MN Junior Hockey pecking order....

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kniven
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MN Junior Hockey pecking order....

Post by kniven » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:57 pm

......Is there a current pecking order of junior hockey teams in Minnesota as far as overall success?

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:05 am

Free-to-play is better than P2P and at Tier III I've always just gone off My Hockey.
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SCBlueLiner
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Re: MN Junior Hockey pecking order....

Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:10 pm

kniven wrote:......Is there a current pecking order of junior hockey teams in Minnesota as far as overall success?
Look at the NAHL standings from the last several years, I suppose. The other measure of success is player advancement. I would put them in this order, personally.

Austin Bruins
Minnesota Wilderness (Cloquet)
Minnesota Magicians (Richfield)

Tier 3 teams in no particular order:

Granite City Lumberjacks
New Ulm Steel
Alexandria Blizzard
Willmar WarHawks
Breezy Point Northstars
Rochester IceHawks

I don't know much about these Tier 3 programs other than the NA3HL has sent a handful of players on to D3 and ACHA hockey.

I do know the Austin Bruins just bought the Tier 3 team in Rochester (IceHawks) and are rebranding as the Rochester Grizzlies. I've heard some info floating around as to what ownership wants to do with this team. First thing they did was clean house. Sounds like they intend to make it a legitimate path towards making an NAHL team (the Bruins being the obvious benefactors of this pipeline).

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:34 pm

Blueliner, the top couple USPHL teams deserve mention too. Blue Ox & Moose are stronger than some of the NA3 teams.

Tier III is very confusing. So many leagues.
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SCBlueLiner
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Post by SCBlueLiner » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:56 pm

Yep, I didn't even mention the USPHL teams. In no particular order.

Hudson (WI) Havoc (border city, I'll include them)
Minnesota Blue Ox (Coon Rapids)
Minnesota Moose (Blaine)
Minnesota Mullets (Forest Lake)
Steele County Blades (Owatonna)

kniven
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Re: MN Junior Hockey pecking order....

Post by kniven » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:32 am

Good stuff! Thanks boys.........

BSUBeaver
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Post by BSUBeaver » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:53 am

You also have the Superior International Junior Hockey League with the Minnesota Iron Rangers and Theif River Falls Norskies. The league falls under the Canadian Junior Hockey League umbrella.

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Post by O-townClown » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:02 am

BSUBeaver wrote:You also have the Superior International Junior Hockey League with the Minnesota Iron Rangers and Theif River Falls Norskies. The league falls under the Canadian Junior Hockey League umbrella.
Isn't that covered under the free-to-play I mentioned? If it is what I think it is that should be a peg above any of the P2P.

Norskies get to play in the Ralph Engelstad. Extremely nice and I'm told they draw a solid crowd.
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Net Presence
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Post by Net Presence » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:41 am

O-townClown wrote:
BSUBeaver wrote:You also have the Superior International Junior Hockey League with the Minnesota Iron Rangers and Theif River Falls Norskies. The league falls under the Canadian Junior Hockey League umbrella.
Isn't that covered under the free-to-play I mentioned? If it is what I think it is that should be a peg above any of the P2P.

Norskies get to play in the Ralph Engelstad. Extremely nice and I'm told they draw a solid crowd.
I can offer a little more info regarding the SIJHL as I have an official connection to the league and want to make sure any information offered is accurate. First, as stated, it is a Tier II Junior A league that's part of the CJHL (Canadien Junior Hockey League) which oversees all of the non-Major Junior leagues -- Tier II or Jr. B) in Canada. However, most (if not all) of the SIJHL teams now actually do charge players to play above and beyond room and board. The minimum is $750 and the maximum is $4500. And, not only do all of the SIJHL teams now charge players but, due to the financial realities in many of the smaller communities that host Tier II Junior teams in Canada, many others in other leagues are beginning to do so as well.

As for the level of play, out of the 132 Tier II Junior "A" teams nationwide, the Thief River Falls Norskies were rated number one in the CJHL's weekly national poll for 5 weeks in a row between Oct. 16th and Nov. 13th. They spent the next four weeks at number 2 before spending two more weeks at number 1 and, then stayed in the top 10 thru the end of Feburary and are still in the top 20. The Dryden Ice Dogs finished the regular season in first place and were also in the top 20 nationwide most of this season. Every team with the exception of the Hoyt Lakes franchise would be competitive in the top half of the NAHL. In fact, in 2012-13, the former SIJHL Spooner Wilderness moved to Cloquet and reached the RBC Cup (CJHL National Tourney) where they lost in one of the semi-final games before switching over to the NAHL the following season.

Although the league hasn’t graduated many players to Div. I college recently – I believe the last was Gordy Defiel who played for two years for the Wilderness before spending his last year of junior in the BCHL and then moving on to Lake Superior St. University (LSSU) where he was the starting goalie until he graduated last year -- there have been a number who many involved with the league believe should have and, who were strongly considered. Unfortunately, those schools looking chose not to pull the trigger on an offer. However, the league has always graduated a large number of kids to NCAA Div. III, including three players from the Hoyt Lakes franchise that just helped St. Norbert’s College win the NCAA Div. III National Title in Lake Placid a couple weeks ago.

Unfortunately, one of the challenges of this league is the limited number of teams as it’s having an effect on the ability of the teams to recruit players as some players are a little leery of playing in a league with so few teams. However, I have good knowledge that there is a very strong probability that the league will expand by at least one or two teams within two years (including possibly one next year) and possibly by 4 teams in the next 2 to 4 years, including a strong chance of another U.S. based team or possibly two in that time frame. Let me close by saying that if anyone reading this has a player that they feel could possibly play at this level, I strongly encourage them to contact either or both of the head coaches of the two U.S. based teams. The Hoyt Lakes Iron Rangers’ Head Coach and GM is Todd Kreibich and his email is: tkreibich@msn.com. The Thief River Falls Norskies Head Coach is Cole Workman and his email is: colerworkman@gmail.com. Thanks and I hope this info has been helpful.

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:48 pm

O-townClown wrote:
BSUBeaver wrote:You also have the Superior International Junior Hockey League with the Minnesota Iron Rangers and Theif River Falls Norskies. The league falls under the Canadian Junior Hockey League umbrella.
Isn't that covered under the free-to-play I mentioned? If it is what I think it is that should be a peg above any of the P2P.

Norskies get to play in the Ralph Engelstad. Extremely nice and I'm told they draw a solid crowd.
You were told wrong. And it's pay to play :)

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:53 pm

Net Presence, ZEI:

Thanks! SIJHL isn't what I thought it was then.

A friend's son was BCHL and then traded to Brooks in the Alberta league. They won the provincial, won the western region, and then won the national Junior A tournament. One level down from Major Junior. I thought it was 10 leagues and about 165 teams.

If SIJHL is one of those leagues and these are two of the teams I was way off to think the entire level was Free-to-Play.

If SIJHL is a level down from it then Canada too has a P2P layer I don't know anything about.

Either way I stand corrected! Thanks!

I know for what I usually call "provincial" Junior (maintain NCAA eligibility) the BCHL and Alberta are great. I think there's an equivalent in Ontario. I do know some of the provinces aren't regarded as highly.

Tons of NCAA Div I kids come from British Columbia and Alberta.
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Net Presence
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Post by Net Presence » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:57 pm

O-townClown wrote:Net Presence, ZEI:

Thanks! SIJHL isn't what I thought it was then.

A friend's son was BCHL and then traded to Brooks in the Alberta league. They won the provincial, won the western region, and then won the national Junior A tournament. One level down from Major Junior. I thought it was 10 leagues and about 165 teams.

If SIJHL is one of those leagues and these are two of the teams I was way off to think the entire level was Free-to-Play.

If SIJHL is a level down from it then Canada too has a P2P layer I don't know anything about.

Either way I stand corrected! Thanks!

I know for what I usually call "provincial" Junior (maintain NCAA eligibility) the BCHL and Alberta are great. I think there's an equivalent in Ontario. I do know some of the provinces aren't regarded as highly.

Tons of NCAA Div I kids come from British Columbia and Alberta.
O-town — no doubt that the BCHL and AJHL have better reps than the SIJHL from the standpoint of producing Div. I Players. I added the info regarding this season’s rankings to illustrate that the SI’s top two teams compare favorably with any from the other leagues. And no, there isn’t a different level or tier of Junior A in Canada that’s P2P vs not. The SIJHL is considered the exact same level as the BC or AJ, it’s just that they charge their players above and beyond room and board to play. And again,there are other leagues within that level that do so as well.

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:31 pm

Last I heard Norskies charged $3k plus not including billet fees.
But that was last year.
Manitoba league used to be no charge, but I believe they went p2p recently too ?

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:24 am

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:Last I heard Norskies charged $3k plus not including billet fees.
Thanks. Very cheap compared to P2P teams in the American leagues. Sounds like a hybrid pricing where a portion comes from players and a portion comes from attendance.
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Net Presence
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Post by Net Presence » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:34 am

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:Last I heard Norskies charged $3k plus not including billet fees.
But that was last year.
Manitoba league used to be no charge, but I believe they went p2p recently too ?

Zam -- Norskies are currently charging $4500 + $350/month for billeting. Did find out what the situation is with the other CJHL leagues -- this info comes from the SIJHL commissioner so, I consider it very accurate. Everybody but the Alberta and Saskatchewan leagues are now charging something above the standard billeting fees. The BCHL's are apparently tied to / deemed "equipment fees" -- don't know the actual number. The Manitoba league started charging $500 per player which goes to the league. Not sure if that gets redistributed back to each team or not. The rest of the leagues all charge between $1000 - $6000 per player.

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:04 am

Net Presence wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:Last I heard Norskies charged $3k plus not including billet fees.
But that was last year.
Manitoba league used to be no charge, but I believe they went p2p recently too ?

Zam -- Norskies are currently charging $4500 + $350/month for billeting. Did find out what the situation is with the other CJHL leagues -- this info comes from the SIJHL commissioner so, I consider it very accurate. Everybody but the Alberta and Saskatchewan leagues are now charging something above the standard billeting fees. The BCHL's are apparently tied to / deemed "equipment fees" -- don't know the actual number. The Manitoba league started charging $500 per player which goes to the league. Not sure if that gets redistributed back to each team or not. The rest of the leagues all charge between $1000 - $6000 per player.
Appreciate it Net. Here's a question for you; the last few years I've noticed a slowly growing presence of USHL players going into D3 ranks in the MIAC, WIAC, and other Wisconsin leagues.

I wonder if that may affect leagues such as the CJHL etc. in the future in terms of advancing players ?

zamboniexhaustinhaler
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Post by zamboniexhaustinhaler » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:06 am

O-townClown wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:Last I heard Norskies charged $3k plus not including billet fees.
Thanks. Very cheap compared to P2P teams in the American leagues. Sounds like a hybrid pricing where a portion comes from players and a portion comes from attendance.
Don't know but I bet you're right.

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