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Hockey Hub Top 100 Players
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The Exiled One



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norwich at 13
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The Exiled One



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
Posts: 1181

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the order the only surprise left?

Mike Antonovich
Henry Boucha
Aaron Broten
Neal Broten
Mike Crowley
Phil Housley
Willard Ikola
John Matchefts
John Mayasich
Kyle Rau
Tim Sheehy
Dave Spehar
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starmvp



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am very interested to see when Mayasich goes.... Personally I think top 3, but we'll see!
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karl(east)



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Did my old eye miss a kid by the name of Ryan Kraft out of Moorhead?
If not where is he in the rankings? As I recall he was a very good high school hockey player and quite dominant at that. Was one helluva a player at U of M after high school. Did this kid just slip through the cracks or did I just miss him out of the list?


Unless I missed him too, he slipped through the cracks.

Of the remaining 12, by decade:

40s: 3
50s: 0
60s: 3
70s: 2
80s: 1
90s: 2
00s: 1

Pretty good balance, really. Large gaps from the 50s to the late 60s and from Spehar to Rau, but nothing too glaring.
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old goalie85



Joined: 25 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Leaving out Kraft is a surprise, but what a list of great players. Wow......
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MNHockeyFan



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 4918

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNHockeyFan wrote:
I'm thinking Craig Norwich will be named fairly soon.


The Exiled One wrote:
Norwich at 13


Cool
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northern_guy



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
Posts: 141

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can someone be completely honest and verify how good an old timer like mayasich would have been playing in say last years state tournament or anything within the last 20years? would he have been able to dangle as well, shoot as hard or accurate and snipe corners like todays guys can do? i understand he scored a ton of points, played in the olympics etc but i just don't think they faced enough good competition back then day in and day out and. also, how good was a goaltender with catalogs strapped to his legs and no helmet or mask on? for gods sake coudl you imagine how many goals there would be today if that was the case. while i am sure he deserves a spot on this list...i think he should have been very early on, just like herb brooks probably should have been left off this list.
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goldy313



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really can't compare eras very well. So many factors have changed, year around ice, composite sticks, bigger and lighter equipment, etc. You could ask how good would have Kyle Rau been in a different era?
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northern_guy



Joined: 29 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

goldy313 wrote:
You really can't compare eras very well. So many factors have changed, year around ice, composite sticks, bigger and lighter equipment, etc. You could ask how good would have Kyle Rau been in a different era?


i agree...the skates and sticks of the 40's and 50's were horrendous, that's why i have a difficult time when mayasich is put on such a pedestal. he might be the be the nicest guy in the world for all i know, but i just don't think he can hold a candle to todays players who play year round with better equiptment, training, facilities, strenght training etc.
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PanthersIn2011



Joined: 05 Jan 2007
Posts: 188

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayasich has four state titles, a ton of records and a nice post-high school career at the U of M. I don't see anyone else with those credentials. I think he's #1 on this list.

I'm in the camp that believes the great players would be great in any era.
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Gopher Blog



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1408

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northern_guy wrote:
goldy313 wrote:
You really can't compare eras very well. So many factors have changed, year around ice, composite sticks, bigger and lighter equipment, etc. You could ask how good would have Kyle Rau been in a different era?


i agree...the skates and sticks of the 40's and 50's were horrendous, that's why i have a difficult time when mayasich is put on such a pedestal. he might be the be the nicest guy in the world for all i know, but i just don't think he can hold a candle to todays players who play year round with better equiptment, training, facilities, strenght training etc.


You could also use the logic that how much better would he have been with today's equipment, training, facilities, etc.

I'd also point out that he became an all time great on the college level too where the competition level was even better.

At some point, you just have to give credit where credit is due and look past your own generational bias.
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islesskater



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mayasich will be number one and he deserves it.

I think we can agree that each generation or era has it's own version of an even playing field, and nobody has come close to dominating that playing field the way Mayasich did.

Would the John Mayasich of 1950 be that good in today's game? Of course not, but it's impossible to say how good he might have been given an even playing field with today's kids.

While it's true that those who "were there first" like Babe Ruth in baseball, Wilt and Russell in hoops (first in being really mobile big men), and John Mayasich in Minnesota High School Hockey might have some sort of intrinsic advantage when compiling lists such as this, you still have to give them their due.

Herb Brooks called Mayasich the smartest hockey player he ever saw, and Herb saw his fair share.

The guy practiced with the Olympic team ONCE before the 1960 Olympics and went out and got a hat trick in their first game.

I'm guessing Neal Broten #2 and Henry Boucha #3.
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elliott70



Joined: 08 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PanthersIn2011 wrote:
Mayasich has four state titles, a ton of records and a nice post-high school career at the U of M. I don't see anyone else with those credentials. I think he's #1 on this list.

I'm in the camp that believes the great players would be great in any era.


Sheehy - 3 state titles and a 1 state runner-up
4 years at BC and a pro career
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east hockey
Site Admin


Joined: 10 Dec 2002
Posts: 5905
Location: Proctor, MN

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the criteria: "Points awarded on playersí overall impact and how he compared to other players from the same era".

So, it has nothing to do with comparing Mayasich during his time (1947-51) with how he'd be today. Compared to the players of his time, he was way above everybody else. As said before, four state titles. Nobody has come even close to doing what he did in the State Tournament. 36 goals, 46 points in four tournaments. Those are sick numbers.

Applying the criteria they are using, Mayasich is #1. Easily, in my opinion.

Lee
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karl(east)



Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's also important to recognize players who not only are great, but change the way the game is played. Most if not all of Babe Ruth's records have been broken now, but most people still consider him the greatest player ever because he fundamentally changed baseball. Before him, practically no one tried to hit home runs at all; it just wasn't part of the game. He revolutionized the sport?

Mayasich? Well, he's generally credited with inventing the slapshot. I'm not sure if that's on par with the rise of the home run, but it's probably up there.

No, he probably wouldn't put up the same numbers if he played today. But I'm not sure what more one could ask out of him. Consider how many players went through MN hockey between 1949 and 1996--I'm sure some of them played very weak (and longer) schedules. But it took that long for someone to finally pass his points total.

I'm probably more biased towards the modern era than some are (I definitely think Rau deserves to go as high as he will), but I still think Mayasich is #1.
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MNHockeyFan



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remember also that until the 1970's they played only 12 minute periods in Minnesota high school hockey vs. the 17 minute periods today. So the oldtimers like Mayasich basically had one less period every game to put up their points. They also played fewer games every season.
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MNHockeyFan



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O-townClown wrote:
Corey Millen at #23.


This guy thought he should have been ranked way higher:

http://www.pinejournal.com/event/article/id/25144/group/Sports/
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O-townClown



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 2786
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNHockeyFan wrote:
This guy thought he should have been ranked way higher:

http://www.pinejournal.com/event/article/id/25144/group/Sports/


Thanks for sharing. I thought Corey Millen would finish higher too. My only qualm is with his reasoning. He compares Millen to Bloom and George Pelawa.

Bloom was the star player on two State Champion teams. The list honors greatness and leading a team to a state title means something.

George Pelawa wasn't the most prolific scorer, so why compare points? I had a class at the U of M with Corey...he's an inch shorter than me. (I'm 5'8") Big George pasted guys so hard they had to rearrange the name on their jersey to get it spelled right. His impact - pun unavoidable - went beyond goals and assists.

All that said, Pelawa shows up much higher than I would have placed him and Millen's a little lower. That's what makes this all fun.
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O-townClown



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Did my old eye miss a kid by the name of Ryan Kraft out of Moorhead?
If not where is he in the rankings? As I recall he was a very good high school hockey player and quite dominant at that. Was one helluva a player at U of M after high school. Did this kid just slip through the cracks or did I just miss him out of the list?


We can go on and on with outstanding players that didn't make the Top 100. He's not alone.

Peter Hankinson played on the 1984 state champs as a sophomore, was a top player on the team ranked #1 much of the year in 1986, and scored about 175 points at the U of M where he was Captain.

Dave Maley played on the 1982 state champs, enjoyed a very productive college career at Madison, and played a long time in the NHL.

Jefferson had so many good players during their heyday that Toby Petersen, Ben Clymer, and a few notable others are left out.

I'm sure others have their favorites from the past that they can add to the list. Tom Hirsch is one name that kept coming up and it looks like he's not going to crack the list either.
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northwoods oldtimer



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

O-townClown wrote:
northwoods oldtimer wrote:
Did my old eye miss a kid by the name of Ryan Kraft out of Moorhead?
If not where is he in the rankings? As I recall he was a very good high school hockey player and quite dominant at that. Was one helluva a player at U of M after high school. Did this kid just slip through the cracks or did I just miss him out of the list?


We can go on and on with outstanding players that didn't make the Top 100. He's not alone.

Peter Hankinson played on the 1984 state champs as a sophomore, was a top player on the team ranked #1 much of the year in 1986, and scored about 175 points at the U of M where he was Captain.

Dave Maley played on the 1982 state champs, enjoyed a very productive college career at Madison, and played a long time in the NHL.

Jefferson had so many good players during their heyday that Toby Petersen, Ben Clymer, and a few notable others are left out.

I'm sure others have their favorites from the past that they can add to the list. Tom Hirsch is one name that kept coming up and it looks like he's not going to crack the list either.


I think you might have quantified the fact that a few guys on the list could easily have been replaced. However none of your guys mentioned put up Kraft type points in St. Paul a criteria evidently overlooked by the Hub staff. The kid was consistent as one can be in the sport and his point totals in the AHL and Europe prove that also.

Ryan Kraft:
Season Team Lge GP G A Pts PIM
1994-95 U. of Minnesota WCHA 44 13 33 46 44 ##
1995-96 U. of Minnesota WCHA 41 13 24 37 24 ##
1996-97 U. of Minnesota WCHA 42 25 21 46 37 ##
1997-98 U. of Minnesota WCHA 32 11 26 37 16

Ryan Kraft State Hockey Tournament 1994:
G A Pts
1994 -- AA Ryan Kraft, Moorhead 8 1 9

1993-94 Moorhead GP G A Pts PIM
27 44 40 84 40
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The Exiled One



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aaron Broten at #12
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MNHockeyFan



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Exiled One wrote:
Aaron Broten at #12


One of the most fun to watch Gopher players ever. But this is the play I remember most, and it's not a pleasant memory. From an old interview:

GH.com: Thinking back to your days as a Gopher, which game/games stick out the most and why?

Broten: There are two games that definitely stick out more than any other and more than 20 years later, they are unfortunately still fresh in mind. The first is the loss to Wisconsin in the 1981 title game in Duluth. The other one is when I scored a goal against Northern Michigan in the NCAA tournament, and it went through the net, and the net judge didnít see it go in. We lost by one goal.

Crying or Very sad

http://www.gopherhole.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=946
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C-dad



Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MNHockeyFan wrote:
The Exiled One wrote:
Aaron Broten at #12


One of the most fun to watch Gopher players ever. But this is the play I remember most, and it's not a pleasant memory. From an old interview:

GH.com: Thinking back to your days as a Gopher, which game/games stick out the most and why?

Broten: There are two games that definitely stick out more than any other and more than 20 years later, they are unfortunately still fresh in mind. The first is the loss to Wisconsin in the 1981 title game in Duluth. The other one is when I scored a goal against Northern Michigan in the NCAA tournament, and it went through the net, and the net judge didnít see it go in. We lost by one goal.

Crying or Very sad

http://www.gopherhole.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=946


I was in the upper deck at the old Williams arena rink for that one. Buddy and looked at each other and said "that went in, what the hell happened?" Crying or Very sad
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The Exiled One



Joined: 20 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would some of you care to take a crack at ranking the final 11? Maybe you'd like to wait until the final 10.

Mike Antonovich
Henry Boucha
Neal Broten
Mike Crowley
Phil Housley
Willard Ikola
John Matchefts
John Mayasich
Kyle Rau
Tim Sheehy
Dave Spehar

I'm no HS hockey historian, so I think I'll stick to alphabetical order. Smile
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MNHockeyFan



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

C-dad wrote:
I was in the upper deck at the old Williams arena rink for that one. Buddy and looked at each other and said "that went in, what the hell happened?" Crying or Very sad


My seats were on the railing, at the red line just above where the Zamboni came out. Had the perfect view of his shot go in and through - there wasn't any doubt. Couldn't believe none of the 3 Blind Mice called it. Everyone sitting around me saw it and started screaming. But unfortunately, there was no video replay in those days and the Gophers's season ended that night...
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