St. Thomas this year and beyond

[Rocket78]

The students from the Cordon Bleu cooking school also come in looking pretty scruffy but those people are the customers that paid for their merchandise and acted respectful.

But do they have a hockey team?

That was Hilarious! Thanks for the great laugh One of my friends had a son attend Cordon Bleu about 4-5 years ago. The kid used to play hoops but by the time he finished the school he weighed close to 3 Bills.

[deacon]

This is an argument that can never be won. Whenever STA is brought up about the hockey program this stupid debate always ensues. I graduated from STA and will always stand by the institution that gave me so much, but that is not the reason for me to post in this forum.

For the argument of people enrolling in 9th grade: There are lots of reasons for people to enroll in 9th grade instead of 7th. First of all, the enrollment doubles at STA from 8th to 9th grade because that is when high school actually starts there. The middle school is not part of the military program, which starts in 9th grade. This why many people choose to start fresh in teh 9th grade.

For the guy that worked at the SA down the road: I'm sorry that a few bad apples had to ruin your perception of STA. I can assure you that this is not the case for the entire institution. I can also assure you that the administrators are aware of what happens and they take action. Sometimes these kids end up getting kicked out.

The education argument: STA is and has always been an institution of higher learning. The argument can be made that there are better schools academically, however, STA institutes something that goes beyond the books that can not be explained unless you actually attended the school. That is basically all I can say about that. I graduated in class of 124, we all graduated and we all attended 4 years schools post high school. Not too many schools can say the same thing, whether they are private or public.

I am from Lakeville, and I went there for the education although I played sports. Many people from many different areas in the metro have done the same thing. I understand the argument of going there for hockey or football, but that is never just the sole reason, trust me. I know some of the recent families from Lakeville that have made the switch, and I can assure you that they did not make the switch just for hockey.
j
This argument/debate is never ending and will never be settled. I'm proud I that I graduated from there and laugh at outsiders because they really have no clue about STA.

[keepyourheadup]

I also know some of the families and am pretty certain they are there for hockey, I believe its an excellent school but I never heard a thing about STA from these people until this summer, I guess the focus on education just came out at the same time. How coincidental

[relax please]

send your son to STA or quit complaining. you seem to be spending way to much time worrying about STA and the hockey program there. Maybe by having those lakeville kids leave created an opening for your son at the bantam A level.

[gerryodrowski]

Deacon, You make some valid points in defense of STA although I don't know that the institution itself was under attack. Unfortunately, you were unable to edit the smugness out of your post. Anyway, thanks for attempting to explain the incomprehensible subtleties of your alma mater to us "outsiders".

[keepyourheadup]

he was going to make it either way, but I'll pass on the 50,000 dollar diploma since high school is the end of the hockey road for him just like most other players at STA or anywhere else.

[packerboy]

For those of you who think that kids are at STA for hockey, explain why?

If your focus was on having a great hockey experience , you'd go to a AA school in a good conference, wouldnt you?

I don't get it, If hockey is the focus why go to a school that plays in the Classic Suburban and the A tournament?

It seems inconsistent to me.

[Rocket78]

"For those of you who think that kids are at STA for hockey, explain why?

If your focus was on having a great hockey experience , you'd go to a AA school in a good conference, wouldnt you?

I don't get it, If hockey is the focus why go to a school that plays in the Classic Suburban and the A tournament?

It seems inconsistent to me."

At one time the teams in AA were pretty much all better than A schools. I don't believe that we can make that generalization on that today. The 64 largest (not necessarily best) schools are placed in AA and small schools can petition to play up. The rest of the smaller enrollments play A. I'll go out on a limb and say that most of the private metro schools can succesfully play the AA schools. If your team is outstanding I don't think it will make the kids feel less accomplished if their team ONLY won the class A state tourney. I don't know if Lourdes has the talent to get to the X from Section 1A but they definitely have attracted many of the best players in SE Minnesota (Winona, Stewartville, Chatfield, Mayo, JM,Century). But, I doubt that any of them would be attending if Lourdes had no hockey program or was weak. Lourdes has an overall good academic program but many of their top students use PSEO at the local college since Lourdes is not large enough to have the AP courses that are available at Mayo, Century or JM.

As for me, I'm keeping my kids at the public school they already attend. One of my kids receives significant scholarship $$ for college and like most of the kids that play high school sports it is NOT for playing hockey plus it didn't cost me an addition $40-50k for a diploma.

Living in a free country is awsome, isn't it.

[relax please]

keepyourheadup you are bitter that skilled players left and now your son will not get what you presume is a quality hockey team to play on. That may well be the case but quit complaning. Whoever left had that right. Why should you bad mouth them and STA. If there are not enough jerseys than that effects those kids not yours.

[warrior2132]

just to let you know for those of you not wanting to spend the money like ROCKET pretty much everyone from that school gets a scholarship to a school so you wont really have to pay for college

[Neutron 14]

just to let you know for those of you not wanting to spend the money like ROCKET pretty much everyone from that school gets a scholarship to a school so you wont really have to pay for college

[Rocket78]

just to let you know for those of you not wanting to spend the money like ROCKET pretty much everyone from that school gets a scholarship to a school so you wont really have to pay for college

Are you claiming that almost everyone from STA gets a full ride based on academics?! Very hard to believe and probably impossible to prove or disprove.

Even with the financial assistance my kid gets - college is still expensive. Just glad I didn't spend it four years earlier.

[keepyourheadup]

If you read my posts you'll see I haven't bad mouthed any of them, I just don't get the choice. They have every right to attend what ever school they wish..I just contend that a big part of the choice is hockey. In the end most will play, some will not and it won't make a heck of a lot of difference in my life or theirs. I think 10 more blue chip players should join in the fun and really make it interesting.

[relax please]

best of luck to all the players this season. make great friends,laugh,cry grow together. It will only be a small part of your life but embrace it because the memories will be foreever. parents too, there is nothing like association out of town tournys. have two for me

[dangles07]

76% of the class of 2007 received academic scholarships and 2/3 graduating hockey players pursued post high school hockey and 2/3 of these players received academic scholarships

[keepyourheadup]

exactly..proves my point in a way...although how many senior hockey players graduated last year. Your misrepresenting my thoughts on this..I repeat, there is no question that STA provides a quality experience both in acedemics and hockey, You clearly have the statistics to prove it. I'm not the least bit bitter that anyone chooses to attend what is obviously a quality institution. If it is your belief that most of these students would be there if they were not hockey players is where we don't agree. Some would and its my contention that some would not. I wish them all success and hope it works out great, like I said at the begining of the thread my concern would be for those not fortunate enough to play at the level they had hoped and what happens then. You've amassed an outstanding group of players and I'm certain that STA will continue to be a dominant force in Minnesota high school hockey.

[HShockeywatcher]

It's been a while for me, and I'm sure I've been dearly missed. I wanted to check on the board and this topic was here so I thought I'd read up. So, I have a few comments.

Neutron 14, yes, you and your kid would be treated the same way that I and all the other non-athletes as well as athletes were treated. You'd receive the same need-based financial aid package also. It is no secret that people are on financial aid.

I'm a little confused as to how people are bringing up that people who play hockey would be favored. Of course they would. It's not a bad representation of them and it's not because they play hockey; it's because they participate in an extra-curricular activity. Same is true for when you are looking for a college, a job, or anything of the sort. If you can choose between two similar people but one is active and has interests, you pick that person. Being a member of the Knowledge Bowl team would probably carry a little more weight though.

What deacon says is completely true. It is not something that can be explained to you. I am honored to be a graduate of such a fine institution. I don't need to defend it. There are bad eggs in every school everywhere who either get straightened out or weeded out from St Thomas.

For what the originator of the thread asked. I know that many have turned around and played other sports, played in their free time, gone to reffing, or just decided to focus more on school. I know in recent years at Holy Angels they have had 10+ guys come in a year just from hockey, and many guys from the previous year not make it. So they end up going to play in other leagues.

packerboy is hitting one nail smack dab on the head that I still don't understand. If it was merely hockey you wanted, why would you go to a school that has two good conference games a season? If you're that good and you live in Lakeville, why not open enroll to EP, Edina, Burnsville or something and try for the "real" championship? Or heaven forbid I say this, Cretin is AA. This would be like saying someone would go there for football with a much better school (in football) in Cretin a few miles away.

My last point. I have defended staying in class A many times. I don't think it's a bad thing, nor will that change. It's the class they've been assigned for a reason that the MSHSL had in mind. Why go against that. Arguably the best swimming school in the state and yet they stay in lowly class A. Should they opt up? Probably. Will they? Probably not. Does it matter? Not really.
That being said, I think for the future of the hockey program they should. If you are a star, why would you want to play for a school, with relatively bad competition. If Jordan Schroeder would've stayed, they probably would've been the best team in the state last year. But he has no incentive to. He's the exception to the rule, but for the next one, why stay at a small school? If they move up, they will be playing for the "real" championship every year, they will be able to schedule better non-conference games, and will attract better players. I don't think they should have to or should get the ridicule they do, but for the future of the program it would be an idea to consider.

[Neutron 14]

Neutron 14, yes, you and your kid would be treated the same way that I and all the other non-athletes as well as athletes were treated. You'd receive the same need-based financial aid package also.

Its my understanding that some/most/all of these powerhouse private catholic schools are full. Not true?

Its my understanding that you need to have prior family members as alum, AND be Catholic, AND have parochial grade/middle school, AND have extra curricular interests.

So how do kids with only the last of these (and then only if they're very good) get in?

[thestickler07]

Its my understanding that some/most/all of these powerhouse private catholic schools are full. Not true?

Its my understanding that you need to have prior family members as alum, AND be Catholic, AND have parochial grade/middle school, AND have extra curricular interests.

So how do kids with only the last of these (and then only if they're very good) get in?

You don't have a very good understanding neut...

Its not true. Schools aren't full, class sizes fluctuate each year, so they have no one number they shoot for. Typically, classes range from 100-125. The 2007 class was 136, and 2006 was under 100. So yea, its completely dependent on how many people apply.

Again, you don't have a solid understanding neut, you DON'T have to have past family history, you DON'T have to be Catholic, you DON'T have to goto a parochial middle school to get in, and you DON'T have to participate in an extracurricular activity. That's the beauty of it, you can get an education there by being academically strong. Those things just help. Its the same thing as a college application essentially, would you pick the 4.0 gpa closet case who goes to school at 8:05 in the morning and leaves at 2:40? Or the 3.3 student who does campus ministry, goes to church every weekend, plays basketball and runs track, and has a dad who graduated?

Stop thinking of schools so one dimensionally, schools are supposed to prepare students for what happens in the real world. St. Thomas educates the whole person, not just the brain.

Knock on St. Thomas all you want, honestly. Because its out of your ignorance of the institution that your opinions are formed. Blanket statements like, "would my kid get the same financial aid package if he was a hockey player?" From personal experience, we had multiple, non athletes, get full rides out of need alone. They weren't anything special in the classroom, but they had the desire to learn, or wanted to get out of a bad situation/neighborhood, talked to the admissions department, and they got in. Did the student body resent it? No, on the contrary, we applauded their efforts to better themselves through the school. We didn't think, "oh there goes another free ride" because most of us were getting financial aid as it was.

So please, before you run your mouth again, take some time to learn about St. Thomas, and private schools in general before you make yourself look stupid again.

[keepyourheadup]

Great post stickler, I've been accused of bashing STA in this tread and that has never been my intent. If the families that choose STA are using the criteria you've explained then how could anyone disagree. I believe in the public system my children attend but clearly not everyone does. Unfortunalely this being a hockey forum the discussion focused on the sport and not on the other qualities of your institution.

[thestickler07]

Great post stickler, I've been accused of bashing STA in this tread and that has never been my intent. If the families that choose STA are using the criteria you've explained then how could anyone disagree. I believe in the public system my children attend but clearly not everyone does. Unfortunalely this being a hockey forum the discussion focused on the sport and not on the other qualities of your institution.

As you should, the public school system is phenomenal in Minnesota. Public and Private both have pros and cons, for sure, but they weigh out very evenly in my opinion. The main pro for private schools is the religious aspect of it, and in many cases the tradition the school has.

Public schools on the other hand have the aspect of community with the town. So its not just the students/parents/friends cheering its the whole city, which I gotta say I missed out on.

Whether its public or private, religious or secular, you just got to respect people's choices for education and growth, regardless.

[packerboy]

Stickler's comments about STA may be correct but they dont apply to all Catholic schools.

CDH turns away hundreds every year who did not attend Catholic grade school, have family as alum, etc. etc.
So, Neuts comments are accurate as it relates to Cretin.

I dont know where HM, BSM and AHA are at.

I have heard that STA did have a freshman waiting list this year for the first time in awhile.

As far as financial aid goes, everybody gets some. Even those families that pay "full tuition" are being subsidized by donations, fundraising, etc. In other words, nobody pays what it actually costs. I think thats true at all private schools.

As far as Neut's reference to "powerhouse private Catholic schools", there is only one of those.

[HShockeywatcher]

Thank you packerboy for your respectful post.

To be blunt, CDH is a powerhouse for sports in general, they have the tradition of both Cretin graduates and Derham Hall graduates, they are academically a good school, and, yes, they are a private, Catholic school. With all that, I hear they do have long waiting lists year in and year out. So, with both of those factors you have to some criteria for who you let in and not. I would venture to say that not going to a private grade school isn't the real reason for holding people back, it may just appear that way in some situations, although I may be wrong.

A great point we didn't mention. The actual cost of going to ANY private school is much, much higher than the posted tuition. Through different fund raisers throughout the year, from alumni donations, to sales, sporting event and such, and much more, the school raises the needed money to bring the tuition down to the pointed cost. Not the best analogy, but sort of like how taxes pay for a public school education. This is how it works with colleges all around the country, year in and year out.

It just goes to show a lot about respect. It is very apparent many people that post on here know little about what they talk about.

[Neutron 14]

Stickler's comments about STA may be correct but they dont apply to all Catholic schools.

CDH turns away hundreds every year who did not attend Catholic grade school, have family as alum, etc. etc.
So, Neuts comments are accurate as it relates to Cretin.

I dont know where HM, BSM and AHA are at.

I have heard that STA did have a freshman waiting list this year for the first time in awhile.

As far as financial aid goes, everybody gets some. Even those families that pay "full tuition" are being subsidized by donations, fundraising, etc. In other words, nobody pays what it actually costs. I think thats true at all private schools.

As far as Neut's reference to "powerhouse private Catholic schools", there is only one of those.

Its my understanding that Hill is "full" too.

It WAS my understanding that St. Thomas was one of the most sought after schools. Obviously their not.

[packerboy]

I've heard that HM is turning people away too.(only the ones that cant skate , of course)

The trend is still going that way. But its a relatively recent trend and who knows how long it will last.

It was not so long ago that we were closing Catholic schools left and right and now the ones we have aren't enough.

As far as STA being a sought after school, it is but it is about twice the tuition as a CDH, HM etc and that keeps the demand for it limited.