BoogeyMan wrote:What do people think about the quality of talent in Minnesota high school hockey the past 4-6 years?
If majority of the more talented kids leave their association and/or high school teams. No doubt that the level of play will be effected.
I just read today that the Minnesota State high school hockey tourney had declining attendance last year. Not to mention I hear people talk about the lack of talent in Minnesota the past few years.
I'm not saying. I just saying..... Is this something that we have to be worried about?
Its frustrating to hear people say how good their team would be if they didn't lose a couple of talented players.
Question: The paper had an article on the fab five (now six) Edina players that decided to stay put and play together in high school. Are any of these kids getting additional ice time before or after the season with another team? Deciding to stay home and play 25 games compared to the 80+ games they could receive somewhere else is a huge difference. I admire them staying home. Once again. They're doing what's best for their situation.
1. Based on NHL Draft numbers, it is hard to make a case that Minnesota HS hockey is turning out fewer talented players.
2. Declining attendance off of capacity. AA is sold out and A games draw well, certainly compared to state high school tournaments in any sport in any other state. I think you are reaching to find a problem here.
3. It is too bad that star players from lesser programs leave, whether it be to Juniors or private schools. Overall it doesn't change the complexion of Minnesota hockey much as there are now more strong private school programs than there were in the past. Go back 20 years and Hill-Murray was a powerhouse. St. Thomas had a little spurt with Randy Skarda and Dan Brooks. Cretin went to state in the late 80s. Today you have strong programs at STA, Benilde and Holy Angels and the rest of the private schools (Blake, Breck, Totino-Grace, etc...) are better than they were.
4. There are fewer Minnesotans leaving for the USHL than there were a few years ago. Did the B-SM coach say 10 vs. 40 in his interview? Also, fewer Minnesotans find the NTDP attractive.
5. Anders Lee and Zach Budish were rostered on Elite teams, but they also were All-Metro 2nd Teamers in football. Yes, the Edina kids are getting extra games through the Elite program.
Read some of Boogerman's posts. He always has an agenda. AAA hockey and Minnesota Made...........since he bumped his head in Chaska that's all he can think of.
Maybe he will read the post I made about the 90 Rockets. 90 Rockets with more D1s than the 88s I bet many of them played other sports too
O-townClown wrote:[What the heck are the criteria?
They scout the kids, invite them to the tryouts in March, and watch them compete there. That leads to some invites being extended. Any remaining roster spots to be filled are decided on after the Advanced 16s in the summer. Walters badly wanted to play there but it just didn't happen for him. But he'll get plenty of time in the USHL in the next few years.
Believe it or not, the MN kids available this year were not as impressive as players from other areas. There was a reason there was only one MN kid invited and it wasn't because of any anti-MN bias. Especially considering how many MN kids have gone through that program.
I don't have time to research this now. I heard there are several kids from Michigan on the U17 team this year. Maybe there is somewhat of a bias.
2nd, there were 7 Minnesota players on the US Under 17 team that played in the 5 Nations Tournament. If they played a series of best of 5 games of hockey vs. NTDP U17 team it would be a horse a piece as to who would win the series. Frankly, there cannot be that much difference of talent from those that made it to those that weren't selected.
Much of what scouts do is subjective.
Was young Borque the one of the best players in the U.S? Could there have been a kid somewhere in the U.S. that had equal or greater talent that could have been rostered at NTDP? Or, did his last name have SOME influence?
Hey,
Once again. I'm not trying to stir the pot. I simply started a new post. I'm not implying anything towards any association. If you don't care what I write. Please choose not to read it.
Its very evident that there's a close group of hockey buddies lead by tomASS.
Can we please agree to disagree? There's no sense on attacking each other and wasting everyones time reading senseless material.
In fact, I invite you to quit hiding behind your borrowed name and lets talk at the rink.
The state of Minnesota High School hockey is difficult to gauge, the top programs are doing very well, they have plenty of kids going out for the teams, High quality coaching, and potential superstar players.
The bottom tier is close to nonexistant. their programs have been folded into other teams needing players and haven't really been able to put together a strong team.
The muddled middle is where future growth is going to come from, If the coaching is good, develops a team concept that can put together some solid teams then when a superstar comes along maybe he will stay with the program it boost it to the top level. If the coaching is constantly being turned over or lacking in the skills to develop a team then they will go the other direction.
The Top is in good shape and will be for some time, the bottom is what it is, it's the middle group that needs to make a difference in order for the competition and the sport to stay healthy over the long haul
I think the biggest threat to high school hockey is the cost of participation. I've got 3 boys and the $$$$$ are a little scary and I and my wife make a decent living. Cost will continue to rise.
Mite-dad wrote:I think the biggest threat to high school hockey is the cost of participation. I've got 3 boys and the $$$$$ are a little scary and I and my wife make a decent living. Cost will continue to rise.
Wait till you start paying college tuition...this will seem like chump change
I think the Minnesota State High School Leauge is terrible. If the best we had to offer (no offence to Patrick White) last year was ranked 26th in North America, I think we need to re-evaluate things. High School Hockey in the State of Minnesota could be so much better.
Since we are talking about pots, breakout, it's alittle of calling the kettle black when you say someone else is stirring the pot. you do it, so do many others on this site. If you have better things to do with your time, stop responding to his posts-apparently you can't help it. otherwise this will be yet another site that gets locked down. "Can't we all just get along!"
puckman22 wrote:I think the Minnesota State High School Leauge is terrible. If the best we had to offer (no offence to Patrick White) last year was ranked 26th in North America, I think we need to re-evaluate things. High School Hockey in the State of Minnesota could be so much better.
The goal of the MSHSL isn't to produce NHL players or NHL ready talent; I know people are getting more and more focused on player rankings and scouts that are in attendance, but I guarantee you most kids who have a good head on their shoulder are more worried about winning and trying to get to the state tournament. Sure, they want to get better and move on to the next level but most high school players aren't going to play competitively after high school. I think McDonagh was drafted/rated higher than White, but they both were drafted ahead of a lot of college and major junior players; that's quite an accomplishment.
puckman22 wrote:I think the Minnesota State High School Leauge is terrible. If the best we had to offer (no offence to Patrick White) last year was ranked 26th in North America, I think we need to re-evaluate things. High School Hockey in the State of Minnesota could be so much better.
The goal of the MSHSL isn't to produce NHL players or NHL ready talent; I know people are getting more and more focused on player rankings and scouts that are in attendance, but I guarantee you most kids who have a good head on their shoulder are more worried about winning and trying to get to the state tournament. Sure, they want to get better and move on to the next level but most high school players aren't going to play competitively after high school. I think McDonagh was drafted/rated higher than White, but they both were drafted ahead of a lot of college and major junior players; that's quite an accomplishment.
All I was trying to say was that the MSHL is not as good as most people make it out to be
puckman22 wrote:I think the Minnesota State High School Leauge is terrible. If the best we had to offer (no offence to Patrick White) last year was ranked 26th in North America, I think we need to re-evaluate things. High School Hockey in the State of Minnesota could be so much better.
Last year's draft actually saw a number of Minnesota-bred players taken in the early rounds.
First Round -
3 European
9 American
18 Canadian
by my count. Of the 9 American players, three are Minnesotan. That is one-third of the American players. Not bad at all.
12. McDonagh - Cretin
25. White - Grand Rapids
29. O'Brien - U of MN
puckman22 wrote:I think the Minnesota State High School Leauge is terrible. If the best we had to offer (no offence to Patrick White) last year was ranked 26th in North America, I think we need to re-evaluate things. High School Hockey in the State of Minnesota could be so much better.
Last year's draft actually saw a number of Minnesota-bred players taken in the early rounds.
First Round -
3 European
9 American
18 Canadian
by my count. Of the 9 American players, three are Minnesotan. That is one-third of the American players. Not bad at all.
12. McDonagh - Cretin
25. White - Grand Rapids
29. O'Brien - U of MN
puckman22 wrote:
All I was trying to say was that the MSHL is not as good as most people make it out to be
MSHL is fine. Do you supposed someone could say it "isn't as good" as something else because the talent is so spread out? My gosh, there are over 100 teams. In Detroit the best would have collected on six or eight teams, ditto Ontario juniors.
Kansas City has ONE team of note, Russell Stover. California has something like three. Dallas/Fort Worth (5 million people) has two.
You could do away with traditional HS hockey to have players at the top compete at a supposedly higher level, but that would be at the expense of literally thousands of players.
When Minnesota no longer feeds 20% of the Americans playing Division 1 college hockey we can talk about how it isn't as good as something else. Nobody has a better model that I've seen. Move away from home when you are 15 or 16 to play? Yeah, Canada's got it nailed.
puckman22 wrote:
All I was trying to say was that the MSHL is not as good as most people make it out to be
MSHL is fine. Do you supposed someone could say it "isn't as good" as something else because the talent is so spread out? My gosh, there are over 100 teams. In Detroit the best would have collected on six or eight teams, ditto Ontario juniors.
Kansas City has ONE team of note, Russell Stover. California has something like three. Dallas/Fort Worth (5 million people) has two.
You could do away with traditional HS hockey to have players at the top compete at a supposedly higher level, but that would be at the expense of literally thousands of players.
When Minnesota no longer feeds 20% of the Americans playing Division 1 college hockey we can talk about how it isn't as good as something else. Nobody has a better model that I've seen. Move away from home when you are 15 or 16 to play? Yeah, Canada's got it nailed.[/quote
puckman22 wrote:
All I was trying to say was that the MSHL is not as good as most people make it out to be
MSHL is fine. Do you supposed someone could say it "isn't as good" as something else because the talent is so spread out? My gosh, there are over 100 teams. In Detroit the best would have collected on six or eight teams, ditto Ontario juniors.
Kansas City has ONE team of note, Russell Stover. California has something like three. Dallas/Fort Worth (5 million people) has two.
You could do away with traditional HS hockey to have players at the top compete at a supposedly higher level, but that would be at the expense of literally thousands of players.
When Minnesota no longer feeds 20% of the Americans playing Division 1 college hockey we can talk about how it isn't as good as something else. Nobody has a better model that I've seen. Move away from home when you are 15 or 16 to play? Yeah, Canada's got it nailed.
Um... Canada does have it nailed
Minnesota has it nailed to provide an experience for thousands af kids that is unmatched in both quality and scope. Our goal should not be to shorten the bench.
I bet many of them played other sports too 
