NHL Central Scoutings N. American rankings for 2012 draft

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:12 am

Final Draft rankings for the upcoming draft. Here are the MN/Shattuck kids. Sorry if I missed anybody but I think that's all of them:

19 SKJEI, BRADY
53 STEPAN, ZACHARY
82 JOHNSON, ADAM
87 MICHAELSON, AJ
105 MONTGOMERY, JACOB
106 DRAEGER, JOHN
116 BLUEGER, THEODORE
130 MERCHANT, WILL
147 BISCHOFF, JAKE
173 KLOOS, JUSTIN
187 BESSE, GRANT
188 NANNE, LOUIS
191 OPPERMAN, GRANT
203 DICKMAN, JAY
206 WOLFE, SAM
207 MAY, ELI

EDIT. Missed the goalies. Three MN kids in the top 35 goalies. Collin Olson at #21, Alex Lyon at #23, and Charlie Lindgren at #30.

Vapor · Post by **Vapor** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:02 pm

I'm a bit surprised by these rankings. Thought Besse, Bischoff and Dickman would be higher.

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:19 pm

I did miss Cody Corbett but he is out in the WHL and players in Major Jr. may as well be on another planet as far as I am concerned.

DubCHAGuy · Post by **DubCHAGuy** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:49 pm

149 Dom Toninato, Duluth East

Gopher Blog · Post by **Gopher Blog** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:20 pm

Thanks DubCHAGuy. I did it fast. I knew I was bound to miss somebody.

observer · Post by **observer** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:13 pm

73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton

gopherpuck516 · Post by **gopherpuck516** » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:02 pm

There's quite a few more players with MN ties on this list than last year. There doesn't seem to be a lot of 1st round names and not that this is the end-all be-all list of kids who will get drafted, but it should be a strong showing of MN kids getting drafted in June.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:40 am

observer wrote:73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton

Any opinions on if these players moved up in the rankings by going to the WHL..?

ticktacktonka · Post by **ticktacktonka** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:13 am

These are the North American rankings and do not account for the Europeans. You will probably see that those Minnesota kids ranked under the 170 mark will have a hard time to make the final draft as the Europeans will take at least 30 spots.

gopherpuck516 · Post by **gopherpuck516** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:41 am

ticktacktonka wrote:These are the North American rankings and do not account for the Europeans. You will probably see that those Minnesota kids ranked under the 170 mark will have a hard time to make the final draft as the Europeans will take at least 30 spots.

That's true, but there may be some teams that like a player more than others and decide to draft them even though they're ranked lower or even unranked. Nick Seeler comes to mind from last year. I don't remember seeing his name on the list and he ended up being drafted by the Wild.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:54 am

MrBoDangles wrote:
observer wrote:73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton
Any opinions on if these players moved up in the rankings by going to the WHL..?

Anybody?

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:38 am

observer wrote:
73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton

BoDangles wrote:
Any opinions on if these players moved up in the rankings by going to the WHL..?

I'll say no question. I've heard Logan Nelson has developed into a very solid player. Would development have been the same at Rogers? Would he have been a Mr. Hockey finalist?

I think you can say the same about Cody Corbett. He's now ranked ahead of Mr. Hockey and the two solid D from Eagan.

What's interesting about this discussion is that they're not different kids and certainly could have developed into similar players without going to the WHL. But, it does say Central Scouting favors kids playing in the CHL and places them above potentially better players not playing in the CHL.

The Exiled One · Post by **The Exiled One** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:49 am

observer wrote:
observer wrote:
73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton

BoDangles wrote:
Any opinions on if these players moved up in the rankings by going to the WHL..?
I'll say no question. I've heard Logan Nelson has developed into a very solid player. Would development have been the same at Rogers? Would he have been a Mr. Hockey finalist?

I think you can say the same about Cody Corbett. He's now ranked ahead of Mr. Hockey and the two solid D from Eagan.

What's interesting about this discussion is that they're not different kids and certainly could have developed into similar players without going to the WHL. But, it does say Central Scouting favors kids playing in the CHL and places them above potentially better players not playing in the CHL.

More development than HS hockey, yes, but more than if they played in the USHL? Hard to say.

The biggest reason for the bump in rankings is that it's easier to judge them in the WHL. It's difficult to rank them high after only seeing them play against HS teams.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:43 am

The Exiled One wrote:
observer wrote:
observer wrote:
73 Logan Nelson, Rogers, MN WHL Victoria
117 Cody Corbett, Stillwater, MN WHL Edmonton

BoDangles wrote:
Any opinions on if these players moved up in the rankings by going to the WHL..?
I'll say no question. I've heard Logan Nelson has developed into a very solid player. Would development have been the same at Rogers? Would he have been a Mr. Hockey finalist?

I think you can say the same about Cody Corbett. He's now ranked ahead of Mr. Hockey and the two solid D from Eagan.

What's interesting about this discussion is that they're not different kids and certainly could have developed into similar players without going to the WHL. But, it does say Central Scouting favors kids playing in the CHL and places them above potentially better players not playing in the CHL.
More development than HS hockey, yes, but more than if they played in the USHL? Hard to say.

The biggest reason for the bump in rankings is that it's easier to judge them in the WHL. It's difficult to rank them high after only seeing them play against HS teams.

I'm having a hard time seeing these guys putting up these same numbers in the USHL.. Is there really a lack of respect for the USHL during the draft?

Keegan Iverson was the third leading scorer in WHL Portland's camp last Summer. The Summer after his 8th grade year. Was he in the top three at Breck?

I sure hope you're wrong, Observer.

Any other views?

observer · Post by **observer** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:02 pm

Wrong about what?

It's Canada's baseball and apple pie. The three leagues of the CHL (WHL, OHL & QMJHL) are the primary path for Canadians to the NHL. Canada doesn't want to be overtaken and so there is some protectionism going on. I'm saying there are several players equal in skill and potential upside to a lot of the Canadians on this list. But, Canada Hockey owns the sport and the current primary development path so they'll tout those players and that path. I don't know Cody Corbett but I'll bet he's not the best draft age Minnesota defenseman after Skjei. But, based on Central Scouting he is the best Minnesotan in the CHL hence the potential inflated ranking.

MrBoDangles · Post by **MrBoDangles** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:12 pm

observer wrote:Wrong about what?

It's Canada's baseball and apple pie. The three leagues of the CHL (WHL, OHL & QMJHL) are the primary path for Canadians to the NHL. Canada doesn't want to be overtaken and so there is some protectionism going on. I'm saying there are several players equal in skill and potential upside to a lot of the Canadians on this list. But, Canada Hockey owns the sport and the current primary development path so they'll tout those players and that path. I don't know Cody Corbett but I'll bet he's not the best draft age Minnesota defenseman after Skjei. But, based on Central Scouting he is the best Minnesotan in the CHL hence the potential inflated ranking.

There's a huge problem then.

That's the response I was looking for. Thanks!

xy · Post by xy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:45 pm

I am not trying to disparage the kid, and I understand the valid reasons why he'll be playing for the Gophers - hard worker who can skate fairly well and who'll accept his role, and who won't cost any scholarship money - but honestly, how do you look at a system that ranks Louie Nanne and Grant Besse as basically equivalent prospects and not have serious questions about its credibility? You'd like to think the people who work for Central Scouting take their jobs seriously enough to not do this based on his name (and when you think about it, why would they owe his grandpa any favors?), but you really do have to wonder.

Neuuman · Post by **Neuuman** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 6:49 pm

xy wrote:I am not trying to disparage the kid, and I understand the valid reasons why he'll be playing for the Gophers - hard worker who can skate fairly well and who'll accept his role, and who won't cost any scholarship money - but honestly, how do you look at a system that ranks Louie Nanne and Grant Besse as basically equivalent prospects and not have serious questions about its credibility? You'd like to think the people who work for Central Scouting take their jobs seriously enough to not do this based on his name (and when you think about it, why would they owe his grandpa any favors?), but you really do have to wonder.

I think most would agree (with the possible exception of NHL Central Scouting scouts) - NHL Central scouting is kind of a joke. With the proliferation of available video, and the competitive nature of scouting in general, I would be willing to bet that most NHL teams have enough scouts to assess all the players they want to assess, and use the NHL list just to make sure they didn't forget to look at someone. But I agree, one of the players listed shortly after Besse kind of makes you shake your head. Last year Kyle Rau was ranked in the 170's and ended up being drafted in the 3rd round. Based on the year he had, I wouldn't put too much stock in NHL Central Scouting. IMHO

WCHBlog · Post by **WCHBlog** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:24 pm

observer wrote:Wrong about what?

It's Canada's baseball and apple pie. The three leagues of the CHL (WHL, OHL & QMJHL) are the primary path for Canadians to the NHL. Canada doesn't want to be overtaken and so there is some protectionism going on. I'm saying there are several players equal in skill and potential upside to a lot of the Canadians on this list. But, Canada Hockey owns the sport and the current primary development path so they'll tout those players and that path. I don't know Cody Corbett but I'll bet he's not the best draft age Minnesota defenseman after Skjei. But, based on Central Scouting he is the best Minnesotan in the CHL hence the potential inflated ranking.

Funny that Central Scouting wasn't like that two years ago when there were actually good players that played high school hockey.

Corbett still played Elite League this year and was way better than the Eagan kids.

keepyourheadup · Post by **keepyourheadup** » Tue Apr 10, 2012 9:00 pm

WAY better is a bit of a stretch. Cody had several dominating performances but had some shaky ones as well. Was he the top defensemen in the league? One of them for sure but in the fall I think Gross was the best one and Schurhamer was right there with him as well.

ticktacktonka · Post by **ticktacktonka** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:14 am

xy--I think your are missing the point of the NHL draft. It is all about the big "P"--potential at the next level. I have not seen Besse play in person but the word out there is that he is a bit lazy and a one way player. Again, heresay..but if the NHL is looking at potential for these kids out 5-6 years the big question is will Besse be able to continue his scoring expertise when he moves to the next level--When goalies are even more talented, Defensemen are 6" plus and will actually cover him when he floats around waiting for the pass. The other player you mentioned might not have as many points but what I see when I watch him is a hard worker who plays both ends of the ice. There is probably a lot more development and upside to that type of player--IMHO. You also have to compare apples to apples, would Besse have had all his stats if he had played in the Lake Conference like the latter?

northwoods oldtimer · Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:25 am

Where does the Baskin kid from Minnetonka rank? I thought he would be on this list of MN players.

mngopherfan · Post by **mngopherfan** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:25 am

northwoods oldtimer wrote:Where does the Baskin kid from Minnetonka rank? I thought he would be on this list of MN players.

he had NHL scouts at a bunch of games, but i think he lacks the fire they are looking for. Good one game and disappears the next...

auld_skool · Post by **auld_skool** » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:01 pm

The paths these kids want to take are way different. In Canada, when they hit 21 the next step is some level of pro hockey. Here the next step for most of them is college. Different.

I've heard that for US athletes it's better to not be drafted at all than to go in the later rounds so that they can be free agents and be able to deal with more than one team. I don't know if that's true, but there was quite a bit of discussion about it by the commentators during the NCAA playoffs.

Does Central Scouting misjudge great players? See Pavel Datsyuk. Undrafted in 96 and 97. Went 171st in 98.

xy · Post by xy » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:47 pm

ticktacktonka wrote:xy--I think your are missing the point of the NHL draft. It is all about the big "P"--potential at the next level.

Actually, that is exactly what I had in mind. Besse is obviously not a finished product or a sure thing, and I can certainly see the case for where he's rated. But he has finishing skills of the kind almost never seen in Minnesota high school hockey; you can certainly see using a draft choice on him and hoping those skills translate to higher levels. My point was more about the other player mentioned, and whether you can put much stock in a system that ranks him that highly . . . again, I'm not trying to disparage him, and I hope he plays great for the Gophers, but apart from his name what distinguishes him from literally hundreds of other players who'll never make that list or even get drafted? He's listed at 5'10", 162, so it's not size. It's obviously not scoring; he's apparently predominantly a checker in high school, and had only 27 points and 12 assists all year (and those totals may be helped by creative bookkeeping; late in the year the Hockey Hub suddenly credited him with three assists against Lakeville South in December, none of which any of the people I watched that game with remember). The best-case scenario for him on the pro level is a hard-working checking forward; the Canadian junior leagues are chock full of guys who'd kill to fill that role and could do it as well as he could. You can sign those guys as free agents and use draft picks on guys like Besse who may develop skills allowing them to fill a scoring role as a top-six forward, especially since the draft is only seven rounds. You'd expect the Central Scouting rankings to reflect that reality.

And as to the schedule Besse played, I think the state tournament gave some idea of what he can do against teams a little better than what you see in the North Suburban or whatever conference it was that Benilde just left.