it isn't all it appears to be, coaching and development was really lacking. Leaving was the best option for him and he was glad he did it.
Solid Bantam squad from OMGHA this year. Will be interested to see how they progress through the years.
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Nailed it. This is happening now in an Eastern Suburb.yesiplayedhockey wrote:Their youth numbers are off the charts. You can expect 1-2 top end kids every year to bail for greener pastures but with over 100 kids in each age group trying out, someone will be there to pick up the slack
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
t
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You are correct about MG wanting to separate from Osseo a few years back and the main reason why it didn’t happen. In fact, at the school district level you could go back years ago and there were numerous discussions about breaking the district in half between the Brooklyn Park (Park Center) and Osseo sides, well before Maple Grove HS even existed.SCBlueLiner wrote:Didn't OMGHA have a dustup within the last two years where the MG side wanted to break off from the Osseo side and the Osseo kids would have ended up at North Metro? Seem to recall the reason it didn't happen was a lack of ice in MG.
I spoke with a MG player who left there a few years ago to play Tier 1, Omaha, I believe. I asked him why he would leave MG, if you are good player in the Metro there will be opportunities, was my reasoning. He said it isn't all it appears to be, coaching and development was really lacking. Leaving was the best option for him and he was glad he did it.
Solid Bantam squad from OMGHA this year. Will be interested to see how they progress through the years.
I still think it was a mistake for MG to fire their former head coach, Gary Stefano, who basically was the fall guy for off ice indiscretions. He was an outstanding coach and basically put the program on the map from scratch. I have also heard from friends who have kids at MGHS that it is a rather toxic atmosphere in general at the school, particularly in terms of wealth disparities.
Re: Osseo/Maple Grove - What Happens at High School
TG mainly had a recruiting base in the nearby northern suburbs like Brooklyn Park, New Brighton, Mounds View, Spring Lake Park, etc. The drop off in youth talent from those areas over the past decade has coincided with TG’s own downturn. I know that the current TG roster has several kids from Rogers, due to family connections and/or the weak Rogers HS program.east hockey wrote:Totino-Grace? Used to be high profile, anyway.LSQRANK wrote:Which private school is closest to the Maple Grove school district that is high profile enough to draw a decent OMGR player away from their local HS?kniven wrote:I’ve always wondered that too. For the last 5-6 years, they are a top program at every level it seems. I was talking to Bloomington Jefferson coaches/parents at the beginning of the hockey season. Privates in the metro sucks in a lot of the high end talent in the metro - they told me.
Lee
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That makes sense.green4 wrote:Well they are combined at the youth level. You have young affluent communities like Maple Grove and the cities farther Northwest combined with these older first ring suburbs like Brooklyn Park. There is plenty of talent in Maple Grove, that is why I think they underperform a bit at high school, but then in youth you add a few talented players from Osseo or Brooklyn Park and that is why they are good.grindiangrad-80 wrote:You are probably right green but I understand the op's question too. If it is demographics you wouldn't think they would be so good at the pee wee and bantam levels.green4 wrote:I think a key difference between Osseo and Maple Grove has to do with demographics. The city of Osseo area and population wise is tiny. Osseo high school has kids from Maple Grove, but it also takes a lot of kids from Brooklyn Park. The Maple Grove high school takes kids from Dayton, Rogers, Corcoran and of course Maple Grove. Look at the demographics of those cities vs. Brooklyn Park and Osseo and that would be why I think you are seeing Osseo struggle in hockey.
I think Maple Grove has had some nice teams, but they seem to underperform compared to the hype you hear coming in. I know they lost that one kid to the US development team, Janicke?
Once you split the youth team up into two groups that is when they struggle. I don't think that system of splitting a youth group in two works very well, so maybe that is part of the problem too. I would imagine they combine their youth teams because Osseo might have a hard time fielding teams on their own.
Nothing against Stefano, he did a good job in their early years, but Bergland has got them to a section final as the 4 seed & a State Tourney as the 2 seed. They are young this year, but next year will be the favorite to win the Section. And wealth disparities are present at most of the large suburban schools, I don’t see MG as being all that much different in that regard. And the kid SC Blueliner is referring to who left for Omaha AAA for development purposes?..LOL Pretty sure I know who he isn’t talking about...and I doubt the other MG players missed him much when he left 😉Stang5280 wrote:You are correct about MG wanting to separate from Osseo a few years back and the main reason why it didn’t happen. In fact, at the school district level you could go back years ago and there were numerous discussions about breaking the district in half between the Brooklyn Park (Park Center) and Osseo sides, well before Maple Grove HS even existed.SCBlueLiner wrote:Didn't OMGHA have a dustup within the last two years where the MG side wanted to break off from the Osseo side and the Osseo kids would have ended up at North Metro? Seem to recall the reason it didn't happen was a lack of ice in MG.
I spoke with a MG player who left there a few years ago to play Tier 1, Omaha, I believe. I asked him why he would leave MG, if you are good player in the Metro there will be opportunities, was my reasoning. He said it isn't all it appears to be, coaching and development was really lacking. Leaving was the best option for him and he was glad he did it.
Solid Bantam squad from OMGHA this year. Will be interested to see how they progress through the years.
I still think it was a mistake for MG to fire their former head coach, Gary Stefano, who basically was the fall guy for off ice indiscretions. He was an outstanding coach and basically put the program on the map from scratch. I have also heard from friends who have kids at MGHS that it is a rather toxic atmosphere in general at the school, particularly in terms of wealth disparities.
Last edited by hockey59 on Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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This = most kids not having fun playing. And you see it all over the country in all sports. Some parents make excellent coaches and I believe that most of the others mean well. I just think there is a little too much parent involvement often times. Probably not an easy solution to it.tourneytickssince59 wrote:Nailed it. This is happening now in an Eastern Suburb.yesiplayedhockey wrote:Their youth numbers are off the charts. You can expect 1-2 top end kids every year to bail for greener pastures but with over 100 kids in each age group trying out, someone will be there to pick up the slack
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
t
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You are right. I've seen it work both ways in regards to parent coaches
Sometimes they behave correctly yet often they are only there for their kid.
On the flip side. Sometimes a 25 year old coach with a big heart and a chiseled smile has no clue how to motivate/manage 9 year old kids because he's never had kids. He yells at them when he should be putting his arms around them. He doesn't have a vested interest in the program so he shows up minutes before practice with little thought into what they will be doing that hour.
There is no right answer. You interview all and pick the most qualified person for the job. You have a strong board that has policies and expectations in place /documented to manage it. In general, I'd say absolutely no parent coaches at the higher end bantam level. I think parent coaches at the squirt and pee wee level is acceptable but again it has to be managed correctly and it definitely needs to be monitored.
Sometimes they behave correctly yet often they are only there for their kid.
On the flip side. Sometimes a 25 year old coach with a big heart and a chiseled smile has no clue how to motivate/manage 9 year old kids because he's never had kids. He yells at them when he should be putting his arms around them. He doesn't have a vested interest in the program so he shows up minutes before practice with little thought into what they will be doing that hour.
There is no right answer. You interview all and pick the most qualified person for the job. You have a strong board that has policies and expectations in place /documented to manage it. In general, I'd say absolutely no parent coaches at the higher end bantam level. I think parent coaches at the squirt and pee wee level is acceptable but again it has to be managed correctly and it definitely needs to be monitored.
grindiangrad-80 wrote:This = most kids not having fun playing. And you see it all over the country in all sports. Some parents make excellent coaches and I believe that most of the others mean well. I just think there is a little too much parent involvement often times. Probably not an easy solution to it.tourneytickssince59 wrote:Nailed it. This is happening now in an Eastern Suburb.yesiplayedhockey wrote:Their youth numbers are off the charts. You can expect 1-2 top end kids every year to bail for greener pastures but with over 100 kids in each age group trying out, someone will be there to pick up the slack
Every large school that "under performs" usually does so for similar reasons.
1. Focus on winning way to early (by doing things like having a PP and PK in squirts and pee wees)
2. Focus on having set 1st, 2nd and 3rd line in Squirts and pee wees
3. Giving kids "roles" way to early (Squirt 3rd line- You're job is to dump and chase)
4. Playing way to many games/tournaments and not practicing nearly enough
t
Stefano was ousted in 2013, so I would say that is more than a few years ago at this point. With the exception of last year’ state tournament run, MG has been extremely mediocre during Bergland’s tenure (.500 or below in two of his four years). I wouldn’t exactly say that a section final run as a four seed is a great accomplishment, either. MG had one upset win over Blaine in the semis, and then were promptly spanked by Anoka. And the two section wins merely brought them to .500 for the season. That’s not exactly a successful campaign for a team with that much talent.hockey59 wrote:Nothing against Stefano, he did a good job in their early years, but Bergland has got them to a section final as the 4 seed & a State Tourney as the 2 seed. They are young this year, but next year will be the favorite to win the Section. And wealth disparities are present at most of the large suburban schools, I don’t see MG as being all that much different in that regard. And the kid SC Blueliner is referring to who left for Omaha AAA for development purposes?..LOL Pretty sure I know who he isn’t talking about...and I doubt the other MG players missed him much when he left 😉Stang5280 wrote:You are correct about MG wanting to separate from Osseo a few years back and the main reason why it didn’t happen. In fact, at the school district level you could go back years ago and there were numerous discussions about breaking the district in half between the Brooklyn Park (Park Center) and Osseo sides, well before Maple Grove HS even existed.SCBlueLiner wrote:Didn't OMGHA have a dustup within the last two years where the MG side wanted to break off from the Osseo side and the Osseo kids would have ended up at North Metro? Seem to recall the reason it didn't happen was a lack of ice in MG.
I spoke with a MG player who left there a few years ago to play Tier 1, Omaha, I believe. I asked him why he would leave MG, if you are good player in the Metro there will be opportunities, was my reasoning. He said it isn't all it appears to be, coaching and development was really lacking. Leaving was the best option for him and he was glad he did it.
Solid Bantam squad from OMGHA this year. Will be interested to see how they progress through the years.
I still think it was a mistake for MG to fire their former head coach, Gary Stefano, who basically was the fall guy for off ice indiscretions. He was an outstanding coach and basically put the program on the map from scratch. I have also heard from friends who have kids at MGHS that it is a rather toxic atmosphere in general at the school, particularly in terms of wealth disparities.