No State Tournament at the X this Spring....

[ClassAGuy]

Well a devasting article published by thb tribe for those of us hoping for a normal state tournament looks like MSHSL has already planing for an alternative event

Letters informing school leaders of the rising costs to be part of the Minnesota State High School League began arriving this week, hefty bills amounting to increases of up to 300% that one school administrator called “a kick in the gut.”

The league, in the letters, lays out its plan to alleviate a significant funding deficit caused by the COVID-19 pandemic by shifting the burden almost exclusively onto its member schools, many of which have their own budget challenges from the pandemic.

The shift comes as the league has shortened its sports seasons and budgeted for no state tournaments in the 2020-21 school year. Those tournaments have typically funded about 75% of the league’s annual budget, which is projected to shrink from $9 million to $5 million this year.

Schools will pay a new “COVID installment’’ membership fee that varies by enrollment, with the state’s biggest schools paying $11,000 for the school year and the smallest ones paying $1,000. Coupled with other fee changes, their total cost will be at least double the amount paid last year.

At St. Croix Lutheran, a West St. Paul parochial school with an enrollment of 500 students, the increase jumps 300% from $2,760 in 2019-20 to $11,082 this year, which school President Dr. Todd A. Russ called “beyond exorbitant. I feel like this is a kick in the gut.”

At Wayzata, with one of the state’s largest enrollments in the state at more than 3,000, the new tab for this school year is more than $21,000, up from about $5,400 last year. Activities director Jaime Sherwood acknowledged the league’s needs but added that he “would have liked to see the vision to be ahead of it.”

“It’s a quite a fee,” Sherwood said. “My concern is, that’s fine when the league is experiencing hardship. But what will it look like when things are rolling along again? Can money be returned to the schools? Or will the league add personnel and activities?”

With the pandemic curbing major gatherings for sports, the league has no plans for traditional state tournaments, instead planning on smaller, still-to-be-determined “culminating events’’ for sports.

The league’s financial outlook forced it to take action even before the coronavirus pandemic canceled the basketball tournaments and the spring sports season.

In February, the board of directors unanimously approved raising each school’s annual league membership fee from $120 to $160 for the 2020-21 school year. In addition, the fee that schools pay the league per activity also rose from $120 to $160. And new this school year: Schools are paying $1 per student enrolled, adjusted for free- and reduced-lunch numbers.

How those activity fee increases would potentially be passed down to individual students and families was left for schools to decide.

Then the fallout from the pandemic hit.

After shutting down winter tournaments on March 13, the league, which does not receive direct state or government funding, sought and received a Paycheck Protection Program loan. At its June 1 board meeting, the league said the loan was for $790,000 and that at least $500,000 could be forgiven. In the letter to schools, the league said it “anticipated forgiveness’’ of the loan.

“The COVID-19 pandemic has had and will continue to have dramatic impacts on the operations and financial situation’’ of the league, said the Sept. 3 letter signed by board President Blaine Novak and Executive Director Erich Martens.

In July the league board approved a task force to significantly overhaul what board treasurer Tom Jerome called “an unsustainable and in some ways archaic” approach to funding the organization based on tournaments.

Postponing football to the spring meant the league is without its second-highest revenue producing state tournament. Last year, football netted $889,945. Boys’ hockey led the way with $1,133,783 in revenue.

The new enrollment-based fee will generate about $3 million of the league’s projected $5 million budget this year, according to documents provided to schools with the letter.

In its letter, the league said it has already taken steps to reduce costs, including reducing its staff from 23.5 to 19.5 positions, freezing staff wages, eliminating or reducing costs of league publications such as tournament programs, and eliminating or reducing costs of league meetings by moving them online.

Russ said he believes the league hasn’t explored all potential options for solving its deficit and said he intends to contact the league to “say this is excessive.”

“Why not get a loan and stretch these payments out over a longer period of time, like other businesses do?” he asked. “There doesn’t appear to be a long-term strategy.”

[Stang5280]

Not a shocker, but nonetheless disappointing to actually see in print. Hopefully those “culminating events” will be a somewhat satisfying resolution to the various sports seasons.

Those COVID installment fees are going to be rough on school athletic departments, and I’m sure student participation fees are going to be raised significantly to cover those costs, particularly in more expensive sports like hockey and football.

[blueblood]

Right sizing state tournament venues based on rental cost vs. revenue is one area that should be explored. #Business101

[InThePipes]

It's undoubtedly time for MSHSL to exit stage left and allow MN Hockey to run the HS aged hockey program for the year.

[lakescountrylife]

It's undoubtedly time for MSHSL to exit stage left and allow MN Hockey to run the HS aged hockey program for the year.

Question: if MN Hockey “takes over”, where will the money for the ice time come from since high schools will not be on the hook?

[InThePipes]

It's undoubtedly time for MSHSL to exit stage left and allow MN Hockey to run the HS aged hockey program for the year.

Question: if MN Hockey “takes over”, where will the money for the ice time come from since high schools will not be on the hook?

Probably where it comes from the other 8 months of the year and where it came from for the 10 years they played hockey before they entered HS.

[karl(east)]

Can't wait for the 2021 Minnesota High School Hockey Culminating Event! Such lovely bureaucracy-speak. That said, I wouldn't completely write off the possibility of a state tournament, even if it has little attendance. Budgeting for no tournaments is probably a wise move on the MSHSL's part as they prepare for a worst-case scenario. That doesn't mean they couldn't conceivably have one if they believe conditions allow.

As blueblood said, right-sizing venues makes sense. If you're not going to be able to have fans, or more than friends and family, why go through the trouble of renting the X? The issue is probably even more extreme in some other sports. I've been to AA boys' soccer final, and while US Bank was a cool venue, there were also maybe 2,000 people there. I'm not sure what they're paying to rent these places (there's been talk on here in the past that the X is particularly exorbitant), but it probably has to be considered.

I have a lot of opinions on the MSHSL, but I'll leave it at two: one, they most certainly have administrative bloat and can find a few better ways to cut their costs. Passing it of their issues on strained schools seems terrible, though I am curious to know how other state high school leagues fund themselves, both in Covid and non-Covid times. (I'm not shocked to learn the MSHSL's funding structure is "archaic," but how so, exactly?) Two, the way they lose money on program printing absolutely blows my mind. It's a persistent issue, and the solution is not hard. Charge whatever it costs to print the programs (and then some!). It's basic math. What am I missing there?

[Wise Old Man]

It's undoubtedly time for MSHSL to exit stage left and allow MN Hockey to run the HS aged hockey program for the year.

Question: if MN Hockey “takes over”, where will the money for the ice time come from since high schools will not be on the hook?

Associations will have to charge players/parents some type of fee to cover the costs for ice and possibly some type of jersey. How much will depend on if it's a half season or whole one.

[lakescountrylife]

It's undoubtedly time for MSHSL to exit stage left and allow MN Hockey to run the HS aged hockey program for the year.

Question: if MN Hockey “takes over”, where will the money for the ice time come from since high schools will not be on the hook?

Probably where it comes from the other 8 months of the year and where it came from for the 10 years they played hockey before they entered HS.

So 2-3 hours a day for practice with U19AA/A and U19B. For games, five hours for the U19AA/A and U19B. Add in the families needing to take care of travel. They probably wouldn’t be able to use the high school jerseys, so add in that cost. That is a lot of $$’s.

How many associations have (enough) USA Hockey certified U19 coaches?

[Usthockey13]

Question: if MN Hockey “takes over”, where will the money for the ice time come from since high schools will not be on the hook?

Probably where it comes from the other 8 months of the year and where it came from for the 10 years they played hockey before they entered HS.

So 2-3 hours a day for practice with U19AA/A and U19B. For games, five hours for the U19AA/A and U19B. Add in the families needing to take care of travel. They probably wouldn’t be able to use the high school jerseys, so add in that cost. That is a lot of $$’s.

How many associations have (enough) USA Hockey certified U19 coaches?

Ive heard that if MN hokey have a bridge season of sorts till MSHSL has a season, those teams will be able to wear their current jerseys and the coaches will be waived on the USA hockey certification. S

[jg2112]

Probably where it comes from the other 8 months of the year and where it came from for the 10 years they played hockey before they entered HS.

So 2-3 hours a day for practice with U19AA/A and U19B. For games, five hours for the U19AA/A and U19B. Add in the families needing to take care of travel. They probably wouldn’t be able to use the high school jerseys, so add in that cost. That is a lot of $$’s.

How many associations have (enough) USA Hockey certified U19 coaches?

Ive heard that if MN hokey have a bridge season of sorts till MSHSL has a season, those teams will be able to wear their current jerseys and the coaches will be waived on the USA hockey certification. S

Is the MSHSL aware that MN Hockey and other organizations have tentative plans to organize "bridge" seasons?

More importantly, if they are aware, what's the benefit the MSHSL gains from allowing another entity to run a hypothetical 2 month season in their stead?

My high level takeaway is that the League is going to charge an insanely high rate this year for half the product, without the carrot of a post-season tournament. I'm not sure I see the benefit of my skater taking part.

[Rails Hockey]

So 2-3 hours a day for practice with U19AA/A and U19B. For games, five hours for the U19AA/A and U19B. Add in the families needing to take care of travel. They probably wouldn’t be able to use the high school jerseys, so add in that cost. That is a lot of $$’s.

How many associations have (enough) USA Hockey certified U19 coaches?

Ive heard that if MN hokey have a bridge season of sorts till MSHSL has a season, those teams will be able to wear their current jerseys and the coaches will be waived on the USA hockey certification. S

Is the MSHSL aware that MN Hockey and other organizations have tentative plans to organize "bridge" seasons?

More importantly, if they are aware, what's the benefit the MSHSL gains from allowing another entity to run a hypothetical 2 month season in their stead?

My high level takeaway is that the League is going to charge an insanely high rate this year for half the product, without the carrot of a post-season tournament. I'm not sure I see the benefit of my skater taking part.

Yes, they are aware. They don't benefit from it at all and could potentially stand to lose from it. The kids obviously benefit, as they get to play and should have much more flexibility with their schedule. That is ultimately what it should be about. I agree, if they start out U19 and it goes well, what would be the reason to switch to a High School Season with fewer games and a limited or no Postseason???? It will be interesting to see if teams just decide to finish out a U19 season with full playoffs and State Tourney, or if MN Hockey even allows that option. Maybe they don't want to step on toes, I have no idea. But the reality is that the MSHSL has no leverage with MN Hockey. I would be interested to hear if anyone can think of any benefits of switching over to High School halfway through, other than maybe financially. But with the new fee structures maybe there isn't even a financial benefit anymore. If it's going to cost an arm and a leg, maybe individual Schools don't even want to offer it for a year and would be happy to let MN Hockey run a whole a Season????

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. If nothing else, this obviously puts some pressure on the MSHSL to run as close to normal of a Season as possible, or risk losing the whole thing for a year. I think that's a good thing.

[ironranger2]

I am having a hard time seeing what the uproar on the 300% fee increase is. If you start with a very low number to begin with, of course the % increase is going to be high.

Take both examples listed in the article...

St. Croix Lutheran (500 students) has their cost go up a total of $8,332. Assuming that only 20% of their students compete in MSHSL activities, that amounts to an increase of $83.32 per participant.

Wayzata increases fee increases $15,600. Assuming only 20% of their students compete in activities, they would see an increase of $26.00 per participant.

There is no doubt there is probably bloated administration in the high school league, but the schools come off as sounding like there going to need to cancel sports because of this.

[ironranger2]

How much do school districts contribute towards ice costs for boys hockey? Would be interesting to see the difference between metro and outstate high schools.

[Schotzy]

How much do school districts contribute towards ice costs for boys hockey? Would be interesting to see the difference between metro and outstate high schools.

I think who owns the ice is a consideration as well. In some cases, the high schools already "own" their own sheet. That does not mean there is no cost involved, but it certainly plays a part in this.

[InThePipes]

Ive heard that if MN hokey have a bridge season of sorts till MSHSL has a season, those teams will be able to wear their current jerseys and the coaches will be waived on the USA hockey certification. S

Is the MSHSL aware that MN Hockey and other organizations have tentative plans to organize "bridge" seasons?

More importantly, if they are aware, what's the benefit the MSHSL gains from allowing another entity to run a hypothetical 2 month season in their stead?

My high level takeaway is that the League is going to charge an insanely high rate this year for half the product, without the carrot of a post-season tournament. I'm not sure I see the benefit of my skater taking part.

Yes, they are aware. They don't benefit from it at all and could potentially stand to lose from it. The kids obviously benefit, as they get to play and should have much more flexibility with their schedule. That is ultimately what it should be about. I agree, if they start out U19 and it goes well, what would be the reason to switch to a High School Season with fewer games and a limited or no Postseason???? It will be interesting to see if teams just decide to finish out a U19 season with full playoffs and State Tourney, or if MN Hockey even allows that option. Maybe they don't want to step on toes, I have no idea. But the reality is that the MSHSL has no leverage with MN Hockey. I would be interested to hear if anyone can think of any benefits of switching over to High School halfway through, other than maybe financially. But with the new fee structures maybe there isn't even a financial benefit anymore. If it's going to cost an arm and a leg, maybe individual Schools don't even want to offer it for a year and would be happy to let MN Hockey run a whole a Season????

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. If nothing else, this obviously puts some pressure on the MSHSL to run as close to normal of a Season as possible, or risk losing the whole thing for a year. I think that's a good thing.

The possible benefits I can think of are:

1) MSHSL could still profit from a State Tournament, but the likelihood of attendance being allowed is probably very slim, so the only revenue would come from the TV contract (and I don't know the financial arrangement with 45TV, does anyone else?)

2) By rolling into the MSHSL season a couple of weeks/months in I suppose it could reduce/prevent shenanigans surrounding players being rostered on other HS teams that they wouldn't have ordinarily played with?

[Rails Hockey]

Is the MSHSL aware that MN Hockey and other organizations have tentative plans to organize "bridge" seasons?

More importantly, if they are aware, what's the benefit the MSHSL gains from allowing another entity to run a hypothetical 2 month season in their stead?

My high level takeaway is that the League is going to charge an insanely high rate this year for half the product, without the carrot of a post-season tournament. I'm not sure I see the benefit of my skater taking part.

Yes, they are aware. They don't benefit from it at all and could potentially stand to lose from it. The kids obviously benefit, as they get to play and should have much more flexibility with their schedule. That is ultimately what it should be about. I agree, if they start out U19 and it goes well, what would be the reason to switch to a High School Season with fewer games and a limited or no Postseason???? It will be interesting to see if teams just decide to finish out a U19 season with full playoffs and State Tourney, or if MN Hockey even allows that option. Maybe they don't want to step on toes, I have no idea. But the reality is that the MSHSL has no leverage with MN Hockey. I would be interested to hear if anyone can think of any benefits of switching over to High School halfway through, other than maybe financially. But with the new fee structures maybe there isn't even a financial benefit anymore. If it's going to cost an arm and a leg, maybe individual Schools don't even want to offer it for a year and would be happy to let MN Hockey run a whole a Season????

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. If nothing else, this obviously puts some pressure on the MSHSL to run as close to normal of a Season as possible, or risk losing the whole thing for a year. I think that's a good thing.

The possible benefits I can think of are:

1) MSHSL could still profit from a State Tournament, but the likelihood of attendance being allowed is probably very slim, so the only revenue would come from the TV contract (and I don't know the financial arrangement with 45TV, does anyone else?)

2) By rolling into the MSHSL season a couple of weeks/months in I suppose it could reduce/prevent shenanigans surrounding players being rostered on other HS teams that they wouldn't have ordinarily played with?

Sorry, I meant benefits to the Players, not to the MSHSL. The Players and Parents would ultimately decide where they play if MN Hockey allowed for a full Season. What is their incentive to leave MN Hockey where they presumably would have a lot more control over their schedule, travel and many more games? Why would they want to switch over to High School to play way fewer games and most likely be suffocated by a bunch of restrictive rules and be subject to getting the whole thing shut down at the drop of a hat? According to the e-mail shared yesterday, there will be no state Tournament for Hockey, so what reasons would be left to leave U19 for High School?

[InThePipes]

Yes, they are aware. They don't benefit from it at all and could potentially stand to lose from it. The kids obviously benefit, as they get to play and should have much more flexibility with their schedule. That is ultimately what it should be about. I agree, if they start out U19 and it goes well, what would be the reason to switch to a High School Season with fewer games and a limited or no Postseason???? It will be interesting to see if teams just decide to finish out a U19 season with full playoffs and State Tourney, or if MN Hockey even allows that option. Maybe they don't want to step on toes, I have no idea. But the reality is that the MSHSL has no leverage with MN Hockey. I would be interested to hear if anyone can think of any benefits of switching over to High School halfway through, other than maybe financially. But with the new fee structures maybe there isn't even a financial benefit anymore. If it's going to cost an arm and a leg, maybe individual Schools don't even want to offer it for a year and would be happy to let MN Hockey run a whole a Season????

It's going to be really interesting to see how this plays out. If nothing else, this obviously puts some pressure on the MSHSL to run as close to normal of a Season as possible, or risk losing the whole thing for a year. I think that's a good thing.

The possible benefits I can think of are:

1) MSHSL could still profit from a State Tournament, but the likelihood of attendance being allowed is probably very slim, so the only revenue would come from the TV contract (and I don't know the financial arrangement with 45TV, does anyone else?)

2) By rolling into the MSHSL season a couple of weeks/months in I suppose it could reduce/prevent shenanigans surrounding players being rostered on other HS teams that they wouldn't have ordinarily played with?

Sorry, I meant benefits to the Players, not to the MSHSL. The Players and Parents would ultimately decide where they play if MN Hockey allowed for a full Season. What is their incentive to leave MN Hockey where they presumably would have a lot more control over their schedule, travel and many more games? Why would they want to switch over to High School to play way fewer games and most likely be suffocated by a bunch of restrictive rules and be subject to getting the whole thing shut down at the drop of a hat? According to the e-mail shared yesterday, there will be no state Tournament for Hockey, so what reasons would be left to leave U19 for High School?

Right, I see zero benefit for the players and only additional risk that the season is more likely to be shut down.

[Wise Old Man]

Probably where it comes from the other 8 months of the year and where it came from for the 10 years they played hockey before they entered HS.

So 2-3 hours a day for practice with U19AA/A and U19B. For games, five hours for the U19AA/A and U19B. Add in the families needing to take care of travel. They probably wouldn’t be able to use the high school jerseys, so add in that cost. That is a lot of $$’s.

How many associations have (enough) USA Hockey certified U19 coaches?

Ive heard that if MN hokey have a bridge season of sorts till MSHSL has a season, those teams will be able to wear their current jerseys and the coaches will be waived on the USA hockey certification. S

As "Rails" already stated, yes, the MSHSL is fully aware of the plan/possibility. However, from what I was told yesterday, after having had a week or two to really think things over, many of the high school coaches are now saying they don't think it makes much sense to do just a "bridge season" -- set up teams thru MH from mid-October thru Christmas if the MSHSL decides to delay until say Jan. 1st. Mainly due to the stress it would place on the individual youth associations to manage setting up the teams, figuring out ice time between that mid-October to mid-November time frame before the ice the high schools had already booked becomes available, and coming up with jerseys. Some are bought by the actual schools, some are purchased and owned by the booster clubs.

To be fair, you can get a one color, mesh, practice jersey with a single color number on it for pretty cheap. Have each team order a white/gray one and one that's a darker color that is one of that respective high school's two primary jersey colors. Example -- Grand Rapids either black or orange.

The other bigger expense would be officials. Currently, Minnesota Hockey is having all youth games (including Bantam A/AA and Jr. Gold) using the two-official system to minimize the number of participants in the game to reduce Covid exposure/transmission. Unfortunately, due to the speed of the average varsity game, you really can't effectively officiate that level with only two officials. And, the only current three official system that USA Hockey sanctions is the 1 referee/2 linesman system. And, there are very few USA Hockey officials that can effectively skate the 1/2 system as a referee, that have the judgement and experience to call a high school level game. This would likely mean that Minnesota Hockey might have to allow the 2 referee/2 linesman system to be used. And, since the average varsity referee/linesman rate statewide is now around $95/$80, associations would be looking at about $330-$350 per game.

Regarding the coaches...yes, the MSHSL coaches that "attend" the State Coaches Association Fall Clinic each year receive credit for their USA Hockey certification. However, I've been told by two different coaches that the schools are saying they won't be allowing their coaches to be involved in the Minnesota Hockey season unless they choose to officially resign from their positions first. I believe because their coaching contracts technically start when the high school season normally starts and thus, the schools don't want or feel they are able to pay their coaches if they're also coaching a MH team.

Now, we all know there are often individuals in our community that would probably make effective coaches or, who coached a number of years ago but, haven't been USA Hockey current for a number of years. So, my guess is that Minnesota Hockey would likely allow for temporary coaching cards for those types of individuals as long as they did an on-line Level 1 clinic and, could pass their SafeSport/background checks.

From what I'm hearing, I'm starting to believe that the only way that Minnesota Hockey has a U19 season is if the MSHSL chooses not to play completely.

[InThePipes]

From what I'm hearing, I'm starting to believe that the only way that Minnesota Hockey has a U19 season is if the MSHSL chooses not to play completely.

Yeah, while I appreciate the effort and out of the box thinking, the bridge season never seemed to make much sense, it should be all or none IMHO. Hopefully they come to a reasonable decision on this and one that's in the best interest of the players.

[WestMetro]

Bureaucracy Bureacracy Bureacrazzy


More and more likely :

- exodus to juniors anyone that can make rosters ,
- extended high school elite league season with infrastructure largely in place
- extended blades season with infrastructure largely in place
- new J Gold teams for kids who want to play In that venue
- new additional private leagues
- adhoc unofficial teams/leagues in other selected areas where they have ice and no desire for bureaucracy

Irony - probably almost as many kids (80+%?)playing hockey for almost as long as the usual season

So what was accomplished ?

[WestMetro]

I don’t suppose the legislature could Get together next week In their special session , and pass a quick law to hold athletics programs and everyone affiliated with them harmless against a covid outbreak , so long as everyone acting reasonably in accordance with the sports protocol and Minn dept of health guidelines

It would be amazing how things would fall into place if this happened

[blueblood]

Lots of moving parts. Some food for thought.

If the MSHSL season started late, wouldn’t a school contract reflect the reduced season duration thus the coach is not being paid?

Why would a coach need to resign HD position to coach MN Hockey if the MSHSL season hadn’t started?

How is this different from all of the HS coaches who work AAA, Tier 1, Elite League, etc in the fall?

MSHSL allows baseball and softball coaches leeway in the summer. Again why would this be different?

#AskingForAFriend

[ClassAGuy]

Lots of moving parts. Some food for thought.

If the MSHSL season started late, wouldn’t a school contract reflect the reduced season duration thus the coach is not being paid?

Why would a coach need to resign HD position to coach MN Hockey if the MSHSL season hadn’t started?

How is this different from all of the HS coaches who work AAA, Tier 1, Elite League, etc in the fall?

MSHSL allows baseball and softball coaches leeway in the summer. Again why would this be different?

#AskingForAFriend

Head coaches cant coach their players in the Fall.

Not sure your logic on that one

[Wise Old Man]

Lots of moving parts. Some food for thought.

If the MSHSL season started late, wouldn’t a school contract reflect the reduced season duration thus the coach is not being paid?

Why would a coach need to resign HD position to coach MN Hockey if the MSHSL season hadn’t started?

How is this different from all of the HS coaches who work AAA, Tier 1, Elite League, etc in the fall?

MSHSL allows baseball and softball coaches leeway in the summer. Again why would this be different?

#AskingForAFriend

Answer....I have no idea, I'm only repeating what the high school coaches I've spoken with are telling me. I know you're more directly involved in that specific area than I am so, was actually hoping you might be able to provide better clarity. Maybe it's a district specific HR issue? I realize the season obviously won't have started but, it's within the time frame of when the normal season would be playing. Could that be the difference? In all honesty, I'm just throwing darts at this point. And, as usually occurs when I play the real thing, I'm likely missing the bullseye badly.