Competitive Section Assignments

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LZ94
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:20 pm

Competitive Section Assignments

Post by LZ94 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:06 pm

The Section's for the next two years have been released.

https://www.mshsl.org/sections/list.asp

A couple of changes that shake things up a bit.

massalsa
Posts: 503
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by massalsa » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:47 pm

LOL. Christmas came early for section 2AA (Eden Prairie) and 8AA.

A lump of coal for Minnetonka & NWC (and Sections 6AA & 7AA).

LoL on Section 6. Change the haha to tonka. Joke is on them...

Section 7 adds NWC to make it more competitive.

Now 7 of the LPH top 10 are in 2 sections...and that does not include a BSM that is very well could be top 10 in the next 2 years.

Breck, two time class A champions, are the HEAVY favorites for 19/20, 20/21 & 21/22. Who is even going to challenge them in A?!? Why would they even consider opting up to be put into Section 6?

bodyup88
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by bodyup88 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 pm

zoomx, did the Alexandria girls opt up?

goaliedad31
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by goaliedad31 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:41 pm

What was the MSHSL thinking with 6AA? It should just be called the state tournament. You could very well have 5-6 top 10 teams in one section next year. So much for having a competitive State Tournament.
HP is also done by section once in HS and this will throw off the section balance even worse than it already is.

cjmhockey19
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Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by cjmhockey19 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:10 pm

Only one thing they were thinking about. GEOGRAPHY. thats it and thats all

goaliedad31
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by goaliedad31 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:36 pm

If it were only geography, then one would think that Lakeville North and Lakeville South would be in the same section.
But...……………….

cjmhockey19
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:02 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by cjmhockey19 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:00 pm

I mean go look at the maps they post its clear where the draw the "lines" not saying its the best decision but its clear what they are TRYING to do

jg2112
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by jg2112 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:42 am

It is a distinct possibility that top 10 teams won't make the section semi-finals in 6AA and 7AA the next two years because they lose to higher ranked teams. That's absurd.

highgloveside
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Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2017 12:34 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by highgloveside » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:13 pm

Too bad for Flake. Now they are the 3rd best team in the section. That hump just got bigger to get over :shock:

zooomx
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by zooomx » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:02 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:52 pm
zoomx, did the Alexandria girls opt up?
No, they were moved up due to enrollment. I think the program is ready for the transition. Deep numbers top to bottom. It will challenge the girls!

bodyup88
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by bodyup88 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:41 pm

Boys stayed in A though, right?

zooomx
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by zooomx » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:50 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:41 pm
Boys stayed in A though, right?
Correct. Weird how our girls program, without a co-op moves up. Honestly, though, based on girls youth numbers it is fine. Our schedule the past few years has been beefed up with more quality opponents including AA schools. This past season, I anticipated a potential down year and they still almost made state. They should be a top 3 or 4 team in the section for the foreseeable future. The 6A section though looks a little bare. Willmar, Fergus and River Lakes have improved but are a few years away from doing damage at state. Getting a better chance to go to state, however, may help them grow interest in their programs, which should help.

goaline
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by goaline » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:57 pm

The threshold for AA/ A is different in boys than girls because the difference in the number of teams and their makeup -- fewer smaller class A schools means the enrollment threshold is lower than the boys version... There are approximately 30 more boys teams in the state than girls

bodyup88
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by bodyup88 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:39 pm

It looks like the difference is primarily due to opt ups in boys and co-ops on the girls'side. Chaska/Chan, Hopkins/Park and Champlin Park/CR are girls' co-ops that all field AA programs on the boys' side. Additionally, STA, C-E-C, Marshall, Holy Angels and now TG play boys' AA hockey but not girls. AA boys now field 65 teams.

If MSHSL didn't bring some girls' teams up they would only have 57 AA teams. So they moved up Alex, DC, Waconia, and co-ops Sartell/SR, Becker/BL/Princeton and Cambridge/Mora/PC to make 63 AA teams.

I see the reduction in boys AA teams from 69-65 as a harbinger to a three class tournament.

zooomx
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by zooomx » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:50 pm

bodyup88 wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:39 pm
It looks like the difference is primarily due to opt ups in boys and co-ops on the girls'side. Chaska/Chan, Hopkins/Park and Champlin Park/CR are girls' co-ops that all field AA programs on the boys' side. Additionally, STA, C-E-C, Marshall, Holy Angels and now TG play boys' AA hockey but not girls. AA boys now field 65 teams.

If MSHSL didn't bring some girls' teams up they would only have 57 AA teams. So they moved up Alex, DC, Waconia, and co-ops Sartell/SR, Becker/BL/Princeton and Cambridge/Mora/PC to make 63 AA teams.

I see the reduction in boys AA teams from 69-65 as a harbinger to a three class tournament.
Yes, makes sense and like I said, no worries here. On the boys side I wouldn't be surprised or disappointed to see a 3 class tourney. Top 48 AAA, next 48 AA, the rest A. The middle class would be much more competitive for sections and state. It would be nice for the small school not to get smoked in sections each year. I look at our neighbors like Sauk Centre. They have some good players but due to lack of depth, they can run out pretty hard in sections.

luckyEPDad
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by luckyEPDad » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:48 pm

The winner of the state tournament should be immediately moved to section 2, and the section 2 team with the longest drought is moved to some other section. Or maybe all 8 teams from the state tournament should be moved into section 2.

I am not a fan of the new sections. The Edina/EP rivalry was fantastic, and a big part of that was the section final game. Minnetonka/EP rivalry was not as good, but still there was a history of great games, and the final was always a great game. Now EP doesn't have anyone in their section who is also in their conference. That is just wrong. What a sad day.

Lace'emUp
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by Lace'emUp » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:29 pm

luckyEPDad wrote:
Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:48 pm
The winner of the state tournament should be immediately moved to section 2, and the section 2 team with the longest drought is moved to some other section. Or maybe all 8 teams from the state tournament should be moved into section 2.

I am not a fan of the new sections. The Edina/EP rivalry was fantastic, and a big part of that was the section final game. Minnetonka/EP rivalry was not as good, but still there was a history of great games, and the final was always a great game. Now EP doesn't have anyone in their section who is also in their conference. That is just wrong. What a sad day.
Everyone wants to see the best teams play in the state tournament, but sections will never ever go away. There's a solution to have the best of both worlds (or somewhat), and here's what it could look like.
-Let the MSHSL keep their sections and arrange them however they want.
-Play-out the section tournaments to crown the 8 champions who get automatic bids to an 11-team state tournament field.
-Seeds 1-5 come from the pool of sections champions (as they currently do now) get a bye for the 1st round of state tournament games.
-The unseeded section champions would then play 1st round games versus 3 "at-large" teams picked by the coaches, KRACH or whatever system they currently use.
-All 3 first round games are played on Monday afternoon/evening down at Tria or Ridder, or both, with the winners moving on to play in the quarterfinals.

In the above situation, the next 3 best teams from the KRACH rankings were Blake, FLake, and Wayzata this past season. The "random draw" for seeds 6, 7, 8 (the unseeded section champs) were WBL (6), Farmington (7), and East Ridge (8). The first round games would be WBL vs Blake, Farmington vs FLake, and East Ridge vs Wayzata. Maybe the solution only involves the runner-up teams from each section. If you cannot make it to your section final, you don't qualify for an at-large bid.

MNHockeyFan
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:36 pm

I like it, Lace, but it's probably much too rational of an approach for the MSHSL to ever adopt it. They are too stuck in their ways to ever change.

Slap Shot
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by Slap Shot » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:12 am

You could do sections like they are but runner-ups make state as well.

-The 8 section winners are seeded 1- 8 even though some of these teams would be rated lower on PageStat than some runner-ups
-This is the benefit for being a section champion
-Fill in the remaining 8 with section losers seeing them 9-16 per PageState
-Then for instance the Section 6 loser would likely get seeded 9th and play #8 in the first round which wouldn't be that difficult
-Although they'd likely have to play the #1 seed in Round 2 just be happy you got to state in the first place in an expanded field

I think that makes more sense than 11 teams, but there may be better options for how the field is laid out regarding 'seeding'.

JJhockeySS
Posts: 190
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by JJhockeySS » Tue Apr 16, 2019 1:04 pm

MSHSL is usually slow to change, we all know that. With that said they did change in the top class of football, and basketball coaches seem hopeful they will consider adopting their proposal this summer.

If we want to suggest a plan that even stands a chance to be considered it would have to start with keeping the max # of games played at 31. I think there are a few ideas out there, but without starting with somewhat balanced sections no plan will be perfect.

I have a big issue with the MSHSL naming them "Competitive Section Assignments" shouldn't they be named "Geographical Section Assignments"? I get that you put no effort into balancing sections, but please at least own that, don't brush them off as competitive. I know it's a small thing but it really bugs me for some reason.

Eagles93
Posts: 162
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by Eagles93 » Wed May 01, 2019 12:37 pm

Looks like they moved Waconia down to 2A and Minnetonka back to 2AA?

https://www.mshsl.org/sections/list.asp

Lake South Alum
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by Lake South Alum » Wed May 01, 2019 3:29 pm

Now based on the fact that MSHSL claims that Section placement is based on geography only, they now just need to:

1. Fix the typo about Lakeville South and North being in different Sections.
2. Move Cretin out of Section 6.
3. Place the pin on the Section Map for Blake in Minneapolis (not in Hopkins).

bodyup88
Posts: 90
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Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by bodyup88 » Thu May 02, 2019 9:16 am

Or, they could just seed everyone and be done with all this mess. I think we're all understanding why allowing the section assignments to be run out of a board room in Brooklyn Center isn't the best idea.

Lake South Alum
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:35 pm

Re: Competitive Section Assignments

Post by Lake South Alum » Thu May 02, 2019 11:17 am

I agree that seeding the teams would be best. You could even seed the northern teams separately in their own region if you still wanted to guarantee northern participation in the Tournament. However, if they still want to "hold on" to Sections, I think they could still take into account geography and competitive balance better than what they are doing now.

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