2015 State tournament Seedings and Discussion

[Sparlimb]

Seedings:

Class A

Hutchinson (16-10-1) v #2 Blake (24-4-0)
Alexandria (16-9-1) v #3 Red Wing (23-4-1)

New Ulm (19-8-0) v #1 Thief River Falls (21-1-3)
#5 Hibbing/Chisholm (12-12-2) v #4 South St. Paul (15-11-2)


Class AA

Eastview (14-12-2) v #2 Hill-Murray (22-5-0)
Buffalo (21-7-0) v #3 Edina (20-7-1)

Andover (14-12-2) v #1 Minnetonka (21-6-0)
#5 Blaine (20-7-1) v #4 Lakeville South (23-4-1)





AA Records vs Tourney Teams:
Eastview 0-2
Hill-Murray 2-1
Buffalo 0-2
Edina 1-2
Andover 0-4
Minnetonka 3-1
Blaine 3-0
Lakeville South 2-1

[sinbin]

Spar, you're just placing in your guesses of 6-8 "seeds" as placeholders, even though these are still random assignments, right?

[Lace'emUp]

Spar, you're just placing in your guesses of 6-8 "seeds" as placeholders, even though these are still random assignments, right?

Nope, those are the seeds. The MSHSL has them posted.
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/showXMLbrack ... acket=6833

For AA, the top 6 seeds fall in line with the LPH rankings, then Eastview and Andover were random (both had the same record - could've gone either way). One other thing to note, only three #1 section seeds made State. Last year, seven make it. I wonder if there's ever been a year where more #1 section seeds have been knocked out.

For A, after the top 3, the seeds more followed in-line with KRACH and not LPH.

[sinbin]

Spar, you're just placing in your guesses of 6-8 "seeds" as placeholders, even though these are still random assignments, right?

Nope, those are the seeds. The MSHSL has them posted.
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/showXMLbrack ... acket=6833

For AA, the top 6 seeds fall in line with the LPH rankings, then Eastview and Andover were random (both had the same record - could've gone either way). One other thing to note, only three #1 section seeds made State. Last year, seven make it. I wonder if there's ever been a year where more #1 section seeds have been knocked out.

For A, after the top 3, the seeds more followed in-line with KRACH and not LPH.

OK, gotcha, but I was referring to only the top 5 being seeded and then 6-8 are random draws. This is still the system in place today?

[MNHockeyFan]

OK, gotcha, but I was referring to only the top 5 being seeded and then 6-8 are random draws. This is still the system in place today?

Correct!

Also note that our "2015 State Tournament - Pick the Winners Challenge!" is now a "Sticky", replacing the 2014 tourney contest that was up there since February 2014!

[Sparlimb]

A very interesting semi-final would be Blaine v Tonka as Blaine beat them last game of the year this year. Blaine with a 3-0 record versus tourney teams is impressive (other two wins were Andover). Living in Blaine and being an HM grad, I have two teams to cheer for this year...

[Sparlimb]

Spar, you're just placing in your guesses of 6-8 "seeds" as placeholders, even though these are still random assignments, right?

Nope, those are the seeds. The MSHSL has them posted.
http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/showXMLbrack ... acket=6833

For AA, the top 6 seeds fall in line with the LPH rankings, then Eastview and Andover were random (both had the same record - could've gone either way). One other thing to note, only three #1 section seeds made State. Last year, seven make it. I wonder if there's ever been a year where more #1 section seeds have been knocked out.

For A, after the top 3, the seeds more followed in-line with KRACH and not LPH.

60 combined losses by the AA field. I have to guess that's a record.

59 by the A field.

[Sparlimb]

2014 Class A - 67 Losses
2014 Class AA - 52 Losses

2013 Class A - 59 Losses
2013 Class AA - 51 Losses

2012 Class A - 66 Losses
2012 Class AA - 38 Losses

Impressive group in 2012, although those 8 teams had 20 ties as well.

[Jiblet]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

[Gov78]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

Who says the rankings are correct?

[Froggy Richards]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

Rankings are only for fun and discussion during the year. Once the Sections start you have to win. Your team just didn't deserve it this year.

[Sparlimb]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

Say you took those 8 teams, and played to a winner. How is that going to be different then what is about to happen? Blaine, in section 5, just beat Tonka and wouldn't surprise anyone by handling Lakeville South. Heck if they beat Tonka again, they could be right in the finals. Buffalo just beat a really good Roseau team. So who knows if they can upset. The point here being only one team ends the year undefeated in the post season. That's going to be true if its the 8 teams you picked or the 8 teams that earned a birth by beating whomever was put in front of them during sections. It's exciting for all 8 teams to be there, but especially for the teams not expected. Let them make lifelong memories...

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

Considering how many of those final games went into overtime, I'd have to argue that most of the section representees in both A and AA have proven that year long season records don't mean as much as 4 months of hard work and one, two, or three of their best games all year to get to the X. Are there better teams than some of these lower seeds that may never play in the tourney? Absolutely. Who deserve to be there this year? Depends who you ask! But those teams also have a lot of girls who will have more than a single chance to play at state, plus have a clear hockey future after their MSHSL days are over. If these teams don't have a chance in hell in post season and aren't looking at college puck, do you think player numbers fall off and certain programs fade away?

[imnotwearingacup]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

Who says the rankings are correct?

I guess I can't pick sides on the system being broken, their are interesting arguments for both sides. Could you please elaborate on the rankings? I think they are more than just a couple kids writing in Crayon. Please elaborate on which team in the top 15 that did not make it to state should not have been ranked in the top 15?

1 EDEN PRAIRIE (7)
2 Minnetonka (3)
3 Maple Grove
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 Wayzata
7 Lakeville North
8 Lakeville South
9 Roseau
10 Cretin-Derham Hall
11 Centennial
12 Chaska/Chanhassen
13 Hopkins
14 Dodge County
15 Elk River/Zimmerman

As adults one thing that makes us smarter is that the end result is not always a product of ability, but perhaps a path of least resistance.

[MN_Bowhunter]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

HAHAHA. Thanks for the belly laugh!

Win your ____ing section! Then you go to state. Did Your Favorite Team Choke? Watch on TV and whine on the internet. If you can't get out of your section, you don't belong at state.

Suck it up, Buttercup.

[goaline]

Only 4 of top 15 teams in state tourney, 2 unranked teams. Sounds like a watered down tourney. Too bad 4 of the section finals eliminated a top 10 team. State tourney should have been teams in finals for sectio 1,2,4 and 6. All 8 teams were in top 10. This is why the section set up is a joke and should be changed.

Who says the rankings are correct?

I guess I can't pick sides on the system being broken, their are interesting arguments for both sides. Could you please elaborate on the rankings? I think they are more than just a couple kids writing in Crayon. Please elaborate on which team in the top 15 that did not make it to state should not have been ranked in the top 15?

1 EDEN PRAIRIE (7)
2 Minnetonka (3)
3 Maple Grove
4 Hill-Murray
5 Edina
6 Wayzata
7 Lakeville North
8 Lakeville South
9 Roseau
10 Cretin-Derham Hall
11 Centennial
12 Chaska/Chanhassen
13 Hopkins
14 Dodge County
15 Elk River/Zimmerman

As adults one thing that makes us smarter is that the end result is not always a product of ability, but perhaps a path of least resistance.

Each year the arguments get doled out by a "new" group of parents who's sections are too tough, too geographically large, etc... Youth hockey sets up this disappointment with teams commonly losing and moving on to regions, state, etc... Geographic state tournaments are NEVER going away and so the high stakes section tournaments are best to be enjoyed and valued... I agree with the questions of rankings -- Roseau top 15 is beat by Buffalo, Elks top 15 are beat by Andover, Centennial top 15 beat by Blaine... These teams are deserving as they did not what the rankings told them to do, but what good teams do -- play your best hockey at the end of the season -- when it counts!

[Lace'emUp]

As a few have said on here already, the rankings make for nice conversation and comparison of programs during the season, but they really don't mean anything once sections start. But to speculate on the question of top 15, I'm sure Blaine and Buffalo will move up. Does Andover and Eastview deserve to be in the top 15? I say sure, why not. But lets take this a step further, do they deserve to be top 8 right now? Yes? No?Statistics say no. Reality says yes.

That being the case, should the top 15 look like this right now?
1. Minnetonka
2. Hill-Murray
3. Edina
4. Lakeville South
5. Blaine
6. Buffalo
7. Eastview
8. Andover
9. Eden Prairie
10. Maple Grove
11. Wayzata
12. Lakeville North
13. Roseau
14. Cretin-Derham Hall
15. Centennial

[Sparlimb]

As a few have said on here already, the rankings make for nice conversation and comparison of programs during the season, but they really don't mean anything once sections start. But to speculate on the question of top 15, I'm sure Blaine and Buffalo will move up. Does Andover and Eastview deserve to be in the top 15? I say sure, why not. But lets take this a step further, do they deserve to be top 8 right now? Yes? No?Statistics say no. Reality says yes.

That being the case, should the top 15 look like this right now?
1. Minnetonka
2. Hill-Murray
3. Edina
4. Lakeville South
5. Blaine
6. Buffalo
7. Eastview
8. Andover
9. Eden Prairie
10. Maple Grove
11. Wayzata
12. Lakeville North
13. Roseau
14. Cretin-Derham Hall
15. Centennial

Your confusing rankings with the way the playoffs work in Minnesota. The high school league doesn't care about rankings. They put teams in regions, give everyone the SAME chance to make the state tournament. Win your section, you get to go. If you don't win your section, then you weren't the best team in state. The current system is to find the #1 team by winning all post-season games. Do #1 seeds ever lose in the NCAA Basketball tournament? Of course they do. All that proves is they weren't the champions. Doesn't mean they weren't the 2nd best team in the country. Just means they didn't win it all. EP and MG certainly had outstanding years the girls should be proud of. In the end, they didn't win the games that mattered. That's just how it works.

[Lace'emUp]

As a few have said on here already, the rankings make for nice conversation and comparison of programs during the season, but they really don't mean anything once sections start. But to speculate on the question of top 15, I'm sure Blaine and Buffalo will move up. Does Andover and Eastview deserve to be in the top 15? I say sure, why not. But lets take this a step further, do they deserve to be top 8 right now? Yes? No?Statistics say no. Reality says yes.

That being the case, should the top 15 look like this right now?
1. Minnetonka
2. Hill-Murray
3. Edina
4. Lakeville South
5. Blaine
6. Buffalo
7. Eastview
8. Andover
9. Eden Prairie
10. Maple Grove
11. Wayzata
12. Lakeville North
13. Roseau
14. Cretin-Derham Hall
15. Centennial

Your confusing rankings with the way the playoffs work in Minnesota. The high school league doesn't care about rankings. They put teams in regions, give everyone the SAME chance to make the state tournament. Win your section, you get to go. If you don't win your section, then you weren't the best team in state. The current system is to find the #1 team by winning all post-season games. Do #1 seeds ever lose in the NCAA Basketball tournament? Of course they do. All that proves is they weren't the champions. Doesn't mean they weren't the 2nd best team in the country. Just means they didn't win it all. EP and MG certainly had outstanding years the girls should be proud of. In the end, they didn't win the games that mattered. That's just how it works.

Sorry for any confusion, but I do understand how the playoffs work. That's why I mentioned that rankings don't mean anything once sections start. I was only commenting on the previous question regarding who should be in the top 15 right now as a conversation piece (if it actually mattered - which it doesn't). The only teams that matter right now are the first 8 that I listed, and good luck to all of them - have fun ladies!

[royals dad]

As a few have said on here already, the rankings make for nice conversation and comparison of programs during the season, but they really don't mean anything once sections start. But to speculate on the question of top 15, I'm sure Blaine and Buffalo will move up. Does Andover and Eastview deserve to be in the top 15? I say sure, why not. But lets take this a step further, do they deserve to be top 8 right now? Yes? No?Statistics say no. Reality says yes.

That being the case, should the top 15 look like this right now?
1. Minnetonka
2. Hill-Murray
3. Edina
4. Lakeville South
5. Blaine
6. Buffalo
7. Eastview
8. Andover
9. Eden Prairie
10. Maple Grove
11. Wayzata
12. Lakeville North
13. Roseau
14. Cretin-Derham Hall
15. Centennial

Your confusing rankings with the way the playoffs work in Minnesota. The high school league doesn't care about rankings. They put teams in regions, give everyone the SAME chance to make the state tournament. Win your section, you get to go. If you don't win your section, then you weren't the best team in state. The current system is to find the #1 team by winning all post-season games. Do #1 seeds ever lose in the NCAA Basketball tournament? Of course they do. All that proves is they weren't the champions. Doesn't mean they weren't the 2nd best team in the country. Just means they didn't win it all. EP and MG certainly had outstanding years the girls should be proud of. In the end, they didn't win the games that mattered. That's just how it works.

Sorry for any confusion, but I do understand how the playoffs work. That's why I mentioned that rankings don't mean anything once sections start. I was only commenting on the previous question regarding who should be in the top 15 right now as a conversation piece (if it actually mattered - which it doesn't). The only teams that matter right now are the first 8 that I listed, and good luck to all of them - have fun ladies!

Your not comparing, your mixing apples and oranges. Rankings try to estimate the strength of the teams, that is not what the MSHL playoffs are doing. In fact not really sure what they are intended to do, we are still using the geographic system but the landscape has changed so now the far reaches of the AA state tournament go almost an hours drive from the X. Look at the tourney results since seeding started, the teams that come from outside of the rankings dont advance at the tourney. If you want to make it geographic fine, move teams like Buffalo, Andover, Elk River, Lakeville into metro sections. If that means some sections have 20 teams and some have 8 fine, send 4 metro teams to the state tourney along with one from each corner of the state. If you dont want to do that then reseed for section finals and make it a 16 team tourney with 8 that move to the x.

[goaline]

Sorry for any confusion, but I do understand how the playoffs work. That's why I mentioned that rankings don't mean anything once sections start. I was only commenting on the previous question regarding who should be in the top 15 right now as a conversation piece (if it actually mattered - which it doesn't). The only teams that matter right now are the first 8 that I listed, and good luck to all of them - have fun ladies![/quote]

Your not comparing, your mixing apples and oranges. Rankings try to estimate the strength of the teams, that is not what the MSHL playoffs are doing. In fact not really sure what they are intended to do, we are still using the geographic system but the landscape has changed so now the far reaches of the AA state tournament go almost an hours drive from the X. Look at the tourney results since seeding started, the teams that come from outside of the rankings dont advance at the tourney. If you want to make it geographic fine, move teams like Buffalo, Andover, Elk River, Lakeville into metro sections. If that means some sections have 20 teams and some have 8 fine, send 4 metro teams to the state tourney along with one from each corner of the state. If you dont want to do that then reseed for section finals and make it a 16 team tourney with 8 that move to the x.[/quote]

And how would this help your vaunted Woodbury team reach the tourney RoyalsDad? Rational self-interest?

[Otter]

And how would this help your vaunted Woodbury team reach the tourney RoyalsDad? Rational self-interest?

Sorry to be a buttinski, but I just had to interject because it's pretty funny.
You have the wrong Royals!

[royals dad]

Sorry for any confusion, but I do understand how the playoffs work. That's why I mentioned that rankings don't mean anything once sections start. I was only commenting on the previous question regarding who should be in the top 15 right now as a conversation piece (if it actually mattered - which it doesn't). The only teams that matter right now are the first 8 that I listed, and good luck to all of them - have fun ladies!

Your not comparing, your mixing apples and oranges. Rankings try to estimate the strength of the teams, that is not what the MSHL playoffs are doing. In fact not really sure what they are intended to do, we are still using the geographic system but the landscape has changed so now the far reaches of the AA state tournament go almost an hours drive from the X. Look at the tourney results since seeding started, the teams that come from outside of the rankings dont advance at the tourney. If you want to make it geographic fine, move teams like Buffalo, Andover, Elk River, Lakeville into metro sections. If that means some sections have 20 teams and some have 8 fine, send 4 metro teams to the state tourney along with one from each corner of the state. If you dont want to do that then reseed for section finals and make it a 16 team tourney with 8 that move to the x.[/quote]

And how would this help your vaunted Woodbury team reach the tourney RoyalsDad? Rational self-interest?[/quote]

My oldest is out of HS and my youngest isnt there yet. It isnt about my kids team, I had the same opinion way back when it was Stillwater, Roseville, and White Bear Lake log jammed in section 4. Some great section finals that I always thought should have been state finals. This year could have been LS vs LN, EP vs Edina, Tonka vs Wayzata, Hill vs CDH for round one at the X (exchange any of the above with teams like MG, Rams, or a real cinderella). My argument has simply always been that if you want to showcase the sport that would be the way to do it. You have a 2 class system already to make opportunity available for small schools. If you want to make it a true geographic tourney then do it, make the sections one corner of the metro and one corner of the state. If the southwest metro has 20 teams and the southwest out-state has 3 so be it. The current system doesn't get the best teams or get anyone outside of the old 651/612 area codes in.

I will be at the X again this year, have been going as long as I have had a daughter who skated. Pretty sure Cosettas will be better than I remembered it (and I will wonder why I don't go more often), student sections will be big in the day session (when students can get out of school), very few youth teams will be there, and day one games will have about as much drama as the NFL preseason. Maybe this year will finally be different but it has been the same script every year since we watched North St Paul win it in a packed Ridder (best girls HS atmosphere ever IMO).

While they are at it if they fix it, do a student population modifier of x3 for private schools in the determination of A and AA at the same time. Both classes would be better with Blake and Breck in AA.

[alcloseshaver]

This is such a joke, Countless good teams in many sports have not had the opportunity to participate in a state tournament. It would be nice but this his not how it works and I'm sure no ones lives are scarred or will be defined by not making it. Please enjoy the tournament.

[D6 Girls Fan]

This is such a joke, Countless good teams in many sports have not had the opportunity to participate in a state tournament. It would be nice but this his not how it works and I'm sure no ones lives are scarred or will be defined by not making it. Please enjoy the tournament.

You're right, nobody's life is scarred either way.

By that argument, it doesn't matter that much. But for some people it does.

And to say we should just enjoy the tournament, it'd be easier to enjoy if the best 8 teams were in it EVERY YEAR. And it doesn't work that way now. It never really does work that way, which is why people make suggestions to maybe make it better. It's too late for my daughter now, but I would hope that someone somehwhere decides to fix it someday.