HS ELITE LEAGUE

[oldguy]

oldguy,

I know what you were saying, but i could not miss the chance for a dig at HA.

So do you think that with so few high end players on a high school team that it breeds the I'll do it myself attitude? Or simply the selects mentality of skating from end to end to get noticed?

By both definition and observation;

The "Elite" league players are all "high end" (your words) or they would not be in the league (right?)
However, when playing to an audience where they perceive that they must perform as individuals in order to be noticed.......they will do just that... at the expense of a mediocre TEAM performance. Human nature at its worst.......

There is no vested interest in final team standings, win-loss record, or over-all team performance. Perhaps a little pride on behalf of the out-state vs citiy boyz, (or in this case SSM boys) but that is about it....

Its all about the "I", thats not in TEAM....

Look at the way the stats are reported... You can tell that a guy from Minnetonka is collecting/reporting stats, as in every point category, the Minnetonka player with that point total has his name first....instead of how most objective stats would be displayed.....by alphabetical order within each category.

Even the scorekeeper/reporter has an "I".

[radar]

oldguy,

I noticed that team southwest had thier names on the back of the sweaters, is that new for this year?

[oldguy]

oldguy,

I noticed that team southwest had thier names on the back of the sweaters, is that new for this year?

The "I" lives on....

Its time for my medication and a nap....you know us old timers, all this excitement is just too much for my ticker!

[Wisco]

Yes some have risen to the top. Looks like Wisconsin has a better team this year then last.

Yeah, Wisconsin does have a improved team from last year, it fluctuates each year because some kids from the south of wisconsin dont even try out due to the fact that the practices are a good 3 hours away.

[pioneers]

If the league would let us play 20 minute periods the kids would not be so worried about getting enough ice time and not try to stretch their shifts out. I am the Section 1 coach and I don't know how to make em change on the first shift of the period if they don't come to the bench when you holler for a change. Seems to me that they scored on two of the shifts and did not get scored on. They were to long though. We need to fix that.

You must be in EliteII? Elite I does play 20 minute periods.

[breakout]

With all respect.....it's simple.... actions speak louder.. tell them 45 sec max...don't do it...you sit.
Of course they won't like it, but it's really the only effective way.
You can be a friend or a coach.. once they sit they usually won't do it again unless you become slack on the rule, you have to be fair and use common sense, ie: if there pinned down in the D zone you don't want them to bail out for fear of punishment.
They can easily figure out that I can skate a whole bunch of 30-45 sec. shifts or I can skate one 2 min. shift and sit the rest of the period.
Your overall team play will improve and you will out tempo your opponents.

Good luck!

I still think shock collars would be effective....

You and I are on the same page on this one

[breakout]

So do you think that with so few high end players on a high school team that it breeds the I'll do it myself attitude? Or simply the selects mentality of skating from end to end to get noticed?

I saw Team Southwest play a couple of weeks ago. Three of their D are all about end to end rushes. Several times they exposed their team and partners to odd man rushes and consequently goals against their TEAM.

Unfortunately, the stats page only references offensive #s. Plus/minus is an important individual and team stat. Would love to see those numbers.

I would agree with the length of shifts. I saw some of those same guys and others on both teams take excessively long shifts.

[Sioux Fan]

I probably am not going to bench the group that has been actually scoring on a regular basis. I think it is the other lines responsibility to make me want to play them.

I am not a kindergarten teacher. I want to help guys figure out what it takes to make plays that matter and to be consisitant about it.

We did talk about the shift being too long. But I believe in the longest one that I was the most irrated by a goal was scored under the cross bar on the best goalie we have played so far. It was hard for me to chew to hard. I really like guys that want to be on the ice making plays and are not afraid to stick their neck out and try to do something. I think we are making a whole bunch of players that think getting to the bench is the safest place to be.... I like competitors that want to make plays period.

If they give up chances and a goal I am all over em.... I would rather have guys that are getting results feeling that if I only stay a little longer we are going to get this done.

Rather than I am glad this shift is over and nothing bad happened!

I also let that group know that 2 or 3 goals for them on a weekend is an underacheivement.

[Can't Never Tried]

I probably am not going to bench the group that has been actually scoring on a regular basis. I think it is the other lines responsibility to make me want to play them.

I am not a kindergarten teacher. I want to help guys figure out what it takes to make plays that matter and to be consisitant about it.

We did talk about the shift being too long. But I believe in the longest one that I was the most irrated by a goal was scored under the cross bar on the best goalie we have played so far. It was hard for me to chew to hard. I really like guys that want to be on the ice making plays and are not afraid to stick their neck out and try to do something. I think we are making a whole bunch of players that think getting to the bench is the safest place to be.... I like competitors that want to make plays period.

If they give up chances and a goal I am all over em.... I would rather have guys that are getting results feeling that if I only stay a little longer we are going to get this done.

Rather than I am glad this shift is over and nothing bad happened!

I also let that group know that 2 or 3 goals for them on a weekend is an underacheivement.

That is a great counter point!
But where do you draw the line? it's hard to say but sooner or later they learn...I never would think it's a race to the bench so nothing bad happens, in fact that's a rather confusing statement...wouldn't the idea be that physiologically I can only push my hardest so long before I will reach the point at which my body can't recover, and allow me to go 100%.

It's a fact that once the body gets tired the mind can't focus as well, so think about that when you want them to make the plays that matter.

Maybe I just have a different view on this, but every good team needs 3 lines..they ain't getting better on the bench and it's usually later in the game that these long shifters finally gas out and games get lost.

[Sioux Fan]

The real truth is there is no line and if there was I am looking for guys who want to get on the edge and cross it....

[oldguy]

I probably am not going to bench the group that has been actually scoring on a regular basis. I think it is the other lines responsibility to make me want to play them.

I am not a kindergarten teacher. I want to help guys figure out what it takes to make plays that matter and to be consisitant about it.

We did talk about the shift being too long. But I believe in the longest one that I was the most irrated by a goal was scored under the cross bar on the best goalie we have played so far. It was hard for me to chew to hard. I really like guys that want to be on the ice making plays and are not afraid to stick their neck out and try to do something. I think we are making a whole bunch of players that think getting to the bench is the safest place to be.... I like competitors that want to make plays period.

If they give up chances and a goal I am all over em.... I would rather have guys that are getting results feeling that if I only stay a little longer we are going to get this done.

Rather than I am glad this shift is over and nothing bad happened!

I also let that group know that 2 or 3 goals for them on a weekend is an underacheivement.

Do you believe that this is the same philosophy that their respective HS coach subscribes too during the regular season? Many players pattern themselves after what they are taught over several seasons with a primary coach. To try and change that mindset might be a bit counterproductive to all parties involved.
Is this the same philosophy that the Junior A coaches have, since we are trying to prevent players from "leaving early"? If not, then has the league philosophy drifted away from its mission?

[Sioux Fan]

We on this team in particular have 5 good lines. The truth is that each of them have the ability to score as much as the others. The reality is that certain guys are going to be the guys that need to shoot need to score need to get results. They are the ones that will get it done.

The guys that can but don't give the others rest but don't decide the game they don't take control they hopefully maintain the status quo and don't give up anything. They do matter. They do let the others rest but I would rather have the case be just roll the lines even and not know where the goals are going to come from that is how we play when the kids punch in and get the job done and are not behind.

We are not used to being behind in our own rink and probably just started the line that has had the most luck. Actually in that game the line of Pavek, Simon and Schammel got the most done scoring 3 of the 4 goals with the only goal the Voigt Peterson Funk line was on the first shift. Geez they went a whole game without a goal. They won't play this weekend so it will have to come from someone else and it will. Pavek Schammel and Simon will be intact. They will get a lot of ice time while the Lourdes boys enjoy homecoming.

I think we have guys on every line that could score every shift if they were hungry enough. It is my job to encourage them to go to the net and shoot the puck.

I hope they all do.

[suntzu]

Oldguy, you and Sioux Fan are talking about different things. Sioux Fan coaches in the Elite II league. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that when you start talking about league philosophy it's not the same thing.

[Sioux Fan]

Here is my philosophy.

Players play the game hard and have fun and get results. Get Better.

Section 1 should win all the games because we have better players that have been overlooked by the Elite program consistantly.
If we lose games in Elite II we don't demonstrate that very well.

This past weekend was a poor showing regarding our mission.
We will be better. I will get the message across the guys will take it to heart and make sure we show the rest of the league that we are truly good solid players in our area.

The Section 5 and Section 6 teams were very good opponents and deserve credit but we didn't as a team play hungry enough or with a need to show people that we are in fact good players that deserve notice and a chance to play some more in the years to come.

That is why I participate. To try to help guys feel they can and to help them get confident in themselves as players.

Our guys have to show up at practice and earn our spots. This weekend at Blaine is huge for our guys that have only played a couple of games so far to show me that they should have played more.

[elliott70]

Bottom Line

If the coach says get off the ice - no matter how it is signaled or directed prior to the game or period...
players get off the ice.

If players are not given the direction than they need to make smart decisions...
two minutes is too, too long, unless this is a squirt game.
Good things rarely happen if a player is the ice that long, bad things do.

Monday night in Grand Forks Rolston played an entire power play at D.
But this was not an energy using situation. All others played 30 seconds to a minute.

In elite 2 (and 1), if you are dominating play, puck in the zone and it has been a minute (or more), the next thing that will happen is a dump to the neutral zone and a fresh guy off the bench will beat teh 2 minute shifter.

Change often, change quickly
30 seconds, 45, a minute ????
The important thing is to learn to change and at the appropriate time.

I would rather have a guy that skates 100% for 45 seconds, looks for the appropriate change, gets off fast, and rests for his next shift by listening to what the coach has to say (to him, to the team in general, or to someone else).

Players learn to recognize what their own body is doing and act accordingly. Coaches need to help them.

[GR3343]

Here is my philosophy.

Players play the game hard and have fun and get results. Get Better.

Section 1 should win all the games because we have better players that have been overlooked by the Elite program consistantly.
If we lose games in Elite II we don't demonstrate that very well.

This past weekend was a poor showing regarding our mission.
We will be better. I will get the message across the guys will take it to heart and make sure we show the rest of the league that we are truly good solid players in our area.

The Section 5 and Section 6 teams were very good opponents and deserve credit but we didn't as a team play hungry enough or with a need to show people that we are in fact good players that deserve notice and a chance to play some more in the years to come.

That is why I participate. To try to help guys feel they can and to help them get confident in themselves as players.

Our guys have to show up at practice and earn our spots. This weekend at Blaine is huge for our guys that have only played a couple of games so far to show me that they should have played more.

Are you using Elite II as a showcase? That's what it sounds like. Saying again, Elite II is not a promotional league. It is mainly a developmental league for underclassmen and a few others trying to develop for their upcoming high school seasons. It isn't a "scouted" league. Saying some of your players have only played a couple of games and need to prove they should play more is probably taking it a bit far. All your players should play regardless of skill or situation. As I've seen it so far, most of the players in the league are talented. As in any league, some more than others. The key word here is development. Lines 1 through 4 and 3 sets of D are rotated regularly on some of the teams I've watched. Younger or more inexperienced players are getting opportunities on all special teams as well as regular shifts which is an in valuable teaching tool. If you're out to "win it all" or prove something, perhaps you've missed the mission statement of what Elite II is all about.

[Sioux Fan]

I am confused all my players have played at least half the games.

It is dependant on them playing well that is the mission. Not playing because you show up. It means showing up to play.

[Sioux Fan]

I have an eternal chip on my shoulder and want my guys to fight for and go on and play some real meaningful hockey. To do that coming from our area you need to be ready. That starts now and will continue forever once you figure it out. I do know they keep score because it measures where you are with your game. So if you are going to move on and move forward you have to play well in the league you are in.

Is the philosiphy if some experts deem that you are not "Elite" you should not excel. I think that a lot of our guys maybe 5 or 6 would be doing a great job in the Elite league if they were given a shot and maybe 10 or 11 more if the figure things out will be able to keep playing after High school.

I think that is what our guys want but I will ask them. I probably won't ask the administrators that have not allowed our guys to get the shot to play in the PROMOTED LEAGUE>

By the way several guys that are still playing college were seniors on our team the past four seasons. I am sure it is a pretty high percentage compared to any other program. I am not going to change and again I told those guys that it was way too long of a shift Sunday and that they were lucky Funk scored.

I am not going to sit players unless they are getting out played or are not giving their best effort. That is the story from my perspective. I like guys that bring the game to the other team. We don't generally try to fool em. We think our kids have had fun and we have had a lot of luck so far. We have never went into a game and said this is for development.
We have always hoped that our team was prepared and ready.

Not wondering, We want them just getting after it from the start to the finish.

Thanks for all the pointers I will take them and try to improve what we do here.

How do you coach that Developmental league. Do you need a stopwatch and a log book? I am not that interested.

[GR3343]

I am confused all my players have played at least half the games.

It is dependant on them playing well that is the mission. Not playing because you show up. It means showing up to play.

What's confusing? You're the one who made the statement that your players needed to prove they deserved more playing time. This isn't the local high school teams. The players went through tryouts, were selected based on their skill(I'm assuming) and all paid the same price. I would doubt they're showing up just to hang out. I'm sure they all want to play. Maybe things were run differently than the section my son plays for. The players that were selected to the active roster were told they will be the one's playing. Alternates were selected in case of prior commitments or injury. They were all told they would be there to develop as players. Winning is great if it's a by product of hard work, determination and learning progression. It's not about proving the best players come out of their section. Of course the boys play to win, that's all a part of it, but the coaching staff, in my opinion is out to help all players involved to develop themselves as better hockey players, not distinguish themselves as the toughest section. Sounds like you're out to prove that point while sacrificing what it's supposed to be about.

[Sioux Fan]

god forbid you ask them to give a little bit more than they are used to.

I know that if you ask for it you might get it. We pretty much roll the lines and if a couple of guys are not playing very well they may miss a shift or two. Otherwise we roll the lines and everyone has been on the PP and PK. I expect everyone to play with passion and hunger and anxious that if they don't someone else will be in their slot. That is the way sports works. The sooner they get a grasp on that the better chance they have to stick around in the game.

Again if I was a scout I would sure check out our seniors and see if they could help my junior A team.

[Sioux Fan]

I can only speak to the reason I do this and the reason is I enjoy seeing our players continue to play. I do my best to show em what it takes and hope they get after it. I am probably nuts to spend this much time at it.

See you all at the rink.

Sorry for all the ramblings.... I am not used to being 0-1-1 at kasson and it is eating me up....

[elliott70]

god forbid you ask them to give a little bit more than they are used to.

I know that if you ask for it you might get it. We pretty much roll the lines and if a couple of guys are not playing very well they may miss a shift or two. Otherwise we roll the lines and everyone has been on the PP and PK. I expect everyone to play with passion and hunger and anxious that if they don't someone else will be in their slot. That is the way sports works. The sooner they get a grasp on that the better chance they have to stick around in the game.

Again if I was a scout I would sure check out our seniors and see if they could help my junior A team.

Souix Fan does a very good job as a coach and promoter of southern MN hockey players.

Like most coaches (bosses, admins etal) not everyone agrees with what you do and what you say.

But John can be proud of what he has done and is doing.

[davey]

god forbid you ask them to give a little bit more than they are used to.

I know that if you ask for it you might get it. We pretty much roll the lines and if a couple of guys are not playing very well they may miss a shift or two. Otherwise we roll the lines and everyone has been on the PP and PK. I expect everyone to play with passion and hunger and anxious that if they don't someone else will be in their slot. That is the way sports works. The sooner they get a grasp on that the better chance they have to stick around in the game.

Again if I was a scout I would sure check out our seniors and see if they could help my junior A team.

Souix Fan does a very good job as a coach and promoter of southern MN hockey players.

Like most coaches (bosses, admins etal) not everyone agrees with what you do and what you say.

But John can be proud of what he has done and is doing.

There is no better promoter of S. Minnesota hockey than Sioux Fan. Each and every kid who plays for him will be a better player. All he asks of each of his players is to go out and give an honest effort each and every shift. If you can't do that, you might not want to play for him. My guess is his son was an underdog as a player but his work ethic attracted D1 attention and he carved out a pretty nice career at North Dakota.

[pioneers]

Northeast 5 North 4

[Poolside]

"Are you using Elite II as a showcase? That's what it sounds like. Saying again, Elite II is not a promotional league. It is mainly a developmental league for underclassmen and a few others trying to develop for their upcoming high school seasons. It isn't a "scouted" league. Saying some of your players have only played a couple of games and need to prove they should play more is probably taking it a bit far. All your players should play regardless of skill or situation. As I've seen it so far, most of the players in the league are talented. As in any league, some more than others. The key word here is development. Lines 1 through 4 and 3 sets of D are rotated regularly on some of the teams I've watched. Younger or more inexperienced players are getting opportunities on all special teams as well as regular shifts which is an in valuable teaching tool. If you're out to "win it all" or prove something, perhaps you've missed the mission statement of what Elite II is all about."

Not sure what you mean.................I counted 5 USHL scouts at Blaine 2 weeks ago. They're not dumb. They know where to look for players and where to look for egos. Elite I is the same names over and over. Elite 2 offers some names of overlooked kids --late bloomers or kids from programs that don't usually get scouted. It must be worth their while to spend an entire weekend there. As far as underclassmen go...most of the rosters are filled with juniors and a smattering of seniors. Last I knew, juniors were considered "upperclassmen."