Will Edina's youth domination continue into High School?

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Napalm187
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Will Edina's youth domination continue into High School?

Post by Napalm187 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:31 am

As we all know, Edina has a great five year window of kids from 1996 age birth year kids to the 2000's squirt age kids last year that were undefeated. We all know they have been racking up the state titles in Pee Wee's and at the Bantam level this year. My question centers around whether they will be able to sustain that at the high school level amidst defections and other factors. In short, I would think it would be a dissapointment if they only win 1 or 2 HS titles over the next 5-7 years, instead of creating another dynasty like they once had in the late 70's and early 80's or like Jefferson did in the 90's. With the rumors of Jack Walker leaving after his freshman year (he could have had a Mike Crowley-esque HS career and he was the engine on those great youth teams) and with the Jungels going to BSM (which could create a ripple effect with those 2000's) does Edina still have enough depth to create another dynasty? Or does these losses, coupled with others in the future weaken their chances significantly? Edina can replace talent better than any other program in the state, but these are significant losses. But if any program loses their best 2-3 players at each age level...no matter how much depth you have, it is a simple case of plug in the next guy. Thoughts??

blueblood
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Edinasty

Post by blueblood » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:12 pm

There are only 18 varsity skaters and 2 goalies on any hockey team.

With only 2 seniors on this years edition of the Hornets and the possible loss of Louie Nanne, it's going to be hard to make the Edina varsity team next year.

If I was a high school coach of a private metro team (I'm not), and there were kids interested in playing for me, I would tell them their chances of making Edina varsity are minimal next season. That fact might influence some to not attend Edina HS and play for the Hornets.

The Edina staff is not afraid to cut seniors with experience, so there may end of being more than 2 to 3 spots currently projected for next season, but that is an unknown.

Edina, unlike other teams, is so deep, they can afford to lose a few players and still be considered the favorites in their section, as they will be next season.

green4
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Post by green4 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:40 pm

i woudn't just say 95's to 2000's are good they got the 94's and 95's that were on varsity this last year. Edina always seems to field a good team because there that deep. Growing up in Edina sure a couple kids go to BSM but many will take a year on JV because of the tradition at edina

bafata88
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Post by bafata88 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 pm

Oh this one is easy! No, Edina will never have a dynasty at the high school level as long as Giles is the coach. He will find a way to botch it up no matter how much talent he has; and he always has a lot to draw from. He should have won at least 4 or 5 state titles by now.

Roy01
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Post by Roy01 » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:21 pm

I would think the youth in the Burnsville program could give them some good competition for the next few years. It'll be interesting to see how it turns out.

57special
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Post by 57special » Tue Apr 17, 2012 10:39 pm

Burnsville Squirts and Peewees are light years behind Edina's (or Tonka, EP, CC, Prior Lake).

Btw, Jack Walker's younger brother might be better than him in two or three years!

nobama
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Post by nobama » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:12 am

is he still drinking out of a juice box. :roll:

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:55 am

Bafata -

Give it up! You got cut. No biggie. I am sure your family still likes you.

Let me ask you folks this. Who has had the most talent in the last five years from any 1 high school program? Edina is not the one that immediately comes to mind. And in those last 5 years how many times as Giles been to state?

Giles is without a doubt one of the most genuine indivuals within high school hockey. And he has put together some pretty nice teams at the same time. Didnt they lose 3-2 to Benilde? I am sure according to Bafata it was all Giles fault. Right Bafata?

bafata88
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Post by bafata88 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:20 am

Tigers33 wrote:Bafata -

Give it up! You got cut. No biggie. I am sure your family still likes you.

Let me ask you folks this. Who has had the most talent in the last five years from any 1 high school program? Edina is not the one that immediately comes to mind. And in those last 5 years how many times as Giles been to state?

Giles is without a doubt one of the most genuine indivuals within high school hockey. And he has put together some pretty nice teams at the same time. Didnt they lose 3-2 to Benilde? I am sure according to Bafata it was all Giles fault. Right Bafata?
I give Giles credit when credit is due. He knows hockey [obviously]; he knows how to coach a team on the ice. And they had alot of success this year even though they were really young. Tiger, you must not be from Edina and/or you must never have heard the complaints from the people on the inside. Or you are one of his buddies whose kid gets the special treatment. My criticism extends to the general culture of Minnesota high school hockey and Giles is one to perpetuate this: the players and their families are required to give everything to to the hockey team, but there is no loyalty given back. What he did to this year's senior class is dead wrong. And it made his team weaker. And sorry, from top to bottom, the guy gets more talent and depth each year than pretty much every school.

deacon64
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Post by deacon64 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:34 am

No, everyone knows they are 'cake eaters' - even hollywood know this - lol

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:37 am

I disagree 110 percent. Parents will always complain, hearts will always get broken, dreams will always get shattered. Especially in Edina. I heard Edina had 60 plus kids tryout. Is that about right?

I would say he did pretty well. Especially for how young they were. Keep in mind this senuor class has not been all that productive. Correct?

So which players shouldnt have been there? Malmquist, he was one of their best. Nanne, I was very impressed with him. Walker, gonna be a stud.

Please enlighten us.

BlueLineSpecial
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Post by BlueLineSpecial » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:27 am

Titles are hard to come by, regardless of the talent said team possesses. You're always going to get a defection or two to a private school, and a defection here or there to Juniors. There are a lot of very recent examples of the 'most talented team' not winning a title. If Edina wins one title every five years, and are competitive in the other years, I think most everyone would take that.

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:01 pm

Bafata:

The "cut senior" saga has played out many times. Have you read "Blades of Glory" about Saterdalen? If memory serves, the parent of the kid in question was once cut himself by Ikola. There are hundreds of stories like this.

Every time there is a vocal faction that says it is wrong or (even worse) "just plain wrong" or (in Vitale-speak) "flat-out wrong" to cut a (seemingly) qualified senior in favor or a younger player.

Remember this - the experienced coaches, who actually have to live with their decisions - and don't feel good about it - often take the opposite approach. Re-read that since it is a new concept to you.

Cut the seniors right away and you won't have to deal with them all year. No problem with moving them down to 4th line if you want to play someone else, you don't have them to move around. Giles isn't the first to figure this out.

Given that so many adopt the same approach, is it just possible that maybe guys like Giles (or Ikola or Saterdalen) do know what they are doing? We've never been in their shoes, so maybe we should at least consider the possibility that they aren't total idiots and are employing a method to their madness.

Giles saw his team, assessed the players, and made a decision to jettison older players in favor of very young ones that he thought could perform even better four months out. It is not a decision without risk. He was ultimately going to be the target of intense criticism if it didn't work out.

Steve Fischer did essentially the same thing, benching future NBA player Eric Riley in order to get all of the Fab Five in the starting lineup. A friend of mine coached one of the greatest HS basketball teams in the last decade and the run started when the class of 2004 entered 10th grade and he pushed a whole wave of older players out to pasture.

Is this fair?

I'm to a point in my life where I don't even consider what is fair. It depends who you ask. I wonder what is right and wrong and when there is grey in the middle I try to figure out why things are the way they are.

Simply saying Giles is bad, which you often do in your rants, does not explain why he cut many seemingly qualified seniors. Sorry.
Be kind. Rewind.

Napalm187
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Post by Napalm187 » Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:48 pm

Bafata...we know your opinion about Giles and it is duly noted...I don't want to turn this into Giles bashing because Karl will lock it up!

I've always been very surprised at all the Giles vitriol in Edina and it is definitely not some silent minority. That kind of goes to the heart of the question that I'm asking if he could make a dynastic run, or maybe like Greg Trebil at AHA, fall short of expectations with all the talent on hand. Note on Trebil, after they won in '05, their teams in 06 (beat Shattuck that year) and in 07 were even better...but they got beat in section final and semi's because of fluky wins (outshooting teams 49-16). That happens, and I'm sure Giles supporters could point out the same thing for him. $h** happens. Not always the most talented team wins as most sports championships prove...one of the exceptions is this years Kentucky b-ball team and BC at NCAA hockey. But you gotta win a few, which Trebil did and Giles has. Which usually gets you into the "lifetime coach" senior emeritus status. Which Giles deserves. He deserves criticism, but to say he should be gone is ridiculous. Who should be coach? There are always going to be boo-birds, no matter what or how you do it. I think Giles is comparable to Don Lucia in a lot of ways. Very good coaches, but not great ones. We saw with Lucia (up until this past resurgent year) of calls for his head, with the last 3-4 years of struggle and the 02 & 03 titles fading into the distance...and those calls were warranted...and then Guentzel helped save his butt. Don't believe it, ask any former Gopher! Giles has earned a free pass for a few years, but like I said if he doesn't win multiple titles with these 96-2000's (the best 5 year window that they might ever have in their long, distinguished history, but besides KB, the 98's are the weakest link in those years) then bloodlust will be cursing throughout the corridors of Interlachen and the Edina CC.

Couple of responses to the posters, I know how great the younger Walker is, but with the oldest boy ditching out on his senior yr. the week of tryouts and the crowley/finnegan clone leaving after his freshman year...is the writing on the wall enough to see that the youngest won't be spending too much time there either?

I know a lot of the inside nitty-gritty and I can tell you that Giles biggest worry is losing some of these up and coming kids. He is working harder than ever before to recruit kids to stay...something he has never cared about doing before. One of his biggest problems is one of his associations own coaches, who he is convinced is recruiting against him. You all can figure it out. That coach is one of the many in Edina (who for the life of me I can't figure out why, even though I'm bemused by it) who thinks Giles is a bad coach. That he doesn't develop individual skills and saps creativity. Even though the performances of Hurley and Malmquist this year would say otherwise.

From their pee wee a title in 2010, they've already lost 2 of their 3 best players in Walker and Jungels. And from the 2011 team they could sure lose their best player, #23, who goes to a private school (OLG) and who Pauly is recruiting the heck outta. Why do you think the Bantam A coach has his dad as ass't coach which he has been machivellian in terms of recruiting him to stay for the past 5 years? Also for his school, but mostly for his boy #8/#18 too... his boy needs him. Like Robin to Batman.

Then you get into all the 2000's who Pauly and others might have a headway into...I'm saying there will be a lot going on in terms of the crazy hockey capital of MN. It will be fun to see how everything shakes out over the next 5-7 years and how much drama hockey can create in this wisteria lane of MN!

icehornet
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Post by icehornet » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:38 pm

Napalm187 wrote:Bafata...we know your opinion about Giles and it is duly noted...I don't want to turn this into Giles bashing because Karl will lock it up!

I've always been very surprised at all the Giles vitriol in Edina and it is definitely not some silent minority. That kind of goes to the heart of the question that I'm asking if he could make a dynastic run, or maybe like Greg Trebil at AHA, fall short of expectations with all the talent on hand. Note on Trebil, after they won in '05, their teams in 06 (beat Shattuck that year) and in 07 were even better...but they got beat in section final and semi's because of fluky wins (outshooting teams 49-16). That happens, and I'm sure Giles supporters could point out the same thing for him. $h** happens. Not always the most talented team wins as most sports championships prove...one of the exceptions is this years Kentucky b-ball team and BC at NCAA hockey. But you gotta win a few, which Trebil did and Giles has. Which usually gets you into the "lifetime coach" senior emeritus status. Which Giles deserves. He deserves criticism, but to say he should be gone is ridiculous. Who should be coach? There are always going to be boo-birds, no matter what or how you do it. I think Giles is comparable to Don Lucia in a lot of ways. Very good coaches, but not great ones. We saw with Lucia (up until this past resurgent year) of calls for his head, with the last 3-4 years of struggle and the 02 & 03 titles fading into the distance...and those calls were warranted...and then Guentzel helped save his butt. Don't believe it, ask any former Gopher! Giles has earned a free pass for a few years, but like I said if he doesn't win multiple titles with these 96-2000's (the best 5 year window that they might ever have in their long, distinguished history, but besides KB, the 98's are the weakest link in those years) then bloodlust will be cursing throughout the corridors of Interlachen and the Edina CC.

Couple of responses to the posters, I know how great the younger Walker is, but with the oldest boy ditching out on his senior yr. the week of tryouts and the crowley/finnegan clone leaving after his freshman year...is the writing on the wall enough to see that the youngest won't be spending too much time there either?

I know a lot of the inside nitty-gritty and I can tell you that Giles biggest worry is losing some of these up and coming kids. He is working harder than ever before to recruit kids to stay...something he has never cared about doing before. One of his biggest problems is one of his associations own coaches, who he is convinced is recruiting against him. You all can figure it out. That coach is one of the many in Edina (who for the life of me I can't figure out why, even though I'm bemused by it) who thinks Giles is a bad coach. That he doesn't develop individual skills and saps creativity. Even though the performances of Hurley and Malmquist this year would say otherwise.

From their pee wee a title in 2010, they've already lost 2 of their 3 best players in Walker and Jungels. And from the 2011 team they could sure lose their best player, #23, who goes to a private school (OLG) and who Pauly is recruiting the heck outta. Why do you think the Bantam A coach has his dad as ass't coach which he has been machivellian in terms of recruiting him to stay for the past 5 years? Also for his school, but mostly for his boy #8/#18 too... his boy needs him. Like Robin to Batman.

Then you get into all the 2000's who Pauly and others might have a headway into...I'm saying there will be a lot going on in terms of the crazy hockey capital of MN. It will be fun to see how everything shakes out over the next 5-7 years and how much drama hockey can create in this wisteria lane of MN!
=D>

Not sure if you are a coach in the system or where the info comes from but THIS is a very well written post with quality information and one of the reasons I continue to read this board. Well done sir.

Bluewhitefan
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Post by Bluewhitefan » Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:54 pm

Napalm187 wrote:Bafata...we know your opinion about Giles and it is duly noted...I don't want to turn this into Giles bashing because Karl will lock it up!

I've always been very surprised at all the Giles vitriol in Edina and it is definitely not some silent minority. That kind of goes to the heart of the question that I'm asking if he could make a dynastic run, or maybe like Greg Trebil at AHA, fall short of expectations with all the talent on hand. Note on Trebil, after they won in '05, their teams in 06 (beat Shattuck that year) and in 07 were even better...but they got beat in section final and semi's because of fluky wins (outshooting teams 49-16). That happens, and I'm sure Giles supporters could point out the same thing for him. $h** happens. Not always the most talented team wins as most sports championships prove...one of the exceptions is this years Kentucky b-ball team and BC at NCAA hockey. But you gotta win a few, which Trebil did and Giles has. Which usually gets you into the "lifetime coach" senior emeritus status. Which Giles deserves. He deserves criticism, but to say he should be gone is ridiculous. Who should be coach? There are always going to be boo-birds, no matter what or how you do it. I think Giles is comparable to Don Lucia in a lot of ways. Very good coaches, but not great ones. We saw with Lucia (up until this past resurgent year) of calls for his head, with the last 3-4 years of struggle and the 02 & 03 titles fading into the distance...and those calls were warranted...and then Guentzel helped save his butt. Don't believe it, ask any former Gopher! Giles has earned a free pass for a few years, but like I said if he doesn't win multiple titles with these 96-2000's (the best 5 year window that they might ever have in their long, distinguished history, but besides KB, the 98's are the weakest link in those years) then bloodlust will be cursing throughout the corridors of Interlachen and the Edina CC.

Couple of responses to the posters, I know how great the younger Walker is, but with the oldest boy ditching out on his senior yr. the week of tryouts and the crowley/finnegan clone leaving after his freshman year...is the writing on the wall enough to see that the youngest won't be spending too much time there either?

I know a lot of the inside nitty-gritty and I can tell you that Giles biggest worry is losing some of these up and coming kids. He is working harder than ever before to recruit kids to stay...something he has never cared about doing before. One of his biggest problems is one of his associations own coaches, who he is convinced is recruiting against him. You all can figure it out. That coach is one of the many in Edina (who for the life of me I can't figure out why, even though I'm bemused by it) who thinks Giles is a bad coach. That he doesn't develop individual skills and saps creativity. Even though the performances of Hurley and Malmquist this year would say otherwise.

From their pee wee a title in 2010, they've already lost 2 of their 3 best players in Walker and Jungels. And from the 2011 team they could sure lose their best player, #23, who goes to a private school (OLG) and who Pauly is recruiting the heck outta. Why do you think the Bantam A coach has his dad as ass't coach which he has been machivellian in terms of recruiting him to stay for the past 5 years? Also for his school, but mostly for his boy #8/#18 too... his boy needs him. Like Robin to Batman.

Then you get into all the 2000's who Pauly and others might have a headway into...I'm saying there will be a lot going on in terms of the crazy hockey capital of MN. It will be fun to see how everything shakes out over the next 5-7 years and how much drama hockey can create in this wisteria lane of MN!
Interesting post. Hadn't heard that Walker was gone, but that remains to be seen. There is no question Giles is being recruited against by the BSM ex-hornets - only a couple of role players so far, but who knows. #23 will likely bolt if he doesn't get a wink from Giles. If that happens, Giles will take even more heat than last season. But the bantam coaches kid is not nearly as valuable a commodity - at least at his current size - he may have to go it alone somewhere without #23. Jungles may have been a great player as a youth, but he always had Malmquist.

C-dad
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Post by C-dad » Wed Apr 18, 2012 8:29 pm

Bluewhitefan wrote: Interesting post. Hadn't heard that Walker was gone, but that remains to be seen. There is no question Giles is being recruited against by the BSM ex-hornets - only a couple of role players so far, but who knows. #23 will likely bolt if he doesn't get a wink from Giles. If that happens, Giles will take even more heat than last season. But the bantam coaches kid is not nearly as valuable a commodity - at least at his current size - he may have to go it alone somewhere without #23. Jungles may have been a great player as a youth, but he always had Malmquist.
The wink has been made already. . .

And #23 is not at OLG anymore but at Valley View Middle school. . .

O-townClown
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Post by O-townClown » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:39 pm

(In "30 For 30" promo voice)

What would you say if I told you...

one of the strong players' father mentioned in these posts above actually grew up in Edina and played HS Varsity for St. Thomas Academy?

Is that school ever mentioned as a landing spot for these Edina kids, or is it just Benilde-St. Margaret's? Seems like Holy Angels is out of the mix these days. Holy Family in the future, perhaps?[/i]
Be kind. Rewind.

auld_skool
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Post by auld_skool » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:44 am

The answer to the OP's question is yes. Edina has the essential ingredients for continued success in hockey at all levels:

1) Lots of young families.
2) Lots of motivated, affluent parents.

For every athlete that leaves there are plenty ready to take his place.

gopherpuck516
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Post by gopherpuck516 » Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:53 am

auld_skool wrote:The answer to the OP's question is yes. Edina has the essential ingredients for continued success in hockey at all levels:

1) Lots of young families.
2) Lots of motivated, affluent parents.

For every athlete that leaves there are plenty ready to take his place.
Simple, clear, and concise answer. Also happens to be the correct answer.

Sk8 Str8
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Post by Sk8 Str8 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:16 pm

The answer to the OP's question is yes. Edina has the essential ingredients for continued success in hockey at all levels:

1) Lots of young families.
2) Lots of motivated, affluent parents.

For every athlete that leaves there are plenty ready to take his place.

They also benefit from "new" additions to the program (as do many top programs)...this years team would have had a tougher time scoring goals without the first line Center from Holy Angels
Last edited by Sk8 Str8 on Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Fri Apr 20, 2012 9:28 pm

What city is he from?

Sk8 Str8
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Post by Sk8 Str8 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:00 am

What city is he from?
Eagan--spent at least one year at Shattuck, one year AHA. Dynamic Player but grew up wearing green and blue, not green and white.

eastsideguy
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Post by eastsideguy » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:21 am

O-townClown wrote:(In "30 For 30" promo voice)

What would you say if I told you...

one of the strong players' father mentioned in these posts above actually grew up in Edina and played HS Varsity for St. Thomas Academy?

Is that school ever mentioned as a landing spot for these Edina kids, or is it just Benilde-St. Margaret's? Seems like Holy Angels is out of the mix these days. Holy Family in the future, perhaps?[/i]
I would guess if and when STA opts up, they will be a major factor for these kids. It will put them right with BSM as the top private school option ahead of both HA and HF.

Tigers33
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Post by Tigers33 » Sat Apr 21, 2012 10:42 am

When did he move to Edina? Just this past season.

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