STMA

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Goose21
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 3:31 pm

Post by Goose21 » Fri May 11, 2018 9:11 pm

kniven wrote:
ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:STMA joining the Lake conference, it has been agreed upon.
Maple Grove would like to join the Lake also I'm sure but admin won't let them split from from Osseo and PC.
I'm guessing since most team's schedules are already finished or mostly finished they will not be starting the conference schedule until 2019/2020?
Moorhead ‘s rein of terror is over. STMA is the new boss in 8AA- long term.
I think you need to hold the reins on that comment.

While certainly a quality program, recent results do not suggest a "reign of terror" if the state tournament is an indication of success:

2018 STMA
2017 Moorhead
2016 Bemidji
2015 Bemidji
2014 Roseau

However, the Spuds should be favorites in 8AA over the next few years.
Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheck

goldy313
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Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 6:56 pm

Post by goldy313 » Sat May 12, 2018 6:52 am

This will be lost on most people but anywhere south of I94 in the 7-10 county metro area the price of a bushel acre of corn determines whether you are a 300k per house housing development or a farm. Right now you are a probably a housing development. But these things are cyclical.....

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 3:44 pm

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Sun May 13, 2018 4:39 am

Goose21 wrote:
kniven wrote:
ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:STMA joining the Lake conference, it has been agreed upon.
Maple Grove would like to join the Lake also I'm sure but admin won't let them split from from Osseo and PC.
I'm guessing since most team's schedules are already finished or mostly finished they will not be starting the conference schedule until 2019/2020?
Moorhead ‘s rein of terror is over. STMA is the new boss in 8AA- long term.
I think you need to hold the reins on that comment.

While certainly a quality program, recent results do not suggest a "reign of terror" if the state tournament is an indication of success:

2018 STMA
2017 Moorhead
2016 Bemidji
2015 Bemidji
2014 Roseau

However, the Spuds should be favorites in 8AA over the next few years.
100% agreed. You never know what will happen, but Moorhead will be much better on paper than STMA next year and probably a couple more to come.

Section 8 guy
Posts: 313
Joined: Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:04 am

Post by Section 8 guy » Mon May 14, 2018 6:00 am

Moorheads PeeWees finished 3rd in the PeeWee AA state tournament this year and I believe I read that both of their Squirt A and Squirt B teams played in the championship game of the Squirt International in Fargo. Not sure about STMA at those levels.

karl(east)
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Contact:

Post by karl(east) » Tue May 15, 2018 1:58 am

alcloseshaver wrote:
karl(east) wrote:
MNHockeyFan wrote:
kniven wrote:STMA hockey is going to be huge, or is huge already. The next "superpower" in AA Minnesota State High School Hockey.
While the population growth in that area is bordering on explosive, with lots of new young families building homes and moving in, most of the residences you see going up are of the "no frills" variety. Not necessarily 'tract homes', but most of what you see do not shout "wealthy, we can not only afford our home but we also have lots of money to put our kids in expensive off-season travel teams and training, no matter what the cost".

Then again, perhaps the sheer number of growing young families in the exurbs is the key, and they will find ways to spend what it takes to make their kids competitive with the likes of established programs like Edina, Wayzata, EP, the top privates, etc.
I think this is a key point. History shows pretty clearly that as student populations grow and new suburbs develop, the hockey programs surge. It's quite likely that STMA will continue to be good as it continues to grow, and for some time thereafter. The programs that can sustain themselves beyond the population surge, though, are the ones who are wealthy enough that they won't lose their allure when the housing stock starts to show a little age. (Having a lot of homes on lakes, rivers, and golf courses also helps here.) That's why places like Richfield and the Brooklyns surged and had their moments, but then declined (sometimes into nonexistence) while the likes of Minnetonka and White Bear Lake have stayed relevant. It's not a perfect process, of course, but the broad brush trends aren't hard to see.
Elk River has a couple rivers but is typically a blue collar bedroom community that has maintained a high level of success for close to 30 years. Will have to work hard to sustain it but not a bad run.
This is true, though as you say, there are rivers, and it's a comparatively high-income blue collar community (certainly when compared to, say, Hibbing). But yes, the Elks are among the closer things to an exception to the trend out there.

Stang5280
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by Stang5280 » Tue May 15, 2018 6:28 pm

Before anointing STMA as the new hawtness and presumptive kings of 8AA, one can simply look at this season’s roster and see they are likely headed for a downturn over the next few years. Aside from the two super sophomores in Flammang and Laylin (admittedly two huge building blocks), STMA graduates nearly every player of consequence. The Knights had 12 double digit scorers, who break down as follows by class: eight seniors, one junior, and three sophomores. The top goalie, who started all but one game, also graduates.

That leaves some serious shoes to fill. I don’t know if there is much talent on the JV level, but the Bantam AA team was mediocre and is unlikely to provide much immediate help. It seems more likely that STMA will fall back to the middle of the pack in their section rather than contest for another state tournament birth.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Tue May 15, 2018 10:46 pm

As a future member of the Lake conference after this year maybe STMA will be moved out of 8AA.

victor maitland
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:49 pm

Post by victor maitland » Wed May 16, 2018 5:33 pm

[quote="alcloseshaver"]STMA joining the Lake conference, it has been agreed upon.
Maple Grove would like to join the Lake also I'm sure but admin won't let them split from from Osseo and PC.[/quote]

That is correct. According to the folks at the district they like their natural rivalries in PC and Osseo. I call garbage, schedule them in non-conference.

Stang5280
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Post by Stang5280 » Wed May 16, 2018 5:52 pm

alcloseshaver wrote:As a future member of the Lake conference after this year maybe STMA will be moved out of 8AA.
I wouldn’t bet on it. 8AA is difficult to fill out as things currently stand, and removing STMA creates a huge domino effect of realignment. Plus, not all of the Lake teams are in the same section anyway. Geography and competitive balance take precedence over conference affiliation when it comes to section alignment.

Stang5280
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by Stang5280 » Wed May 16, 2018 6:09 pm

victor maitland wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:STMA joining the Lake conference, it has been agreed upon.
Maple Grove would like to join the Lake also I'm sure but admin won't let them split from from Osseo and PC.
That is correct. According to the folks at the district they like their natural rivalries in PC and Osseo. I call garbage, schedule them in non-conference.
Is Maple Grove even being given the choice to separate from their fellow district high schools, or is the Osseo district administration forcing them to stay together? I agree that maintaining the rivalries is a silly justification (and MG dominates the other two schools in most sports anyway), but having grown up in Brooklyn Park I also know how reluctant the district is to split up their schools in any way. On a marginally related tangent, there were calls back in the early 80s to separate the PC and Osseo portions into separate districts, but the district administration quickly squashed those proposals.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Wed May 16, 2018 11:07 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:As a future member of the Lake conference after this year maybe STMA will be moved out of 8AA.
I wouldn’t bet on it. 8AA is difficult to fill out as things currently stand, and removing STMA creates a huge domino effect of realignment. Plus, not all of the Lake teams are in the same section anyway. Geography and competitive balance take precedence over conference affiliation when it comes to section alignment.
Mostly tongue in cheek there Stanger, just move Elk River to 8. I'm sure Elliot would like that.

Stang5280
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Post by Stang5280 » Thu May 17, 2018 12:08 am

alcloseshaver wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:As a future member of the Lake conference after this year maybe STMA will be moved out of 8AA.
I wouldn’t bet on it. 8AA is difficult to fill out as things currently stand, and removing STMA creates a huge domino effect of realignment. Plus, not all of the Lake teams are in the same section anyway. Geography and competitive balance take precedence over conference affiliation when it comes to section alignment.
Mostly tongue in cheek there Stanger, just move Elk River to 8. I'm sure Elliot would like that.
Ha, gotcha. That would harken back to the days when ER was shuffled between sections like a hot potato! Heck, and just about any school west of the Mississippi makes more sense in 6AA than does CDH.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Thu May 17, 2018 5:12 am

alcloseshaver wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:As a future member of the Lake conference after this year maybe STMA will be moved out of 8AA.
I wouldn’t bet on it. 8AA is difficult to fill out as things currently stand, and removing STMA creates a huge domino effect of realignment. Plus, not all of the Lake teams are in the same section anyway. Geography and competitive balance take precedence over conference affiliation when it comes to section alignment.
Mostly tongue in cheek there Stanger, just move Elk River to 8. I'm sure Elliot would like that.
Despite the comedic intention, it is important to note that section alignments are 100% geographic and 0% conference, competitive balance, and everything else. Even Cretin being in 6AA makes sense when you look at the the ripple effect elsewhere. However, now that Blake is AA, I wouldn’t be surprised to see CDH out in 3 years when major realignment takes place.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Fri Jun 29, 2018 11:56 pm

The Lake voted this week to not accept STMA as conference member. Kicked out of the Miss. 8 and turned down by 2 conferences the MSHSL will have to place them in a conference. Probably the Lake?

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 12:40 am

Geographically STMA doesn’t seem to fit with the Lake, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see them placed there by mshsl.

Richfield is moving out of the Metro West, which doesn’t effect hockey but some say marks the start of the end for the relatively new conference. If that’s the case, could see Chaska and Chanhassen move back to the Lake with their expected growth. Or, if St Louis Park enrollment grows as fast as its house prices are rising, they would be a good fit as well.

GoldenBear69
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Post by GoldenBear69 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:29 am

alcloseshaver wrote:The Lake voted this week to not accept STMA as conference member. Kicked out of the Miss. 8 and turned down by 2 conferences the MSHSL will have to place them in a conference. Probably the Lake?
Does the MSHSL “place” teams in conferences?? I understood the MSHSL only established Section assignments.

Also, couldn’t STMA play as an independent (no conference affiliation). There are several teams that have no conference affiliation - Grand Rapids and Duluth East come to mind.

alcloseshaver
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Post by alcloseshaver » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:23 am

GoldenBear69 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:The Lake voted this week to not accept STMA as conference member. Kicked out of the Miss. 8 and turned down by 2 conferences the MSHSL will have to place them in a conference. Probably the Lake?
Does the MSHSL “place” teams in conferences?? I understood the MSHSL only established Section assignments.

Also, couldn’t STMA play as an independent (no conference affiliation). There are several teams that have no conference affiliation - Grand Rapids and Duluth East come to mind.
GB, If you have been kicked out of a conference and apply to and are denied admission to like 2 conferences the MSHSL will place you in a conference. Other sports than hockey are to be considered. Hearing that making the drive up 94 in rush hour was not something that some of the schools were thrilled about. It's a process you go through.

Stang5280
Posts: 354
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:12 pm

Post by Stang5280 » Sat Jun 30, 2018 9:51 pm

GoldenBear69 wrote:
alcloseshaver wrote:The Lake voted this week to not accept STMA as conference member. Kicked out of the Miss. 8 and turned down by 2 conferences the MSHSL will have to place them in a conference. Probably the Lake?
Does the MSHSL “place” teams in conferences?? I understood the MSHSL only established Section assignments.

Also, couldn’t STMA play as an independent (no conference affiliation). There are several teams that have no conference affiliation - Grand Rapids and Duluth East come to mind.
The MSHSL stepping in to place teams into conferences is rare, but it does occur in situations like this. There is actually good recent precedent from 2014. The North Suburban, Classic Suburban, and Missota conferences disbanded following that season, and several schools were left without conference homes after all of the musical chairs of realignment had settled. BSM and STA were the most notable for hockey purposes. BSM had been rejected by the newly-formed Metro West, and STA had been rejected by several conferences (Metro East, South Suburban and Suburban East). The MSHSL placement committee ended up assigning BSM to the Metro West and STA to the Metro East over the objections of the other conference members.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:46 am

Stang5280 wrote:The MSHSL stepping in to place teams into conferences is rare, but it does occur in situations like this. There is actually good recent precedent from 2014. The North Suburban, Classic Suburban, and Missota conferences disbanded following that season, and several schools were left without conference homes after all of the musical chairs of realignment had settled. BSM and STA were the most notable for hockey purposes. BSM had been rejected by the newly-formed Metro West, and STA had been rejected by several conferences (Metro East, South Suburban and Suburban East). The MSHSL placement committee ended up assigning BSM to the Metro West and STA to the Metro East over the objections of the other conference members.
Which all makes me wonder if the idea of having conferences for hockey has outlived its purpose/usefullness. If hockey conferences must be retained then the authority given to the MSHSL to place individual schools (as noted by Stang5280 above) is an absolutely must; otherwise, some schools will be left out to dry.

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