Goldy Gopher wrote:Are there any teams with an A enrollment that have opted up to AA and are not competitive? I know St. Cloud Apollo in the early to mid 2000's had an A enrollment but opted up to play in 8AA and got roughed up for a handful of years. If it happened then, I'm sure it's happening somewhere now. If so, what is the thought process behind that?
Bemidji has had several years of not being competitive in the sense they did not make it to section finals or semis.
Cloquet and Roseau are a little similar to that.
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton has over 1,000 kids enrolled in their co-op, Bemidji as well. I would say Roseau belongs in that conversation, but the other two have larger enrollments then other teams with A enrollment numbers playing AA and probably are not the best examples.
And Bemidji being competitive vs MAML is on a whole different level. Bemidji is off a state tournament appearance. MAML has never even been close.
But the question was teams that have opted up....
Bemidji is on a high right now, but there were a lot of years that we did not have much to cheer about....
Cloquet Esko and Carlton together do not put them close to the 1181.
Opt ups that I can see and enrollment
Bemidji 1167
St Thomas 1034
Grand Rapids 1014
CEC 1070
and then
Roseau 341
Duluth Marshall 244
Holy Family 437
3 privates (another debate for another thread)
1 small
and 3 playing up where they should.
I can't speak to MAML, however some of the Co-Op teams are allowed to go down because they have no players from one (or more) of the schools in the Co-Op. Co-Ops are formed for a variety of reasons, forming them and disbanding them is not as easy as many think. Also, sections are assigned in March, it can be a guess as to whether a kid will play bantams or high school in September when school starts, maybe the Sophomore you thought was going to play has transportation issues, or maybe he open enrolled in. It's not as easy to predict as you might think.
Faribault has a Co-Op with the state academy for the deaf, I don't think they have a kid from MSAD for a decade, but by having the Co-Op Faribault leaves the door open for those kids to play should they so choose. Should they play AA because a kid might play? I think that is an unrealistic expectation.
elliott70 wrote:
Bemidji has had several years of not being competitive in the sense they did not make it to section finals or semis.
Cloquet and Roseau are a little similar to that.
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton has over 1,000 kids enrolled in their co-op, Bemidji as well. I would say Roseau belongs in that conversation, but the other two have larger enrollments then other teams with A enrollment numbers playing AA and probably are not the best examples.
And Bemidji being competitive vs MAML is on a whole different level. Bemidji is off a state tournament appearance. MAML has never even been close.
But the question was teams that have opted up....
Bemidji is on a high right now, but there were a lot of years that we did not have much to cheer about....
Cloquet Esko and Carlton together do not put them close to the 1181.
Opt ups that I can see and enrollment
Bemidji 1167
St Thomas 1034
Grand Rapids 1014
CEC 1070
and then
Roseau 341
Duluth Marshall 244
Holy Family 437
3 privates (another debate for another thread)
1 small
and 3 playing up where they should.
Did I miss somebody?
Thank you. So what does the MSHSL take into consideration when it allows a school like Marshall to opt up? They weren't quite a Hermantown or STA when they were in class A.
GoldyGopher wrote:
Cloquet-Esko-Carlton has over 1,000 kids enrolled in their co-op, Bemidji as well. I would say Roseau belongs in that conversation, but the other two have larger enrollments then other teams with A enrollment numbers playing AA and probably are not the best examples.
And Bemidji being competitive vs MAML is on a whole different level. Bemidji is off a state tournament appearance. MAML has never even been close.
But the question was teams that have opted up....
Bemidji is on a high right now, but there were a lot of years that we did not have much to cheer about....
Cloquet Esko and Carlton together do not put them close to the 1181.
Opt ups that I can see and enrollment
Bemidji 1167
St Thomas 1034
Grand Rapids 1014
CEC 1070
and then
Roseau 341
Duluth Marshall 244
Holy Family 437
3 privates (another debate for another thread)
1 small
and 3 playing up where they should.
Did I miss somebody?
Thank you. So what does the MSHSL take into consideration when it allows a school like Marshall to opt up? They weren't quite a Hermantown or STA when they were in class A.
I would assume if a team is competent enough to play in AA they probably don't care too much.
As for DM's choice to move up.... They probably are sick of playing Hermantown in sections and are aware they aren't going up any time soon.
Since I'm still curious and what better place to ask...
If a student wants to play a sport that isn't offered at their school, are they just out of luck if there is no co-op? Someone brought up the state academy for the deaf being part of the co-op with Faribault despite no one there playing hockey. So, if they dropped MSAD from the co-op then someone from that school wanted to play hockey, what does that student do?
Is there any information posted anywhere about numbers of players from different cities within associations?
moosepaw wrote:The old Westie Head Coach smart move, a couple of key things their enrollment is 1133 which is only 60 young chickens away from being AAAA themselves. They are losing another kid to Breck next year. With MAMAL being so close to AAAA Westie is foaming from the mouth with his freshmen class that had a great year, stop Ward stop Westie. stop MAMAL. westie will retire soon.
The bigger concern is where does it stop? River Lakes for example, their enrollment from their main school is Rocori is 679, but they also get kids from Paynesville, St John's, Albany, Melrose and New London Spicer. With Willmar program struggling so bad if you are a good player you will transfer a few short minutes 10 to be exact and transfer to New -London and play for River Lakes. If you are the head coach for Willmar or Sauk Centre hockey programs your programs will never recover.
It was all planned out.. As told by this poster that probably used to be with the program.
Goldygopher thinks there's an actual debate here on this.. He's actually being MAML's only thorn in their side right now..
Good read from the start and it becomes obvious they knew this success in A was coming..
moosepaw wrote:The old Westie Head Coach smart move, a couple of key things their enrollment is 1133 which is only 60 young chickens away from being AAAA themselves. They are losing another kid to Breck next year. With MAMAL being so close to AAAA Westie is foaming from the mouth with his freshmen class that had a great year, stop Ward stop Westie. stop MAMAL. westie will retire soon.
The bigger concern is where does it stop? River Lakes for example, their enrollment from their main school is Rocori is 679, but they also get kids from Paynesville, St John's, Albany, Melrose and New London Spicer. With Willmar program struggling so bad if you are a good player you will transfer a few short minutes 10 to be exact and transfer to New -London and play for River Lakes. If you are the head coach for Willmar or Sauk Centre hockey programs your programs will never recover.
It was all planned out.. As told by this poster that probably used to be with the program.
Goldygopher thinks there's an actual debate here on this.. He's actually being MAML's only thorn in their side right now..
Good read from the start and it becomes obvious they knew this success in A was coming..
No, BoDangles is a sore loser who has nothing better to do than spew garbage with no facts to back it up.
moosepaw wrote:The old Westie Head Coach smart move, a couple of key things their enrollment is 1133 which is only 60 young chickens away from being AAAA themselves. They are losing another kid to Breck next year. With MAMAL being so close to AAAA Westie is foaming from the mouth with his freshmen class that had a great year, stop Ward stop Westie. stop MAMAL. westie will retire soon.
The bigger concern is where does it stop? River Lakes for example, their enrollment from their main school is Rocori is 679, but they also get kids from Paynesville, St John's, Albany, Melrose and New London Spicer. With Willmar program struggling so bad if you are a good player you will transfer a few short minutes 10 to be exact and transfer to New -London and play for River Lakes. If you are the head coach for Willmar or Sauk Centre hockey programs your programs will never recover.
It was all planned out.. As told by this poster that probably used to be with the program.
Goldygopher thinks there's an actual debate here on this.. He's actually being MAML's only thorn in their side right now..
Good read from the start and it becomes obvious they knew this success in A was coming..
No, BoDangles is a sore loser who has nothing better to do than spew garbage with no facts to back it up.
All the facts have become very obvious to all besides you..
MrBoDangles wrote:
I'll answer for him.. Not saying they will, but because they would have been competitive in 8AA next year. Very surprised the decision makers didn't look at all the factors since MAML will be trending stronger than quite a few 8AA teams..
So.... Because an AA sized program is going to be competing against some very small A sized programs in 5A. Simple as that.
They haven't been competitive in 8AA in their entire existence. They haven't been past the section quarters ever. Just because they have a solid group coming up, doesn't translate into varsity success. That also doesn't mean they will dominate the smaller A schools.
All in the timing
And now they're moving to class A when they know they'll be most competitive..
- Your number 4 ranked bantam team beat nearly every A bantam team they played that play A in HS.
- Your bantam team beat nearly all AA teams they faced.
- They also beat 8AA rival Buffalo's AA Bantam team 5-1 and 3-2 and they'll stay in AA where they should be..
- Your bantam team dominated 6A teams that are more in your area with a 10 2-1 record. Only Sartell gave them ANY competition.. Ended up 2-2-1 against them.. You think 5A is stronger?
- You keep trying to deflect to River Lakes, but your bantams also beat them 3-1 and then 7-0.... So...
- Your sympathy case of MAML high school's hockey program was able to beat Rogers and St. Michael Albertville last season and played many other good AA teams to tight games... Teams that are WAY beyond most 5A type competition. They also bring back lots of talent from last year's team and the talented sophomores from their bantam team that others kept talking about..
- They would have been upper half in 8AA next year and would have only climbed from there.
- The MAML program knew what was coming and pulled a fast one on the High School League..
moosepaw wrote:Yes the old Sheldon Westie pulled a fast one along with River Lakes, RL is a young program that covers 3/4 of Stearns County and will be competitive in 2 years fully expecting them to be upper half of the Central Lakes Cionference.
This Monticello poster also saw what was coming.. Gave a sob story and knew the AA talent that was coming.. The HSL should have looked at all the facts!
