Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

[greybeard58]

Ice arenas have similar air conditions

Virus Can Travel 26 Feet at Cold Meat Plants With Stale Air
By Megan Durisin
July 23, 2020, 12:23 PM CDT Updated on July 23, 2020, 2:14 PM CDT
Particles were likely transmitted over more than 8 meters
Study on German plant says air conditions were a key cause
The Toennies meat packing plant in Rheda-Wiedenbrueck, Germany, on June 17, 2020.



Cold and stale air conditions allowed coronavirus particles to travel more than 8 meters (26 feet) at a German slaughterhouse, a study showed, giving an insight into how meat plants turned into hotspots for infections across the world.

Researchers reconstructed the likely cause of the outbreak at a Toennies Group slaughterhouse in Rheda-Wiedenbrueck, where about 1,500 workers contracted the virus. Similar conditions at plants globally are a reason they’ve become virus epicenters, according to the report from groups including the Helmholtz Center for Infection Research.

Meat plants from the U.S. to the U.K. and South America have seen the rapid spread of the virus, infecting thousands of employees who often work in close proximity on processing lines. Dozens of workers have died, and labor advocates have said that a lack of social distancing could continue to put people at risk. Outbreaks also forced American meat plants to close earlier this year, sparking some protein shortages.

Meanwhile, China is ramping up testing of imports of cold food for the virus. Even as global scientific experts say that the likelihood of transmission through food is extremely low, the Asian country has slapped export bans on some abattoirs with cases, further fueling the urgency to contain the disease.


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The Toennies outbreak likely began from one employee in May and was largely transmitted in the plant’s dismantling area, where rooms are often chilled to 10C degrees (50 Fahrenheit). Chilly air circulated without frequent changes -- coupled with a strenuous work conditions -- helped particles move large distances, said Adam Grundhoff, a co-author of the study.

“It is very likely that these factors generally play a crucial role in the global outbreaks in meat or fish processing plants,” said Grundhoff, a research group leader at the Heinrich Pette Institute, Leibniz Institute for Experimental Virology. Under these conditions, a distance of 1.5 to 3 meters between workers isn’t sufficient to prevent transmission, he said.

Disproportionate Hit
Workers at meat plants represent some of the populations facing a disproportionate hit from the health crisis and its economic fallout.

In the U.S., about half are immigrants, according to the Center for Economic and Policy Research. Employees also come from relatively low-income families, and about 44% of them are Hispanic and a quarter are African Americans, a demographic seeing a devastating toll both physically and financially.

Minority workers at the U.S. plants have seen the biggest blow from the outbreaks. In a July Centers for Disease Control and Prevention report that showed infection tallies through the end of May, data showed that of the of the cases that disclosed race and ethnicity, 87% involved minority workers -- with employees identified as Hispanic accounting for 56% of infections despite making up less than a third of the overall workforce.


The Toennies plant -- Germany’s largest pork abattoir -- reopened last week after a month-long closure and plans to gradually ramp up output. The company, which posted a link to the research report on Twitter, also recently released a 25-point plan detailing measures it’s making to prevent further outbreaks. They include testing employees twice a week, hiring workers directly and overhauling ventilation.

Read More: Germany’s Billionaire ‘Sausage King’ Faces Coronavirus Reckoning

The report’s findings show that no factory worldwide was built for such a crisis, and the company has invested in air filters and other mechanisms to protect employees, a Toennies spokesman said by email.

Housing conditions -- also often pinpointed as a factor in the outbreaks -- were not found to play a significant role in the disease’s initial spread.

“The important question now is under what conditions transmission events over longer distances are possible in other areas of life,” said Melanie Brinkmann, a research group leader at the Helmholtz center.

— With assistance by Tim Loh, and John Lauerman

(Adds details from CDC report in ninth paragraph)

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -stale-air

[cigar]

Does anyone understand the term long term side effects? That would mean year down the road two years, five years. So no extra harm sustained or long term injury to organs have not showed up yet and they will!

Does anyone on this site understand what pandemic means? It implies world wide virus. Out little corner of the world does not represent the virus effects. Come out of the little community view and understand what is really happening!

Put your masks on for the next month or two and I gaurantee hockey this winter!

A CV particle is a sphere with a diameter of 0.125 microns.
N95 masks, ONLY WHEN RIGOROUSLY FITTED AND TESTED, stop approximately 95% of particles down to 0.300 microns. Anything smaller than 0.300 microns sails through an N95 mask, EVEN if it is rigorously custom-fitted.
0.125 microns is SMALLER than 0.300 microns. THEREFORE, N95 masks do very little to block CV, even when rigorously custom-fitted. Hence the unstoppable healthy spread of the virus and herd immunity.
Surgical masks are 60%-80% effective in blocking particles of 5.000 microns down to 0.300, depending on the type.
Cloth, like a cotton bandana, will block particles down to 200 microns when brand new. After washing, when the weave of the fabric softens and loosens, that increases to 400-600 microns.
Just to recapitulate for the sake of clarity, a CV particle is ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FIVE THOUSANDTHS OF A MICRON in diameter. 0.125 microns.
Let's look at physics and mathematics folks.
We'll start with a single cough or sneeze.
Everyone "knows" that if you cover a cough or sneeze, and you should do it into your sleeve instead of your hand, this will reduce the risk of someone else getting a virus you may have, right?
Wrong.
It doesn't. So says the science! This is a myth, just like it is a myth that you can wear a mask and reduce transmission.
Wait -- you say! YUCK; that's obvious that it helps.
Well, no.
Here's why.
You sneeze and a huge green thing comes out your nose. Yuck! Nasty! Mucus, full of germs.
It goes, if uncovered...... downward, on the floor.
And harms nobody.
What? If I stop the loogie then how come that doesn't do anything?
Because in addition to the loogie out come a bunch of large drops, each also laden with virus. Maybe a few hundred drops. Yuck! Thus covering or physically blocking those will reduce transmission to other people, right?
Wrong again, statistically speaking.
Why?
Because in that same forceful exhale are an enormous number of sub-micron water droplets that are formed as the saturated vapor in your lungs (100% RH in expired air) cools slightly as it travels up from the lungs to the trachea and out the mouth or nose and comes into contact with the ambient air (well, unless it's over 98.6F in the air where you are anyway!)
Remember your basic physics: As any saturated vapor cools it condenses. Any saturated vapor that cools by even a tiny amount will condense -- that is, coalesce the individual vapor molecules into larger aggregates.
Ordinary "tidal volume" (that is, the amount of air you move in a resting condition with each inhalation) is about 500ml. For a cough or sneeze it is much larger; the maximum volume of air that can be inspired in adult human lungs typically is in the range of 4-6L, or eight to 12 times the "at rest" breathing amount.
When we breathe normally we produce very few or no large droplets. When we sing, play a wind instrument, yell, scream, cough or sneeze we produce a fairly large number of them.
But none of this matters at all, statistically, because with each breath we produce millions of small condensate drops, and all of them which do not aggregate beyond the pore size of the medium in a mask will go right through said mask in either direction, most of those condensed molecules are produced between the lungs and either before or just after exit from the body due to condensation of the 100% RH water vapor and each of them, if you are infected with a virus, carries enough virons to infect another person.
We've all "seen our breath" outside when it's cold.
That's aggregation and condensation to a great enough degree that the aggregates are visible; there are thousands to millions more said aggregates that are too small to see and when it's not cold outside none of them aggregate and condense sufficiently to be visible but they are all still there.
Note that during ordinary breathing the mean particle size is sub-micron. Statistically none of these are filtered in either direction by anything less than an N95.
This is why physics says that masks don't work against viruses and exactly zero RCTs show that they do. (https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/ ... XLhxMP_bXs)
(https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The ... of-Viruses)

Never mind the repeated attempts to do so including in 1918, which did nothing to prevent the spread.
Every single person that has ever "seen their breath" in the winter months knows, if they think about it for 30 seconds, why masks can't work and don't.
They can't work because blocking 1,000 pretty-large droplets sounds like it's great except hundreds of thousands or even millions of condensed water vapor molecule clusters were also expelled, they have enough virons on them to infect another person and very nearly zero of those are caught by the mask in either direction. The ones you see when you breathe out in the winter are >50um in size (the limit of visibility to the unaided eye); more than 50 times the size of the mean particle you actually exhale. Worse, every one of those tiny particles, unless condensed out or breathed in by someone else can remain in the air for hours since they are small enough to remain within the purview of brownian motion of air molecules; that is, they "float" so to speak because the energy of said molecular vibration and ordinary air currents, even indoors, is large compared to the pull of gravity toward the ground and thus they remain suspended in the air.
The reason we have a flu season is that the higher the absolute humidity, which tracks with temperature, the greater the odds that further agglomeration of these clusters of molecules will occur and once they get large enough gravity takes over as they are too heavy and they fall to the ground harmlessly.
So your mask stopped the nasty-looking and smelling loogie which can infect exactly one person, unless you wipe it around on people, and 1,000 of the 5,000 modest-size droplets you expelled. This is why the mask gets nasty all over the inside (which, by the way, if left on for any length of time or reused will breed bacteria on the inside surface which you can inhale, and it will be very bad for you if you do so.)
But it's worthless in terms of protecting anyone else because at the same time you expelled the 5,001 droplets and stopped 1,001, which sounds like a decent hazard reduction, you also expelled anywhere from thousands to several million micrometer-size drops, an effective none of which were stopped, all of which are infectious, and thus you actually caught materially less than 1% of the potential infections that can screw someone else!
1% is not statistically significant. Filtering out 0.1-1% of the infectious events out at the source DOES NOTHING.
The reason workers in a virus lab wear moon suits, go through multiple e sets of sealed doors with decontamination procedures before that suit is removed and breathe pressurized outside air while inside the lab is that these are facts and said virus -- any virus -- will go right through any "mask."
Further, Covid-19 isn't following the laws of physics on the agglomeration that occurs with absolute humidity is very strong evidence (but not proof), again on the science, that it is not predominantly being transmitted through the air but rather by contact with contaminated surfaces and since we know intact virus is found in feces fecal contamination is very likely involved (exactly as it is with polio, which also didn't follow the laws of physics on aerosol transmission because it wasn't, in the main, transmitted that way.)
We have known this since February.
Physics is not a list of suggestions folks.
It is a list of natural laws that nobody can violate.
Masks are worthless when it comes to viral transmission and in addition they are obviously also worthless against transmission that occurs due to contact with contaminated surfaces or objects. That's the physics of it and nobody has ever demonstrated an ability to modify the laws of physics.
Grow up, deal with the fact that masks are worthless, learn to live with the fact that this virus will not be responsive to voodoo or magical incantations by governors, mayors or anyone else. Manual removal of potential contamination from your hands by washing with soap and water will help, but there is no guarantee because as we know this virus can spread through multiple vectors. The sooner those who are not significantly harmed by this virus get it and thus inhibit transmission the sooner it will be equivalent in its impact to seasonal flu or less.
There is no other reality folks, and a vaccine is unlikely to work either. Don't get your hopes up for that as you are very likely to be disappointed.

[Hunters1993]

Wrong. Total B!

As a nurse when we walk into a room tgat is droplet virus such as CV is. We mask in a normal hospital mask and when these guidelines are followed not one case has been reported. It is when people go in the room for just a second to turn on a monitor or stop an IV pump that people get infected. You are a 100% wrong on this one! Healthcare workers who go into rooms with patients with droplet or airborne isolation will tell you otherwise! May want to rethink this one! Check some reliable medical sources.

[Hunters1993]

Influenza virus is believed to be transmitted predominantly by respiratory droplets, but the size distribution of particles responsible for transmission remains unclear, and in particular, there is a lack of consensus on the role of fine particle aerosols in transmission (

Sounds like that is a major problem in making statements about whether they get through masks or not.

[Hunters1993]

We did not identify any published research on the effectiveness of respiratory etiquette in reducing the risk for laboratory-confirmed influenza or ILI. One observational study reported a similar

I think they probably didn’t work very hard at finding any research on this because it is any medical journal or madeical site you look in.

[Hunters1993]

Most studies were underpowered because of limited sample size, and some studies also reported suboptimal adherence in the face mask group.

This makes any mask study it revels time when sample doesn’t adhere to the guidelines.

[Hunters1993]

masks because of cost and availability (38). There are still few uncertainties in the practice of face mask use, such as who should wear the mask and how long it should be used for. In theory, transmission should be reduced the most if both infected members and other contacts wear masks, but compliance in uninfected close contacts could be a problem (12,34). Proper use of face masks is essential because improper use might increase the risk for transmission (39). Thus, education on the proper use and disposal of used face masks, including hand hygiene, is also needed.

Right here is part of the problem. Many don’t wear them correctly or wear them sometimes only. Also states that masks require everyone to buy in for them to be effective. So if half don’t wear them then no ones mask is any good in the public setting.

[Hunters1993]

However, as with hand hygiene, face masks might be able to reduce the transmission of other infections and therefore have value in an influenza pandemic when healthcare resources are stretched.

This just admits there is benefit!

[Hunters1993]

Looks to me that two out of three graphs support hand hygiene.


https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/images/19-0994-F1.jpg

[Hunters1993]

Looks to me that two out of three graphs also support mask wearing.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/images/19-0994-F2.jpg

[Hunters1993]

They state there are major knowledge gaps to contend with. And they need more data on sizes of droplets etc.

Face mask
There are major gaps in our knowledge of the mechanisms of person-to-person transmission of influenza, including the importance of transmission through droplets of different sizes including small particle aerosols, and the potential for droplet and aerosol transmission to occur in different locations and with environmental conditions.
Additional high-quality RCTs of efficacy of face masks against laboratory-confirmed influenza would be valuable. Effectiveness of face masks or respirator use to prevent influenza prevention in special subpopulation, such as immunocompromised persons, would be valuable.

[goldy313]

Oregon delayed football indefinitely.

Wisconsin delayed the start of practice until September 7th.

Alabama is starting on time but school districts representing about 40% of the students are starting the year with distance learning.

[7TIMECHAMPS]

Wrong. Total B!

As a nurse when we walk into a room tgat is droplet virus such as CV is. We mask in a normal hospital mask and when these guidelines are followed not one case has been reported. It is when people go in the room for just a second to turn on a monitor or stop an IV pump that people get infected. You are a 100% wrong on this one! Healthcare workers who go into rooms with patients with droplet or airborne isolation will tell you otherwise! May want to rethink this one! Check some reliable medical sources.

I think that masks have a roll to play as well but just to clarify you are saying that nobody in healthcare that has gotten covid has got it wearing a mask? Healthcare workers have one of the highest rates of covid infections. So are you saying that really the problem is healthcare workers aren't wearing masks at work? I find that hard to believe and would like you to cite the source that says healthcare workers have higher rates of infections because they aren't wearing masks at work.

California has had a mask mandate for over a month and they are also reporting the most cases in the country. Again masks have a roll to play and likely reduce transmission but billing this as a magic bullet that will make everything all better is a bit misleading.

[cigar]

Looks to me that two out of three graphs also support mask wearing.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/images/19-0994-F2.jpg

you didn't see my post was also from CDC... which tells me you really have an agenda.... set in your opinion...
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/ ... XLhxMP_bXs

but this one is better:
https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The ... of-Viruses

physics also doesn't lie. but i saw someone on the internet try to explain why 2+2=5.. i guess that is where we are at...

Wear your mask so you can feel protected... that is fine.

[Hunters1993]

Mayo Clinic data July 2020. More up to date than April when “research” done for article.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus- ... t-20485449

[Hunters1993]

Let’s also look at the authors. Both from China. Article was written in April. How did China do during this outbreak?

Healthcare workers catch it due to the excessive number of times they interact around the disease. That is a fact. The vast number of interactions and hygiene pre and post interaction. While interacting with coworkers.

Let’s think about how often the average person interacts around this thing and how often healthcare does. If you looked at interactions and then infections for average person and healthcare worker it is a major note to see how few healthcare workers get sick.

[Hunters1993]

When tested on influenza patients, surgical masks trapped 96% of droplet-associated viruses,

Research says......................

[Hunters1993]

Why Does Droplet Size Matter?
The human eye can only see objects as small as 40,000 nanometers (about the width of a fine human hair), but many respiratory droplets are much smaller than that. The cutoff point for calling a droplet a “droplet” is around 5,000-10,000 nanometers. Droplets smaller than that are called aerosols, or droplet nuclei.
Scientists estimate that when liquid sprays out of a person’s mouth during a cough, the droplets average around 110,000 nanometers in diameter, while the aerosols average around 3,000 nanometers. This is a very important size distinction because most surgical masks and high thread-count fabric masks have a small enough pore size that they can trap large droplets, but they aren’t very effective against aerosols.

This virus is droplet. Research says................

[Hunters1993]

WHO. Calls if droplet. Data says.........


Modes of transmission of the COVID-19 virus

Respiratory infections can be transmitted through droplets of different sizes: when the droplet particles are >5-10 μm in diameter they are referred to as respiratory droplets, and when then are <5μm in diameter, they are referred to as droplet nuclei.1 According to current evidence, COVID-19 virus is primarily transmitted between people through respiratory droplets and contact routes.2-7 In an analysis of 75,465 COVID-19 cases in China, airborne transmission was not reported.7


Research says................

[Hunters1993]

Droplet is caught by masks, sneezing in elbows, and Kleenex. So yes they do work when covid is called what it is. A droplet transmission...

[Hunters1993]

Current WHO recommendations emphasize the importance of rational and appropriate use of all PPE,20 not only masks, which requires correct and rigorous behavior from health care workers, particularly in doffing procedures and hand hygiene practices.21 WHO also recommends staff training on these recommendations,22 as well as the adequate procurement and availability of the necessary PPE and other supplies and facilities. Finally, WHO continues to emphasize the utmost importance of frequent hand hygiene, respiratory etiquette, and environmental cleaning and disinfection, as well as the importance of maintaining physical distances and avoidance of close, unprotected contact with people with fever or respiratory symptoms.

WHO
Research says.........

[cigar]

Mayo Clinic data July 2020. More up to date than April when “research” done for article.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus- ... t-20485449

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372

I sent a link to multiple random controlled trials, which are the gold standard in medicine. They found no evidence that masks even worn by medical personnel who are trained, did anything to inhibit viral trans.
You have sent an observational study (if it even qualifies for that) that claim effectiveness. Observational studies are worthless; by definition they cannot prove causal links.
CDC again opposing what you just sent..
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/ ... XLhxMP_bXs

Larger particles can be forcefully expelled by yelling, singing, coughing, sneezing etc. The large particles drop to the ground quickly; they are much heavier than air.
But one small enough passes through in both directions with a mask. what you exhale passes through and so does what you inhale. That's the physics, and it's also the result of RCTs of which there have been many over the decades. we've tried to figure out how to stop flu transmission for decades as the flu kills upwards of 60,000 a year in the United States alone -- and have never succeeded.

[The Exiled One]

N95 masks, ONLY WHEN RIGOROUSLY FITTED AND TESTED, stop approximately 95% of particles down to 0.300 microns. Anything smaller than 0.300 microns sails through an N95 mask, EVEN if it is rigorously custom-fitted.

This is wrong. They stop 95% of 0.3 micron particles. They stop a higher percent larger than that AND smaller than that.

I know a lot about this technology and some of you could probably guess why, but see this for a good explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdanPfQdCA

[Hunters1993]

Looks to me that two out of three graphs also support mask wearing.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/images/19-0994-F2.jpg

you didn't see my post was also from CDC... which tells me you really have an agenda.... set in your opinion...
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/ ... XLhxMP_bXs

but this one is better:
https://www.sott.net/article/434796-The ... of-Viruses

physics also doesn't lie. but i saw someone on the internet try to explain why 2+2=5.. i guess that is where we are at...

Wear your mask so you can feel protected... that is fine.

And tgat is why we will not have things back to normal for a long time. Right there.

Get Your Mask in and we will be out of this thing in a month. Sports can go on then I quarantee!!!

[Hunters1993]

https://www.nist.gov/blogs/taking-measu ... ad-disease