Future Minnesota recruits

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Post by Gopher Blog » Sun Mar 18, 2012 10:05 pm

mulefarm wrote:He had a year to get the situation figured out.
Lucia did not have a year to figure it out. You are factually wrong there. Gardiner committed to UW in the summer before his senior year... which wasn't long after he decided to make the change to play defense full time for his senior year.

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Post by mulefarm » Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:10 am

Gardiner begin playing D in the Gopher State Festival and throughout the USA select tryouts and gained immense interest at the tryouts at Plymouth. You are correct in he commintted to Wis in the middle of June before his senior yr. He was contacted by 5 WCHA and took unoffical visits to 3. He was never contacted by Lucia and if Lucia would have recruited him and got a commintment he would have had a full year to figure it out.

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Post by Gopher Blog » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:05 am

mulefarm wrote:Gardiner begin playing D in the Gopher State Festival and throughout the USA select tryouts and gained immense interest at the tryouts at Plymouth. You are correct in he commintted to Wis in the middle of June before his senior yr. He was contacted by 5 WCHA and took unoffical visits to 3. He was never contacted by Lucia and if Lucia would have recruited him and got a commintment he would have had a full year to figure it out.
You just restated what I already mentioned. There was very little time between his change and his commitment. Lucia's last D commit for 2008 was earlier that year. When Gardiner changed spots, it was too late to expect Lucia to make massive alterations. That's the risk you occasionally take with getting early commits.

There are a lot of good players out there. You start undermining some of your commits just because somebody else that is "pretty" comes along is a poor strategy. It only builds your reputation as being unreliable if you start shafting other guys in the process. Something that is not going to help you recruiting efforts in the long haul.

The names you threw out earlier (Youso and Walters) decommitted on their own. Walters was never guaranteed an entry date for college and he decommitted because he got upset that they wanted him to change his style. Youso decommitted because he saw he wasn't going to get much playing time in college at MN and he didn't want to sit a lot. They never had their offers pulled just so somebody else could join the team.

And the goalie you mention (Vienneau) didn't come because of academic problems.

I understand your mentality but a college coach can't look at strategy in such a short sighted fashion and expect to be successful in the long run. It doesn't take much of an opening for other programs to use "negative" recruiting tactics on a rival program. You start pulling things like you suggest here and it is going to do more harm than good in the long run.

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Post by mulefarm » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:22 pm

From what I read, Walters was told to go back and play one more yr of juniors, which he did, and I believe he made the all star team, and then he would come in Then in June Lucia changed his mind and told him he wanted him to go back to juniors, at that point Lucia did not honor his commintment and Walters then decommintted. My question about Gardiner is, why wouldn't he contact him to at least see his interest, and see if he would want to play a yr of jrs and then come in.

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Post by Sats81 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:12 pm

I highly doubt it (because of their extremely high skill-set to start with) but maybe Gardiner and McDonagh don't develop at the rate they did at Wisconsin being coached by Johnny Hill? Just throwing it out there.

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Post by auld_skool » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:15 pm

Sats81 wrote:I highly doubt it (because of their extremely high skill-set to start with) but maybe Gardiner and McDonagh don't develop at the rate they did at Wisconsin being coached by Johnny Hill? Just throwing it out there.
Exactly.

1) Recruit
2) Develop
3) Win

Not many shortcuts. If you fall short on step 2, hard to take step 3.

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Post by mulefarm » Mon Mar 19, 2012 2:37 pm

Sats81 wrote:I highly doubt it (because of their extremely high skill-set to start with) but maybe Gardiner and McDonagh don't develop at the rate they did at Wisconsin being coached by Johnny Hill? Just throwing it out there.
100% correct!

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Post by Irish » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:28 pm

Tigers33 wrote:Got our asses handed to us. Wow! Are you an unbelievable fair weather fan or what? The Gophers won the league championship! Remember that?

On the season the Gophers were 3-2 vs. North Dakota. I distinctively remember a 6-2 beating in North Dakota. Remember? And we arguably outplayed them up there on Friday night too.

Lets go back to Friday. We looked like the best team in the country through 30-35 minutes of hockey. Than we looked like the worst team. That is not on coaching!!! 90 percent on the 19 players that touched the ice, and the other 10 percent on the coaches. However, if you are going to blame the coaches than you should blame Guentzel the most. Those defenseman looked awful the 3rd period.

Next years top line might look like Haula - Rau - Budish
Second line could be Condon - Warning - Ambroz
They do lose a lot of senior forwards, but return all defenseman plus Reilly and Skjei. Reilly should be legit.
** I would say Bjugstad has a 90 percent chance to leave. Sounds like from sources that he is having a blast right now with his teammates. Could be a hobey baker finalist if he stuck around. I think goaltending issues will have a lot to do with those that choose to leave.
Any which way........... My point is Hak did what he did and the team responded. We all know Minnesota has more talent than UND this year. Sure there were some fluke goals. Hak flipped the switch and the team responded. You don't see that at Minnesota. You're right! We did win the WCHA this year which makes losing Friday hurt even more. A good team doesn't lose a lead like that. Worse yet lose a lead like that and give up six straight goals.

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Post by Tigers33 » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:48 pm

More talent?

Arguable...Knight - Kristo - Brock are just as good as Bjugstad - Rau - Budish. I would imagine Hansen and Haula are probably better than their 2nd line and our 4th line is better cause they have injury issues.

As for the defensman, Blood and Forbort are two pretty good defenseman. Ours are still fairly young. Schmitt - very good offensively but not so sure defensively. Marshall, Schmitt, Alt, Parenteau, and Holl are all still young. Forbort, Blood, and MacWilliam give them some veteran leadership on the blue line. forbort is only a sophmore, but we all know he is a future NHL player.

Goalies - close to even
Defenseman - No Dak
Forwards - Gophers (cause of depth)

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Post by Gopher Blog » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:07 pm

Gophers are deeper this year. No doubt about that. I'd argue that the goalie/defense unit is better for MN as well.

Dell isn't as good as Patterson has been this year. Patterson was 1st team WCHA and Dell didn't garner anything. Yes, anything can happen in one game situation but over the course of the year, Patterson was clearly better. Look at their respective GAA, Save % and win percentage this year in the WCHA. It is a landslide in Patterson's favor.

Defensively, the Gophers were the more sound defensive team this year. Their GAA was a half a goal a game better than UND in the WCHA this year. Yes, the Gophs had some games where there were some ugly breakdowns. They aren't perfect. But I'd imagine that happened at times for UND as well. Your defense is a team effort. Not a case of "their top D man is better than our top D man" one on one comparison.

Nate Schmidt was a +24 on the year. To say he hasn't been a good all around player this season is a head scratcher.

Let's be honest, if the Gophers hadn't had a very bad 3rd period last Friday, we wouldn't even be having this discussion. The Gophs were definitely better throughout the year (and head to head with UND this season). But people remember a 3rd period meltdown and all of a sudden all the other realities of the season seem to get misplaced.

I really hope there is a rematch at the X this weekend. I think the Gopher players do too. There is nothing better than getting a second chance at somebody like that. You want to erase that bad taste in your mouth from such a game and they have a chance at that. The Gophers will definitely have something to prove if they face each other on Sunday.

Still have to get by a solid BU club though. That's not a gimme. I think the Gophers should win but NCAA games can be pretty tough to gauge at times.

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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:00 am

Gopher Blog, I agree 100% with everything you say above. Excellent analysis!

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Post by Murray Chadwick » Sat Mar 24, 2012 11:24 pm

[
The main adjustment the Gophers have made in the last year or so is they have focused recruiting more on smaller forwards with elite skill. The types of players that have the kind of skill that could get to the NHL some day but maybe not the prototypical size to leave college after a year or two. Cammarata, Guertler, Lettieri, Kloos, Rau, and a few others are very skilled kids but don't have the type of physical size that the pro teams find ideal.
While I agree with your take on this , I also think that the Gophers are simply taking advantage of the players that are playing the best. If that means six foot snipers that are here for one year and move on to the next level then so be it. But it just so happens that all these 5 foot nothing difference makers are all coming up around the same time (Rau, Kloos, Cammaratta). I'm not sure that this will be the norm from here on out, but may be the exception now....

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Post by Gopher Blog » Sun Mar 25, 2012 12:33 am

The comments I have heard from Lucia on occasion in the last year is that their process has indeed adjusted a little more toward players that aren't necessarily optimal NHL prospects. It's more about finding those impact guys that are more likely to do damage and stay around through their junior or senior year.

No doubt their recruiting will still include players (a la Fasching) that still fit the bill for prototypical NHL size guy (or gritty bigger style player) but I think they have seen how effective BC has been with this type of tactic and adjusted accordingly.

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Post by MrBoDangles » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:44 am

Gopher Blog wrote:The comments I have heard from Lucia on occasion in the last year is that their process has indeed adjusted a little more toward players that aren't necessarily optimal NHL prospects. It's more about finding those impact guys that are more likely to do damage and stay around through their junior or senior year.

No doubt their recruiting will still include players (a la Fasching) that still fit the bill for prototypical NHL size guy (or gritty bigger style player) but I think they have seen how effective BC has been with this type of tactic and adjusted accordingly.
Very scary :shock: ....... if this is going to be the trend....? Canadian Major Jrs will be the route of the NHL body-type and D-1 will be for the Scrappy Doo's.


:idea:

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Minny D

Post by blueblood » Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:22 am

Unless there is an injury to one of the Gopher defenseman, I don't see a change in the gopher d corps next year.

80 games of Canadian tier 2 jrs. isnt even close to playing the level of competition in the wcha that holl and helgy have played the last 2 seasons.

Lucia has made some minor adjustments with his fwd lines over the years, like getting miller into the lineup, but he rarely changes the defenseman. Thompson and student barely played this season. And the defenseman from wayzata a few years ago played 4 years. He was brutal, but he didn't get hurt and kept playing despite getting beat and outmuscled all of the time.

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Post by Tigers33 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:48 am

A couple things about the defenseman...Reilly will play! Guaranteed. I also think skjei will play!

I think Holl is in big trouble. He looks like the first on the chopping block. He was in the doghouse last season, and personally I expected more from him this season. The other thing is Nate Schmitt is a free agent, correct? Meaning he wasnt drafted. It wouldnt surprise me to see someone wanna jump on him. He has defnitely made the biggest strides from one season to this one. He also runs the power play, and has a cannon of a shot.

The only problem is I only see two tough guys in that group...Helgy and Pareteau. I hope Parenteau doesnt end up being the odd guy out. FYI - eight current defenseman, plus two coming in, something will happen.

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Post by Gopher Blog » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:54 am

MrBoDangles wrote:Very scary :shock: ....... if this is going to be the trend....? Canadian Major Jrs will be the route of the NHL body-type and D-1 will be for the Scrappy Doo's.
Well, I didn't say they would entirely ignore that type. As I mentioned, it's not as if Fasching is a 5'8" waterbug. But I do think it is wise to balance things out a bit. Let's face it, a decent part of the reason the Gophers had their slide (aside from the poison named Hill) is because they had a number of departures that disrupted matters.

I don't think some tweaks are going to lead to massive changes in where players go. No more than things already are.

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Post by DmanDad1980 » Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:59 am

Tigers33 wrote:A couple things about the defenseman...Reilly will play! Guaranteed. I also think skjei will play!
I think Holl is in big trouble. He looks like the first on the chopping block. He was in the doghouse last season, and personally I expected more from him this season. The other thing is Nate Schmitt is a free agent, correct? Meaning he wasnt drafted. It wouldnt surprise me to see someone wanna jump on him. He has defnitely made the biggest strides from one season to this one. He also runs the power play, and has a cannon of a shot.

The only problem is I only see two tough guys in that group...Helgy and Pareteau. I hope Parenteau doesnt end up being the odd guy out. FYI - eight current defenseman, plus two coming in, something will happen.
I will have to agree with you on your Holl take...
This will not be agreed to by many, but little Ben Marshall should not be playing as much either... He had trouble again yesterday with the puck, and in front of the net on the 2nd goal... He was manhandled, and the result was a goal...
In looking at the 2012 NHL Draft, it looks like the experts are putting Brady Skjei around the #20 position in the first round... Not taking anything from Reilly, who sounds like an excellent Dman prospect, but it sounds like Skjei is your cant miss kid coming in...

Puck control, speed, and stay out of the box... The three ingredients for a Gopher Frozen Four visit...
Go Gophers!

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Post by Gopher Blog » Sun Mar 25, 2012 11:04 am

It's tough to say on the defense. My personal feeling is it may be best to move Marshall up to forward for a season if the defensive group all remains.

I have little doubt Skjei and Reilly will be in the lineup most nights.

There is no doubt Student and Thompson are going to find playing time difficult. I won't be shocked if a kid like Thompson sees the depth chart and decides he may be better off transferring.

It is a guess but I have the feeling Schmidt will be around for next season.

I think Holl is very much in danger of reduced playing time due to the two new guys (if everybody stays).

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Post by Tigers33 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 7:54 am

I agree with everything everyone is saying, but I find it difficult to figure out D pairings with everyone.

I really need to tip my hat off to Helgy and Holl. As much as we all agree about Holl, keep in mind he is generally put out against the other team's top line.

possible D pairings
Helgy Holl
Alt Reilly
Schmitt Skjei

Any of these three could leave though...Helgy, Alt, and Schmitt. I think Schmitt is most likely because he wasnt drafted. Its tough for a kid that wasnt drafted to turn down an offer. Take a look at Stu Bickel. He was a free agent and signed after his first year I think.

Boston College and Gophers will be interesting. BC is on fire this season.

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Post by Tigers33 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:28 am

Anybody take a look at BC's lineup? They have 9 forwards that are "5 foot nothing" and had in a couple defenseman. Not to mention two forwards list themselves at 6'0, which usually means they are 5'11

This is exactly what Lucia is trying to do with his future recruits. How has worked for Boston College?

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Post by Sats81 » Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:54 am

Skeji will play next year. No doubt about that. So will Reilly. I really like Helegeson. Good solid d-man. Got some nasty in him too. Parentau has really earned his spot and has continually got better as the season has progressed. Like him a lot. Student and Thompson will never play. Holl struggles and we should have taken his d-partner in HS Andrew Prochno instead. Sure I'll get some flak for that, lol. Marshall is really bad in his own zone. He is small and weak. Reminds me a lot of Wehers and Ness.

I really hope Schmitty sticks around as it has been very cool to see him grow into the type of player I knew he could be. Alt is a solid player too and covers Marshalls ass on a lot of mistakes he makes. I think Holl and Marshall are the ones watching from the press box next year if everyone sticks around. Brady Skeji is a complete stud and if you haven't seen him play stay tuned!

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Post by mulefarm » Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:06 pm

Why would Lucia carry 10 D? If this years D is good enough to get to the Frozen 4 and possibly a National Championship, do you think Lucia would sit one of those players? How is this fair to the players, this would send a bad message to future recriuts about loyalty. Also NHL teams and agents would not be happy with their drafted players sitting in press box. Will be interesting on how this is handled?

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Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:12 pm

Sats81 wrote:I think Holl and Marshall are the ones watching from the press box next year if everyone sticks around.
I think Holl more so than Marshall, who does make freshman mistakes but will often make up for them offensively. He scored a big goal yesterday to get the Gophers on the board. I thought Holl struggled throughout the game and he did take two penalties in the 3rd period when UND was trying to mount another comeback.

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Post by Gopher Blog » Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:34 pm

mulefarm wrote:Why would Lucia carry 10 D? If this years D is good enough to get to the Frozen 4 and possibly a National Championship, do you think Lucia would sit one of those players? How is this fair to the players, this would send a bad message to future recriuts about loyalty. Also NHL teams and agents would not be happy with their drafted players sitting in press box. Will be interesting on how this is handled?
First, a couple of those D men are low/no scholarship guys (Thompson, Student, and Parenteau) and realistically don't have a ton of future opportunities for pro hockey. Lower level pro or European hockey at best.

Second, what would it have to do with loyalty? Any recruit/player that has any desire to make it in the pros knows it is a major competition for playing time and you have to raise your performance in order to see the ice. These guys aren't a bunch of naive mite hockey players. You put your best lineup out there and these guys know they have to work hard to maintain their opportunities. It's not just given to you simply because you had it before. You still have to earn it every year.

It won't shock me if they lose at least one guy on defense this off-season anyway. Frankly, the only returning D man I wouldn't want to lose this off-season is Nate Schmidt as I think he could be an all-American next year. That move he put on Forbort yesterday that lead to the 3rd Gopher goal was pretty sweet.

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