2012 Mr. Hockey

[Neuuman]

Kloos is a gopher...not a pre-req, but probably what sways the vote.

I've never understood this "gopher bias" everybody eludes to in the voting. From what I understand, the voting is done by NHL scouts and MN D1 coaches. Why would that group of voters possibly care to what college the players have committed? I realize the last three Mr. Hockey winners have played for the U of M, but what in each of their credentials makes anyone think they only were awarded Mr. Hockey because they went to the U of M? Seems to me each of the past 3 winners have made a pretty strong case in their post-high school careers to make a solid case they weren't Mr. Hockey because they were Gophers. Leddy - NHL defenseman, Bjugstad - 19th overall NHL pick, Rau - VERY solid freshman year at the currently ranked 7th team in country. Who deserved it more than these players? I'd really like to know.

[sachishi4]

just my opinion, but committing to the Gophers shows what the top (once again IMO) college program in the nation thinks. I think it factors into NHL scouts thinking, and probably some of the D1 coaches too.

[DuluthMMA]

Truth is I know all those things about East, in my opinion the best team in the state. Do you realize that many observers feel their best player only played maybe a quarter of the year. I think Jake is a great player but he also plays in an environment where he isn't called upon to be the THE main cog. If Jake was hurt and Trevor stayed healthy do you think their record would be much different? If Kloos was hurt most of the year does South win 20 games?

While you assume that South played the little sisters of the poor, if you check page stat you'll see that it was a top 15 schedule. Granted Justin lit up the sections, he never exceeded 5 points against any one team during the regular season. Counting the MSHEL he has now been on the score sheet in 56 straight games. His accomplishments shouldn't be ridiculed based on racking up easy points against lousy teams, he has been productive no matter the competition. Would he have been better off had he bailed out and transferred to a big name program?

Regardless who wins can't we agree that they are both great players who thrived in different circumstances.

No I agree. And understand kloos is an amazing player. And I'm not going off what I've seen ( because I've never seen him play ) but what others are saying, vs the section he played in and the career stats.

It's like when moose lake played hermantown. And the debate was could josh Cisar score on one of the best defensive teams and a top 10 goalie, and he did. All that means to me is that if lakeville scores kloos will be a part of all of them

[longdistancespectator8]

To compare Kloos and Lakeville South to Cisar and Moose Lake is a bit extreme. I understand the point your making , but it’s as if your saying Kloos didn’t score on any top teams in the state. There are many who would argue that Eagan is as good as any team in the state. Kloos had 6 points in two games against them. Or Burnsville, an above average team, he had 6 on them too. Your point that Randolph played a tougher schedule is valid, but the Cisar/Kloos comparison is weak at best.

[HawkeyPower]

To compare Kloos and Lakeville South to Cisar and Moose Lake is a bit extreme. I understand the point your making , but it’s as if your saying Kloos didn’t score on any top teams in the state. There are many who would argue that Eagan is as good as any team in the state. Kloos had 6 points in two games against them. Or Burnsville, an above average team, he had 6 on them too. Your point that Randolph played a tougher schedule is valid, but the Cisar/Kloos comparison is weak at best.

Especially when Cisars goal was a PP goal against the back up goalie.

[Neuuman]

Truth is I know all those things about East, in my opinion the best team in the state. Do you realize that many observers feel their best player only played maybe a quarter of the year. I think Jake is a great player but he also plays in an environment where he isn't called upon to be the THE main cog. If Jake was hurt and Trevor stayed healthy do you think their record would be much different? If Kloos was hurt most of the year does South win 20 games?

While you assume that South played the little sisters of the poor, if you check page stat you'll see that it was a top 15 schedule. Granted Justin lit up the sections, he never exceeded 5 points against any one team during the regular season. Counting the MSHEL he has now been on the score sheet in 56 straight games. His accomplishments shouldn't be ridiculed based on racking up easy points against lousy teams, he has been productive no matter the competition. Would he have been better off had he bailed out and transferred to a big name program?

Regardless who wins can't we agree that they are both great players who thrived in different circumstances.

No I agree. And understand kloos is an amazing player. And I'm not going off what I've seen ( because I've never seen him play ) but what others are saying, vs the section he played in and the career stats.

It's like when moose lake played hermantown. And the debate was could josh Cisar score on one of the best defensive teams and a top 10 goalie, and he did. All that means to me is that if lakeville scores kloos will be a part of all of them

You might want to do a little research before making some of these statements. Comparing Kloos's to Cisar's stats is utterly ridiculous.

Here are some facts.

Throw out the sectional playoffs. Kloos had 81 regular season points. He played 17 conference games against the same teams that Eagan, Burnsville, Apple Valley, etc. played 17 games against. LS had 8 non-conference regular season games against:

Edina - top 10, in state tourney
White Bear Lake
Stillwater
Breck - ranked 3rd in class A
Roseville
Rochester Century - CUPCAKE (sorry RC fans)
Eden Prairie - top 10 in AA all year long
Hill Murray - top 10 at the end of the year

They played one non-conference game against a section 1AA team, and 2 conference games against a section 1AA team (Lakeville North).

Where are all of the sub-100 teams they supposedly beat up on? Hell, Burnsville and Eagan both played more games against section 1AA teams than Lakeville South did. I'm not sure, but I don't know if Moose Lake and Cisar played anybody ranked HIGHER than Rochester Century.

Just curious.

[DuluthMMA]

Truth is I know all those things about East, in my opinion the best team in the state. Do you realize that many observers feel their best player only played maybe a quarter of the year. I think Jake is a great player but he also plays in an environment where he isn't called upon to be the THE main cog. If Jake was hurt and Trevor stayed healthy do you think their record would be much different? If Kloos was hurt most of the year does South win 20 games?

While you assume that South played the little sisters of the poor, if you check page stat you'll see that it was a top 15 schedule. Granted Justin lit up the sections, he never exceeded 5 points against any one team during the regular season. Counting the MSHEL he has now been on the score sheet in 56 straight games. His accomplishments shouldn't be ridiculed based on racking up easy points against lousy teams, he has been productive no matter the competition. Would he have been better off had he bailed out and transferred to a big name program?

Regardless who wins can't we agree that they are both great players who thrived in different circumstances.

No I agree. And understand kloos is an amazing player. And I'm not going off what I've seen ( because I've never seen him play ) but what others are saying, vs the section he played in and the career stats.

It's like when moose lake played hermantown. And the debate was could josh Cisar score on one of the best defensive teams and a top 10 goalie, and he did. All that means to me is that if lakeville scores kloos will be a part of all of them

You might want to do a little research before making some of these statements. Comparing Kloos's to Cisar's stats is utterly ridiculous.

Here are some facts.

Throw out the sectional playoffs. Kloos had 81 regular season points. He played 17 conference games against the same teams that Eagan, Burnsville, Apple Valley, etc. played 17 games against. LS had 8 non-conference regular season games against:

Edina - top 10, in state tourney
White Bear Lake
Stillwater
Breck - ranked 3rd in class A
Roseville
Rochester Century - CUPCAKE (sorry RC fans)
Eden Prairie - top 10 in AA all year long
Hill Murray - top 10 at the end of the year

They played one non-conference game against a section 1AA team, and 2 conference games against a section 1AA team (Lakeville North).

Where are all of the sub-100 teams they supposedly beat up on? Hell, Burnsville and Eagan both played more games against section 1AA teams than Lakeville South did. I'm not sure, but I don't know if Moose Lake and Cisar played anybody ranked HIGHER than Rochester Century.

Just curious.

Kennedy , Rosemount and Century come to mind.. theres 40+ goals right there.. But yea, I can only go off stats like I said.. All I know is what Ive seen East do this season in about 10 games.. They are fast, they cycle and pass better than any top 10 team Ive seen this season, as well as have a pretty amazing PP and are a solid 2 lines .. well 2 1/2 lines..

[keepyourheadup]

So what you're saying is...
Duluth East is the best team...most would agree
You know next to nothing about South or Kloos but feel that gleaning info from their stats is an adequate way to compare them.

While East played the most difficult schedule they had a few cupcakes of their own.
Neuuman brought up a good point...Eagan played the same if not easier schedule than South, should we disect Zajac's or Merchant"s stats as well. Same conference, same cupcakes. Its clear you are a supporter of Duluth hockey and I commend you for that.

Here are few things you likely don't know..

These two teams met at state as peewees with East coming out on top 8-5
They met as bantams at East's home tourney and South won 2-1...oh and by the way Kloos scored short handed in the last minute to beat them.
They scrimmaged this fall and while East was clearly the better team South hung around and ended up tying them.

East could blow them out but thats why they play the game.

[DuluthMMA]

So what you're saying is...
Duluth East is the best team...most would agree
You know next to nothing about South or Kloos but feel that gleaning info from their stats is an adequate way to compare them.

While East played the most difficult schedule they had a few cupcakes of their own.
Neuuman brought up a good point...Eagan played the same if not easier schedule than South, should we disect Zajac's or Merchant"s stats as well. Same conference, same cupcakes. Its clear you are a supporter of Duluth hockey and I commend you for that.

Here are few things you likely don't know..

These two teams met at state as peewees with East coming out on top 8-5
They met as bantams at East's home tourney and South won 2-1...oh and by the way Kloos scored short handed in the last minute to beat them.
They scrimmaged this fall and while East was clearly the better team South hung around and ended up tying them.

East could blow them out but thats why they play the game.

Yes I am a Duluth/ northern fan so I am Biased.. All I said was east was a better team, but I have nothing to go off of other than states and online or live games Ive seen this year, and they are on a different level than 99% of the teams I saw..

Ill be the first to agree that easts tending, and "D" is sup-par compared to former East teams who have been know to having good goalies and "D" , But Moore, and Repensky are a great pair, and if Kloos is as good as everyone says he is they still will have a tough time.. Ppl were right in the pre season this year when they said they will miss Johnson and Bergerson , but they have done very well, as has LS..

bottom line it will be a good test and the Better team that day will win, so there is no point in my Preference ticking ppl off

[Neuuman]

Kennedy , Rosemount and Century come to mind.. theres 40+ goals right there.. But yea, I can only go off stats like I said.. All I know is what Ive seen East do this season in about 10 games.. They are fast, they cycle and pass better than any top 10 team Ive seen this season, as well as have a pretty amazing PP and are a solid 2 lines .. well 2 1/2 lines..[/quote]

O.K. - fair enough. Kloos had 17 points in those 4 games, leaving him with 64 points in the other 21 games for an average of 3.04 PPG. Randolph averaged 2.64 PPG's in all 25 games. If you throw out the 8 points Randolph had in the games against Cambridge/Isanti and St. Cloud Tech, his PPG goes to 2.52. (please grant me that those two teams are not world beaters)

I know there are a lot of other factors to consider, but to suggest that Kloos's point total for the regular season is overly inflated by playing, as you said, a "weak 1AA schedule" is totally inaccurate.

Next, do you want to boil it down to the games in which Kloos only scored one point (in which they went 2-1) and say that's the best measurement to compare to Randolph?

I am not trying to make this a "bash Jake Randolph" post. He's a great player. But to suggest that Kloos's accomplishments came only because he played inferior competition is completely off base.

[DuluthMMA]

Kennedy , Rosemount and Century come to mind.. theres 40+ goals right there.. But yea, I can only go off stats like I said.. All I know is what Ive seen East do this season in about 10 games.. They are fast, they cycle and pass better than any top 10 team Ive seen this season, as well as have a pretty amazing PP and are a solid 2 lines .. well 2 1/2 lines..

O.K. - fair enough. Kloos had 17 points in those 4 games, leaving him with 64 points in the other 21 games for an average of 3.04 PPG. Randolph averaged 2.64 PPG's in all 25 games. If you throw out the 8 points Randolph had in the games against Cambridge/Isanti and St. Cloud Tech, his PPG goes to 2.52. (please grant me that those two teams are not world beaters)

I know there are a lot of other factors to consider, but to suggest that Kloos's point total for the regular season is overly inflated by playing, as you said, a "weak 1AA schedule" is totally inaccurate.

Next, do you want to boil it down to the games in which Kloos only scored one point (in which they went 2-1) and say that's the best measurement to compare to Randolph?

I am not trying to make this a "bash Jake Randolph" post. He's a great player. But to suggest that Kloos's accomplishments came only because he played inferior competition is completely off base.[/quote]

not at all and I agree with you.. If LS were to play Tonka, BSM, Maple Grove, we would all have a better idea on how they might match up.. And Im not turning this into a "LS bash fest" I was just standing by the team which IMO has been the best team ive seen all year... and 2 players will not win the game, unless East flops... Which I dont see happening

[almostashappy]

They played one non-conference game against a section 1AA team, and 2 conference games against a section 1AA team (Lakeville North).

Where are all of the sub-100 teams they supposedly beat up on? Hell, Burnsville and Eagan both played more games against section 1AA teams than Lakeville South did. I'm not sure, but I don't know if Moose Lake and Cisar played anybody ranked HIGHER than Rochester Century.

Just curious.

Only Sec 1AA teams that Eagan played were 2x LS and 2x LN (conference games). I guess it's technically true that Eagan faced more 1AA foes than South did, just because South is in 1AA itself, but it's a silly, non-germane comparison if the issue is strength of schedule.

[Neuuman]

Kennedy , Rosemount and Century come to mind.. theres 40+ goals right there.. But yea, I can only go off stats like I said.. All I know is what Ive seen East do this season in about 10 games.. They are fast, they cycle and pass better than any top 10 team Ive seen this season, as well as have a pretty amazing PP and are a solid 2 lines .. well 2 1/2 lines..

O.K. - fair enough. Kloos had 17 points in those 4 games, leaving him with 64 points in the other 21 games for an average of 3.04 PPG. Randolph averaged 2.64 PPG's in all 25 games. If you throw out the 8 points Randolph had in the games against Cambridge/Isanti and St. Cloud Tech, his PPG goes to 2.52. (please grant me that those two teams are not world beaters)

I know there are a lot of other factors to consider, but to suggest that Kloos's point total for the regular season is overly inflated by playing, as you said, a "weak 1AA schedule" is totally inaccurate.

Next, do you want to boil it down to the games in which Kloos only scored one point (in which they went 2-1) and say that's the best measurement to compare to Randolph?

I am not trying to make this a "bash Jake Randolph" post. He's a great player. But to suggest that Kloos's accomplishments came only because he played inferior competition is completely off base.

not at all and I agree with you.. If LS were to play Tonka, BSM, Maple Grove, we would all have a better idea on how they might match up.. And Im not turning this into a "LS bash fest" I was just standing by the team which IMO has been the best team ive seen all year... and 2 players will not win the game, unless East flops... Which I dont see happening[/quote]

Thank you - you have to admit, that's a long way from comparing LS and Kloos to Moose Lake and Cisar. Now let's let the puck drop and see what happens.

[Neuuman]

They played one non-conference game against a section 1AA team, and 2 conference games against a section 1AA team (Lakeville North).

Where are all of the sub-100 teams they supposedly beat up on? Hell, Burnsville and Eagan both played more games against section 1AA teams than Lakeville South did. I'm not sure, but I don't know if Moose Lake and Cisar played anybody ranked HIGHER than Rochester Century.

Just curious.

Only Sec 1AA teams that Eagan played were 2x LS and 2x LN (conference games). I guess it's technically true that Eagan faced more 1AA foes than South did, just because South is in 1AA itself, but it's a silly, non-germane comparison if the issue is strength of schedule.

O.K. - other than Century, where was LS's non-conference schedule soft? They played 4 top ten teams (A and AA) and in a tournament where they had no control over who they played. It seems to me I remember Eagan playing Hopkins this year. I'm a Hopkins alumni, but they aren't exactly the Detroit Red Wings. With the way everybody on this site bashes everybody in section 1AA, I did think it was germane.

[Turk182]

So much for the Kloos vs Randolph battle for Mr. Hockey...

[east hockey]

So much for the Kloos vs Randolph battle for Mr. Hockey...

This was decided before the State Tournament, wasn't it?

Lee

[Sats81]

So much for the Kloos vs Randolph battle for Mr. Hockey...

This was decided before the State Tournament, wasn't it?

Lee

lol.

No kidding. Kloos didn't even have his best game tonight. Still 2 pts vs the Hounds. Just shows how good he is.

[Turk182]

So much for the Kloos vs Randolph battle for Mr. Hockey...

This was decided before the State Tournament, wasn't it?

Lee

I suppose it may have officially been but it was the first I have had to see Kloos. Although it appears that Kloos has plenty of talented teammates as well. So much for all the arguments that he's a one man team.

[Neuuman]

So much for the Kloos vs Randolph battle for Mr. Hockey...

This was decided before the State Tournament, wasn't it?

Lee

I suppose it may have officially been but it was the first I have had to see Kloos. Although it appears that Kloos has plenty of talented teammates as well. So much for all the arguments that he's a one man team.

Thank God somebody on here finally acknowledged that LS has a formidable "team". Joe Freemark looked like Nicolas Lidstrom tonight. Good luck tomorrow LS.

[Neuuman]

Kennedy , Rosemount and Century come to mind.. theres 40+ goals right there.. But yea, I can only go off stats like I said.. All I know is what Ive seen East do this season in about 10 games.. They are fast, they cycle and pass better than any top 10 team Ive seen this season, as well as have a pretty amazing PP and are a solid 2 lines .. well 2 1/2 lines..

O.K. - fair enough. Kloos had 17 points in those 4 games, leaving him with 64 points in the other 21 games for an average of 3.04 PPG. Randolph averaged 2.64 PPG's in all 25 games. If you throw out the 8 points Randolph had in the games against Cambridge/Isanti and St. Cloud Tech, his PPG goes to 2.52. (please grant me that those two teams are not world beaters)

I know there are a lot of other factors to consider, but to suggest that Kloos's point total for the regular season is overly inflated by playing, as you said, a "weak 1AA schedule" is totally inaccurate.

Next, do you want to boil it down to the games in which Kloos only scored one point (in which they went 2-1) and say that's the best measurement to compare to Randolph?

I am not trying to make this a "bash Jake Randolph" post. He's a great player. But to suggest that Kloos's accomplishments came only because he played inferior competition is completely off base.

not at all and I agree with you.. If LS were to play Tonka, BSM, Maple Grove, we would all have a better idea on how they might match up.. And Im not turning this into a "LS bash fest" I was just standing by the team which IMO has been the best team ive seen all year... and 2 players will not win the game, unless East flops... Which I dont see happening[/quote]

How will Kloos and LS (and maybe more importantly, Freemark) stack up against Duluth East? I'm guessing just fine.

[Gopher Blog]

Justin Kloos wins it. Congrats to him.

[east hockey]

Congrats, Justin! A well deserved honor.

Lee

[really?]

Congratulations to Justin!! Very deserved in all respects!!

[ihatethestlblues]

Lee -

sooo you don't want to have a 4 thread debate about whether there should be a mr. private school hockey and a mr. public school hockey?

[Turk182]