One step closer to Big Ten Hockey Conference

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WayOutWest
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Re: One step closer to Big Ten Hockey Conference

Post by WayOutWest » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:30 pm

Nonsense.
Good for Penn State. It is about time they get a hockey program.
But to imply that such would drive the creation of a Big 10 conference is ludicrous. What about the other Big 10 schools that don't have significant hockey programs.......Illinois, Indiana, Purdue, Northwestern, and now even Nebraska? Ignore them?
The WCHA isn't going anywhere, anytime soon. I doubt many of the others are either. There are hockey rivalries there that are not superceded by a perceived need to coordinate conferences across other sports.

Good luck, Penn State. But this is going to take QUITE awhile.

WildFan05
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Post by WildFan05 » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:11 pm

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I at one time agreed with you about not having a Big Ten Conference for hockey, but now that Penn St. has made the jump Illinois is talking about resurrecting their Division 1 program. It's in the works... believe me.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Sat Sep 25, 2010 7:48 pm

WildFan05 wrote:I wouldn't be so sure about that. I at one time agreed with you about not having a Big Ten Conference for hockey, but now that Penn St. has made the jump Illinois is talking about resurrecting their Division 1 program. It's in the works... believe me.
"In the works" by whom? And one school jumping into the fray and another "talking about resurrrecting a division 1 program" is a long way from being competitive enough to even start to begin discussing breaking up the WCHA in lieu of a "Big Ten Hockey Conference."
And with what Minnesota has in their in-state D1 rivalries with St. Cloud, UMD, and Mankato, and their history with UND, Colorado and Denver, aligning them with a Big Ten hockey conference would be a horrific mistake. The only way they BEGIN to entertain that thought is if the can expect the same high level of play. Michigan and Michigan State can step in nicely, and Wisconsin would obviously be in play, but that's it. I'll grow very old waiting for Iowa to field a competitive hockey program.

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Sun Sep 26, 2010 4:03 am

There will be a Big Ten conference. Why, because of the Big Ten network and the amount of money each school will recieve. The WCHA will still exist minus Minn and Wis.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:19 pm

mulefarm wrote:There will be a Big Ten conference. Why, because of the Big Ten network and the amount of money each school will recieve. The WCHA will still exist minus Minn and Wis.
Nah. Not buying it at all. The existence of a television network means nothing. Wisconsin vs. Purdue would be a complete joke. Minnesota vs. Northwestern............come on. Nebraska, Iowa, Illinois, Iowa, Penn State, Indiana, and Purdue would ALL have to fund and field somewhat competitive teams to even consider such. You are SOOOOO far away from that happening, that it is ludicrous to even begin talking about it.
Wake me when it becomes remotely attractive for a hockey recruit to consider playing for Iowa, instead of St. Cloud, UMD, or North Dakota.......or even Bemidji. THEN we can revisit this. The Big Ten network has NO stake in wanting to televise a Northwestern vs. Iowa hockey game. There is no revenue in that. Women's field hockey would draw more viewership.

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Post by mulefarm » Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:15 pm

Not all schools have to field teams, only 6 and they will have that with Penn State. It comes down to money and the Big Ten Network, from what I understand, is very successful. You will still have some traditional rivalry games, but they will be non-conference. If the Big Ten decides to have a hockey conference, Mn and Wis have no choice of opting out, and will have to leave the WCHA. When the Presidents of these schools see the amount of revenue they will recieve, I don't think they will care about the other teams in the WCHA.

WildFan05
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Post by WildFan05 » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:50 pm

Money talks, BS walks bro. Between 6 teams you won't have enough games to fill an entire regular season, so we'll still play UND and I can guarantee we'll keep most if not all of our Minnesota rivarlies around. Don't be so ignorant. By the way what's attractive about playing for SCSU, UND, or any of the other schools you mentioned?

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:00 am

mulefarm wrote:Not all schools have to field teams, only 6 and they will have that with Penn State. It comes down to money and the Big Ten Network, from what I understand, is very successful. You will still have some traditional rivalry games, but they will be non-conference. If the Big Ten decides to have a hockey conference, Mn and Wis have no choice of opting out, and will have to leave the WCHA. When the Presidents of these schools see the amount of revenue they will recieve, I don't think they will care about the other teams in the WCHA.
The Big Ten doesn't print money. They are successful in promoting other sports because there is competitive balance, and some of the very best college teams in D1. College hockey is a completely different playing field. The Big Ten, is not going to make foolish decisions. Taking Wisconsin and Minnesota out of the WCHA and Michigan, Michigan State and Ohio State out of the CCHA, and backfilling their normal conference rivalries with non-conference opponents would be entirely foolish. (and don't imagine that it is going to be easy or even possible for Wisconsin and Minnesota to schedule St. Cloud, UMD, North Dakota, yearly, if they move out of the WCHA. )
Penn State might be fielding a hockey program soon, and they will be an embarassment for some time. What happens when Purdue wants to field one too? Iowa? Nebraska? In a "Big Ten Conference" they would obviously be slotted right into the mix. I, for one, won't be attending a Minnnesota vs. Iowa hockey game anytime soon, nor wasting my time watching one on the Big Ten Network. The Big Ten realizes this. Bad idea!!

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Post by Gopher Blog » Mon Sep 27, 2010 6:38 pm

mulefarm is definitely correct. There will be a Big Ten conference. All that matters is there will be six teams in the sport and that is what the Big Ten requires (it is also what it takes for a conference to have an auto bid to the NCAAs). The Gophers and Wisconsin would have no choice in the matter as they have to follow what the Big Ten wants... the Big Ten Network is a major cash cow and the more they can expand their broadcasting to sports that consumers care about (especially in this neck of the woods), the better off their bottom line is going to be.

The Gophers will still likely play some of their current WCHA foes. It will also give the Gophers a bit more flexibility with their non-conference scheduling as a Big Ten conference would take up only 20 games out of something like 34 regular season games. Hopefully that means playing some of the eastern powers a little more often.

Love it or hate it... it will happen in the future.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:47 am

Gopher Blog wrote:mulefarm is definitely correct. There will be a Big Ten conference. All that matters is there will be six teams in the sport and that is what the Big Ten requires (it is also what it takes for a conference to have an auto bid to the NCAAs). The Gophers and Wisconsin would have no choice in the matter as they have to follow what the Big Ten wants... the Big Ten Network is a major cash cow and the more they can expand their broadcasting to sports that consumers care about (especially in this neck of the woods), the better off their bottom line is going to be.

The Gophers will still likely play some of their current WCHA foes. It will also give the Gophers a bit more flexibility with their non-conference scheduling as a Big Ten conference would take up only 20 games out of something like 34 regular season games. Hopefully that means playing some of the eastern powers a little more often.

Love it or hate it... it will happen in the future.
Neither of you is "definitely correct." This is pure speculation on all our parts, at this point.
Personally, I am not holding my breath.
I don't see Minnesota and Wisconsin being ripped out of the WCHA anytime in the foreseeable future. College hockey is no more of a "cash cow" for the Big Ten Network than College Lacrosse is.
And I think most WCHA fans would FAR rather continue to watch the series against UND, St. Cloud, UMD, Denver and CC rather than one against Harvard, BC, NH, et al. The WCHA is not failing. You don't mess with something that isn't broken.

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Post by Gopher Blog » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:55 pm

WayOutWest wrote: Neither of you is "definitely correct." This is pure speculation on all our parts, at this point.
Personally, I am not holding my breath.
I don't see Minnesota and Wisconsin being ripped out of the WCHA anytime in the foreseeable future. College hockey is no more of a "cash cow" for the Big Ten Network than College Lacrosse is.
And I think most WCHA fans would FAR rather continue to watch the series against UND, St. Cloud, UMD, Denver and CC rather than one against Harvard, BC, NH, et al. The WCHA is not failing. You don't mess with something that isn't broken.
If you listen to talk behind the scenes with the parties involved, it is pretty clear where it is headed. Lucia, Alvarez, etc... they all believe it is coming. Heck, Alvarez wants it more than anybody. I think the Gophers are on the fence and will simply go with what the Big Ten decides it wants to do.

As far as when (i.e. "foreseeable future"), it isn't going to happen for a little while. Obviously Penn State needs to get situated, etc. so it won't happen overnight.

As far as what WCHA fans want, you are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter what they may or may not want. That isn't what is driving such decisions. Quite honestly, it really shouldn't matter to the Big Ten decision makers what fans of non-member schools "want". That is not their concern when all is said and done. Their concern is their conference programs and what they feel is best for them.

I don't really understand why you think the Big Ten shouldn't "mess with" something that isn't broken. Why should the Big Ten care about the WCHA? The Big Ten Conference doesn't benefit from the WCHA's success on the whole. Only 2 WCHA teams matter to the Big Ten and that is extent of it. Any consideration beyond that simply won't matter to them. "Messing" with the WCHA doesn't hurt the Big Ten (on the whole).

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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:19 pm

Gopher Blog wrote: As far as what WCHA fans want, you are completely missing the point. It doesn't matter what they may or may not want. That isn't what is driving such decisions. Quite honestly, it really shouldn't matter to the Big Ten decision makers what fans of non-member schools "want". That is not their concern when all is said and done. Their concern is their conference programs and what they feel is best for them.

I don't really understand why you think the Big Ten shouldn't "mess with" something that isn't broken. Why should the Big Ten care about the WCHA? The Big Ten Conference doesn't benefit from the WCHA's success on the whole. Only 2 WCHA teams matter to the Big Ten and that is extent of it. Any consideration beyond that simply won't matter to them. "Messing" with the WCHA doesn't hurt the Big Ten (on the whole).
You are missing MY point. Undoubtedly, the Big Ten doesn't care about the WCHA. But, the U of Minnesota and Wisconsin should. What happens to the revenue stream when the Gophers start playing Penn State in hockey, vs. a series against UMD? Good luck with that.
And the "only two WCHA teams that matter to the Big Ten" happen to be HALF of the truly viable programs that a Big Ten hockey conference would have. There is some influence there.

This move is a LONG way off, if it is even viable at all...........ever.
Opting to empty hockey rinks with blowout matchups, vs. filling them with competitive ones is not going to benefit anyone, including the Big Ten.

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Post by Gopher Blog » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:03 pm

I guess you better call the likes of Lucia, Eaves, Alvarez, etc. because they don't seem to agree with you. I get the feeling they understand their programs (inside and out) better than the average Joe.

http://www.dailycardinal.com/with-penn- ... -1.1639744

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:56 pm

Gopher Blog wrote:I guess you better call the likes of Lucia, Eaves, Alvarez, etc. because they don't seem to agree with you. I get the feeling they understand their programs (inside and out) better than the average Joe.

http://www.dailycardinal.com/with-penn- ... -1.1639744
I didn't read a quote from Lucia. Did you have a link?
And "murmers" and "a long way from making a decision" don't amount to more than your post.

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Post by observer » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:24 pm

Big Ten Network announces hockey TV schedule.

http://www.bigtennetwork.com/dpp/about_ ... y-schedule

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Post by Gopher Blog » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:30 pm

WayOutWest wrote:And "murmers" and "a long way from making a decision" don't amount to more than your post.
The difference is that the comments in that article are coming from people with influence in the situation and they are clearly behind it. Which I tend to put a lot more creedence in when compared to a random fan's displeasure with the idea.

The Lucia comments were somewhere in the Tribune. I believe he said something to affect of the Big Ten ADs and the Big Ten office would make the call. He's basically along for the ride. He also stated he would like to maintain playing some WCHA teams (a la UMD).

Even Sandelin said the Big Ten Conference "looks like a good possibility."

I'm not saying you have to like it or want it. I just think you are grossly underestimating the situation's future chances
Last edited by Gopher Blog on Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Goldy Gopher » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:37 pm

WayOutWest, I'm losing respect with every post of yours that I read.

Of course the Big Ten hockey conference is coming.

Accept it since you appear to be the only one who hasn't.
The U invented swagger.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:54 pm

Gopher Blog wrote:
WayOutWest wrote:And "murmers" and "a long way from making a decision" don't amount to more than your post.
The difference is that the comments in that article are coming from people with influence in the situation and they are clearly behind it. Which I tend to put a lot more creedence in when compared to a random fan's displeasure with the idea.

The Lucia comments were somewhere in the Tribune. I believe he said something to affect of the Big Ten ADs and the Big Ten office would make the call. He's basically along for the ride. He also stated he would like to maintain playing some WCHA teams (a la UMD).

Even Sandelin said the Big Ten Conference "looks like a good possibility."

I'm not saying you have to like it or want it. I just think you are grossly underestimating the situation's future chances
Okay guys, I have been ferreting around. The talk that is out there is definitely.........out there. You win.
And nope, I don't like it, and I don't believe Minnesota or Wisconsin fans generally will either. As a Minnesotan, how do you replace a series with UND with one against Michigan State and call it "good?" It will be far inferior. And it will be VERY sad to lose multiple series against in-state rivals St. Cloud, UMD and Mankato as well. (Even Bemidji State.) This will not be a good move for the Minnesota fan base, when and if it occurs. If it does, I hope it takes decades!!!!!!

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Post by Gopher Blog » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:34 pm

As a long time Gopher follower, I could really care less about "missing" out on most of that.

Mankato has never done much for me and it has been an extremely one sided situation (the Gophers have only lost six games to them out of over 40 played). I don't even consider that coming close to a rivalry. With the exception of a few pockets of time, the "rivalry" against UMD hasn't been much of one... the Gophers have a 57 game advantage in the win column there. The same could be said for SCSU. Not that those three programs haven't had any success or haven't had their moments...

Quite frankly, when I think of a true rivalry for Gopher hockey, I really only think of UND and Wisconsin. The rest tend to be more hyped up by the opponent's fan base than it is a fierce rivalry that lives up to UW/UND games.

The Gophers and UW still end up playing those teams (and UND). I'd bet they will still see some of those teams on an annual basis (just in a non-conference setting and only one series a year).

As with anything, it will take time for a situation to grow into something more captivating. I mean, the Gophers true rivals didn't immediately start off that way. It took some time to get to that point.

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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:22 am

Gopher Blog wrote:As a long time Gopher follower, I could really care less about "missing" out on most of that.

Mankato has never done much for me and it has been an extremely one sided situation (the Gophers have only lost six games to them out of over 40 played). I don't even consider that coming close to a rivalry. With the exception of a few pockets of time, the "rivalry" against UMD hasn't been much of one... the Gophers have a 57 game advantage in the win column there. The same could be said for SCSU. Not that those three programs haven't had any success or haven't had their moments...

Quite frankly, when I think of a true rivalry for Gopher hockey, I really only think of UND and Wisconsin. The rest tend to be more hyped up by the opponent's fan base than it is a fierce rivalry that lives up to UW/UND games.

The Gophers and UW still end up playing those teams (and UND). I'd bet they will still see some of those teams on an annual basis (just in a non-conference setting and only one series a year).

As with anything, it will take time for a situation to grow into something more captivating. I mean, the Gophers true rivals didn't immediately start off that way. It took some time to get to that point.
If you are scoffing at a lopsided "rivalry", you are going to be stunned by a Minnesota vs. Penn State version, or an eventual Wisconsin vs. Purdue.
The "in-state" stuff is nice because you get a LOT of visitors at Mariucci and a LOT of Gopher fans travelling to Duluth, St. Cloud, and Mankato. I am skeptical about finding more than a handful of Indiana hockey fans at away games.
And like UMD and St. Cloud or not, they DO pop up as nationally ranked opponents fairly regularly, which Illinois, and Northwestern will take decades to achieve.
Travel is a bonus too. It's fun to see those home and home series.
I still don't like it.
I absolutely consider the prospect a downgrade.

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Post by mulefarm » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:12 am

Way out, I don't think every school in the Big Ten will field a team. Mn, Wis, Ohio State, Mich State, Mich and Penn St will be the only teams playing hockey in the conference to start with. I'm sure if a school starts a hockey program it would have to be both mens and womens and this may discourage some schools from adding hcokey. Down the road I could see Iowa and Illinois possibly adding a team. They all probably have a club team at the present time. I agree with you that not playing the traditional teams is hard to take from a fans point of veiw, but big time college athletics has turned into big bussiness. Except for Penn St, the Big Ten conference has 5 quality programs.

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Post by ACTUALFORMERPLAYER » Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:07 am

The Big Ten Network and Big Ten is all about making money. When has hockey ever had anything to do with making money. Isn't it a little presumptious to think that the driving force behind having a Big Ten Hockey Confernce is because of making money? Last time I checked hockey is not making any TV network any money or vice versa.

WayOutWest
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Post by WayOutWest » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:19 pm

ACTUALFORMERPLAYER wrote:The Big Ten Network and Big Ten is all about making money. When has hockey ever had anything to do with making money. Isn't it a little presumptious to think that the driving force behind having a Big Ten Hockey Confernce is because of making money? Last time I checked hockey is not making any TV network any money or vice versa.
THAT is my point as well. The NHL cannot even get a network television contract. Why would there be any confidence that the Big Ten Network is going to turn a buck by televising college hockey?
Locally, FSN dropped their high school hockey broadcasts. Even Gopher games frequently get bumped to a tape delayed status in lieu of a basketball game. The television market for hockey, in general, is very poor.
More than half the schools in the Big Ten don't even field hockey teams, because there is flat out not enough interest in them. So why would anyone think that televising hockey on the Big Ten Network is going to be a draw? I would doubt that Iowa, Illinois, Indiana, Northwestern, Purdue, Nebraska fans would ever tune in to watch. Hockey is flat out not popular in those areas. So, why would they watch it on BTN?
Like I said before, the BTN does not print money. There has to be a revenue stream, here, to make it make sense. I don't see it.

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Post by mulefarm » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:36 pm

Why would the Big Ten have it's own network and not try and get as much exposure for their conference? I believe they have a pretty good idea about the amount of revenue hockey will generate. Hate to see Mn and Wis leave WCHA.

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