Transfers

[transferprobs]

What do people think about the transfer rule? From what i have seen Connor Hurley went to AHA transferred to Edina so he could win. I don't think this is right especially when i know he didn't even move so what is the point if people cheat around the rule?

[sterfry9]

Must have left AHA because of academics...thats the only reason these HS kids change schools anyways for the better education.

[nikebauer05]

Well I don't really think much of it when someone transfers from or to a private like AHA but there are plenty of other cases with public to public that I can see someone making this argument. But really its what it better for the player/student not what is better for the school that matters in the end IMO.

[mulefarm]

I'm sure Edina has more academic opportunities that Connor felt were in his best interests. Once he made that decision, I'm sure he found out they played hockey and decided to give it a try!

[Rich Clarke]

Where was Hurley living/growing up when he decided to go to Holy Angels? Richfield or Bloomington? Or was it Edina like Anders Lee, who "transferred" from St. Thomas back to his home town team. I have no idea in Hurley's case and am wondering if anyone does.

[C-dad]

Where was Hurley living/growing up when he decided to go to Holy Angels? Richfield or Bloomington? Or was it Edina like Anders Lee, who "transferred" from St. Thomas back to his home town team. I have no idea in Hurley's case and am wondering if anyone does.

My understanding is that he grew up in Eagan and played youth hockey there. His family owned a home in Edina and moved there.

[hockeyguy68]

Where was Hurley living/growing up when he decided to go to Holy Angels? Richfield or Bloomington? Or was it Edina like Anders Lee, who "transferred" from St. Thomas back to his home town team. I have no idea in Hurley's case and am wondering if anyone does.

Hurley lived in Eagan. He played his youth hockey there until he went to Holy Angels (or maybe he went somewhere else for a year in between). I've heard a lot of kids say that he still lives in Eagan.

[transferprobs]

From what i have heard he did not move and i have also heard he is leaving so obviously he only left for hockey. Why should he be able to leave and not sit out a year without actually moving or wanting a better education?

[Bonehead]

EVERYONE that posts here thinks the transfer rules are flawed! Why don't you contact the MSHSL? Don't you think Edina checked with SOMEONE before putting him on their roster?

IMHO there are magnet programs and feeder programs. Sure you can squawk about it but in the end its just noise.

[transferprobs]

the MSHSL would not do anything, just because his family can afford to own a house in two different cities does not give him a right to get around the rule. If he really wanted to go to edina he would have gone there freshman year.

[NoExcuses]

From what i have heard he did not move and i have also heard he is leaving so obviously he only left for hockey. Why should he be able to leave and not sit out a year without actually moving or wanting a better education?

I believe he last played in Eagan as a PW. Then spent a year at SSM, a year at AHA and now Edina.

[transferprobs]

"I believe he last played in Eagan as a PW. Then spent a year at SSM, a year at AHA and now Edina."

I believe the term is called a "STUDENT athlete" SSM is a good school if you just wanted to play hockey he should have just stayed there

[shotpassskate]

I don't like the rule, you can transfer from a private school without penalty if you can show a hardship ie.. parents lose a job and can not pay for school any more, or you move, or you are failing school. The bad thing about the rule is their are many jr's and sr's that don't get a chance to play varsity hockey, that are good enough to play varsity, but because (example what Edina did this year) the coach wants to go with a team full of underclassmen, that player has to go and play jr gold or quite. One other thing that is wrong with the issue, a player could move one or two blocks from Bloomington to Richfield, Edina, or Eden Prairie and play for that school without an issue.
In the case of Hurley from what I have been told it had nothing to do with money or grades or coaching. Both parents went to high school at Edina and one wanted the last child to play at Edina. He grow up in Eagan played for them until 8th grade where he went and played at Shattuck for a year, because he wanted to come to AHA as a 9th grader and play with his brother who was a senior last season. All his old siblings played all 4 years at AHA. I was told AHA signed the wavier to let him go in good standing. As for where he lives, I don't know, all I do know is his parents have a house in Eagan and a rental house in Edina.

[KrautBache]

the MSHSL would not do anything, just because his family can afford to own a house in two different cities does not give him a right to get around the rule. If he really wanted to go to edina he would have gone there freshman year.

Merely owning a house in two different cities does not get someone around the rule. The family has to actually move, discontinue their residence in the old district and live in the new district. If a family's bona fide location of residence has changed, I don't have a problem with a transfer. If they merely rented an address in a new district and still live in their former district, hopefully new district's athletic director or the MSHSL would take action.

Here is the rule from the MSHSL:

"Change of Residence

A change of residence is the actual physical relocation by the parents or guardians of a student with the intent to reside indefinitely at a new residence in Minnesota and terminate all occupancy of a previous residence. The change in residence must be bona fide, include other minor siblings and involve a transfer from one school district attendance area to another school district attendance area.

For purposes of eligibility determinations, the residence of a student shall be the bona fide location of the residence and must include occupancy by the students’ parents or guardians in the public school attendance area. Both parents, except as otherwise provided herein, must physically reside at the residence on a regular basis for the duration of the student’s enrollment."

[Bobby C]

Face it, if you have the will, the money, and a coach that will take you, the transfer rule can be completely circumvented. Happens every year. Look at Eagan. Rosemount kids go there last year by the family "moving" into an apartment. This year a goalie shows up from out of state, and the family (at least the mom and kid) "moves" into an apartment nearby. The rule says the family should have intent to "indefinitely" stay in the area, but my guess is those apartments will have new tennants when the season is over.

[KrautBache]

Face it, if you have the will, the money, and a coach that will take you, the transfer rule can be completely circumvented. Happens every year. Look at Eagan. Rosemount kids go there last year by the family "moving" into an apartment. This year a goalie shows up from out of state, and the family (at least the mom and kid) "moves" into an apartment nearby. The rule says the family should have intent to "indefinitely" stay in the area, but my guess is those apartments will have new tennants when the season is over.

I agree that the rule can be circumvented by actually moving, but there is a difference between "circumvention" and "violation." The "bona fide change of residence" standard should be enforced if the MSHSL wants the rule to have any meaning. In other words, renting an apartment that sits empty should not be enough. I'd be happy to see the rule strongly enforced, and to see individuals/coaches/teams that violate it suffer real consequences for the violation, whether it occurs in Edina, Duluth, Eagan or anywhere else.

[observer]

It started with Hopkins basketball getting their way with the MSHSL. To open enroll is allowed but it needs to be done for 9th grade. Most of the rest have been violations.

[MNHockeyFan]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

[HShockeywatcher]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

It is my understanding it is the school's responsibility to know. Schools, in general, do a good job of policing these policies I'd say. With the exception of high profile cases with administration involvement, schools don't let students who aren't supposed to play step on the field. If the student isn't supposed to go there, for funding reasons, they will try to get them out. Those are non-athletic related students. Hopefully the same is done with athletes.

Generally, for violations, the school is punished, not the student. Which is not very effective in a system where everyone makes the playoffs. For example, a few years back Hill Murray had a kicker who was ineligible. So, they had to forfeit the games he played, official record was 2-6, they got a terrible section seed and still made it to state.

With an issue of a student who isn't supposed to be at the school, my guess is an investigation would take place. If it were determined he shouldn't be there, he'd be sent where he's supposed to be, the school would forfeit those games, but they could still get a good seed because coaches vote in hockey.

[BodyShots]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

Don't quote me, but I believe the kid from California that moved to MN to spend some time with his dieing grandmother, was not allowed to play this year. Grandma died, he is staying to finish the school year. Chose family over returning to Cal, for high school sports.

[almostashappy]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

It is my understanding it is the school's responsibility to know. Schools, in general, do a good job of policing these policies I'd say. With the exception of high profile cases with administration involvement, schools don't let students who aren't supposed to play step on the field. If the student isn't supposed to go there, for funding reasons, they will try to get them out. Those are non-athletic related students. Hopefully the same is done with athletes.

Generally, for violations, the school is punished, not the student. Which is not very effective in a system where everyone makes the playoffs. For example, a few years back Hill Murray had a kicker who was ineligible. So, they had to forfeit the games he played, official record was 2-6, they got a terrible section seed and still made it to state.

With an issue of a student who isn't supposed to be at the school, my guess is an investigation would take place. If it were determined he shouldn't be there, he'd be sent where he's supposed to be, the school would forfeit those games, but they could still get a good seed because coaches vote in hockey.

It's not whether a kid is "supposed to be" at a certain school, but whether or not he or she needs to sit out from sports for a year while they attend that school. MSHSL doesn't investigate open enrollment issues.

And if this example is representative, then there is no teeth to enforcement. If they want to get tough, they could go NCAA route and ban a program from sectionals/State for a year or two. Which would really stink for the other kids on that team...so maybe a year-long suspension for the head coach would be more appropriate? (since he is in a position to decide whether a kid is on or off the team).

[observer]

It's unfair for some kids to transfer after 9th grade and play a season of JV, as the rule states, while others tippy toe around the violation and immediately are added to a varsity roster.

[karl(east)]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

In 04-05, the East AD incorrectly allowed two ineligible players to play at the start of the season. The MSHSL caught them and forced East to forfeit the seven games they had played to that date (some of which they had lost anyways). This was when the transfer rule only forced players to miss half a season, so the players sat out the rest of the half-season and were eligible to play after that.

So yes, it has been and can be enforced, though it doesn't happen often.

[HShockeywatcher]

Are there any instances of the MSHSL actually penalizing a player for violating the transfer rules? Or did they create these rules without the will and/or means to properly enforce them? And as citizens do we want quasi-governmental officials running around trying to determine where people are living?

It is my understanding it is the school's responsibility to know. Schools, in general, do a good job of policing these policies I'd say. With the exception of high profile cases with administration involvement, schools don't let students who aren't supposed to play step on the field. If the student isn't supposed to go there, for funding reasons, they will try to get them out. Those are non-athletic related students. Hopefully the same is done with athletes.

Generally, for violations, the school is punished, not the student. Which is not very effective in a system where everyone makes the playoffs. For example, a few years back Hill Murray had a kicker who was ineligible. So, they had to forfeit the games he played, official record was 2-6, they got a terrible section seed and still made it to state.

With an issue of a student who isn't supposed to be at the school, my guess is an investigation would take place. If it were determined he shouldn't be there, he'd be sent where he's supposed to be, the school would forfeit those games, but they could still get a good seed because coaches vote in hockey.

It's not whether a kid is "supposed to be" at a certain school, but whether or not he or she needs to sit out from sports for a year while they attend that school. MSHSL doesn't investigate open enrollment issues.

And if this example is representative, then there is no teeth to enforcement. If they want to get tough, they could go NCAA route and ban a program from sectionals/State for a year or two. Which would really stink for the other kids on that team...so maybe a year-long suspension for the head coach would be more appropriate? (since he is in a position to decide whether a kid is on or off the team).

You are correct. In a state where everyone makes the playoffs, forfeiting past games doesn't hurt anyone.

It's a tough situation because of what would happen to the other students who were following the rules.

[KrautBache]

You are correct. In a state where everyone makes the playoffs, forfeiting past games doesn't hurt anyone.

It would hurt if the "past games" were section playoff games! It would be a mess, but it would certainly hurt.