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Team Seeding in The AA Tourney

 
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SECBLUES



Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:19 am    Post subject: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question
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rainier



Joined: 27 Feb 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:22 am    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question


If it's dead even then it shouldn't matter whether they are seeded or not. If anyone can beat anyone then it doesn't matter how it's done.
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MNpuckBlog



Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 86
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

rainier wrote:
SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question


If it's dead even then it shouldn't matter whether they are seeded or not. If anyone can beat anyone then it doesn't matter how it's done.


It's a year to year type of thing. 1AA is generally weak, but had a good team last year who upset #1 seed East. 8AA is hit or miss, last year they had a solid team with great goaltending. It all depends who comes out on top. It could be assumed that the winners of 2AA, 6AA, 4AA (if it's Hill) will be likely seeds this year, but like I said it depends who wins the sections. 7AA and 5AA could have seeded teams this year as well depending how teams do. But the seeding process is supposed to be for upsets although the seeding didn't change much as LS was probably the expected #8 seed (if they went that high) at state playing the #1 seed. Same as Maple Grove vs Hill, Eagan vs Moorhead and Edina vs. Benilde. On a good year they're all good games, but the seeding doesn't change a whole lot other than maybe a favorable quarterfinal game for a good team, but you still have to beat good teams to win it all. I don't necessarily agree with the seedings, but it adds a small amount of excitement with the upset factor.
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WBLHockeyfan04



Joined: 11 Jan 2009
Posts: 361

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

MNpuckBlog wrote:
rainier wrote:
SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question


If it's dead even then it shouldn't matter whether they are seeded or not. If anyone can beat anyone then it doesn't matter how it's done.


It's a year to year type of thing. 1AA is generally weak, but had a good team last year who upset #1 seed East. 8AA is hit or miss, last year they had a solid team with great goaltending. It all depends who comes out on top. It could be assumed that the winners of 2AA, 6AA, 4AA (if it's Hill) will be likely seeds this year, but like I said it depends who wins the sections. 7AA and 5AA could have seeded teams this year as well depending how teams do. But the seeding process is supposed to be for upsets although the seeding didn't change much as LS was probably the expected #8 seed (if they went that high) at state playing the #1 seed. Same as Maple Grove vs Hill, Eagan vs Moorhead and Edina vs. Benilde. On a good year they're all good games, but the seeding doesn't change a whole lot other than maybe a favorable quarterfinal game for a good team, but you still have to beat good teams to win it all. I don't necessarily agree with the seedings, but it adds a small amount of excitement with the upset factor.


Couldn't agree more. Last year you could make an argument that it was the strongest state tournament field since they began the seeding process. I think it does bring a little more excitement with maybe a casual fan rooting for the underdog, or a chance of an upset. It's highly unlikely that all the seeded teams get beat, but it just shows how deep the hockey is here in Minnesota. That's what makes the state tournament so great!

Oh, and I couldn't be happier that I'm now a season ticket holder for this great tournament. Can't wait for March!
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HShockeywatcher



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 6779

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question


Part of it could be how many teams they seed. When the top seed ends up playing a better team than the forth seed in the first round, the whole point of the seeding process has been almost eliminated.
This year the MSHSL has changed to seeding the top 5 in every sport that seeds.

Yes, all 4 seeded teams were upset last year; the year before, none were.
In the last 6 years, there have been 10 upsets in the 24 first round games (3 in 07, 0 in 08, 2 in 09, 1 in 10, 0 in 11, and 4 in 12), and looking at them, I bet the numbers would be much less had the top 5 (or 6) been seeded.

The year before that was 06 when a CDH team with 4 losses won the title; were they really not seeded? Do you have somewhere that shows the bracket from 05-06? I can't find it online.

On top of that, seeding doesn't mean the team will win, it is a reward for how a team played during the regular season. Although, the main reason for seeding (that I heard) was seperating the top two teams early, which has been accomplished.

Just my two cents Very Happy

After looking over the results of the 2006 tournament, I'm convinced there were either 0 or 1 upsets...the teams that won the first round had 1, 4, 4, and 8 regular season losses while the teams that lost had 4, 9, 9 and 11 regular season losses. So, looking at that without knowing the seeding, it appears the numbers in the the 28 games are actually 11 upsets of 28 games.
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celly93



Joined: 19 Jan 2011
Posts: 125

PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

HShockeywatcher wrote:
SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? :?:


Part of it could be how many teams they seed. When the top seed ends up playing a better team than the forth seed in the first round, the whole point of the seeding process has been almost eliminated.
This year the MSHSL has changed to seeding the top 5 in every sport that seeds.

Yes, all 4 seeded teams were upset last year; the year before, none were.
In the last 6 years, there have been 10 upsets in the 24 first round games (3 in 07, 0 in 08, 2 in 09, 1 in 10, 0 in 11, and 4 in 12), and looking at them, I bet the numbers would be much less had the top 5 (or 6) been seeded.

The year before that was 06 when a CDH team with 4 losses won the title; were they really not seeded? Do you have somewhere that shows the bracket from 05-06? I can't find it online.

On top of that, seeding doesn't mean the team will win, it is a reward for how a team played during the regular season. Although, the main reason for seeding (that I heard) was seperating the top two teams early, which has been accomplished.

Just my two cents :D

After looking over the results of the 2006 tournament, I'm convinced there were either 0 or 1 upsets...the teams that won the first round had 1, 4, 4, and 8 regular season losses while the teams that lost had 4, 9, 9 and 11 regular season losses. So, looking at that without knowing the seeding, it appears the numbers in the the 28 games are actually 11 upsets of 28 games.


They didn't seed back then
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MNpuckBlog



Joined: 04 Apr 2012
Posts: 86
Location: Blaine

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:32 am    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

celly93 wrote:
HShockeywatcher wrote:
SECBLUES wrote:
While seeding in the A tourney has proven accurate, the AA tourney is dead even at 14 and 14 with so called upsets happening every year. Is it time to go away with seeding at the state tournament? Even with a so called weak section 1, they have also produced upsets on day 1. what ar5e your thoughts? Question


Part of it could be how many teams they seed. When the top seed ends up playing a better team than the forth seed in the first round, the whole point of the seeding process has been almost eliminated.
This year the MSHSL has changed to seeding the top 5 in every sport that seeds.

Yes, all 4 seeded teams were upset last year; the year before, none were.
In the last 6 years, there have been 10 upsets in the 24 first round games (3 in 07, 0 in 08, 2 in 09, 1 in 10, 0 in 11, and 4 in 12), and looking at them, I bet the numbers would be much less had the top 5 (or 6) been seeded.

The year before that was 06 when a CDH team with 4 losses won the title; were they really not seeded? Do you have somewhere that shows the bracket from 05-06? I can't find it online.

On top of that, seeding doesn't mean the team will win, it is a reward for how a team played during the regular season. Although, the main reason for seeding (that I heard) was seperating the top two teams early, which has been accomplished.

Just my two cents Very Happy

After looking over the results of the 2006 tournament, I'm convinced there were either 0 or 1 upsets...the teams that won the first round had 1, 4, 4, and 8 regular season losses while the teams that lost had 4, 9, 9 and 11 regular season losses. So, looking at that without knowing the seeding, it appears the numbers in the the 28 games are actually 11 upsets of 28 games.


They didn't seed back then


Correct, 07 was the first year of the seeding system. in 06 Cretin would have been a seeded team as these are the matchups from the 06 tourney:

(4) Blaine (23-4-1) (1) Lakeville North (14-11-3) 7-2
(2) Cretin-Derham Hall (24-4) (5) Eagan (18-9-1) 5-2
(3) Hill-Murray (26-1-1) (6) Minnetonka (18-9-1) 5-4
(7) Grand Rapids (19-Cool (Cool Roseau (24-4) 7-4

Numbers are the section not the seeding, all teams on the left won and would have been the likely seeds, with maybe Roseau being seeded and Grand Rapids unseeded based on record. Cretin takes 1st, Rapids 2nd, Blaine 3rd, and Hill 4th place.
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HShockeywatcher



Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 6779

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Team Seeding in The AA Tourney Reply with quote

celly93 wrote:
They didn't seed back then


I didn't think they did but the original poster in this thread started it with "an even 14 and 14" coming from 28 games, which would mean 7 years. I assumed he knew what he was talking about.
So, really it's 10 upsets of 24 matchups. And before last year's all upset quarterfinal round, it was 6 of 20.

I'm glad they are seeding 5 this year. Wish they'd do 6, but this is better than 4.
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joris016



Joined: 06 Dec 2012
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that seeding in the tournament has been a good thing. It prevents two powerhouses from meeting in the quarterfinals and sets up potentially great matchups in the Semis and Finals. It also allows for the two best teams a chance to meet up against one another in the final. And yes, it allows even more "casual" fans who don't have a horse in the race to pull for underdogs. Remember two years ago in the final between East and EP? Seemingly the whole crowd (aside from the EP section) was cheering for East to pull the upset. Seeding has been a good thing.
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