Minnesota vs. Nation

Spudhky02
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:22 am

Minnesota vs. Nation

Post by Spudhky02 » Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:22 am

Just wondering what peoples veiws are on MN high school hockey compared to the rest of the country? We all know that MN is better than ND and far better than SD so why is MN so much better than their teams? And how is MN in the grand scheme of things? Can we say the best teams in MN are the best teams in the country? <p></p><i></i>

grizz99
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:39 am

minn vs. nation

Post by grizz99 » Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:39 am

minn definitely has the best quality of overall high school hockey, but some of the eastern u.s. top prep teams would compete here. don't think they could ever win the AA tourney, somebody would knock em out. don't care what anybody out east says, none of their teams would ever beat the 93' Jefferson team. would have to say the top minn. team is probably the team to beat nation wide. <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
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Re: Minnesota vs. Nation

Post by petey1321 » Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:43 am

The best HS teams in the nation? Yes, we can say that. There may be the occaisional Boston or Michigan team that could run with the big boys here, but by and large, MN high school hockey teams are better than the HS teams anywhere else. Of course, this is in part due to the fact that other parts of the country tend to play Midgets or have all of their best kids play Juniors. I'd say Minnesota has more talented (D-1, I guess will be the benchmark I'll use) players than any other state, but if you compare it to the entire nation, MN does not have a majority. <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 12:50 am

Kansas has the best HS hockey

Post by Videoscout » Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:02 pm

Michigan and Massachussetts would beg to differ but I agree that Minnesota has the most depth so far. That will change soon as both of the aforementioned states have bigger populations and it will be only a matter of time. Take a look at team USA ... how many Minnesotans are on the roster besides Phil Housley ... I'm not sure ... someone enlighten me.<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 12:50 am

Answers

Post by Videoscout » Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:22 pm

Don't bother ... I decided to research this myself.<br>Just as I thought ... just one guy from Minnesota.<br>The days of Minnesota dominance are coming to an end (as much as I hate to admit it).<br><br><br>GOALTENDERS <br>1 Mike Dunham 6-3 200 L 29 Johnson City, NY<br>30 Tom Barrasso 6-3 210 L 36 Boston, MA<br>35 Mike Richter 5-11 185 L 35 Abington, PA<br>DEFENSEMEN <br>24 Chris Chelios 6-1 190 R 39 Chicago, IL<br>6 Phil Housley 5-10 185 L 37 S. St. Paul, MN <br>2 Brian Leetch 6-1 200 L 33 Corpus Christi, TX <br>33 Aaron Miller 6-2 200 R 30 Buffalo, NY <br>5 Tom Poti 6-2 215 L 24 Worcester, MA <br>3 Brian Rafalski 5-9 200 R 28 Dearborn, MI <br>20 Gary Suter 6-0 215 L 37 Madison, WI <br>FORWARDS <br>11 Tony Amonte 6-0 200 L 31 Hingham, MA <br>28 Adam Deadmarsh 6-0 195 R 26 Trail, B.C. <br>18 Chris Drury 5-10 185 R 25 Trumbull, CT <br>13 Bill Guerin 6-2 210 R 31 Wilbraham, MA <br>16 Brett Hull 5-10 203 R 37 Belleville, ONT <br>10 John LeClair 6-3 228 L 32 St. Albans, VT <br>9 Mike Modano 6-3 205 L 31 Livonia, MI <br>97 Jeremy Roenick 6-0 205 R 31 Boston, MA <br>12 Brian Rolston 6-2 205 L 28 Flint, MI <br>7 Keith Tkachuk 6-2 225 L 29 Melrose, MA <br>39 Doug Weight 5-11 200 L 30 Warren, MI <br>61 Mike York 5-10 185 R 23 Waterford, MI <br>48 Scott Young 6-1 200 R 34 Clinton, MA <br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> -"Just the facts, maam!" (Joe Friday)<br> <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
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Re: Answers

Post by petey1321 » Sun Feb 24, 2002 3:21 pm

Of course, what you have to ask is how many of those players played high school hockey. The question was not which state has more elite players, but which high school league is better. I know Modano played for Little Caesars, and I imagine there are many similar situations for the other guys. Also, the US team is very, very old, and when this crop is gone, it may be a different story. <p></p><i></i>

Reggie Dunlap
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Re: Answers

Post by Reggie Dunlap » Sun Feb 24, 2002 6:51 pm

It's and apples and oranges comparison.<br><br>* MN has the best HS hockey.. period.<br>* Michigan has the best 'AAA' Midget hockey... period.<br>* New England traditionally has the best prep hockey... period (Shattuck is the exception)<br>* Players in most other states have to find a place to play Juniors if they want to continue to play.<br><br>Unfortunately, since the rules governing all of these leagues vary (sometimes considerably), it's almost impossible to judge which is "better". <br><br>It would be fun to have some sort of playoff system to determine which is best though. <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
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Where are the kids from MN?

Post by Videoscout » Sun Feb 24, 2002 7:10 pm

Maybe the question should be rephrased; Which State has the best group of 16, 17 & 18 year-old players? Bottom line is everything will eventually filter to the elite players regardless of age.<br><br>Yes... we had a lot of older players, but I find it hard to believe U.S. born citizens such as Matt Cullen, Mike Crowley, Jason Blake or even Jamie Langenbrunner would have been able to handle playing against All-Star teams from Canada and Russia at this point in time.<br><br>You never stop learning as a player or a coach in the game of hockey. These "older" guys have a vast amount of experience that will take these younger pups years to acquire. These older guys have been playing at a 'world class' level for quite some time. Guys like Blake and Crowley would get knocked into next season (at this point in their career) and they are all too early in their careers to have concussion after concussion threaten their livlihoods.<br><br>But this is not to say that those young men from Minnesota will not someday be spotted across the roster of future Olympic teams. And I think they will. It's not their time yet.<br><br>It seems obvious to me that Minnesota is lagging behind at the 16, 17 & 18 year-old sector. They simply don't play enough games at the High School level as their peers out East and in Michigan.<br><br>There are other factions involved ... but I won't go there.<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Dean Younblood
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 7:49 pm

Re: Answers

Post by Dean Younblood » Sun Feb 24, 2002 7:49 pm

video to your quote: "the days of Minnesota dominance are coming to an end (as much as I hate to admit it)." Do you think they are coming to an end or did come to an end awhile back but no one noticed it? I think it did come to an end awhile back as you can see by the Olympic roster you put up. But I think the Minnesotan dominance if you are talking about how many Minnesotan’s will be in the next Olympics will be going up over next few years. I'm guessing that over the next few Olympics you while see the number of Minnesotans on the team almost triple every year of the Olympics. Minnesota players that I can see having a chance for the next Olympics are Dave Tanabe White Bear Lake- Hill Murray- Ann Arbor, Ben Clymer Bloomington, Bret Hedican North St. Paul, Craig Johnson St. Paul- Hill Murray, Toby Peterson Bloomington, Sean Hill Duluth. And maybe some kids that are not even in the NHL yet. (This was under the topic Olympic Hockey). And then the Olympics after that you while start to see the some kids that are not even in college and some of the younger college kids from right now.(this group of upcoming kids from the Junior's in high school to the freshman to sophomore’s in college will probably (my guess) be the best group of kids ever from Minnesota!) So in my opinion 12 years down the line you are going to see a Olympic team of primarily Minnesotans.<br> But if we are just talking about Minnesota VS. Nation in high school hockey. No other state is even near were Minnesota is, but that can mostly be explained by what Reggie kind of said ,other state's do not play as much High school hockey. But even if other state’s did play as much high school hockey right now we would still be much better then them especially if all Minnesota kids stayed and played high school hockey instead of going Juniors, just take a look at some of those junior A team rosters and see how many of those kids are Minnesotans. ( We are getting even more dominant ) <p></p><i></i>

ifallsfan
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Re: Where are the kids from MN?

Post by ifallsfan » Sun Feb 24, 2002 8:06 pm

As someone from Michigan who saw some high school games this past weekend here in Michigan and a Junior B game, I can tell you that I think hands down Minnesota hockey is better. The four teams I saw in the high school ranks couldn't have beaten Mesabi East. And I'm serious. I am from a part of Michigan though that isn't the hotbed for hockey talent. These teams were not even close to the teams I watched in Northern Minnesota back in the 90s. As far as the Junior B game I saw, these kids were between 17 and 20 I think and were obviously much better than the HS players and were from all over the place, not just Michigan. These two teams would have been clobbered by the better teams in MN as well. Teams are just more numerous in Minnesota and I think they start younger in Minnesota. I remember watching kids between periods during IFalls games that looked like they were hardly old enough to walk let alone skate. I was amazed to watch a little kid go end to end and score a goal at that age. Anyway, I don't think there is any comparison in terms of HS Hockey from MN to MI, but there are probably travel teams that are much better. There just isn't enough players to go around to field a bunch of good teams like MN. The better kids here go play Juniors or get on a travelling team I think.<br><br>By the way, I have a question. Is there someone out there that can point me to a website or provide me with info on all the different factions and ages/levels of hockey. I love hockey and watched alot in MN, but not being a kid who grew up playing hockey, I don't understand all the various levels. From Mites to Midgets and all in between, what are the levels. Are these teams associated with there cities or are they something else. What is AAA hockey? I saw a team at the rink here in my town this past weekend called the AAA Chicago Missiles, who are they? Why do kids leave there HS teams and go play for Juniors? How old do you have to be to play Juniors A and B. Sorry for all the questions, just trying to educate myself. <p></p><i></i>

petey1321
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Feb 05, 2002 2:10 am

Re: Where are the kids from MN?

Post by petey1321 » Sun Feb 24, 2002 9:51 pm

The best thing to do, I think, would be to go to <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.usahockey.com.">www.usahockey.com.</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> I haven't been there in awhile, but they used to have a section explaining how the age groups are determined. <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
Posts: 172
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Rock & Roll

Post by Videoscout » Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:21 pm

Good advice petey .... that's where I got the Olympic roster information from.<br><br>Boy ... I sure hope Minnesota doesn't lose its' stranglehold on HS hockey dominance. But we have got to have more players from Minnesota on that Olympic team, professional or amateur.<br><br>We can argue that we didn't win the gold against Canada because they didn't have enough Minnesotans on the roster (<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... /laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> -"yeah right!")<br><br>Seriously .... is it that we went through a drought? Maybe that is it. You really have to be a tough son-of-a-bitch, talented goal-scorer with blazing speed to make the NHL all-star team ... and we just might have those qualities in some of our kids. <br><br>Someone mentioned Sean Hill as a future Olympian ... I believe he played in Nagano or prior (not sure which Olympics) ... but I remember watching him in college when he played for Wisconsin. He was one tough player. Solid hitter. Hit like a ton of bricks. I know he was in the NHL but he must be in his mid 30's by now? Or is he younger ... anyone know?<br><br>I was very impressed with his play.<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

Dean Younblood
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 7:49 pm

Re: Rock & Roll

Post by Dean Younblood » Sun Feb 24, 2002 11:38 pm

Sean Hill was born February 14,1970 <p></p><i></i>

LesterPark
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:54 am

Re: Rock & Roll

Post by LesterPark » Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:54 am

Sean Hill's dad, Bob Hill, was a defenceman on those great Duluth East teams in the early 60's. He was also Minnesota-Duluth's first All-American in 1966. Sean's mother competed and taught figure skating for many years. Noel Hill, Sean's brother, was also a fine player at Duluth East. Go Hounds! <p></p><i></i>

capt mudshark
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2002 2:44 pm

Re: Minnesota vs. Nation

Post by capt mudshark » Mon Feb 25, 2002 11:58 am

Who has won the Chicago Showcase the last five years? Minnesota,and that's with players who do not already have a college committment and are only seniors allowed on the Minnesota roster,while everyone else sends their best. <p></p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
Site Admin
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MN v MA v MI v NY

Post by Mitch Hawker » Mon Feb 25, 2002 12:16 pm

Minnesota is the state that still produces the most D1 college players, edging Mass for that honor with over twice as many as are from Michigan, and as of last year NY had edged MI for 3rd.<br><br> VERY few of the Michigan born players that play Division 1 played high school hockey, and fewer yet played high school through their senior year. However, high school hockey is still growing in Michigan and more of the better kids are choosing to play for their school now than in the past.<br><br> Mass is much more comparable to Minnesota, although the high schools do lose a lot of players to the prep schools.<br><br> For some reason, both MA and MI produce more of the elite NHL type (although MN still leads MI in overall number of NHL players). My guess is that is because more players move to higher and faster levels of hockey at a younger age there (Prep School, Midget AAA, Junior A, Major Junior).<br><br>Overall, I would say that Minnesota's system is by far the best. The cost to families is far less than the Midget AAA (up to $12,000/year) or prep school (up to twice that amount) routes that many of the best players in other states must take to get to NCAA Division 1, and the Minnesota kids get the joy of competing for their school, playing with and in front of their childhood friends and classmates.<br><br>Reaching the NCAA Division 1 level should be the performance yardstick to measure the overall success of the different systems, because probably (guessing here) at least 30 times as many players can make it to that level and earn a college degree as compared to the relative few that will make it to the NHL.<br><br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
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Elite players

Post by Videoscout » Mon Feb 25, 2002 2:36 pm

How is a player's career defined?<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> -"You're as good as your last game!"<br><br>Is this true? <p></p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
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Re: Elite players

Post by Mitch Hawker » Mon Feb 25, 2002 3:58 pm

If you are asking about my definition of an "elite NHL player", I mean all-star or current US Olympic team player.<br><br>We can always argue about which players should have been on such teams but the fact remains that there were 6 MA players and 5 MI players on the US Olympic team and only 1 MN player. <br><br>The 1998 Olympic team and 1996 World Cup teams were similarly constituted, with Joel Otto the only (? - or one of very few) Minnesotans.<br><br>Mudshark, you are somewhat misinformed about the Chicago Showcase. <br><br>Many Mass/New England players choose not to attend. They have their own high school showcase out there (Hockey Night in Boston) that is much cheaper for them to attend. Most of Michigan's best players are not eligible for the Chicago Showcase as they do not play high school hockey. Even quite a number of Wisconsin players refused invites last year based on their Midget AAA before/after coach's erroneous advice.<br><br>Having said all that, winning the Chicago Showcase 5 years in a row is still a great accomplishment.<br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/umitchhawker.s ... e=EN>Mitch Hawker</A> at: 2/25/02 4:15:44 pm<br></i>

704set
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:57 pm

HS vs. Prep

Post by 704set » Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:57 pm

Many of the Mass. HS teams lose players to the prep schools. Many will transfer after their sophmore year. There are seven Mass. players on the Olympic team, counting goalie Tom Barrasso. Four of them went to prep schools (Poti, Amonte, Roenick, Young), one to the juniors (Guerin), one to public HS (Barrasso) and one to a Catholic HS (Tkachuk).<br><br>Question for MN. - are there many prep schools in MN that compete for the HS players as in the NE?<br><br>704set <p></p><i></i>

Spudhky02
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 1:22 am

Re: HS vs. Prep

Post by Spudhky02 » Mon Feb 25, 2002 8:15 pm

I dunno if we have ANY really prep schools?? I know the Tribune (mlps/st paul) puts out a preps plus section in sports but that regards HS sports. I would be interested!? <br>PS 704set...are you from mass?? <p></p><i></i>

Mitch Hawker
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Re: HS vs. Prep

Post by Mitch Hawker » Tue Feb 26, 2002 12:31 pm

Shattuck-St Mary's in Faribault is the only Minnesota school in the mold of the eastern prep schools, and a lot of their players actually come from outside of Minnesota. <br><br>Also, SSM now carrys only midget aged kids on their top team, so that team may be younger than a lot of high school teams as opposed to the eastern prep schools that add a year onto high school academics and athletics. <p></p><i></i>

704set
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Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:57 pm

Re: HS vs. Prep

Post by 704set » Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:40 pm

Spud,<br>Yes, I live between Boston and Providence, RI.<br><br>704set <p></p><i></i>

704set
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2002 7:57 pm

Re: HS vs. Prep

Post by 704set » Tue Feb 26, 2002 5:50 pm

One other comment about prep schools in NE. If you are a hockey player with any talent, you would be crazy not to jump to a prep school if given the opportunity.<br><br>First of all, the competition, and therefore the visiblity, is much better. The facilities, such as weight rooms and having your own rink, is second to none. And most importantly, you are going to graduate with a great education.<br><br>So what's a $25,000 tuition bill? Dad will pay for it.<br><br>704set <p></p><i></i>

Videoscout
Posts: 172
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2002 12:50 am

Holy Angels is 26-4-0 with half losses to Mass. and Rhode Is

Post by Videoscout » Sun Mar 10, 2002 5:03 pm

So Holy Angels proves to be the number one team in Minnesota and 99% of the Minnesota people in this topic say that Minnesota dominates the prep scene nationally. In an earlier post (in this topic) I stated that Massachusetts and Michigan would beg to differ.<br><br>How can we be so arrogant?<br><br>Holy Angels posted a record of 26-4-0 after winning the state title in AA. Of those four losses, they were beaten by Greenway 4-1, Cretin 3-2, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><b> Mt. St. Charles Academy</b><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><i> (Rhode Island)</i><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> 2-1 and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><b> Boston Catholic Memorial</b><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><i> (Massachusetts)</i><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> 3-2.<br><br>Holy Angels lost 100% of their games against eastern prep schools this season.<br><br>Does this mean that Minnesota has lost their stranglehold on prep hockey dominance nationwide?<br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :hat --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/pimp.gif ALT=":hat"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> - "You tell me!" <p></p><i></i>

NUEagles
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Re: HS vs. Prep

Post by NUEagles » Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:33 pm

If you took all the best Minnesota players and played a tourny of 49 games vs the other states MN would probably have the most depth at everything (Mass would be close) But... This state has had no one player really dominate the Pro's. Housley is good yes-there's a start. Broten was above average but MN has yet to produce a player no where near the level of the elite. <p></p><i></i>

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