.......is in a downward spiral, out-of-control, shadow of a once proud program. 21 L, 3T, and 7 W in the last two years. Pride, hard-work, tradition, all seem to have vanished. Now it resembles a 4th grade classroom mentality. with an elementary school teacher leading them into a "victim laiden" rant of it's your fault! "I am the victim" "I am going to get mine" "Looting of the minds" "Get what you can" "Burn everything on the way out" "it's not mine...what do I care"
Class A hockey here they come. They are all victims so don't look at them funny. See they don't take any personal responsibility. and want all the rewards but no responsibility.
Well I don't think like a victim. I've got dreams and will make my own way. See if I sit and wait to for someone else to do it for me. or hold out my hand and "cry" "victim" "its all your fault".
1. Make a choice
2. Take ownership
3. No regrets
or
1. Let somebody else choose for me
2. I'm not responsible (blame them...heck you made the choice!)
3. I will get mine
oh well.
Cloque-Esko-Carlton Girls High school hockey......
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Re: Cloque-Esko-Carlton Girls High school hockey......
kniven wrote:.......is in a downward spiral, out-of-control, shadow of a once proud program. 21 L, 3T, and 7 W in the last two years. Pride, hard-work, tradition, all seem to have vanished. Now it resembles a 4th grade classroom mentality. with an elementary school teacher leading them into a "victim laiden" rant of it's your fault! "I am the victim" "I am going to get mine" "Looting of the minds" "Get what you can" "Burn everything on the way out" "it's not mine...what do I care"
Class A hockey here they come. They are all victims so don't look at them funny. See they don't take any personal responsibility. and want all the rewards but no responsibility.
Well I don't think like a victim. I've got dreams and will make my own way. See if I sit and wait to for someone else to do it for me. or hold out my hand and "cry" "victim" "its all your fault".
Don't get me wrong I'm always a fan of the girls Jack hockey players. It's just that it's hard for me to care right now, when it's obvious the girls don't. Can't just show up and expect to win.
1. Make a choice
2. Take ownership
3. No regrets
or
1. Let somebody else choose for me
2. I'm not responsible (blame them...heck you made the choice!)
3. I will get mine
oh well.
-
Nevertoomuchhockey
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Well.... I see you bumped your post since the hundreds who have read it didn't bite. I think we were expecting pepper or the other up north uncles to chime in.
I don't personally know most of the girls on your team, their families, the coaches, the city/school/culture. It's unclear where even you are assigning the blame for their underwhelming performance.
I remember the end of last season when some were on here with similar concerns. Sounds like nothing has changed?
I think we can all feel or at least empathize with your pain. The financial investment in this game is substantial; the emotional investment can be even greater. I would only say that the dads moms coaches players who you are trying to get this message to will NOT GET IT in this medium. Even if they came upon the post on this board they are unlikely to see themselves in it.
So now what?
We played your 12u team last season and there were at least 2 or 3 excellent players. Your feeder program seems healthy enough. Are you losing girls - to other sports or teams? Are expectations unreasonable? I hope you find your audience and that it's universally acknowledged that it HAS TO get better.
Every point on your post may be 100% correct as it regards your team. But I have to question your condescension toward A hockey. Seems to me that some of the best teams up north (and statewide?) are playing A.
Good luck. It's a long season to be so miserable a month in.
I don't personally know most of the girls on your team, their families, the coaches, the city/school/culture. It's unclear where even you are assigning the blame for their underwhelming performance.
I remember the end of last season when some were on here with similar concerns. Sounds like nothing has changed?
I think we can all feel or at least empathize with your pain. The financial investment in this game is substantial; the emotional investment can be even greater. I would only say that the dads moms coaches players who you are trying to get this message to will NOT GET IT in this medium. Even if they came upon the post on this board they are unlikely to see themselves in it.
So now what?
We played your 12u team last season and there were at least 2 or 3 excellent players. Your feeder program seems healthy enough. Are you losing girls - to other sports or teams? Are expectations unreasonable? I hope you find your audience and that it's universally acknowledged that it HAS TO get better.
Every point on your post may be 100% correct as it regards your team. But I have to question your condescension toward A hockey. Seems to me that some of the best teams up north (and statewide?) are playing A.
Good luck. It's a long season to be so miserable a month in.
I think Cloquet should play Class A. It may solve lots of problems.
1. Softer schedule. Maybe 7-21-3 turns into 21-7-3.
2. Success breeds happiness. Maybe a section final rather than an early round loss to a northern suburb.
3. Time to ask what's most important for the good of the program, they play in the X for class A too!
1. Softer schedule. Maybe 7-21-3 turns into 21-7-3.
2. Success breeds happiness. Maybe a section final rather than an early round loss to a northern suburb.
3. Time to ask what's most important for the good of the program, they play in the X for class A too!
The girls game lost a GREAT coach when when Coach Bart was treated so poorly after all he had done for the CEC program and the girls game as a whole. Unfortunately we haven't learned from past mistakes, as running out a coach is the knee jerk response in many communities.hockey21 wrote:Should never of run coach Bartollie out he gave his heart and sole to that program. Best coach you ever had.
-
Hard water fan
- Posts: 173
- Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 4:02 pm
As my daughter has played with the majority of these girls for over 8 years on various summer teams etc., I feel horrible about the situation in Cloquet. Girls shouldn't be walking out of the locker room with tears or thoughts of quitting after every game. IMO, responsibility for a program that has developed a culture of blame, negativity, and other characteristics of dysfunction needs to look no further than the coaching staff and AD. It is their responsibility to create the culture that promotes winning. Rolling two lines every game with coaches favorites doesn't foster team unity or W's. Bring Bart back, who is a dedicated, thoughtful coach who could turn that program around over night...
-
JohnnyBuck
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:03 pm
What do you know about it Johnny? Maybe your new to the program so I'll cut you some slack. 10 years has nothing to do with anything. Parents, coaches and players who have gone off their rocker does. No different than a job. Poor performance means hit the road. These coaches have done a horrible job of doing anything that keeps a team together. If it was our boys team with the same issues they would have had a whole new coaching staff this year. 
Re: Cloque-Esko-Carlton Girls High school hockey......
wow. I just got back from filming the PeeWee AA boys hockey game in Cloquet vs. Superior. Coach Horvat came and talked with me. I feel terrible. I, in no way, meant to imply that Coach is a terrible coach, or that the girls on his hockey team are horrible players.kniven wrote:.......is in a downward spiral, out-of-control, shadow of a once proud program. 21 L, 3T, and 7 W in the last two years. Pride, hard-work, tradition, all seem to have vanished. Now it resembles a 4th grade classroom mentality. with an elementary school teacher leading them into a "victim laiden" rant of it's your fault! "I am the victim" "I am going to get mine" "Looting of the minds" "Get what you can" "Burn everything on the way out" "it's not mine...what do I care"
Class A hockey here they come. They are all victims so don't look at them funny. See they don't take any personal responsibility. and want all the rewards but no responsibility.
Well I don't think like a victim. I've got dreams and will make my own way. See if I sit and wait to for someone else to do it for me. or hold out my hand and "cry" "victim" "its all your fault".
1. Make a choice
2. Take ownership
3. No regrets
or
1. Let somebody else choose for me
2. I'm not responsible (blame them...heck you made the choice!)
3. I will get mine
oh well.
I am a huge fan of Lumberjack hockey, and it makes me sad to see the girls not winning hockey games. Working hard and competing is so much easier when you win more than you loose. I feel bad that the girls team is going through this.
I do not hate any of our coaches or any of our players. I am always a fan first of our kids. I do what I do first for the kids. I want to make a difference in a good way, never a bad way. That's why I do what I do.
Nobody can never tell me that I can't be a fan anymore. That makes me happy. Because that's the most important thing to me.
Again, I need to be clear. I know the kids. It makes me feel bad to see these kids loose. Winning is more fun, at least it was when I was a kid. I do not hate anybody. It is not in my DNA. I am a huge fan who cares about our student athletes. If I can do more to help than just go to the games and cheer in my seat with all the other fans, I will do it. If I can't, then I'll just be a fan, and cheer my butt off for our girls and boys Lumberjacks hockey teams....youth and high school. It's a win-win situation for me. Ken Guske Niven
".......is in a downward spiral, out-of-control, shadow of a once proud program."
I never thought it would get this bad. At least we have company Duluth is just as bad. Duluth lost two more captains mid season. We will have players leaving the program this year, some quitting and some will probably move. Moving to A next year won't help either. Just a bad deal all around. Finger pointing by kids, parents going crazy, coaches have lost the respect of the kids and parents. Clean house or the program is in jeopardy.
I never thought it would get this bad. At least we have company Duluth is just as bad. Duluth lost two more captains mid season. We will have players leaving the program this year, some quitting and some will probably move. Moving to A next year won't help either. Just a bad deal all around. Finger pointing by kids, parents going crazy, coaches have lost the respect of the kids and parents. Clean house or the program is in jeopardy.
-
Nevertoomuchhockey
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
It's nice that you can console yourself that if your team is having a bad year well at least your rival is having a worse year. (And please notice how I didn't blame the girls who I'm sure are working just as hard as they did when their program was winning.) You put down our metro privates but that's just about as cut-throat as anything we've seen down here in recent memory.
And apparently you don't have to actually move. You just have to change schools and ask for an eligibility exemption or tell your new AD you moved. There's always Marshall!
I don't know the answer but I appreciate the fact that I can come here and read what a guy from Hermantown knows about your program stated more respectfully and at least from the outside more intelligently than those of you who have been there 10 years.
And apparently you don't have to actually move. You just have to change schools and ask for an eligibility exemption or tell your new AD you moved. There's always Marshall!
I don't know the answer but I appreciate the fact that I can come here and read what a guy from Hermantown knows about your program stated more respectfully and at least from the outside more intelligently than those of you who have been there 10 years.
I dont know the supposed issues of CEC but on fast glance of enrollment they are right on par with Hibbing and Proctor and much closer to Moose Lake then Eden Prairie, Stillwater, Wayzata or even Andover, FLake and Elk River. Playing where you should be and competing cures alot of self induced, perceived ills. Its time for the small northern schools to swallow pride and stay "A"
Goaline, you're mostly right, but the numbers at the youth level are weak. Some of the parents think it's a disgrace to play A, but your right. Play at the right level, although I'm not sure it will help with this crowd. Coaching has been rough and allowed kids and parents to go bat*** crazy. Youth program needs to look at the surrounding area and see what they are doing right. Proctor and Hermantown both have a ton of kids coming up. No surprise they are doing well. Moose Lake is small, but does a great job.
Nevertoomanyshankers, your hole just "never" quits, does it? I understand your need to comment on every post, but really, its not necessary. We get it. With all of the worldly travels with your daughter (gotta bridge for sale if you believe that!)you are now a self-appointed expert on anything girls hockey related. You have a vast knowledge of everything from the metro privates to Marshal. Mites to Olympics. Well, most of us agree that privates should be having their own dance instead of dirtying everyone elses floor. Can't say I'm not happy to see some of the privates doing poorly this year. Maybe yours is one of them? Nothing I would love better than to see Blake and Breck get knocked off, although Blake looks tough. With cheater out SPU will have to earn a legitimate spot this year. HM is down. BSM is down. Maybe the hockey Gods have seen enough of them and smile on the publics this year.
Nevertoomanyshankers, your hole just "never" quits, does it? I understand your need to comment on every post, but really, its not necessary. We get it. With all of the worldly travels with your daughter (gotta bridge for sale if you believe that!)you are now a self-appointed expert on anything girls hockey related. You have a vast knowledge of everything from the metro privates to Marshal. Mites to Olympics. Well, most of us agree that privates should be having their own dance instead of dirtying everyone elses floor. Can't say I'm not happy to see some of the privates doing poorly this year. Maybe yours is one of them? Nothing I would love better than to see Blake and Breck get knocked off, although Blake looks tough. With cheater out SPU will have to earn a legitimate spot this year. HM is down. BSM is down. Maybe the hockey Gods have seen enough of them and smile on the publics this year.
-
Nevertoomuchhockey
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Whhaatt? There are so many things wrong with this, I can't even. The grammar and typos alone.
I'll just say this - the privates are to blame for the demise of Cloquet? Would that be Marshall, or Mirage?
I don't comment on even close to every post; only the ones that beg BEG commenting on.
And yes my daughter has traveled the world as far south as Arizona alllll the way north to Duluth. My son has even been to Vancouver. The world they've seen!
I don't know everything. I don't claim to. But I know what my own family and neighbors have experienced. I know what I've personally witnessed be it teams players parents programs or coaches. You are welcome to any opinion you'd like be it of me or anything I have to say. Your opinions may be based in large part on some pretty specious reasoning and far reaching assumptions, but whatever.
But I hereby swear on the MN Girls Hockey Forum that the day I'm so invested in hockey that it makes me more miserable than it does happy, I'm out. My kids are out. I will never judge them as people by their success at this game, nor my success as a parent by my children's hockey accomplishments.
I'll just say this - the privates are to blame for the demise of Cloquet? Would that be Marshall, or Mirage?
I don't comment on even close to every post; only the ones that beg BEG commenting on.
And yes my daughter has traveled the world as far south as Arizona alllll the way north to Duluth. My son has even been to Vancouver. The world they've seen!
I don't know everything. I don't claim to. But I know what my own family and neighbors have experienced. I know what I've personally witnessed be it teams players parents programs or coaches. You are welcome to any opinion you'd like be it of me or anything I have to say. Your opinions may be based in large part on some pretty specious reasoning and far reaching assumptions, but whatever.
But I hereby swear on the MN Girls Hockey Forum that the day I'm so invested in hockey that it makes me more miserable than it does happy, I'm out. My kids are out. I will never judge them as people by their success at this game, nor my success as a parent by my children's hockey accomplishments.
Wow you think HM is down and Duluth has it as bad as your beloved program?? (Earlier post ) HM is looking good and deep! (Goaltending weakest point) Blake or Breck will win A State to your dissatifaction and Duluth smoked your squad Thursday 5-0? You are as bad as Nevertoomuchposting! How did your squad do tonight vs Hibbing/Chisolm juggernaut ??pepperpot wrote:Goaline, you're mostly right, but the numbers at the youth level are weak. Some of the parents think it's a disgrace to play A, but your right. Play at the right level, although I'm not sure it will help with this crowd. Coaching has been rough and allowed kids and parents to go bat*** crazy. Youth program needs to look at the surrounding area and see what they are doing right. Proctor and Hermantown both have a ton of kids coming up. No surprise they are doing well. Moose Lake is small, but does a great job.
Nevertoomanyshankers, your hole just "never" quits, does it? I understand your need to comment on every post, but really, its not necessary. We get it. With all of the worldly travels with your daughter (gotta bridge for sale if you believe that!)you are now a self-appointed expert on anything girls hockey related. You have a vast knowledge of everything from the metro privates to Marshal. Mites to Olympics. Well, most of us agree that privates should be having their own dance instead of dirtying everyone elses floor. Can't say I'm not happy to see some of the privates doing poorly this year. Maybe yours is one of them? Nothing I would love better than to see Blake and Breck get knocked off, although Blake looks tough. With cheater out SPU will have to earn a legitimate spot this year. HM is down. BSM is down. Maybe the hockey Gods have seen enough of them and smile on the publics this year.
Funny guy aaa! We have 6 wins on the year after last nights beat down of Hibbing. It looks like Duluth will end up with 9 wins? Nothing to be proud of when it comes to representing AA northern hockey or comparing losing records. I hope Rapids can pull off some upsets. Hill Murray? They won't win state again. Bet on it. Don't count on Blake or Breck either. Thief could upset.
-
hockeywild7
- Posts: 421
- Joined: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:20 am
-
Nevertoomuchhockey
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:59 pm
Really? Please point out to me where I've been critical of any kid or program. If I've displayed even a tenth of the misery that dude brings to every discussion then I need to have my better half edit my posts.AAA Dad wrote:Wow you think HM is down and Duluth has it as bad as your beloved program?? (Earlier post ) HM is looking good and deep! (Goaltending weakest point) Blake or Breck will win A State to your dissatifaction and Duluth smoked your squad Thursday 5-0? You are as bad as Nevertoomuchposting! How did your squad do tonight vs Hibbing/Chisolm juggernaut ??pepperpot wrote:Goaline, you're mostly right, but the numbers at the youth level are weak. Some of the parents think it's a disgrace to play A, but your right. Play at the right level, although I'm not sure it will help with this crowd. Coaching has been rough and allowed kids and parents to go bat*** crazy. Youth program needs to look at the surrounding area and see what they are doing right. Proctor and Hermantown both have a ton of kids coming up. No surprise they are doing well. Moose Lake is small, but does a great job.
Nevertoomanyshankers, your hole just "never" quits, does it? I understand your need to comment on every post, but really, its not necessary. We get it. With all of the worldly travels with your daughter (gotta bridge for sale if you believe that!)you are now a self-appointed expert on anything girls hockey related. You have a vast knowledge of everything from the metro privates to Marshal. Mites to Olympics. Well, most of us agree that privates should be having their own dance instead of dirtying everyone elses floor. Can't say I'm not happy to see some of the privates doing poorly this year. Maybe yours is one of them? Nothing I would love better than to see Blake and Breck get knocked off, although Blake looks tough. With cheater out SPU will have to earn a legitimate spot this year. HM is down. BSM is down. Maybe the hockey Gods have seen enough of them and smile on the publics this year.
-
MNHockeyFan
- Posts: 7260
- Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 10:28 pm
-
Rocketwrister
- Posts: 699
- Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 10:45 am
I think it says a lot about our hockey culture in Cloquet Esko and Carlton. We want to play the best. We might get knocked down, but I guarantee you we get back up and keep coming. Having a chance to be the best in the state is worth more than wondering if we could be the best in the state.Rocketwrister wrote:Good for them, both boys and girls program! Anyone close to program have any thoughts?
Where's pepper hiding at?