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Edina Junior Gold A better than Varsity team?
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Tigers33



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve Fogarty - 40pts - graduated - F
Michael Sit - 31pts - graduated - F
Ben Walker - 30pts - left for juniors - F
Jake Sampson - 24pts - graduated - F
Max Everson - 21pts - graduated - D
Jon Cote - 15pts - graduated - F
Ben Ostlie - 10 pts - graduated - D
Denn - graduated
Marcus Jones - graduated

Returners:
Louie Nanne 23pts - F
Anthony Walsh 12pts -
Bo Brauer 11pts
Andy Jordahl - 8pts
Nick Leer - 8pts
Parker Reno
Matt Nelson

Guys that seemed to be missing -
Dietzler
Hardacker - not even on active roster at the end of the year.
Pederson - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Bakke - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Blanek
Combined points - 15

I think they will be just fine with the new kids compared to these ones...Seriously people!!!!

Where are all these kids we are talking about? Not common to see seniors cut like this if they dont fit in. You people crack me up!!!
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Ugottobekiddingme



Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another observation, although it will be difficult for a number of senior players being demoted from the Edina HS team, and many harbor resentment towards what would be considered "the shaft", time will tell if the coach made the appropriate decision positioning the team. Many other teams opportunistic candidates found refuge within the private and public sector school system (legit!!!!!!) and brought some friends along the way. Can JGA teams beat HS varsity talent?...great discussion fodder, but we will never know the answer to that question.
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HockeyGuy81



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 220

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bafata88 wrote:
Wow, a topic I can sink my teeth into.

Five JGA players from the class of 2012 have varsity experience; another senior with varsity experience did not tryout for any team. The Class of 2012, more than any class I can think of in recent memory at Edina, got pushed aside [shafted??] From those seniors, there would be, at the very least, a strong number two varsity line at Edina. Early last season the coaching staff dropped most of the juniors on the varsity team to the JV; at that point, the writing, seemingly, was on the wall: Giles had given up on the Class of 2012.

For those of you who dismiss the argument that the JGA team could beat the varsity team and pontificate that such claims could come only from someone who knows "nothing" about hockey obviously do not know how the Edina system works or who the players are. Like many programs, there are favorites at Edina and it has nothing to do with who is better or who has more potential. The top line or two, without question, is going to made up of superior players. After that, there is little difference between the next 25 players or so. And that is where the coaches get to wield their discretion. And those guys have made some mysterious decisions; just ask anyone from Edina.

Pound for pound the Varsity team this year probably has too much speed and skill to lose to the JGA. The JGA would win against the JV team 9 out of 10 times. A Varsity vs. JGA match-up would be a fun one to watch though; and I think it would be alot closer than some of you hockey "experts" would like to believe; goaltending is undoubtedly a big question mark.


Lots of quotation marks doesn't give your post more validity.
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green4



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 554
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think it would actually be a close game, edina only beat buffalo 4-0 tonight and ya the senior skaters that were cut aren't that talented but the reason the JGA team might win is, they have the best goalie in Dalbac while varsity has benjamin who is very good but they also have beaupre who is not good at all. if they scrimmaged and beaupre played i would give the edge to JGA because of that and also the varsity team is small and won't be very physical compared to the very big JGA team
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bafata88



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pound for pound the Varsity team this year probably has too much speed and skill to lose to the JGA............

Lots of quotation marks doesn't give your post more validity.[/quote]

I suppose not, maybe there is some validity because there are facts supporting it; "nothing" and "experts"??; perhaps you are one of the experts.
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bafata88



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigers33 wrote:
Steve Fogarty - 40pts - graduated - F
Michael Sit - 31pts - graduated - F
Ben Walker - 30pts - left for juniors - F
Jake Sampson - 24pts - graduated - F
Max Everson - 21pts - graduated - D
Jon Cote - 15pts - graduated - F
Ben Ostlie - 10 pts - graduated - D
Denn - graduated
Marcus Jones - graduated

Returners:
Louie Nanne 23pts - F
Anthony Walsh 12pts -
Bo Brauer 11pts
Andy Jordahl - 8pts
Nick Leer - 8pts
Parker Reno
Matt Nelson

Guys that seemed to be missing -
Dietzler
Hardacker - not even on active roster at the end of the year.
Pederson - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Bakke - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Blanek
Combined points - 15

I think they will be just fine with the new kids compared to these ones...Seriously people!!!!

Where are all these kids we are talking about? Not common to see seniors cut like this if they dont fit in. You people crack me up!!!


Dietzler hurt most of the year; Hardacker quit after getting sent to JV and did not try out this year; Pederson/Bakke/Baker all good D who ended up playing mostly JV and mysterious cuts this year; Blanek big and strong and played Varsity as a soph, JV as a junior and a mysterious cut this year.

They are all good players who would have probably scored just as many varisty points last year as some of the returners [but we will never know because they did not play much varsity]. I disagree with your presumption that because they did not play alot of varsity last year and did not put up points that somehow they are inferior players to those who did play varsity. They really did not get much of a chance last year. But they were all good enough to make the varsity at some point and would all be at least 2d line this year. But the coaches in their infinite wisdom did not see it that way eh.
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green4



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 554
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bafata88 wrote:
Tigers33 wrote:
Steve Fogarty - 40pts - graduated - F
Michael Sit - 31pts - graduated - F
Ben Walker - 30pts - left for juniors - F
Jake Sampson - 24pts - graduated - F
Max Everson - 21pts - graduated - D
Jon Cote - 15pts - graduated - F
Ben Ostlie - 10 pts - graduated - D
Denn - graduated
Marcus Jones - graduated

Returners:
Louie Nanne 23pts - F
Anthony Walsh 12pts -
Bo Brauer 11pts
Andy Jordahl - 8pts
Nick Leer - 8pts
Parker Reno
Matt Nelson

Guys that seemed to be missing -
Dietzler
Hardacker - not even on active roster at the end of the year.
Pederson - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Bakke - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Blanek
Combined points - 15

I think they will be just fine with the new kids compared to these ones...Seriously people!!!!

Where are all these kids we are talking about? Not common to see seniors cut like this if they dont fit in. You people crack me up!!!


Dietzler hurt most of the year; Hardacker quit after getting sent to JV and did not try out this year; Pederson/Bakke/Baker all good D who ended up playing mostly JV and mysterious cuts this year; Blanek big and strong and played Varsity as a soph, JV as a junior and a mysterious cut this year.

They are all good players who would have probably scored just as many varisty points last year as some of the returners [but we will never know because they did not play much varsity]. I disagree with your presumption that because they did not play alot of varsity last year and did not put up points that somehow they are inferior players to those who did play varsity. They really did not get much of a chance last year. But they were all good enough to make the varsity at some point and would all be at least 2d line this year. But the coaches in their infinite wisdom did not see it that way eh.

bakke actually made varsity but then had a serious knee injury and missed the rest of the year
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Slap Shot



Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 475

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HockeyGuy81 wrote:
bafata88 wrote:
Wow, a topic I can sink my teeth into.

Five JGA players from the class of 2012 have varsity experience; another senior with varsity experience did not tryout for any team. The Class of 2012, more than any class I can think of in recent memory at Edina, got pushed aside [shafted??] From those seniors, there would be, at the very least, a strong number two varsity line at Edina. Early last season the coaching staff dropped most of the juniors on the varsity team to the JV; at that point, the writing, seemingly, was on the wall: Giles had given up on the Class of 2012.

For those of you who dismiss the argument that the JGA team could beat the varsity team and pontificate that such claims could come only from someone who knows "nothing" about hockey obviously do not know how the Edina system works or who the players are. Like many programs, there are favorites at Edina and it has nothing to do with who is better or who has more potential. The top line or two, without question, is going to made up of superior players. After that, there is little difference between the next 25 players or so. And that is where the coaches get to wield their discretion. And those guys have made some mysterious decisions; just ask anyone from Edina.

Pound for pound the Varsity team this year probably has too much speed and skill to lose to the JGA. The JGA would win against the JV team 9 out of 10 times. A Varsity vs. JGA match-up would be a fun one to watch though; and I think it would be alot closer than some of you hockey "experts" would like to believe; goaltending is undoubtedly a big question mark.


Lots of quotation marks doesn't give your post more validity.


Solid retort.
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Tigers33



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 years ago the only player that had any points was Blanek with 1 goal and an assist. So that group of players accounted for 15 varsity points in the last 2 years.

I think edina will be better off without them. Its not fun to see stuff like this happen, but its part of life. Are some Edina people frustrated that there was a down class?

Are there some players and parents whining on here about themselves or their kids? Probably...My prediction - These kids were better than the ones that got cut. In a lot of places a senior must be in the top 6-9 forwards and top 4 defenseman to make the roster. At least they have a junior gold team. A lot of communities dont and than kids are forced to quit.

Stop whining you cake eaters!
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stpaul



Joined: 09 Jun 2006
Posts: 982

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Edina Reply with quote

Interesting thread. A couple of observations from the outside:

1. It's nice to see Edina has the same problems that the rest of the world has.
2. I wouldn't want Curt Giles' job.
3. You can't argue with his success. He has returned Edina to prominence. He has 5 straight titles in a very tough section. He has won a state championship, a state runnerup & was twice consolation champs in those 5 years.
4. It appears that this is about 4-5 juniors that played mostly JV last year that got cut as seniors. That is tough. It that kid was my son or friend or nephew I too would want to lash out at the Coach. However there is nothing unusual about that in the top programs. Every year coaches have to make tough decisions and cut seniors in favor of young players that they want to develope for the future.
5. Some of the arguments above are just plain silly.
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Edgy



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 136

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well put stpaul
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keepyourheadup



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 985

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree, back in the days prior to the internet and not stop blogging people behind the scene at Jefferson talked about the same thing happening with Sats. He played a good number of Fresh and Sophs at the expense of seniors who were good enough to play but ended up on the outside looking in. It was about what was best in the long run and their success speaks for itself. In programs of this size the one year senior just doesn't happen to often.
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The Insider



Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 81

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this a joke?
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northernhockey13



Joined: 05 Nov 2011
Posts: 23

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Insider wrote:
Is this a joke?


Honestly edina varsity would handle the jr gold team
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BearsSensGophs



Joined: 10 Feb 2009
Posts: 198
Location: White Bear Lake

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edina varsity wins this one 5-1 at least.
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vonney16



Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i went to edina and transferred but i saw the last two games there is no chance junior gold A could win Besides as someone said if you took away reno and nelson they'd be better off walker does better moving the puck and making a play while those two look for hits. Edina's varsity isn't great i won't lie about that but Giles picks the best team like herb brooks he doesnt pick the best players he picks the right ones
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vonney16



Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4 wrote:
bafata88 wrote:
Tigers33 wrote:
Steve Fogarty - 40pts - graduated - F
Michael Sit - 31pts - graduated - F
Ben Walker - 30pts - left for juniors - F
Jake Sampson - 24pts - graduated - F
Max Everson - 21pts - graduated - D
Jon Cote - 15pts - graduated - F
Ben Ostlie - 10 pts - graduated - D
Denn - graduated
Marcus Jones - graduated

Returners:
Louie Nanne 23pts - F
Anthony Walsh 12pts -
Bo Brauer 11pts
Andy Jordahl - 8pts
Nick Leer - 8pts
Parker Reno
Matt Nelson

Guys that seemed to be missing -
Dietzler
Hardacker - not even on active roster at the end of the year.
Pederson - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Bakke - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Blanek
Combined points - 15

I think they will be just fine with the new kids compared to these ones...Seriously people!!!!

Where are all these kids we are talking about? Not common to see seniors cut like this if they dont fit in. You people crack me up!!!


Dietzler hurt most of the year; Hardacker quit after getting sent to JV and did not try out this year; Pederson/Bakke/Baker all good D who ended up playing mostly JV and mysterious cuts this year; Blanek big and strong and played Varsity as a soph, JV as a junior and a mysterious cut this year.

They are all good players who would have probably scored just as many varisty points last year as some of the returners [but we will never know because they did not play much varsity]. I disagree with your presumption that because they did not play alot of varsity last year and did not put up points that somehow they are inferior players to those who did play varsity. They really did not get much of a chance last year. But they were all good enough to make the varsity at some point and would all be at least 2d line this year. But the coaches in their infinite wisdom did not see it that way eh.

bakke actually made varsity but then had a serious knee injury and missed the rest of the year


Blanek would get 2-3 penalties
Pederson was scared to get hit
Bakke and Baker couldn't play their positions and they all deserve to be where they are
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edinahornetkid24



Joined: 02 Jan 2009
Posts: 120
Location: Southwest Mpls

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vonney16 wrote:
green4 wrote:
bafata88 wrote:
Tigers33 wrote:
Steve Fogarty - 40pts - graduated - F
Michael Sit - 31pts - graduated - F
Ben Walker - 30pts - left for juniors - F
Jake Sampson - 24pts - graduated - F
Max Everson - 21pts - graduated - D
Jon Cote - 15pts - graduated - F
Ben Ostlie - 10 pts - graduated - D
Denn - graduated
Marcus Jones - graduated

Returners:
Louie Nanne 23pts - F
Anthony Walsh 12pts -
Bo Brauer 11pts
Andy Jordahl - 8pts
Nick Leer - 8pts
Parker Reno
Matt Nelson

Guys that seemed to be missing -
Dietzler
Hardacker - not even on active roster at the end of the year.
Pederson - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Bakke - apparently not in the top 4 for defenseman
Blanek
Combined points - 15

I think they will be just fine with the new kids compared to these ones...Seriously people!!!!

Where are all these kids we are talking about? Not common to see seniors cut like this if they dont fit in. You people crack me up!!!


Dietzler hurt most of the year; Hardacker quit after getting sent to JV and did not try out this year; Pederson/Bakke/Baker all good D who ended up playing mostly JV and mysterious cuts this year; Blanek big and strong and played Varsity as a soph, JV as a junior and a mysterious cut this year.

They are all good players who would have probably scored just as many varisty points last year as some of the returners [but we will never know because they did not play much varsity]. I disagree with your presumption that because they did not play alot of varsity last year and did not put up points that somehow they are inferior players to those who did play varsity. They really did not get much of a chance last year. But they were all good enough to make the varsity at some point and would all be at least 2d line this year. But the coaches in their infinite wisdom did not see it that way eh.

bakke actually made varsity but then had a serious knee injury and missed the rest of the year


Blanek would get 2-3 penalties
Pederson was scared to get hit
Bakke and Baker couldn't play their positions and they all deserve to be where they are


Couldn't agree more
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dullskates



Joined: 26 Nov 2011
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:05 pm    Post subject: edina varsity Junior Gold Reply with quote

Tryouts are never fun, not for the kids, the parents and the coaching staff. Do you think anyone really likes to make cuts? Every year, every program has skilled kids that get cut. Its not pleasant, we all have a different point of view about skills and what mix best constitutes a team. I guess that is why there is only one high school coach.

In terms of kids going to play at other schools, if they have the opportunity that is great. Communities like Edina, Wayzata, EP all have such large youth programs and have many kids have varsity hockey skills. Unfortunately, a high school team typically only has 3 lines and plays maybe 4 defenseman. I did not attend school in the metro area, but heard that Ike always had a senior, junior and sophmore line. Don't know if that is correct.. I expect there were also some very good junior gold teams in those years too.

I am sure there will be a lot of what ifs and water thrown over the boards on this topic, especially after a loss by Edina today. Just a suggestion, support your skater on whatever team they play on.

Also, have they already picked Junior A teams, seems early...

Drop the puck......and enjoy the game, whichever one you watch...
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MNHockeyFan



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 4919

PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dullskates, very well said.
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Ugottobekiddingme



Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 320

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: edina varsity Junior Gold Reply with quote

Quote:
Also, have they already picked Junior A teams, seems early...


Seriously...when do most associations create the Metro league JR gold teams?...or should I ask when are the HS teams assembled in conjunction with Bantam A placement? It's never fun but always full of entertainment for all Wink .
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bafata88



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

vonney16 wrote:
i went to edina and transferred but i saw the last two games there is no chance junior gold A could win Besides as someone said if you took away reno and nelson they'd be better off walker does better moving the puck and making a play while those two look for hits. Edina's varsity isn't great i won't lie about that but Giles picks the best team like herb brooks he doesnt pick the best players he picks the right ones


As I've said before, Giles is no Herb Brooks. And I also think you put too much faith in him. He is not coaching the Olympic team. This is high school hockey. It is not rocket science. And if he were truly picking the right players, a little senior leadership might help a bit this season.
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Tigers33



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 756

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bafata - You seem a little close to this topic. Did you have a family member or maybe it was you that didnt make the team. Its ok, you will be ok. Giles is doing what he feels is best for this program. I think they were going to be in a down year anyways, so why not rebuild with some youth getting quality ice time.
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bafata88



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tigers33 wrote:
Bafata - You seem a little close to this topic. Did you have a family member or maybe it was you that didnt make the team. Its ok, you will be ok. Giles is doing what he feels is best for this program. I think they were going to be in a down year anyways, so why not rebuild with some youth getting quality ice time.


I was not cut; don't have a kid who was cut. But I do know some of the folk from over the years. You are correct, I am ok and will be ok; life is good. There should be a discussion though about how these programs work. I feel for those seniors who had every reason to expect they would get to play their senior year on the varsity team; sure senior cuts are not that uncommon, but in many cases very unfair. Life is unfair right? Great lesson to teach kids when you have the discretion not to teach it. The frosh and sophs could play a little JV just like most underclassmen. And frankly if you really know the decisions made by the Edina coaches over the years, there is very little rhyme or reason to many of them.

Bottom line, I know, Giles is the coach and these are his decisions to make.
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O-townClown



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 2786
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

PostPosted: Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bafata88 wrote:
The frosh and sophs could play a little JV just like most underclassmen.


Agreed in a perfect world, but there is another side to the story.

When Pete Carroll was at USC he landed elite recruits and often played them right away. What did this do? It helped him get more and more and more top recruits.

In today's Twin Cities HS hockey, there are private schools that are sometimes quite willing to play freshmen and sophomores in a very meaningful role. If a public school coach makes kids wait until they are juniors he runs the risk of not getting the next wave.
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