Duluth Marshall starting MSHSL Girls Hockey in 2014-15

[HockeyStorm]

http://www.northlandsnewscenter.com/spo ... 55961.html

[HockeyStorm]

Duluth Marshall is starting a girls hockey program to compete as a Minnesota State High School League-sponsored sport beginning in the 2014-15 school year.

The team will be coached by former Duluth East and Minnesota Duluth star Ryan Coole.

“This helps raise the level of our girls’ athletic programs to the same strong position as our boys’ programs,” Kevin Breen, head of school, said in a release. “We have always had a great deal of success in creating extracurricular opportunities for all of our students.”

The Hilltoppers will compete at the junior varsity level next season but could transition to varsity play as soon as 2015-16.

Marshall was previously joined in a co-op with Proctor and Hermantown until the 2010-11 season, and fielded a U-14 team until the 2012-13 season.

Coole, a defenseman, played four years professionally following his UMD career.

“I am thrilled to start a program from scratch at such a great school and have the opportunity to mold it into the image I have for our players,” Coole said in the release. “The chance for our team and program to grow together, through ups and downs, is very exciting to me.”

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Do you guys have the numbers to make it work? Are last years girls a part of it? Good luck.

[pepperpot]

Weird. This is the same guy who failed to get the Duluth girls coaching job despite his old man being in charge of Duluth hockey. Seems like Marshall didn't learn a lesson the first time. Good luck to them. They'll need it just to get games.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Duluth only has a single team at 14s this year when they've always fielded 2 in the past? Are there even enough girls aging out of 12s to compose three competitive teams next year - association 14s, jv at Marshall and Northern Stars? To me the numbers don't work.

[observer]

To me the numbers don't work.

I believe you're correct NTMH. Even eating the U14 program probably doesn't give them enough bodies.

Frankly, it's a misguided mistake to try. A much better experience for all would be having a strong single association U14 program along with a dedicated JV team and a single HS varsity team. The goal is for HS hockey to be primarily for 10-12th graders. All the girls in town pulling on a single rope would be best.

[Rcoole]

I'm looking forward to the challenge of girls hockey at Duluth Marshall. It is my job to get as many girls as possible to play this great game. The forming of another MSHSL team allows for more opportunity and choice in the city. There is no reason Duluth and surrounding area is able to field 7 boys teams and ONLY 3 girls. It's a challenge but a worthy one.

[observer]

No. It's a mistake. You're dividing girls hockey in Duluth.

Start with recruiting 5 year olds. Dream big and hope for a team in the future.

Next year shoot for 3 or 4 teams of girls between 8th and 12th grade. Varsity, JV, 14A and 14B. That's youth association and the high schools working together. Lets just say that number is 60 players. Will you have 60 girl players between 8th and 12th grade next year? If you have 45 you'll play 14B next year keeping an eye on the growing numbers at U10 and U12.

It will be a better experience, more players playing at the appropriate level and experiencing more success, for all involved to work together. Don't underestimate the importance that the 4 teams doing well has on future recruiting. It will create a positive energy in town with everyone having fun and doing well. Fundraising is also made easier if there's a single organization instead of two girls living on the same block competing for support.

[Rocketwrister]

I'm looking forward to the challenge of girls hockey at Duluth Marshall. It is my job to get as many girls as possible to play this great game. The forming of another MSHSL team allows for more opportunity and choice in the city. There is no reason Duluth and surrounding area is able to field 7 boys teams and ONLY 3 girls. It's a challenge but a worthy one.

Coole your talking out of one side on your mouth. 7 boys teams and only 3 teams? How big of an area are talking about??? Also, everyone knows you'll be trying to rob/recruit kids from these surrounding areas teams...there is a reason why there is limited number of GOOD girls high school teams.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

I am also skeptical about the numbers/ages available to play a jv schedule.

But rob/recruit??? Doesn't Marshall have any girls already enrolled that play hockey elsewhere now? Playing at the school they already attend is not robbing or recruiting. Unless they are bringing in former players or offering billet to out of town students, I don't get your point.

I think Duluth can easily support this team, but prob not for few years.
But I hope it works out, and that is sincere.

P.S. if Marshall offered my 5th grader a full "academic" scholarship (she's an excellent student - all Es and S+s!) we do love Duluth! Wait, I don't think they have 5th grade.

All kidding aside, good for you and good luck.

[Rcoole]

Appreciate the support. The opportunity was brought to me by the administration and current enrolled parents. I answered the request to help a group of kids that have been in the school for 3+ years. They want their own colors and I can't argue with them.

PS....the school does have 5th grade.

[pepperpot]

Where will the players come from? Marshal only had a couple girls when they were part of Hermantown. How many girls stayed from the last team? Your Dad runs Duluth hockey. I'm sure the Duluth parents love that you'll be recruiting their girls!!! Do you think you'll recruit 30 or so girls for a Varsity and JV team? If my girls wanted a private, competitive program for that kind of money, it's the last place we pick. They have a history of failure. The only thing I wish you luck for is bringing in a team of Canadians. Robbing neighboring programs isn't good for girls hockey despite what your ego says. Go to Cloquet instead. They need a coach.

[observer]

The opportunity was brought to me by the administration and current enrolled parents.

The opportunity? Be the bigger man. Be the leader to build girls hockey in Duluth. Don't be the one to divide it. Until there are between 45 and 80 girls players between 8th and 12th grade it's stupid to divide the community. Work together to grow the game. Believe me all the girls will be much better off for it. Your goal is to make it fun for them not allow parents to ruin the fun for their player as well as all the other players in town. The working together, spirit and mood are things that will bring smiles to faces. Don't make enemies, make friends.

I'll ask for two numbers that will indicate when this is feasible.

How many girls hockey players are currently registered between 7th and 11th grade (next season's 14B and HS Varsity and JV numbers).

And, how many new mite girls this year. The number should be between 20-30.

The decision should be made based on benefiting all the players in town not just a few. Life is about serving others. But I'm also saying your idea won't even benefit a few. Sad faces all around when the goal is all smiles.

[goaline]

By reading the back and forth here it seems like this conversation could be had at Perkins down on London Road eh? From an outside perspective, Duluth has 90,000 people and three high schools - let there be opportunity and work harder to promote and build the program beneath it. This is further evidence of what can happen when parents overreach and meddle in HS programs for their temporary agendas. Will you still be going to games and working in the youth program when your daughters graduate? Entitlement begone before someone drops a house on you!

[HockeyStorm]

I think the point being missed here is that most families choose private school because the class sizes and educational offerings are above and beyond what is available from the public school system, Duluth is no exception.

[pepperpot]

Actually Storm, you are WAY off the mark. The real point being missed is that Marshal doesn't have the kids for a program right now. They will have to rob kids from other programs. The programs up here can't afford that. Are they going to give 14 year old girls crash courses in skating to develop a team from girls already there or will there be a sudden epiphany in Duluth that Marshal has a better educational opportunity? I doubt it. They'd be there already if it was "about the class sizes and education". If their enrolment goes up and it happens to be with female hockey players, there's the answer. This weekend one of the parents said that Coole coached a team for the fall "elite" league? Then he sent out letters inviting kids to a summer AAA team he will be coaching. He also sits on the girls youth board in Duluth. Fox in the hen house! Sounds desperate to get his coaching creds. SP wannabe? Like I said before, he should apply at Cloquet. We desperately need a coach and the parents would take anybody. As others have said, Duluth with it's huge population and history, should have at least two HS teams. It's viewed as a joke up here that the heads of boys youth hockey (Cooles Dad?) has neglected the girls program for years despite the parents of the girls youth programs desperately trying to make it better. Observer nailed it. Don't be a divider.

[JohnnyBuck]

Pepperpot is right. I had a family tell me directly that Coole contacted them about their daughter playing on a "AAA" team coached by him this summer. His quotes were "it is going to be a special team". Sounds like the same rhetoric they were running a few years ago with the first failed attempt at girls hockey at Marshall. If he was so motivated at developing more girls hockey in Duluth why doesn't he work with his dad to do more for the girls in Duluth? Treat them equally? Instead knocking on the doors of neighboring communities is not going to increase the number of girls playing in the Duluth area.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Listen, there are plenty of mediocre players in the Duluth area for everyone. Not to be TOO harsh, but I've seen all of those teams play at least once down here this year and its not like there are a bunch of girls ripe for the Marshall picking. IMHO the most talented Duluth talents are coming up on the 12s and 14s. There is a girl playing 14uA I've seen three times this year in the metro who could play varsity for anyone. That's why I stated earlier that this might be a go for a new team in a few years. But c'mon. Are the Stars and Mirage, Hibbing, Cloquet honestly worried this coach could swoop in and take your >50% winning record, inconsistent point scoring girls from you??? The posters on this thread write like the holy legacy of their defending state champs are on the line.

No one has answered if Marshall has current and/or former hockey girls already enrolled. Or if the coaches own kid/kids attend. But despite the daggers you guys are throwing at this new coach, at least one program other than Marshall wants to hire him!

I hope this new team works out for the same reason I hope AA/NE works out. The more and varying options for the girls the better. And although I'm skeptical it could work short term, the boys program shows it could be feasible long term.

Most importantly, don't lump this new coach in with the old program. Don't know him, or his dad, or his AAA summer team... What I do know is the people who brought you Marshall Girls Part 1 are no longer affiliated with Marshall and unlikely affiliated with hockey anywhere. Ever.

[Hard water fan]

Never, your post made me chuckle, and there is some truth to it. I can't speak for any of the teams, but in my opinion the very young Varsity Mirage (11-7 BTW) isn't worried about losing any players. We have a fine crop of kick-arse young players coming up, great coaching and a history of success. In fact we have some very talented 2000 birth year players on our Varsity team. We are fortunate to be the benefactor of a strong youth program, which is now starting to bear fruit. It hasn't always been that way. Not too long ago the Jr. Mirage was hurting for numbers too. We are one family of several who jumped from the Duluth youth program a few years back to the newly formed Marshall team, which I played a roll in helping to form. We left before the blades fell off. I thought the Shattuck model we were pursuing was a good idea, and I believe it still has merit as it was meant to attract kids from outside of our area, including out of state and country, to Duluth for a top Tier1 program. It didn't work out. In fact, DAHA, parents from DAHA and the (then) Coach of the Duluth Girls HS team fought very hard behind closed doors to squash its formation. The overwhelming reason was the thought that it would rob Duluth. Now, the new coach of Marshall sits on the DGHA board and his Dad is the E.D. of DAHA. Strange bedfellows. Regardless, the new team Marshall is trying to form is much different than a Tier 1 model. It will look to take lots of kids from neighboring programs, most likely Duluth. Duluth has really struggled mightily over the years. Much of that has to do with the patriarchal leadership at DAHA, that has viewed the Girls program as secondary to the boys. In DAHA's defense (sort of), they can only do so much. They are the only association in Minnesota that still operates under a neighborhood rink model, which competes for girls to boost their association money. The DGHA is considered one of the neighborhood rinks and has to compete with the other dozen or so rinks. To put it into perspective, how healthy do you think Edina or Centennial or any of the other large associations would be if there was a dozen girls programs in their town, all competing for your girls money. The reason behind this has to do with history, economics and a whole host of other meaningless details that don't hold water with modern programs. For a 1950's model it was great, but not anymore. Statistics bear out that the attrition rate for girls playing with boys is much higher than girls playing with girls in a healthy organization. This, in my opinion, is why Duluth has struggled. As Observer correctly points out, they haven't kept up with the growth model of a healthy association, and probably won't until DAHA changes its ways. When I was on the board 5 years ago, we fought hard to have DAHA allow the DGHA to become an association autonomous of DAHA. They wouldn't allow that to happen, again due to (IMO) misogyny from the old guard and money. The trend seems to be shifting, but change happens as fast as frozen maple syrup in Duluth.

Where does that leave Marshall? A very slim pool to pick from. I think they only have one player left from the 14U team that is playing? We all know they will have to field both a JV and Varsity to keep it sustained. That's a lot of kids to recruit if you don't have something unique or different. Comparing it to the AA program in a market like the TC isn't possible, nor comparing it to the Marshall boys team that has a fantastic coach with a long history of success. Regarding new coach, I would imagine he won't be coaching a AAA team even if he did get it together. MSHSL won't look too kindly on that, especially if he's planning on taking the team to a late summer East Coast tournament. I think someone from Blake got the broom for that? Regardless, you have to give Marshall credit for getting up off the ground after continuing to get knocked down...but sometimes it's best if you walk away after getting back up.

PL

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Wow. Everything I ever wanted to know about Duluth Girls Hockey (and a lot more I didn't.) Thank you for your thoughtful answer.

One more ? We read about the original program and their practice and travel schedule with envy. IMHO lots of unique things to bring in new blood. But Marshall is now looking at a traditional not unique at all model? Not a draw anywhere but kids who would prob be coming for the education anyway?

I hope girls hockey grows all over to support as many teams as possible. Maybe the new coach knows about the incoming class than you or any of us do?

Sorry didn't mean to rip on your team... but I'm glad you got my point.

[Hard water fan]

No harm. I figured you were speaking more to Duluth or Cloquet anyway based on their W/L. We all want girls programs to succeed, but not at the cost of weakening the programs who are already having a rough go of it. Let's be straight. Female varsity aged kids wouldn't be transfering to Marshall for the education. They'd go for hockey. And IMO, they won't be doing that either now that Duluth has a solid new coach...but we'll see.

[JohnnyBuck]

Listen, there are plenty of mediocre players in the Duluth area for everyone. Not to be TOO harsh, but I've seen all of those teams play at least once down here this year and its not like there are a bunch of girls ripe for the Marshall picking. IMHO the most talented Duluth talents are coming up on the 12s and 14s. There is a girl playing 14uA I've seen three times this year in the metro who could play varsity for anyone.

I am sure she can play varsity NTMH. There are several 14 year old girls playing varsity in the entire state. This should surprise no one and shouldn't propel Duluth to the top of the leader board for future state tournament appearances. For someone who has self disclosed that he has started to watch girls hockey now that his daughter is a 5th grader makes me wonder how you became such an expert on former and current talent compared to the future?

[JohnnyBuck]

MSHSL won't look too kindly on that, especially if he's planning on taking the team to a late summer East Coast tournament. I think someone from Blake got the broom for that?
PL

Actually Breck's coach got the broom for that one.

[MNHockeyFan]

Actually Breck's coach got the broom for that one.

Former coach!

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

[/quote] I am sure she can play varsity NTMH. There are several 14 year old girls playing varsity in the entire state. This should surprise no one and shouldn't propel Duluth to the top of the leader board for future state tournament appearances. For someone who has self disclosed that he has started to watch girls hockey now that his daughter is a 5th grader makes me wonder how you became such an expert on former and current talent compared to the future? [/quote]

What in the h e double hockey sticks are you even talking about???
1) I meant she was good enough to play anywhere. And she's from Duluth! Wow an elite player from Duluth. I know right? (Plz recognize sarcasm HERE.) I'm aware that there are ninth, and even 7th and 8th, graders rostered, starting, and even getting serious points and attention at varsity level.
2) I'm glad SOMEONE has confidence their Duluth team will get to state. Even after the pending Marshall robbery.
3) My daughter plays 12uA. They've played the Icebreakers over the last few years. I've even watched them AND somewhat familiarized myself with their rosters, both in season and over the summer.
4) Close family friend with a daughter at 14s. I've seen them play a dozen times last few years. One of their kids went through the ringer of the debacle that was Marshall Girls Hockey, Part 1.
5) My son is a sophomore and played vs. Duluth on many different teams and tourneys over the years. Also attended the Icebreakers tourney for a lot of years. Saw a lot of Stars hockey under SD and a little over the summer and this season under CS.
I never claimed to be an expert but I've seen a lot of hockey in the metro, north metro, Duluth, and even St. Cloud over the last 7-8 years. I know a little about every team, more about some, a lot about a few. Prob like every other dad here. My opinions are only that - OPINIONS. But if for some reason numbers 1-5 above don't contribute to the credibility of MY opinions in YOUR opinion, I'd invite you to point out the specifics of where we disagree. Glad you are keeping a close eye on my résumé. Feel free to share yours.

Pretty sure I never said I STARTED to watch girls hockey with an eye on my daughters future. Just paying closer attention and this board was recommended to me. Thankfully lots of the guys here know a lot more than you do and can offer their opinions and experiences without questioning my or others motives.

You got me. I'm really starting a northern branch of AA/NE and I'm scouting all the Duluth girls - THAT'S WHY I'm such an expert on your association.
OR NOT.