Checking

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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hockeymomma2020
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:45 pm

Checking

Post by hockeymomma2020 » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:48 am

Hey all. Just a thought, why not checking in girls' hockey? <br><br>Pros and Cons... <p></p><i></i>

Artificial Ice
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Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:30 pm

Re: Checking

Post by Artificial Ice » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:41 pm

maybe down the road it will happen, but i doubt it. right now, there are just to many girls playing varsity hockey (due to alot of new programs starting up) that aren't that great on their skates, thus, checking could be dangerous. <p></p><i></i>

hockeysense
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:26 pm

Checking

Post by hockeysense » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:15 pm

There you go again with that basketball mentality. Hockey would be alot safer if checking was allowed. All we have now are alot of girls wondering if they are going to be hit. Atleast if there was checking the skaters could be better prepared for a hit. I would have to agree to disagree with you on this one. <p></p><i></i>

easyscore
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Re: Checking

Post by easyscore » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:28 pm

(This message was left blank) <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... syscore</A> at: 8/18/05 5:45 pm<br></i>

brookyone
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The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by brookyone » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:44 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Hockey would be alot safer if checking was allowed.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>I hesitate to even become involved in a discussion on this subject again <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>but</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> I don't feel this oft repeated argument is anything more than theory or conjecture. I personally believe checking will result in more injuries than currently occur regardless of any "preparedness" factor among players. What I would be interested in seeing is a comparison between boy's / girl's hockey regarding numbers of injuries. My theory is far larger numbers of injuries occur in boy's / men's hockey due at least in part to legal (and otherwise) checking regardless of the players preparedness and experience playing a checking game. Just for info purposes, I'm a fan of both the boy's and girl's game and personally don't see a need for a change in girl's / women's hockey...or a need to make the female version the same (as many seem to believe it must be). To me, it's just a little bit different game and I enjoy boy's and girl's hockey and think each style has it's own merits. One possibility I see with checking for the girl's is a potential to slow the game down...I wouldn't like that personally. Of course none of this is to say it won't happen someday...just my opinion. I don't make the rules. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ookyone</A> at: 8/18/05 6:46 pm<br></i>

coachcorner
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Re: The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by coachcorner » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:23 am

brookyone, I agree with you on this..Its so hard to say if it would be good or bad.You know the pros and cons. It would slow the game down thats for sure. But then would we loose girls that would stop playing? I think so..I know there are many girls that have played boys hockey through the peewees and they could handle that change with no problem. But then you have girls that have never played boys hockey at any level other than mite level..Don't get me wrong I would love to see it happen but I'm affraid it would hurt girls hockey. <p></p><i></i>

RLStars
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Location: State of Hockey

Re: The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by RLStars » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:06 am

I'd say, keep checking out of girls hockey. Let the players develope thier skills without having to worry about a bigger, slower player trying to take them out instead of keep up. I would rather see stick handling and passing, then bruising and bashing from the girls.<br><br>Canada has started checking for boys at squirts. I'd like to see boys start checking at bantams instead of peewees. That would keep more girls in peewees longer and give everyone more time to develope individual skills before the hits start flying. I'm not saying 12u hockey isn't good hockey, but even Natalie Darwitz says the girls should play with the boys as long as its physically possible. At peewee, there is also a large range in size and maturity, but by bantams, that gap begins to narrow.<br> <p></p><i></i>

hockeyrube
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Re: The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by hockeyrube » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:29 am

IMO - Keep checking out of Girls Hockey completely. There is plenty of physical contact in the girls game already !!! Just go to a high school game and see for yourself. If you make body checking legal, the game will slow down, the hands will come up in opposing players faces, smaller players will get run over by bigger players, holding/clutching/grabbing will increase, and the finesse will slowly disappear. <br><br>Enjoy the purity of the girls game - it's becoming a faster game each year as the overall skill development continues to improve. Many of us old timers really enjoy watching the girls game versus the boys for these reasons.<br><br>Rube is out <p></p><i></i>

SEMetro
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Re: The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by SEMetro » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:22 am

My two cents: <br><br>Allowing checking won't impact the speed of the game. Slow kids have a hard if not impossible time checking fast kids. <br><br>IMO, what slows the game down is stick work. By high school, I've noticed some girls using excessive stick work to slow people down. I doubt allowing checking will decrease the stick-work (See NHL), but those that want to increase the speed of the game need to blame the right culprit. <br><br>I haven't seen too many girls have a hard time adjusting to checking in PW's. Frankly, the most vicious hits are in PW C games not PW A games because you see recreational skaters playing with their heads down. Checking requires kids get their heads up which helps with the passing. Most accomplished girls high school varsity players would not have problems adjusting to checking. <br><br>One of the biggest problems with the checking issue is the flexibility of the rules in the girls game. I am familiar with the body contact versus checking rule. But watching a U12 game where a ton of legal body contact is called as checking (because parents scream everytime a kid goes down), and then watching a high school game where a modest amount of checking isn't called, and then watching the college game where a lot of checking is allowed -- is inconsistent. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

hockeymomma2020
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Re: The age old recurring "checking" controversy

Post by hockeymomma2020 » Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:32 am

Hey all. These all seem like excellent, and valid points. I was watching many games at the Int'l Cup a couple weeks back and i'm sure all of us who were there noticed the officiating wasn't exactly the best in the world. My point in bringing this up is that there are certain players in each age group who consistantly step up in the neutral zone and in the corners, who flat out check...shoulder to shoulder...and, what I consistantly saw (or didn't see for that matter) were these players not being called for it on NUMEROUS occasions. How do girls in this sport defend themselves when the officials don't call checking like they are supposed to? In boys hockey, a player can "get another player's number" and pay him a visit later in the game and they can do it legally while leaving their impression. I feel that the majority of officials i've seen in my brief time in girls' hockey is sub-par (not all have been bad, but unfortunately most) and they tend to call it like a boys game. If no checking, and we teach these kids not to retaliate, what do they do when they are not protected? <p></p><i></i>

LloydBraun
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Starting all over

Post by LloydBraun » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:25 am

I am sure this point has already been covered, but if checking were to be allowed in girls hockey, the sport of hockey would need to be taught all over again to girls. By saying that they can just pick up how to check and how to take a check from watchin T.V. or watching a guys game is absurd. Coaches starting at a young age would need to teach the girls how to check cleanly (not leading with your head, not using you stick) also they would need to go over penalties like charging, boarding, and also they would need to develop the girls abilities alot more. Alot of high quality girls games that i have seen there still are a consistent amount of girls skating with their heads down going through center ice or going into corners. If checking were allowed they would need to improve their skating and awareness. The reason girls can get away with having their head down is because they have never had to worry about someone coming after them. Girls hockey is fine how it is.<br><br>Just my 2 cents....... <p></p><i></i>

brookyone
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Re: Starting all over

Post by brookyone » Fri Aug 19, 2005 12:26 pm

...and on the officiating front, I have to wonder, or more accurately question if we're ever likely to see an end to inconsistency in, disagreement and or complaints about officiating whether it be boy's / girl's, men's / women's, checking / no checking hockey. I just believe myself, no matter what changes you do or do not make (I'm still much in favor of no changes to girl's hockey) you're always going to have an inconsistency in officiating factor present along with the associated questioning and complaints...just seems to be as much an unavoidable part of the game as anything else...when humans are involved. I can't envision ever eliminating it from the game under any circumstances. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p074.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ookyone</A> at: 8/19/05 12:27 pm<br></i>

hockeymomma2020
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 9:45 pm

checking

Post by hockeymomma2020 » Fri Aug 19, 2005 9:38 pm

Thanks, all, for everyone's imput. I appreciate everyone's personal view on the game. In no way am I implying to change the girls' game. I am new to the girls' side of the game and I appreciate everyone taking time to fill me in on an already (apparently) exhaused topic of the girls' game. <br><br> It does tick me off that the girls who do consistantly check, and get away with it, are not given a taste of their own medicine. I've seen too many injuries caused by players going outside of the set rules and no exceptions were, or are being, taken to that player's style of play. But, as i'm realizing at a rapid pace, some things don't, and won't, change. <br><br>Nonetheless, the girls' game is fun to watch and i'm enjoying watching the game grow and the state of MN produce many top-rate players! Minnesota is, without a doubt, the state of hockey! <p></p><i></i>

r2d2hockey
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:47 pm

Re: checking

Post by r2d2hockey » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:00 am

Having been very involved in the development of girls hockey in my association I will tell you that allowing checking in girls hockey will have a detriment impact on the number of players entering the sport. Many of the our young players have parents who have no hockey background. And believe me, it is the parents that you have to sell on getting their daughters into the sport. One of the major points I have had to repeatedly tell new parents is that there is no checking and that the physical contact that happens increases as the girls get older and more skilled. I know that many of these parents would not allow their girls to even start if they thought that there is going to be checking.<br> <p></p><i></i>

Ozzie89
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Re: checking

Post by Ozzie89 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:32 pm

what i dont get is why girls can play in boys hockey and check and its ok but if they play girls they cant. wouldnt it be safer 4 a girl 2 play on a girls team compared 2 playin on the guys <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... Ozzie89</A> at: 10/20/05 3:33 pm<br></i>

coachcorner
Posts: 45
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Re: checking

Post by coachcorner » Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:58 pm

Not sure what you mean? But its there choice what they want to do. Wendal did it for a year, then decided to play the last 2 with the girls. If I understand what your saying. Or are you saying that girls should check? If so I don't want to even go there. I have already said what I thought about it. Girls hockey is just fine the way it is. <p></p><i></i>

ghshockeyfan
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Re: checking

Post by ghshockeyfan » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:37 pm

Girls have many options now. More than boys, which is understandable I guess. I think that one thing that's real hard for a lot of people to understand is when a girl beats out a boy for an A team, etc.<br><br>Personally, those girls that play boys are targeted I think. Maybe not the way they were years ago, but I think they are - especialy at the peewee & higher levels.<br><br>What's scary I think is that the boys seem to be getting bigger and bigger (check out a HS roster today vs even 10 years ago size/height/weight wise. It's amazing. I think all pro sports have seen size grow too in the last 20-30 years.<br><br>That aside, maybe some girls can pull this off based on superior skill and females being more mature at a younger age? My fear is that when they get to the Peewee and especially Bantam levels that the size discrepancy that usually exists would put them at great physical risk.<br><br>Obviously playing the guys game may make a girl better for a while, but I believe that they won't touch the puck enough or will develop bad habits as you get to the oldest youth levels with boys. Personally, I believe that their individual skills will develop more on a girls team as the nature of the game is more pure skill oriented w/o the body checking. I think that stick skills including shooting, passing, and stickhandling develop better for girls playing girls hockey in peewees and bantams (U12/14).<br><br>I believe that the wendell and darwitz like exceptions always exist, but those players were unique not only for their time, but even today based on skill alone.<br><br>Just my observations.<br><br>While I miss the degree of body contact element of the boys game as a girls coach, I do like to see skill dominate instead. And, I think anyone knows that body positionment and contact is still a part of any game at any level regardless of legality of body checking. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ckeyfan</A> at: 10/20/05 4:40 pm<br></i>

StPaulHockeyFan
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Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:12 pm

Checking; A slight different look at it

Post by StPaulHockeyFan » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:21 pm

I agree with the majority on this issue. Checking , with the way it is currently enforced in boys hockey, would hurt the sport and many players. When two good girl hockey teams meet, nothing prettier than the open ice speed and talent the ladies can show. But I have seen to many times a referee making a bad call because of contact and not checking. How many times do you see a forward flying down the ice, the defensemen angles her to the boards, the forward makes her cut in, the defensement steps up to poke check the puck or get control of it and gets called for checking!! Or the infamous pinching, I have seen many times a defensmen perform a textbook pinch, never having her stick come off the ice or the hands off the stick. Yet she will be called for interference or checking because the skater moves into her or the boards. Refereeing boys and girls hockey is different and I wish more emphases would be placed on that. On the other hand when a stronger team is dominating a weaker team, the referees almost have to use the “power of the whistle” to keep player safe. I am not intentionally bashing referees, I have been one for many years at the youth level. Just something I have noticed at the girls high level over the last few years. <p></p><i></i>

brookyone
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Re: Checking; A slight different look at it

Post by brookyone » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:48 pm

For the record, I think officiating the girls / womens "no checking" game is more difficult, perhaps even considerably more difficult than officiating a checking game...when you want / have to allow a certain amount of physical contact (it is hockey after all) but technically enforce the no checking rules...no easy task in my opinion.<br><br>I also agree with ghs comments (if I'm understanding correctly) regarding girls playing on boys teams and the perceived benefits thereof. I think it's a relatively select few who would possibly benefit from playing on boys teams at any age level (a complete 180 from my opinion of a couple years ago when I believed it was very beneficial for all). The select few would be the rare ultra gifted young lady who could better compete in the checking game as she progressed thru the age brackets or even to the high school / JV level. Some I think do benefit however. There's one right now playing NCAA D-I who as I understand, played / practiced with the boys HS JV team regularly...in my opinion it shows. Other than those players I think playing on girls teams with the potential for far more puck contact, handling, interaction or whatever you choose to call it will in the end make them a better player...particularly in light of the greatly increased and much more widespread talent / skills that have obviously developed among the ladies. <br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p100.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUserP ... ookyone</A> at: 10/20/05 9:52 pm<br></i>

slapshooter
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If girls were "checked".....by SS

Post by slapshooter » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:38 am

There'd be a LOT more crying on the ice !<br><br>S<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> S <p></p><i></i>

slapshooter
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Stop girls checking before it starts.....by SS

Post by slapshooter » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:49 am

Plus, if you teach girls about the art of checking, they <br><br>might carry it over to their marriages and end up <br><br>checking their husbands once in a while !<br><br>Only into the refrigerator instead of the boards. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>Can't have none of that! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :evil --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif ALT=":evil"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br><br>S<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8o --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/nerd.gif ALT="8o"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> S <p></p><i></i>

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