Tier 1 ruling surrounding the HS season...different?

massalsa · Post by **massalsa** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:14 pm

Feel free to move this admin if this is NOT appropriate for this and should go to AAA board...feels like this certainly will effect current and future HS players and is NOT something that is Shattuck/Revolution/Thoroughbred centric.

Looks like an extension of HP stuff...

Minnesota Hockey Adopts Resolution for Tier 1 Hockey

St. Paul, MN – January 27, 2015 – The Minnesota Hockey Board of Directors has passed a resolution to adopt a framework and definition of Tier 1 hockey in Minnesota. Beginning with the 2015-16 season, Tier 1 hockey in Minnesota will be administered by Minnesota Hockey, and teams will be organized and run by Minnesota Hockey as an extension of the Minnesota Hockey High Performance programs.

Tier 1 hockey in Minnesota will be limited to the following age classifications for which USA Hockey conducts National Championships: 14U Youth/Girls, 16U Youth/Girls, 18U Youth and 19U Girls. The framework allows for eight teams made up entirely of Minnesota players and/or students with the teams being formed based on geography. The teams will compete in late summer and fall, prior to the start of the Minnesota Hockey and Minnesota State High School League seasons, after which the players would return to their associations or high school teams. The top team to come out of playdowns in the fall will come together in the spring to compete to play for a USA Hockey National Championship.

“The opportunity for Minnesota players to tryout out for and potentially compete for a USA Hockey National Championship is exciting” said Dave Margenau, President of Minnesota Hockey. “The Tier 1 structure that was approved compliments and enhances our highly successful community based model”

Minnesota Hockey’s Tier 1 proposal was presented at USA Hockey’s winter meeting on Saturday, January 17. The USA Hockey Youth Council voted unanimously to support the Tier 1 framework in Minnesota.

“This new Tier 1 resolution adopted by Minnesota Hockey is great news for hockey in the United States,” said USA Hockey Youth Council chair, Dave Klasnick. “Many of the country’s best youth and girls hockey players reside in the State of Hockey, and this framework will allow for some of those players to be showcased at our National Championships. We are fully supportive of this initiative taken by Minnesota Hockey and thrilled that it will allow all players the opportunity to compete.”

In September of 2014, Minnesota Hockey designated a committee to explore and define Tier 1 hockey in Minnesota. The findings and recommendation of the committee were voted on and approved by the Minnesota Hockey board on Sunday, January 25, 2015.

As part of the proposal, provisions will be made for in-season Tier 1 hockey to be allowed for Minnesota’s established legacy programs: Shattuck St. Mary’s and Thoroughbreds girls’ hockey.

Further details regarding teams, scheduling and oversight will be announced at a later date.

Glen Andresen | Executive Director, Minnesota Hockey

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:55 pm

Brings up more questions then answers them. What about the status of the Revolution? Blades and other entities before and after?

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:55 am

Coachk wrote:Brings up more questions then answers them. What about the status of the Revolution? Blades and other entities before and after?

They made it clear when they gave them approval last year that it was for the 2014-2015 season only, and that they would develop a comprehensive plan after that. Looks like the comprehensive plan doesn't include them moving forward. Those kids that played Before and After for the Blades can easily merge into one of the eight teams. Looks like Revolution is SOL.

royals dad · Post by **royals dad** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:25 am

From what I have seen in past years, teams like the HS Elites 1s, Whitcaps, or Ice Cats would be able to compete consistently for championships at the National Tournament. Maybe even the final 54s or Northern Starz. I am not sure that the teams I have seen in the 8 section high performance tournament will fair as well or could realistically get past SSM annually.

I do think this is a good step and appreciate that they are being protective of the HS and Association Hockey in Minnesota, but know that teams like Mission and Assabet are drawing from multiple states and have core players that play together for years. Minnesota All Star teams have done well when it is 2 or 3 teams at a birth year, I think we will really struggle at 8 teams per birth year. Seems like a great first step and a really positive shift in the landscape.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:40 am

royals dad wrote:From what I have seen in past years, teams like the HS Elites 1s, Whitcaps, or Ice Cats would be able to compete consistently for championships at the National Tournament. Maybe even the final 54s or Northern Starz. I am not sure that the teams I have seen in the 8 section high performance tournament will fair as well or could realistically get past SSM annually.

I do think this is a good step and appreciate that they are being protective of the HS and Association Hockey in Minnesota, but know that teams like Mission and Assabet are drawing from multiple states and have core players that play together for years. Minnesota All Star teams have done well when it is 2 or 3 teams at a birth year, I think we will really struggle at 8 teams per birth year. Seems like a great first step and a really positive shift in the landscape.

I don't think anyone cares how well they will compete as far as National Championships. It's all about making the Tier 1 issue go away for good while not affecting the High School or Association model. I think they nailed it.

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 5:27 pm

This will be interesting. How will Minnesota Hockey play this out? Looks like they have already cut a deal with Shattuck and the Thoroughbred's. Can't believe one year later I'm ready to defend the rights of Revolution fka Achiever Academy to compete for the right to be the team coming out of the Minnesota district to play for the National Championship. Why not let the Blades, Machine, Elite League etc. be part of the competition too if they decide that they want to put a team together to compete for the National Championship? This could be Tier 1 hockey capitalism at it's best right here in our homeland. Just think of all the promises that these teams could make to all the hard working moms and dads that they are the only program that will take little Johnny or Jill on to college and then the pros. Or, will MN Hockey decide is what's best for little Johnny and Jill and place them one of many High Performance Teams promising them that they can make it to the National Tournament. The real question is who will all the hard working parents be writing their checks out to-- MN Hockey or the private enterprises? If MN Hockey is writing the rules, I think we know. At the end of the day MN Hockey will collect lots of $ and shut the door on the Tier 1 debate. Mission accomplished for MN Hockey.

MNHockeyFan · Post by **MNHockeyFan** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 6:40 pm

AMERICAN wrote:This will be interesting. How will Minnesota Hockey play this out? Looks like they have already cut a deal with Shattuck and the Thoroughbred's.

The T-breds did not have the numbers to field a team this year. Are they planning to make a comeback?

And why wouldn't Minnesota Hockey include the Revolution?

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:23 pm

Minnesota Hockey states: ... "As part of the proposal, provisions will be made for in-season Tier 1 hockey to be allowed for Minnesota’s established legacy programs: Shattuck St. Mary’s and Thoroughbreds girls’ hockey."

I take this to mean that MN Hockey has cut a deal with these two programs as they define these two as "established legacy programs". I doubt MN Hockey would define Revolution as an "established legacy program" which leads me to believe they are out of luck unless MN Hockey broadens their definition of future Tier 1 teams. Might be a good time to buy stock in the Thoroughbreds.

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:09 pm

MNHockeyFan wrote:
AMERICAN wrote:This will be interesting. How will Minnesota Hockey play this out? Looks like they have already cut a deal with Shattuck and the Thoroughbred's.
The T-breds did not have the numbers to field a team this year. Are they planning to make a comeback?

And why wouldn't Minnesota Hockey include the Revolution?

WOW!

It is very interesting why MN hockey wants to keep a brand alive for Tier 1 that did not field a team this year and struggled to be competitive at all in previous few years in Tier 1 and would try and extinguish a current Tier 1 program that currently has a U19 ranked 11th in the nation out of 57 teams and a U16 team ranked 14th out of 50. Revolution has been impressive in its 1st Tier 1 season. Does MN hockey want BE back in the MSHSL?? I would think not... Hmmmmm. Guess they figure they can push BE around since on a "contingent" Tier 1 agreement and know they would end up in court forever over trying to strong arm SSM or any long time Tier 1 brand in the State so they even throw the possible future of T-breds a bone..

The Tier 1 model MN hockey is choosing as frame work to represent the State of hockey is flawed for many reasons and will handicap MN elite players...
8 teams per classification will be a extremely watered down version of MN elite hockey even is you get very high participation rate. MN girls have proven through the Whitecaps and Icecats that they can compete and win tournaments nationally if governing bodies of cronnies stay the hell out of the way and let girls play where they want to play like the rest of Tier 1 nation. MN has the greatest pool of talent in the Nation but if MN hockey wants to treat Tier 1 in MN like the MSHSL and have 8 sections and equal representation per section like the MSHSL Tournament then they will never represent well! Oh by the way if you play for one of the 8 MN Tier 1 teams forget about any participation in any other game, tournament, league or team practice of any kind other than with your Tier 1 team during the the Tier 1 season per USA hockey rules. Why would any Whitecap or Icecat want to be involved!?? To go get your butt kicked at NAHA on MN tier 1 team Section 8??? Oh and forget Elite league as you know it! Ridiculous concept but an obvious attempt to control a hockey player from the age of 13+ and tell them where to play and who to pay!!

This format as described will never happen!
MN Hockey get your Attorneys ready!!!

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:26 pm

AMERICAN wrote:Minnesota Hockey states: ... "As part of the proposal, provisions will be made for in-season Tier 1 hockey to be allowed for Minnesota’s established legacy programs: Shattuck St. Mary’s and Thoroughbreds girls’ hockey."

I take this to mean that MN Hockey has cut a deal with these two programs as they define these two as "established legacy programs". I doubt MN Hockey would define Revolution as an "established legacy program" which leads me to believe they are out of luck unless MN Hockey broadens their definition of future Tier 1 teams. Might be a good time to buy stock in the Thoroughbreds.

Somebody already bought all the Stock in T-breds AMERICAN so don't you go worrying about BE players and your favorite coach if their attorneys don't "convince" MN Hockey that they made an error in judgement excluding them..
#7-1

AMERICAN · Post by **AMERICAN** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:56 pm

AAA Dad-- it's great to be reconnecting again. This time I'm sympathetic to your cause but if MN Hockey wants, they can take away your Tier 1 status as easily as they granted it. But, if they continue grant Tier 1 to Revolution then you must agree that they should grant it to other programs that want it too.

The problem is that the United States Congress has granted the power to USA Hockey Inc. in the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act . Whether people want to call USA Hockey, Inc a monoply or not it is the sole organization charged by the U.S. government to control amateur hockey in the U.S.A. USA Hockey grants upon application affiliate memberships to the states which then controls amateur hockey within the state. Here, MN Hockey has the power granted by USA Hockey to decide what's the best for all of us. The only remaining question is how MN Hockey will treat other organizations other than themselves, Shattuck and the Thoroughbreds. If MN Hockey doesn't give BE Tier 1 status good luck on that lawsuit. My opinion- you will lose. You'd have a better chance of getting Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act repealed.

AAA Dad · Post by **AAA Dad** » Wed Jan 28, 2015 10:07 pm

AMERICAN wrote:AAA Dad-- it's great to be reconnecting again. This time I'm sympathetic to your cause but if MN Hockey wants, they can take away your Tier 1 status as easily as they granted it. But, if they continue grant Tier 1 to Revolution then you must agree that they should grant it to other programs that want it too.

The problem is that the United States Congress has granted the power to USA Hockey Inc. in the Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act . Whether people want to call USA Hockey, Inc a monoply or not it is the sole organization charged by the U.S. government to control amateur hockey in the U.S.A. USA Hockey grants upon application affiliate memberships to the states which then controls amateur hockey within the state. Here, MN Hockey has the power granted by USA Hockey to decide what's the best for all of us. The only remaining question is how MN Hockey will treat other organizations other than themselves, Shattuck and the Thoroughbreds. If MN Hockey doesn't give BE Tier 1 status good luck on that lawsuit. My opinion- you will lose. You'd have a better chance of getting Ted Stevens Olympic and Amateur Sports Act repealed.

You just worry about your beloved Blades of Glory...
There is a lot there to keep you busy!

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 7:52 am

MN Hoc can do whatever they want. Rev is stuck. As said on another board. It would be like a mens team suing the NHL to let them in.

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:02 am

AAA Dad wrote:
AMERICAN wrote:Minnesota Hockey states: ... "As part of the proposal, provisions will be made for in-season Tier 1 hockey to be allowed for Minnesota’s established legacy programs: Shattuck St. Mary’s and Thoroughbreds girls’ hockey."

I take this to mean that MN Hockey has cut a deal with these two programs as they define these two as "established legacy programs". I doubt MN Hockey would define Revolution as an "established legacy program" which leads me to believe they are out of luck unless MN Hockey broadens their definition of future Tier 1 teams. Might be a good time to buy stock in the Thoroughbreds.
Somebody already bought all the Stock in T-breds AMERICAN so don't you go worrying about BE players and your favorite coach if their attorneys don't "convince" MN Hockey that they made an error in judgement excluding them..
#7-1

Nobody bought any stock, of which there is not any, in the Thoroughbreds. I work with a group trying to do just that, but the actual chain of ownership is unclear and their financial status is as well. The Revolution tried to purchase them unsuccessfully before. Also anyone is free to run a tier 1 program where ever they would like, Minnesota does not have to bless everything. Where did you get your information from?

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:15 am

Coachk wrote:
AAA Dad wrote:
AMERICAN wrote:Minnesota Hockey states: ... "As part of the proposal, provisions will be made for in-season Tier 1 hockey to be allowed for Minnesota’s established legacy programs: Shattuck St. Mary’s and Thoroughbreds girls’ hockey."

I take this to mean that MN Hockey has cut a deal with these two programs as they define these two as "established legacy programs". I doubt MN Hockey would define Revolution as an "established legacy program" which leads me to believe they are out of luck unless MN Hockey broadens their definition of future Tier 1 teams. Might be a good time to buy stock in the Thoroughbreds.
Somebody already bought all the Stock in T-breds AMERICAN so don't you go worrying about BE players and your favorite coach if their attorneys don't "convince" MN Hockey that they made an error in judgement excluding them..
#7-1
Nobody bought any stock, of which there is not any, in the Thoroughbreds. I work with a group trying to do just that, but the actual chain of ownership is unclear and their financial status is as well. The Revolution tried to purchase them unsuccessfully before. Also anyone is free to run a tier 1 program where ever they would like, Minnesota does not have to bless everything. Where did you get your information from?

You can't play Tier 1 unless MN Hockey grants you that status. This has been well known for a long time.

greybeard58 · Post by **greybeard58** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 8:53 am

If you want to compete against USA Hockey registered teams you will need to the permission of the USA Hockey affiliate which in this case is Mn Hockey. For the 2014-15 season Mn Hockey did not have a written policy for Tier I programs and would have lost in court if teams were denied. Now that Mn Hockey with USA Hockey approval has a very specific Tier I policy as to what will be sanctioned as Tier I for the USA Hockey affiliate Minnesota Hockey.
Good Luck in court

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:32 am

greybeard58 wrote:If you want to compete against USA Hockey registered teams you will need to the permission of the USA Hockey affiliate which in this case is Mn Hockey. For the 2014-15 season Mn Hockey did not have a written policy for Tier I programs and would have lost in court if teams were denied. Now that Mn Hockey with USA Hockey approval has a very specific Tier I policy as to what will be sanctioned as Tier I for the USA Hockey affiliate Minnesota Hockey.
Good Luck in court

Unless of course the team plays against only Canadian teams of which they do not need MN hockeys blessing. Plenty of teams to play, new destination for some of the teams from Canada. Airport hub for players to gather from across the nation.

faceisoff · Post by **faceisoff** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:04 am

Does Revolution have the same Attorneys on retainer as last year, because that didn't work out so well for them...they didn't even know where their clients lived!

More angst for AAA DAD....

old goalie85 · Post by **old goalie85** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:23 am

Faceisoff - Top ten name.

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:10 pm

"You can't play Tier 1 unless MN Hockey grants you that status. "

Wrong,
Mn Ice cats
jr whitecaps
elite teams
blades
machine
os
velocity
blaze

All played in tier 1 tourneys
none of these are tier 1
and they will continue to play NAHA,
STONEY CREEK,CAN-AM, 2NATIONS TOURNEYS

36Guy · Post by **36Guy** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:40 pm

This is the model for the boys not the girls next year!

u12dad · Post by **u12dad** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:41 pm

All these teams are given fall conditional Tier 1 sanctioning from USA hockey. So it is correct, you must have sanctioning from USA Hockey.

"You can't play Tier 1 unless MN Hockey grants you that status. "

Wrong,
Mn Ice cats
jr whitecaps
elite teams
blades
machine
os
velocity
blaze

All played in tier 1 tourneys
none of these are tier 1
and they will continue to play NAHA,
STONEY CREEK,CAN-AM, 2NATIONS TOURNEYS[/quote]

Coachk · Post by **Coachk** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:56 pm

nu2hockey wrote:"You can't play Tier 1 unless MN Hockey grants you that status. "

Wrong,
Mn Ice cats
jr whitecaps
elite teams
blades
machine
os
velocity
blaze

All played in tier 1 tourneys

You are correct, but you they could not play USA sectioned teams during the high school season or qualify for regionals or nationals.

none of these are tier 1
and they will continue to play NAHA,
STONEY CREEK,CAN-AM, 2NATIONS TOURNEYS

nu2hockey · Post by **nu2hockey** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:23 pm

They can play during high school season,

BUT, the MSHS League has a rule that forbids practice or games with anyone other than their HS team(during 17wk season)...Their eligibility would be forfeit for Varsity competition...

FUNNY, how an exemption exists for a very chosen few who can leave their team, practice and play in an international competition(great if chosen) ,but if anyone else wanted private practice to improve, or do special rehab practice
cannot.

Froggy Richards · Post by **Froggy Richards** » Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:20 pm

nu2hockey wrote:They can play during high school season,

BUT, the MSHS League has a rule that forbids practice or games with anyone other than their HS team(during 17wk season)...Their eligibility would be forfeit for Varsity competition...

FUNNY, how an exemption exists for a very chosen few who can leave their team, practice and play in an international competition(great if chosen) ,but if anyone else wanted private practice to improve, or do special rehab practice
cannot.

I would have to see that rule to believe that you can't get private practice on the side during High School Season. Are you saying that a goalie can't get private training from a goalie instructor during the season? Can you reference that? I know times change but I played Town Team Baseball during the High School season in the 90's. And that's an actual league and team. Is this a new, special rule for hockey only?