USHL VS High School

Blue&Gold · Post by **Blue&Gold** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:01 pm

Some of you talk like there are absolutes in this discussion. For every example that is given for a kid who stays, there is one for a kid who goes. (USHL, or NHL) The folks who make the senior year of high school sound like the best year of someone's life.. well for some it is. For others, it's just another year. To go or to stay is a decision that does not have a right or wrong answer for MOST kids. They have to weigh the options and decide what to do.

One other point to make, not every kid who goes to the USHL early has a D1 scholarship tied up.

RLStars · Post by **RLStars** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:18 pm

Blue&Gold wrote:Some of you talk like there are absolutes in this discussion. For every example that is given for a kid who stays, there is one for a kid who goes. (USHL, or NHL) The folks who make the senior year of high school sound like the best year of someone's life.. well for some it is. For others, it's just another year. To go or to stay is a decision that does not have a right or wrong answer for MOST kids. They have to weigh the options and decide what to do.

One other point to make, not every kid who goes to the USHL early has a D1 scholarship tied up.

And for those that say the kid will miss things in their senior year that they can never get back, they also get to do things that not many will get the opportunity to do. If my son had the option to play in the USHL as a senior, and WE felt like he would contribute to the team and develop, I'd give him the opportunity to branch out and see where it takes him.

gomnhky · Post by **gomnhky** » Wed Sep 05, 2007 2:47 pm

I thought I would post a preliminary list of the potential departures for this coming season. This is not intended to rub salt in the wound or liven the discussion about good/bad choice or coaches/programs robbing these players of their youth. As HS hockey fans, I am sure we can agree that this list is much longer than we would prefer, but it's also important for people to realize that players departing for other programs is now a very viable option and not necessarily a bad one, if a player and his family feels it is best. I think we should be proud that HS hockey and the Elite League are developing players to the point they are able to play at the next level. Best of luck to all these players!

Ambroz, Seth Fr/F NewPrague Tier 1 Mdgt/Russell Stover
Arnt, Ben* Sr/F NSP USHL/Omaha
Carson, Nick Sr/D Blaine USHL/Waterloo
Crandall, Aaron Sr/G STA USHL/Green Bay
Festler, Jared Sr/F Little Falls USHL/Lincoln
Fink, Mike Jr/F Hopkins USHL/Waterloo
Flaherty, Keegan Sr/F Dul East USHL/Green Bay
Hansen, Jake Sr/F WBL USHL/Sioux Falls
Helgeson, Seth Jr/D Faribault USHL/Sioux City
Hjelle, Brady Sr/G Int’l Falls USHL/Cedar Rapids
Howe, Joe Jr/G Wayzata USHL/Waterloo
Johnson, Taylor Sr/D WBL USHL/Green Bay
Kleidon, Tommy* Sr/D WBL/NAHL USHL/Tri-City
Knutson, Ryan Sr/F Roch Cent Tier 1 Mdgt/Russell Stover
Larson, Nick Sr/F STA USHL/Waterloo
LeBlanc, Drew Sr/F Hrmntwn USHL/Chicago
Mattson, Nick So/D Chaska USNTDP-U17
Patterson, Kent* Sr/G Blake USHL/Cedar Rapids
Pryor, Nick* Jr/D HM USNTDP-U18
Sacchetti, Nico Sr/F Virginia USHL/Omaha
Schroeder, Jordan* Jr/F STA USNTDP-U18
Schwartz, Colton Sr/G Blaine Tier 1 Mdgt/Russell Stover
Stampohar, John Sr/F Hibbing WHL/Medicine Hat
Walters, Ryan*** So/F STA USHL/Des Moines
Youso, Jake** Sr/F Int’l Falls USHL/Green Bay

(Bold - indicates Division 1 Commitment)
* Left prior to 2006-07 season
** Before/After only (will play the HS season)
*** Currently listed on USHL 25-man roster but haven’t seen/heard anything about him leaving HS

warrior2132 · Post by **warrior2132** » Thu Sep 06, 2007 7:11 am

Where did you get this list?

Wisco · Post by **Wisco** » Mon Sep 10, 2007 3:41 pm

packerboy wrote:I think they leave because they have no interest in the college part of college hockey. In the NHL or the IHL or wherever they end up, they dont have to go to class.
Why pretend to be a student athlete?

That is just stupid. They need an education to back them up, career ending injuries happen all the time, plus low end nhl players dont get a sufficient amount of money to live their full life if they retire from the pros around their mid 30s.

Blue&Gold · Post by **Blue&Gold** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:23 am

Wisco wrote:
packerboy wrote:I think they leave because they have no interest in the college part of college hockey. In the NHL or the IHL or wherever they end up, they dont have to go to class.
Why pretend to be a student athlete?
That is just stupid. They need an education to back them up, career ending injuries happen all the time, plus low end nhl players dont get a sufficient amount of money to live their full life if they retire from the pros around their mid 30s.

Stupid? To us..
Reality? Absolutely!

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:05 am

It might not be so stupid.

It has turned out well for a number of people. If you do get hurt or cut, The University of Minnesota isnt going anywhere.

I think what might be stupid or at least should be rethunk is taking these kids in the first place.

Why take a player that potentially will be here one year and then gone to the NHL? What does that have to do with college hockey?

Why offer them a scholarship, feature them in the brochres and then watch them leave after one season or even 2 ?

We will never get back to it being kids going to college and also playing a sport but these kids have no interest in college so why not stay away from them. Its a joke.

nickel slots · Post by **nickel slots** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:22 am

We will never get back to it being kids going to college and also playing a sport but these kids have no interest in college so why not stay away from them. Its a joke.

Here's a few reasons off the top of my head:

1. Making the team better is a college coaches' number one concern... whether it's for one year or 4. I don't care how long a player is going to play, if they are a slam dunk to make the team better I would rather give them the scholarship than somebody that might not.

2. Putting butts in seats. How many people went to Gophers games specifically to see Vanek, Kessel, Okposo or Johnson? I would say quite a few. How many went to see a lower profile recruit like Brian Schack?

3. National media attention. There is no such thing as "bad press." Any time they're talking about your time it's good for business.

4. Better athletes. I guarantee that if there is a Tomas Vanek, Phil Kessel or Erik Johnson on the roster, it's not too difficult to get other top end athletes to commit... like a Kyle Okposo or Jay Bariball or Jimmy O'Brien.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:54 am

Alow me to retort:

1. Does it make the team better? More talented for sure. But if your program is a constant revolving door of talent coming and going every year, I dont know how many championships you can win.

2. I am not a marketing guy but does the revolving door referred to in #1 good for interest in the team and connection to the team that puts butts in the seats?

3. Goes with 2 and 1.

4. Talent yes but championship teams? Not yet.

It seems to me that there was way too much talk about who was going to stay and who was going to leave and blah, blah , blah instead of worrying about beating Boston College.

nickel slots · Post by **nickel slots** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:05 pm

All the talk about who's staying and who's going is in the media more than the locker room. Players at this level understand that an Erik Johnson or Alex Gologosky might be gone next year if the lure of the NHL is there... and they know that if they were good enough to be in that situation, they would be, too.

This is nothing new to the Gophers or any other top D-I program. They are geared to deal with it. We've all heard the term... they don't rebuild, they reload. In 2002 they won the Nat'l Championship amidst Paul Martin rumors. In 2003, they won the title despite rumors abound about Martin and Vanek... but these teams had enough talent and focus to succeed.

Part of the lore of Golden Gopher hockey is that they are continually able to get the best players and people want to see them play and succeed.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:28 pm

You mention the Championship teams.

They were anchored by players who had been there for 3-4 years(including Martin). Vanek was there 2.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 1:58 pm

Lopresti wrote:I'd like to see more college coaches (Lucia) have their recruits play their senior year of high school

This is always one of the most misunderstood things in regard to college coaches. I can't speak for all of them but I know the one you mentioned does not tell a kid to leave HS before he graduates. The decision to stay in HS or go to the USHL is left up to the player and his parents. I have had more than one parent of a Gopher player tell me that their kid was never told what to do in regard to leaving his school (and this comes from parents who had a kid leave HS hockey before graduating as well as parents that had a kid that stayed in HS hockey until they graduated).

Every player is different, but did Blake Wheeler improve his game more by playing USHL than he would have had he played and dominated his senior year in HS (and probably win another championship)? Not to mention enjoying one of the best years of your life, senior year of high school.

It was a difficult decision for Blake but I think he'd tell you that he doesn't regret it. Like everything in life, there are trade offs and he apparently felt it was worth it. Some others may not.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:20 pm

Blog wrote:

I can't speak for all of them but I know the one you mentioned (Lucia) does not tell a kid to leave HS before he graduates

Well yah, unless, of course, he is in an orphange.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:28 pm

packerboy wrote:Blog wrote:

I can't speak for all of them but I know the one you mentioned (Lucia) does not tell a kid to leave HS before he graduates

Well yah, unless, of course, he is in an orphange.

Get over it.

stickboy1956 · Post by **stickboy1956** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:31 am

Gopher Blog wrote:
packerboy wrote:Blog wrote:

I can't speak for all of them but I know the one you mentioned (Lucia) does not tell a kid to leave HS before he graduates

Well yah, unless, of course, he is in an orphange.
Get over it.

Or if the player lives with coach Lucia.

juniorhockey · Post by **juniorhockey** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:39 am

Question:

How many HS players in the state of MN have actually watched a USHL game since the Vulcans and Mustangs have left?

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:46 am

stickboy1956 wrote:Or if the player lives with coach Lucia.

You couldn't be more wrong.

In a Hockey's Future interview from 2005:

HF: As far as Tony’s hockey career and development goes, do you just try to guide and advise him or do you have a hand in the decision-making process?

Don Lucia: I’m trying to guide him a little bit. But he made the decision to go to Omaha (USHL) this year. I gave him some advice on what I thought but I left it up to him. The same thing with what he ends up doing with college. I’ll give him some advice and some of my thoughts but ultimately I want him to do what he wants to do because he’s got to be excited about where he spends the next four years of his life.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:48 am

Good one stickboy.

Ill "get over it" Blog when your hero learns to quit bashing the people who contribute their time and resources to the sport and who have made it what it is today.

PS If Lucia said the the sun was green in an interview, Blog would believe him.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:50 am

packerboy wrote:Good one stickboy.

Much like most of your comments, you sided with the wrong person on this one too.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:52 am

packerboy wrote:PS If Lucia said the the sun was green in an interview, Blog would believe him.

God knows he has all the reason in the world to lie in this case.

I almost feel sorry for you given your rather meaningless grudge over a joke made in a speech. You seem like a bitter guy that walks around in life acting like somebody peed in your cereal. Life is meant to be enjoyed fella. Not walking around holding petty grudges over very meaningless things.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:55 am

Yah, well its better tha being a little bobo for Lucia.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:58 am

packerboy wrote:Yah, well its better tha being a little bobo for Lucia.

Boy, you sure put me in my place on that one.

$\:D/$

Believe me, he isn't beyond criticism. The only difference is I don't have to hold onto that criticism with white knuckles and act all upset about it months after the fact.

packerboy · Post by **packerboy** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:21 am

Blog, if you need to worship the guy, go ahead.

My issues with him go way beyond just his comments in the speech.

He has bashed youth hockey volunteers for years in Lets Play Hockey and elswhere.

He should learn not to do that. His comments are inappropriate, inaccurate in that they are way too general, and just plain dumb.

You would think he would be smart enough not to "bite the hand that feeds him".

stickboy1956 · Post by **stickboy1956** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:41 pm

Gopher Blog wrote:
stickboy1956 wrote:Or if the player lives with coach Lucia.
You couldn't be more wrong.

In a Hockey's Future interview from 2005:

HF: As far as Tony’s hockey career and development goes, do you just try to guide and advise him or do you have a hand in the decision-making process?

Don Lucia: I’m trying to guide him a little bit. But he made the decision to go to Omaha (USHL) this year. I gave him some advice on what I thought but I left it up to him. The same thing with what he ends up doing with college. I’ll give him some advice and some of my thoughts but ultimately I want him to do what he wants to do because he’s got to be excited about where he spends the next four years of his life.

Riiiiiiiiiight, Riiiiiiiiight!!!

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:05 pm

stickboy1956 wrote:Riiiiiiiiiight, Riiiiiiiiight!!!

And you have what proof to the contrary? Because you are a Sioux fan and it is your opinion? Yeah, we can surely rely on the validity of that.

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USHL VS High School

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