Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

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kniven
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by kniven » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm

greenwayraider wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:18 pm
Wait until Marshall drops to A. They’ll put Centennial or Blaine in 7AA.
I hope it’s Blaine. I wonder if Blaine would put CEC or Grand Rapids on their schedule. 7AA is wacko metro 7AA squads don’t schedule north 7AA squads. Duluth East plays Andover. Nobody else does in the north 7AA.

blueline_6
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by blueline_6 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm

kniven wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm
greenwayraider wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:18 pm
Wait until Marshall drops to A. They’ll put Centennial or Blaine in 7AA.
I hope it’s Blaine. I wonder if Blaine would put CEC or Grand Rapids on their schedule. 7AA is wacko metro 7AA squads don’t schedule north 7AA squads. Duluth East plays Andover. Nobody else does in the north 7AA.
DEast and Elks play each other every year, alternating home/away.

Stang5280
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by Stang5280 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:09 pm

blueline_6 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:33 pm
kniven wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm
greenwayraider wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:18 pm
Wait until Marshall drops to A. They’ll put Centennial or Blaine in 7AA.
I hope it’s Blaine. I wonder if Blaine would put CEC or Grand Rapids on their schedule. 7AA is wacko metro 7AA squads don’t schedule north 7AA squads. Duluth East plays Andover. Nobody else does in the north 7AA.
DEast and Elks play each other every year, alternating home/away.
Flake played every northern school in the section each of the last two seasons. Ironically, their only win was 1-0 over CEC in 2017-18.

PuckNA
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by PuckNA » Tue Aug 20, 2019 9:46 pm

kniven wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm
greenwayraider wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:18 pm
Wait until Marshall drops to A. They’ll put Centennial or Blaine in 7AA.
I hope it’s Blaine. I wonder if Blaine would put CEC or Grand Rapids on their schedule. 7AA is wacko metro 7AA squads don’t schedule north 7AA squads. Duluth East plays Andover. Nobody else does in the north 7AA.
Probably be Rogers or Champlin Park....

karl(east)
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by karl(east) » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:41 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:14 am
ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:36 am
elliott70 wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 9:40 am



I am not sure this is true.
“Or remains stagnant...” implying it is currently stagnant without much in projections of it trending upwards. Thanks for reading the rest of the sentence.
I read the whole post - I don't think it is stagnant either.....
I'd say most of the places that play AA in hockey in area code 218 are doing reasonably well economically. Moorhead, Brainerd, Bemidji, and Grand Rapids are all growing some. While Duluth proper is mostly built out the immediate metro area is growing modestly in outlying areas like Esko (part of the Cloquet co-op) and Hermantown (not AA yet, but we can dream). East also pulls from some townships that see modest growth and has the wealthiest couple neighborhoods in the area feeding into it. Roseau is maybe the exception to the rule, but that has long been the case, and in the short to medium term the Rams (which is all we can really see in the crystal ball right now) look plenty competitive at the youth levels. No, none of these areas are booming like an outer ring suburb, but I'd say their long-term economic futures are all in respectable shape.

There are certainly areas of struggle in the north, but most of those long ago lost their AA hockey teams, if they even had one to begin with.

goldy313
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by goldy313 » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:09 pm

Just my opinion..... Roseau continuing to opt opt keeps 8AA alive as we know it. There is no other reason for it to exist as a NW section. Moorhead is not a reason to keep a singular section alive. You could reasonably make an argument for a section of 218 teams, just as they did for 507 teams.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 7:45 am

Sorry I didn’t mean to start an economic discussion here. Just trying to say that there are already a lot of teams opting up to AA in the north, and that’s a lot less stable than school growth (though as we’ve seen in the metro school growth isn’t always stable over the long term either). I would agree that the Duluth and surrounding area seems to be the most reliable AA hotbeds, and while Rapids and Bemidji are doing okay now, it’s just not inconceivable to imagine a day where they, and heaven forbid Roseau, are A schools. Northern hockey purists would like to say “Never,” but more goes into it than just history. Things, for better or for worse, change. Maybe not for some time, but I’d never say never.

greenwayraider
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by greenwayraider » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:05 am

goldy313 wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:09 pm
Just my opinion..... Roseau continuing to opt opt keeps 8AA alive as we know it. There is no other reason for it to exist as a NW section. Moorhead is not a reason to keep a singular section alive. You could reasonably make an argument for a section of 218 teams, just as they did for 507 teams.
I think the 218 coaches and schools are going to have to make a tough decision as to whether they want one true Northern Section or be in sections that could easily result in no Northern teams at the state tournament on a frequent basis. I can see both Bemidji and CEC not opting up at some point and Duluth Marshall is history as a AA team. With the rapid growth of the NW suburbs and exurbs it will be very difficult to keep Sections 7 and 8 in their current form.

Mite-dad
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by Mite-dad » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:16 am

elliott70 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm
Top 32 teams
Wayzata High School 3276
Minnetonka High School 3198
Eden Prairie High School 2732
Blaine High School 2652
Prior Lake High School 2648
Stillwater Area High School 2636
Edina High School 2628
Champlin Park High School 2474
Shakopee High School 2281
Rosemount High School 2271
Maple Grove High School 2218
White Bear Lake Area High School 2105
Eastview High School 2085
Farmington High School 2082
Burnsville High School 2079
Anoka High School 2037
St. Michael-Albertville H.S. 1989
Roseville Area High School 1951
Centennial High School 1937
Eagan High School 1916
Woodbury High School 1864
Hopkins High School 1856
Forest Lake High School 1828
Coon Rapids High School 1775
East Ridge High School 1757
Osseo High School 1756
Buffalo High School 1720
Lakeville North High School 1716
Lakeville South High School 1711
Robbinsdale Armstrong High School 1703
Mounds View High School 1693
Brainerd High School 1685
Park High School 1685
So no Single A teams would be moved into this?

BSUBeaver
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by BSUBeaver » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 am

Even though they are not 218 (about 10 miles from the line), is it possible we could see Alexandria ending up in AA in the next alignment cycle? Their girls program got bumped up in the most recent alignment cycle. :?:

elliott70
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by elliott70 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:56 am

Mite-dad wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:16 am
elliott70 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:16 pm
Top 32 teams
Wayzata High School 3276
….
Park High School 1685
So no Single A teams would be moved into this?
This is just a list of the top 322 schools by enrollment.
The idea talked about setting up somethin similar to football...
Not really in the works.
If expound9ing on the idea I would guess, yes single A's would be brought into the mix somehow.

elliott70
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by elliott70 » Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 am

BSUBeaver wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 am
Even though they are not 218 (about 10 miles from the line), is it possible we could see Alexandria ending up in AA in the next alignment cycle? Their girls program got bumped up in the most recent alignment cycle. :?:
New Prague High School 1260 St. Louis Park High School 1255 Northfield High School 1252 Henry Sibley High School 1238 St. Francis High School 1234 Waconia High School 1228 Sauk Rapids-Rice High School 1226 Bemidji High School 1216 St. Cloud Tech High School 1205 Sartell-Saint Stephen High School 1185 Bloomington Kennedy High School 1184 Alexandria Area High School 1157

AA cut off 1252

No idea of Alex school enrolment in the younger grades so not sure if they will reach AA status.
No idea of mind set of Alex people on jumping to AA.

BSUBeaver
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by BSUBeaver » Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:16 am

elliott70 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 am
BSUBeaver wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 am
Even though they are not 218 (about 10 miles from the line), is it possible we could see Alexandria ending up in AA in the next alignment cycle? Their girls program got bumped up in the most recent alignment cycle. :?:
New Prague High School 1260 St. Louis Park High School 1255 Northfield High School 1252 Henry Sibley High School 1238 St. Francis High School 1234 Waconia High School 1228 Sauk Rapids-Rice High School 1226 Bemidji High School 1216 St. Cloud Tech High School 1205 Sartell-Saint Stephen High School 1185 Bloomington Kennedy High School 1184 Alexandria Area High School 1157

AA cut off 1252

No idea of Alex school enrolment in the younger grades so not sure if they will reach AA status.
No idea of mind set of Alex people on jumping to AA.
I am not 100% sure either on the mindset either. I didn't realize they were that far from the AA enrollment cut off yet and all those schools above them. I don't think the enrollment is growing at such a pace that they would add 100 students in the next two years, but it is growing. And the youth numbers are quite large right now. I have heard this year they are planning on six squirt teams, not sure on Pee Wees and Bantams.

zooomx
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by zooomx » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:50 am

BSUBeaver wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:16 am
elliott70 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 am
BSUBeaver wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:27 am
Even though they are not 218 (about 10 miles from the line), is it possible we could see Alexandria ending up in AA in the next alignment cycle? Their girls program got bumped up in the most recent alignment cycle. :?:
New Prague High School 1260 St. Louis Park High School 1255 Northfield High School 1252 Henry Sibley High School 1238 St. Francis High School 1234 Waconia High School 1228 Sauk Rapids-Rice High School 1226 Bemidji High School 1216 St. Cloud Tech High School 1205 Sartell-Saint Stephen High School 1185 Bloomington Kennedy High School 1184 Alexandria Area High School 1157

AA cut off 1252

No idea of Alex school enrolment in the younger grades so not sure if they will reach AA status.
No idea of mind set of Alex people on jumping to AA.
I am not 100% sure either on the mindset either. I didn't realize they were that far from the AA enrollment cut off yet and all those schools above them. I don't think the enrollment is growing at such a pace that they would add 100 students in the next two years, but it is growing. And the youth numbers are quite large right now. I have heard this year they are planning on six squirt teams, not sure on Pee Wees and Bantams.
I am a year away from being neck-deep involved in the program, but I know the last 5 years we spent a fair amount of time talking about when, not if, we go to AA. Not much angst when the girls got bumped up and I doubt there will be much when the boys do. The youth program has more than doubled in size over the past 12 year. Some of that is just organic growth, but a lot of it has been leadership being aggressive in growing youth numbers in order to compete when the AA move happens. Youth numbers have definitely benefited from the girls going to state almost every year and the recent success of the boys program.

I think the enrollment numbers will continue to grow and if I had to take an uneducated guess we will move up in 4 years. In the next 2 year cycle possibly. Personally, I would be excited to see Alex go to AA. It creates a stronger overall schedule and traditional rival Moorhead could no longer avoid scheduling the Cardinals. We would probably take our lumps for a couple years, but the trajectory of the program bodes well for the future.

elliott70
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by elliott70 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:52 am

Nice to hear good things for Alex.

elliott70
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by elliott70 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:58 am

If/when Alex jumps it would make 8AA

north to south
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alex
St Cloud
and the two more metro area teams
St Mikes
Rogers

That would be good.

ClassAGuy
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by ClassAGuy » Thu Aug 22, 2019 10:00 am

elliott70 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:58 am
If/when Alex jumps it would make 8AA

north to south
Roseau
Bemidji
Moorhead
Brainerd
Alex
St Cloud
and the two more metro area teams
St Mikes
Rogers

That would be good.
Sartell will be at AA before Alex. Sartell is growing at crazy rate I expect to see them in 8AA in the next cycle.

elliott70
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by elliott70 » Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:02 am

Sartell would be a nice addition.

Throw EGF in because of the quality of their program and 8AA
would be all north (by my definition).

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Thu Aug 22, 2019 3:21 pm

elliott70 wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 11:02 am
Sartell would be a nice addition.

Throw EGF in because of the quality of their program and 8AA
would be all north (by my definition).
I am all in for that set up [-o<

BSUBeaver
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by BSUBeaver » Thu Aug 22, 2019 4:18 pm

zooomx wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 9:50 am
BSUBeaver wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:16 am
elliott70 wrote:
Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:59 am


New Prague High School 1260 St. Louis Park High School 1255 Northfield High School 1252 Henry Sibley High School 1238 St. Francis High School 1234 Waconia High School 1228 Sauk Rapids-Rice High School 1226 Bemidji High School 1216 St. Cloud Tech High School 1205 Sartell-Saint Stephen High School 1185 Bloomington Kennedy High School 1184 Alexandria Area High School 1157

AA cut off 1252

No idea of Alex school enrolment in the younger grades so not sure if they will reach AA status.
No idea of mind set of Alex people on jumping to AA.
I am not 100% sure either on the mindset either. I didn't realize they were that far from the AA enrollment cut off yet and all those schools above them. I don't think the enrollment is growing at such a pace that they would add 100 students in the next two years, but it is growing. And the youth numbers are quite large right now. I have heard this year they are planning on six squirt teams, not sure on Pee Wees and Bantams.
I am a year away from being neck-deep involved in the program, but I know the last 5 years we spent a fair amount of time talking about when, not if, we go to AA. Not much angst when the girls got bumped up and I doubt there will be much when the boys do. The youth program has more than doubled in size over the past 12 year. Some of that is just organic growth, but a lot of it has been leadership being aggressive in growing youth numbers in order to compete when the AA move happens. Youth numbers have definitely benefited from the girls going to state almost every year and the recent success of the boys program.

I think the enrollment numbers will continue to grow and if I had to take an uneducated guess we will move up in 4 years. In the next 2 year cycle possibly. Personally, I would be excited to see Alex go to AA. It creates a stronger overall schedule and traditional rival Moorhead could no longer avoid scheduling the Cardinals. We would probably take our lumps for a couple years, but the trajectory of the program bodes well for the future.
Thanks for the info, zoomx. I still have a few years before I get neck deep, but the kiddos are getting older and the Alex programs have been fun to follow the last couple of years! And knowing the people involved, I am sure they have had contingency plans in place for when (if) that move to AA comes.

goldy313
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by goldy313 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:04 am

4 of the bottom 11 AA teams in terms of enrollment and 5 of the bottom 13 reside in 1AA. Only Northfield of those 5 is growing in terms of MSHSL enrollment. Rochester will be lucky to field 3 public school varsity teams in 10 years. Much like Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Cloud the middle class is disappearing. Owatonna has a declining enrollment and the next town nearest the cities (not in AA) is Faribault who can’t even field their own youth program.

The point being the AA field is largely becoming a group of metro teams plus opt ups and a couple of others.

kniven
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by kniven » Fri Aug 23, 2019 11:54 am

goldy313 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:04 am
4 of the bottom 11 AA teams in terms of enrollment and 5 of the bottom 13 reside in 1AA. Only Northfield of those 5 is growing in terms of MSHSL enrollment. Rochester will be lucky to field 3 public school varsity teams in 10 years. Much like Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Cloud the middle class is disappearing. Owatonna has a declining enrollment and the next town nearest the cities (not in AA) is Faribault who can’t even field their own youth program.

The point being the AA field is largely becoming a group of metro teams plus opt ups and a couple of others.
Yep

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:35 pm

goldy313 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:04 am
4 of the bottom 11 AA teams in terms of enrollment and 5 of the bottom 13 reside in 1AA. Only Northfield of those 5 is growing in terms of MSHSL enrollment. Rochester will be lucky to field 3 public school varsity teams in 10 years. Much like Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Cloud the middle class is disappearing. Owatonna has a declining enrollment and the next town nearest the cities (not in AA) is Faribault who can’t even field their own youth program.

The point being the AA field is largely becoming a group of metro teams plus opt ups and a couple of others.
@goldy313 that is unfortunate news to hear about in 1AA :(

I was thinking that south MN would see some resurging and new programs. Are towns such as Owatonna and Faribault wrestling/basketball towns. Seems to me those cities would be recipients of "white flight" families leaving burb life with enough disposable income to raise little hockey rubes.
Fill us in Goldy.

O-townClown
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by O-townClown » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:00 pm

Isn't ranking the worst A & AA sections 1-8 the same as doing the best sections countdown?

For AA (best to worst, read from the bottom up if you want the countdown)

1. VI - Benilde, Blake & Edina
2. II - Eden Prairie with some contenders
3. IV - Hill
4. V - how much has T-G closed the gap
5. III - Rosemount, not St. Thomas, is the fave
6. VIII - possibly Roseau's year
7. VII - wide open
8. I - Lakeville or Lakeville?
Be kind. Rewind.

Stang5280
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Re: Worst AA/A sections 1-8, 2019

Post by Stang5280 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:26 pm

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:35 pm
goldy313 wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 12:04 am
4 of the bottom 11 AA teams in terms of enrollment and 5 of the bottom 13 reside in 1AA. Only Northfield of those 5 is growing in terms of MSHSL enrollment. Rochester will be lucky to field 3 public school varsity teams in 10 years. Much like Minneapolis, St. Paul, and St. Cloud the middle class is disappearing. Owatonna has a declining enrollment and the next town nearest the cities (not in AA) is Faribault who can’t even field their own youth program.

The point being the AA field is largely becoming a group of metro teams plus opt ups and a couple of others.
@goldy313 that is unfortunate news to hear about in 1AA :(

I was thinking that south MN would see some resurging and new programs. Are towns such as Owatonna and Faribault wrestling/basketball towns. Seems to me those cities would be recipients of "white flight" families leaving burb life with enough disposable income to raise little hockey rubes.
Fill us in Goldy.
I’m not Goldy, obviously, but Owatonna is very much a wrestling and football community, and has been successful at the state level in both sports. I’m not sure about Faribault, which doesn’t seem to excel in any sports.

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