NDTP Invites MN edition

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yesiplayedhockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:49 pm

Just another sign of just how strong of commitment our kids /families have to the Minnesota model

Take out the two Gentry kids who never experienced the joy of playing Bantam or High School hockey here and Minnesota hockey really only lost the one kid to NDTP

InThePipes
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by InThePipes » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:57 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:49 pm
Just another sign of just how strong of commitment our kids /families have to the Minnesota model

Take out the two Gentry kids who never experienced the joy of playing Bantam or High School hockey here and Minnesota hockey really only lost the one kid to NDTP
Right, should note these are the players that have accepted invitations and is likely not representative of the # of MN players invited.

WestMetro
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by WestMetro » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:09 pm

Correct, others were offered and said no

Also heard Hedquist was down to the wire on an invite but a different goalie got it

And guessing JJ acceptance was not an easy family decision, Trevor did not really stand out at Ann Arbor , and only this year is he really excelling . Wish MG could figure out what it needs to do to get the top kids motivated and retained for the HS program

InThePipes
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by InThePipes » Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:37 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:09 pm
Correct, others were offered and said no

Also heard Hedquist was down to the wire on an invite but a different goalie got it

And guessing JJ acceptance was not an easy family decision, Trevor did not really stand out at Ann Arbor , and only this year is he really excelling . Wish MG could figure out what it needs to do to get the top kids motivated and retained for the HS program
Looking at the list of the 9 players who are part of the program over the past 3 years, 4 of them are from Maple Grove :shock:

WestMetro
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by WestMetro » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:07 pm

Right, plus Haider! Just ridiculous! Crimson boosters and admin should put on the coffee pot and do some fresh brainstorming.

Stang5280
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:12 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:07 pm
Right, plus Haider! Just ridiculous! Crimson boosters and admin should put on the coffee pot and do some fresh brainstorming.
As someone who grew up on the opposite side of the Osseo School District, albeit before MGHS existed, I don’t feel too sorry for them :lol:

Seriously, though, I’m not sure how much MG can (or even should?) do about the “problem” of losing kids to the NTDP. It’s a significant honor to be selected for the team, and if the player chooses to leave, I think you just wish them good luck and put it in the win column for player development in your program. About the only thing MG can really do is hope they can break through with some success in the state tournament that might give kids some incentive to stick around for a trophy.

WestMetro
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by WestMetro » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:49 pm

“About the only thing MG can really do is hope they can break through with some success in the state tournament that might give kids some incentive to stick around for a trophy”


Stang - That’s it ! Boosters and admin got to figure out what needed on their part to convince the elite kids that it happen. Two appearances not enough for that talent pool

Stang5280
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Stang5280 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:00 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:49 pm
“About the only thing MG can really do is hope they can break through with some success in the state tournament that might give kids some incentive to stick around for a trophy”


Stang - That’s it ! Boosters and admin got to figure out what needed on their part to convince the elite kids that it happen. Two appearances not enough for that talent pool
I was a little slow to catch on, but eventually I figured out where you were going with that :wink:

InThePipes
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by InThePipes » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:00 am

[/quote]

Seriously, though, I’m not sure how much MG can (or even should?) do about the “problem” of losing kids to the NTDP. It’s a significant honor to be selected for the team, and if the player chooses to leave, I think you just wish them good luck and put it in the win column for player development in your program. About the only thing MG can really do is hope they can break through with some success in the state tournament that might give kids some incentive to stick around for a trophy.
[/quote]

No doubt, it's an incredible opportunity and I don't understand how anyone can suggest that playing for the USNTDP is an inferior option to MN HS Hockey (Maple Grove or any other HS). I understand there are many reasons why players may elect to decline the opportunity, but certainly no need to be critical of those who pursue it.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:11 am

in the pipes

I don't think it's inferior nor did I say that. I think it's just "different". I would say 19 out of 20 times whether a kid goes there or stays, it won't have any effect on the kids long term development..... If the kid has it within and has been giving a gift by the hockey gods (athleticism, height, IQ, etc) he will be just fine no matter where he's at....Remember NDTP is not taking an average player and making them great. They are focused on taking a great player and making them an early NHL draft pick. So it's not fair to compare their success to a High School program. Personally I love seeing the high school story of a kid coming out of nowhere and earning that D-1 scholarship his senior year. I loved watching programs like Greenway capture our attention during a weekend in March. That to me is the magical part of High School hockey that Tier 1 or NDTP simply can't duplicate.

Yes every kid chosen on this years NDTP team will play college hockey...But so will another 15-20 kids from Minnesota with the same birth year.

As far a Maple Grove, their hockey numbers are so big that for every kid that leaves (goes private or to NDTP) it opens up a jersey for another kid to step up. They will be fine. They have a very good chance at making a deep run this year at state (assuming no one else leaves)

InThePipes
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by InThePipes » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:16 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:11 am
in the pipes

I don't think it's inferior nor did I say that. I think it's just "different". I would say 19 out of 20 times whether a kid goes there or stays, it won't have any effect on the kids long term development..... If the kid has it within and has been giving a gift by the hockey gods (athleticism, height, IQ, etc) he will be just fine no matter where he's at....Remember NDTP is not taking an average player and making them great. They are focused on taking a great player and making them an early NHL draft pick. So it's not fair to compare their success to a High School program. Personally I love seeing the high school story of a kid coming out of nowhere and earning that D-1 scholarship his senior year. I loved watching programs like Greenway capture our attention during a weekend in March. That to me is the magical part of High School hockey that Tier 1 or NDTP simply can't duplicate.

Yes every kid chosen on this years NDTP team will play college hockey...But so will another 15-20 kids from Minnesota with the same birth year.

As far a Maple Grove, their hockey numbers are so big that for every kid that leaves (goes private or to NDTP) it opens up a jersey for another kid to step up. They will be fine. They have a very good chance at making a deep run this year at state (assuming no one else leaves)
I think we agree on all counts.

Section 8 guy
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Section 8 guy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:02 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:11 am
Yes every kid chosen on this years NDTP team will play college hockey...But so will another 15-20 kids from Minnesota with the same birth year.
Assuming you mean D1 college hockey. Even so.......that number would be more like 40-45 than 15-20.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 am

You're saying 40-50 2003 birth year kids from Minnesota will eventually play D-1? Wow I had no idea the numbers were that high. Impressive

Anyone know the current number of 2001's verbally committed ? 2000's ?

Slap Shot
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Slap Shot » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:52 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 am
You're saying 40-50 2003 birth year kids from Minnesota will eventually play D-1? Wow I had no idea the numbers were that high. Impressive

Anyone know the current number of 2001's verbally committed ? 2000's ?
I can't comment on any specific birth year, but per the NCAA Div I media kit for 2018-19 season, a total of 193 Minnesotans were on starting rosters. 39 more than MI, 88 more than MA and 7 less than Ontario. Because same birth years will have a spectrum of "first year in", 40-50 "playing eventually" does not sound unreasonable without having additional data.

http://collegehockeyinc.com/images/2018 ... ia_Kit.pdf

fwiw 55 Minnesotans have played a total of 2,425 games in the NHL so far this season, 14 more players than MI and 29 more than MA. I would say whatever path kids from here are choosing (I believe most played MSHSL to at least their Jr. year) that the entire community across the state is getting it right more often than not.

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/state-t ... stats.html

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:57 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 am
You're saying 40-50 2003 birth year kids from Minnesota will eventually play D-1? Wow I had no idea the numbers were that high. Impressive

Anyone know the current number of 2001's verbally committed ? 2000's ?
Easy to find by grad year on FollowthePuck.com
http://followthepuck.com/index.php/minn ... 2018-2019/

2019 - 27
2020 - 25
2021 - 15
2022 - 3
Minnesota based volunteer for EliteProspects.com

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:30 pm

Beau

Not a big deal but those numbers would include a combination of birth years

Example 2020 grads are typically a combo of late 01's and early 02's
2021 would be late 02 and early 03's

For the sake of the argument, is there a website that list these commitments out by birth year? or is it all be graduation year

Stang5280
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Stang5280 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:39 pm

BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:57 am
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 am
You're saying 40-50 2003 birth year kids from Minnesota will eventually play D-1? Wow I had no idea the numbers were that high. Impressive

Anyone know the current number of 2001's verbally committed ? 2000's ?
Easy to find by grad year on FollowthePuck.com
http://followthepuck.com/index.php/minn ... 2018-2019/

2019 - 27
2020 - 25
2021 - 15
2022 - 3
That list isn’t quite complete, however, as it doesn’t include players from Minnesota who never were in the MSHSL structure (Shattuck, other AAA, etc.). So the actual commitment numbers are a bit higher.
Last edited by Stang5280 on Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

WestMetro
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by WestMetro » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:48 pm

The higher count mentioned might have been the total including girls

BeauKnowsHockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by BeauKnowsHockey » Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:33 pm

Stang5280 wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:39 pm
BeauKnowsHockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:57 am
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:02 am
You're saying 40-50 2003 birth year kids from Minnesota will eventually play D-1? Wow I had no idea the numbers were that high. Impressive

Anyone know the current number of 2001's verbally committed ? 2000's ?
Easy to find by grad year on FollowthePuck.com
http://followthepuck.com/index.php/minn ... 2018-2019/

2019 - 27
2020 - 25
2021 - 15
2022 - 3
That list isn’t quite complete, however, as it doesn’t include players from Minnesota who never were in the MSHSL structure (Shattuck, other AAA, etc.). So the actual commitment numbers are a bit higher.
I am aware of the fact that grad year will include 2 birth years.

Heisenberg’s list will include shattuck. And has birthdates. But you will still need to count them yourself.

Not sure if maybe @collegecommitments list has something. Or maybe collegehockeynews.com? I didn’t go check there yet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... BmwMdJlLCs
Minnesota based volunteer for EliteProspects.com

Section 8 guy
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Section 8 guy » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:11 pm

WestMetro wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:48 pm
The higher count mentioned might have been the total including girls
If you are referring to my comments I’m referring to men’s hockey only. Over time there are usually 200 or so men’s hockey players from MN in college hockey. That number has been pretty consistent over time. If you figure those players are spread out over roughly 5 classes that’s about 40 per class.

You could make the point that with older players there are probably 6 or 7 classes involved. However the oldest two classes are likely small in number and the counter to that is some players played D1 hockey then left early for pro hockey. My guess is if you actually tracked it over a long period of time the norm would be 45 or so players per class play D1 hockey at some point but that’s just a guess.

O-townClown
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:30 pm

Section 8 guy wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:11 pm
You could make the point that with older players there are probably 6 or 7 classes involved. However the oldest two classes are likely small in number and the counter to that is some players played D1 hockey then left early for pro hockey. My guess is if you actually tracked it over a long period of time the norm would be 45 or so players per class play D1 hockey at some point but that’s just a guess.
I think you've got it. Florida had about 5 per birth year and around 20 at Div. I. As I recall, Minnesota was about 10 times that. (5 years ago numbers.)
Be kind. Rewind.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:27 am

Okay so if I'm following that logic (and trust me I'm not arguing with you)

Take the 1998 birth year. It would have around 50 kids right now - Either at the D-1 school, at juniors but verbally committed or maybe already played a year or two of college and currently playing pro

(The W and OHL we can keep out of this for simplistic reasons)

Anyone ?

Great topic - If the numbers come even close to 50 I'm impressed. I'd thought it was about half that but again you lose track of some of these late developers

WestMetro
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by WestMetro » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:27 am

Thanks for clarification Section 8!

hockey59
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by hockey59 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:47 am

yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:27 am
Okay so if I'm following that logic (and trust me I'm not arguing with you)

Take the 1998 birth year. It would have around 50 kids right now - Either at the D-1 school, at juniors but verbally committed or maybe already played a year or two of college and currently playing pro

(The W and OHL we can keep out of this for simplistic reasons)

Anyone ?

Great topic - If the numbers come even close to 50 I'm impressed. I'd thought it was about half that but again you lose track of some of these late developers
1998 birth years: Casey Mittelstadt, Joey Anderson, Ryan Lindgren, Scott Perunovich, Cole Koepke, Garrett Wait, Keiffer Bellows, Riley Tufte, Matt Kierstad, Matt Hellickson Matt Denman, Max Johnson, Brendan Bushy, Nick Perbix, Benton Maass, Bauer Neudecker, John Stampohar, Tanner Vescio, Mason Palmer, Hank Sorenson, Jax Murray, Taylor Schneider, Louie Roehl, Ryan Edquist, Mitchell Mattson, Jake Oettinger, Sam Huff, Austin Long, Jensen Zerban, Shay Donovan, Cade Bouchard, Cameron Buhl, Henry Enebak, Lincoln Erne, Ben Meyers, Casey Staum, Dalton Weigel, Trevor Zins, Hunter Johannes, Justin Jallen, Nick Leitner, John Keranen, Andrew Kruse, Taylor Lantz, Keenan Lund, Seth Eisele, Micah Miller. So that’s 47 players so far & I might be missing a few...very close to 50 players 😉☝️
Last edited by hockey59 on Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Stang5280
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Re: NDTP Invites MN edition

Post by Stang5280 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:53 am

hockey59 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:47 am
yesiplayedhockey wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:27 am
Okay so if I'm following that logic (and trust me I'm not arguing with you)

Take the 1998 birth year. It would have around 50 kids right now - Either at the D-1 school, at juniors but verbally committed or maybe already played a year or two of college and currently playing pro

(The W and OHL we can keep out of this for simplistic reasons)

Anyone ?

Great topic - If the numbers come even close to 50 I'm impressed. I'd thought it was about half that but again you lose track of some of these late developers
1998 birth years: Casey Mittelstadt, Joey Anderson, Ryan Lindgren, Scott Perunovich, Cole Koepke, Garrett Wait, Keiffer Bellows, Riley Tufte, Matt Denman, Max Johnson, Brendan Bushy, Nick Perbix, Benton Maass, Bauer Neudecker, John Stampohar, Tanner Vescio, Mason Palmer, Hank Sorenson, Jax Murray, Taylor Schneider, Louie Roehl, Ryan Edquist, Mitchell Mattson, Jake Oettinger, Sam Huff, Austin Long, Jensen Zerban, Shay Donovan, Cade Bouchard, Cameron Buhl, Henry Enebak, Lincoln Erne, Ben Myers, Casey Staum, Dalton Weigel, Trevor Zins, Hunter Johannes, Justin Jallen, Nick Leitner, John Keranen, Andrew Kruse, Taylor Lantz, Keenan Lund, Seth Eisele - That’s 44 players so far & I might be missing a few...so it’s a lot closer to 50 than 25 😉☝️
Great job in compiling those names. It’s interesting to see that several are already in the professional ranks, while others have yet to even make it to campus. Goes to show how different developmental timelines can be within the same age group (and of course talent variations even among D1 commits).

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