Cloquet at Brainerd 01/02/06

boblee
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Re: Seedings

Post by boblee » Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:20 pm

I am convinced Brainerd is a top 3 section 7AA team now...and it is showing me that GR maybe the number 1...Brainerd shouldnt have lost to Flake. <p><br><br>_________________<br><br>BOB</p><i></i>

BELOW 0 ZERO
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I guess the beachbaLL was no problem tonight.....

Post by BELOW 0 ZERO » Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:32 pm

It appears at this point of the season that CEC is the best team in 7AA. They are relentless forecheckers and did something Hill Murray couldn't acclomplish, outshooting Barnherd by alot. They also have a goalie that turned away many quality scoring chances point blank. Barnherd looked a little tired while CEC looked rested. A great hs hockey game that I just watched on tape (tanks v-gout). It appears Barnherds stud stable needs to step it up a notch. Hopefully they can bowl. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: rankings

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:43 am

I base my rankings on what team I think is the best, starting with the total group.<br><br>1. Cloquet - Based on their schedule, their wins (and ties). They lost to GR early on in GR (but played with them or better).<br>2. East - Again, based on what they have done in the last two weeks, I give them the nod over<br>3. Grand Rapids - Proven themselves in Section games, but not against other opponents (I still refer back to the Virginia game - as I only place Virginia 3rd in Section 7A, I find it ahrd to place GR higher than 3rd in 7AA). Again, they have a schedule that is demanding but at the same time gives them ample opportunity to advance.<br>4. Brainerd - lost to Falke ina fluke (from where I sit), played CEC and GR very tough. Solid team with potential to come out of 7AA. If they have the potential to win then they should be at home the first round.<br>5. Elk River - One more chance to move up, but don't see it happening. Above Flake just because they have the coach.<br>6. Flake - good team but not going to win the Section (IMHO).<br><br>7,8,9 - The other teams have decent (good) records, but St Francis big win was 5 - 3 over Monticello. <p></p><i></i>

gr19
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Re: rankings

Post by gr19 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:14 am

Okay, there is a difference between rankings and seedings, which one is that? If it's rankings, that's fine, that's open to interpretation. When it comes to seedings you can't say a loss to a 7AA team was a fluke with an attempt to erase it from your slate upon which you are judged. If the 7AA games head to head don't hold the same weight, whether it's Nov. or Feb., then why even play them. Rapids gave everything they had to beat CEC, they did it, and the reward should be a higher seed. Ofcourse, they play each other again. I would say that East would be seeded third right now because of comparing 7AA games. Also, I have some difficulty seeding Brainerd ahead of Forest Lake even though Brainerd is probably the better team, FL did what they needed to to win. The Rangers deserve a reward for that. <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: rankings

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:40 am

GR<br>Your logic makes sense, but unless the coaches voting is bound by those games then it goes out the window. If they vote as 8AA votes (with those factors in mind but not binding) then anything goes. <br><br>So in 7AA how do you keep St Francis out of the top 4? Good record - no losses in Section 7AA. Because they are not as good as the other teams, that is how. And how do we know that for sure without games being played - we don't. So we (the coaches) vote.<br><br>So yes, an early season wins means less than a late season (same for losses). <br><br>The section is not a conference or a league where the games within the section are the only ones that count. It can't be done that way, so it comes down to who the coaches think are better come February.<br><br>That is how I was 'voting' bsaed on where everyone is today. <p></p><i></i>

gr19
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Re: rankings

Post by gr19 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:49 am

I was told by a player that the 7AA games hold the most weight. I know it's not like standings in a conference. However, the 7AA games should hold the most weight. If it's based on how they are playing at the end of the year, that is the biggest load of BS ever to base things like that. Then a coach can just make things up and justify throwing a wrench in there with their rankings because of their personal opinion. Personal opinion plays a role yes, but it shouldn't completely override what took place within the section. I don't buy the St. Francis argument, everyone knows they and two other teams are 7-9 seeds. They just don't have the talent to even be close to being brought into the equation of the top 6. It's like this, you seed the top 6 and the bottom 3 as separate groups, until one of them does something to warrant being grouped with the other teams. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: rankings

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:24 am

GR<br>I agree with you, but until everyone plays each other within a section for a 2 or 4 point game, other factors will come into play. And that is how it is - coaches vote. They are not given a magical sheet that says follow the instrucitons and vote that way. They vote based on who they 'feel' (whatever that means) the teams should be seeded. As stated earlier in this or another thread - it is not that cut and dry. Section 8AA now FAXES their votes in and lets the secretary tabulate them and leaves it at that. At with such geographical, scheduling and conference differences how do you know something about the other teams.<br><br>Well, Brainerd knows Flake because they played and lost to them early on. But did they get beat bad or was it anyones game? Did they get beat by a hot goaltender? Were players out sick? Was it the first game of the year or towards the end of the year? All factors that may or may not come to a coaches mind when seeding.<br><br>If East is the best team by the end of the year should they be seeded 2 or 3 becaue they lost a game in November to CEC? Should the 2 or 3 team have to face them in the semis?<br><br>If the regualr season games are to mean more than a gauge, then everyone needs to play everyone else (whether it be a 2 2pt games or 1 4 pt game). But is East going to give up some of its tough games to get Andover and St Francis (nothing against them but at this point in time they are deemed to be weaker)?<br><br>Again, I am not disagreeing with you, but from where I watch, that is how I interpret the system to work (right or wrong). <p></p><i></i>

gr19
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Re: rankings

Post by gr19 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:36 am

Other factors do come into play, however, I'm under the impression that 7AA games are looked at first, then when it's difficult to decide the other factors (comparable opponents) come into play. I'm not really saying it's cut and dry, but just a line of reasoning I think they use. I think one way something becomes cut and dry is when a team goes undefeated or by far has the best record in the section playing all the top teams in the section. East, Rapids, CEC, and Brainerd have all played tough schedules, winning and losing to top teams. One rule I do know about the seedings, is head to head comes into play when teams tie in the final tally. I did know about 8AA faxing them in. I was at the Rapids/Roseau game last year and I was talking to both head coaches during the JV game. That was interesting to learn the differences in the sections.<br><br>I guess, here is my deal, If Rapids loses both games next week (east and CEC) I can see them at #3. Any other scenario and if they are not a 1 or 2 seed, it is completely wrong. <p></p><i></i>

elliott70
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Re: rankings

Post by elliott70 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 11:42 am

I agree, Ijust doubt that they can win both games (or either). <br>But they are certainly capable of winning them.<br>And if they do go undefeated in the section they will probably get the #1 seed, but again how will everyone vote (especially those teams they do not play). <p></p><i></i>

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