A Few Takeaways from the Meltdown - Girls Side

Discussion of Minnesota Girls Youth Hockey

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jg2112
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A Few Takeaways from the Meltdown - Girls Side

Post by jg2112 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:18 am

My daughter's team (O/S) played in the U12 Meltdown. They won 2 (Manitoba Lightning, and Young Americans), and lost 2 (02 Machine Orange, and Madison Capitols) and took 5th in the Campbell bracket. Five takeaways from the tournament:

1) The 02 Machine Orange might be the best team for its particular age group in this state. I believe they gave up 1 goal in 5 games and shut out the 03 Orange and Miracle Gold in the playoff matchups.

It's also the only team I've seen in summer hockey that rolls 4 lines of forwards and 3 lines of D. Overwhelming in their speed, technique, and aggressive play.

2) The Mounds View AAA team is pretty strong - losing to the Young Americans in the U16 title game. If that program can bridge its low numbers in the 6th and 7th grade levels, it might continue its recent run of strong play at the high school level for the foreseeable future.

3) The Colorado Kodiaks represented well, although there were many local helmets (St. Paul, Forest Lake) on the ice with that team. I also believe Jincy Dunne's sister played on a CO team in this tourney.

4) A vast majority of the U10 and U12 talent in MN has been gobbled up by the Machine, the Miracle Gold, and O/S. News at 11, I know, but outside of the MN Edge winning "Tier 2" at U12 (a fine group of SE Metro players), there were no real surprises in who showed up to collect trophies.

5) It was nice to see the Madison Capitols and Chicago Young Americans play some good, aggressive, skilled hockey. I hope they come up again for more tourneys in 2015 and beyond.

zambonidriver
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Meltdown

Post by zambonidriver » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:18 pm

My daughter played with the kodiaks this weekend had a wonderful time. Met some new friends had a great experience. Very talented bunch. They were comprised of kids from all over the country. The Mn reps were from Stillwater FL, St. Paul, and brainerd. Most of the girls on the machine 02 team are headed to Italy on Friday with a couple of exceptions. Would have been nice to have see them at 14 play a little better comp and get ready for Italy. 2112 you were right Josey Dunn was on that team it was interesting picking her dads brain about how the last Olympic team was picked and how the process for the national team will be picked in the future.

Gotothenetman
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Post by Gotothenetman » Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:21 pm

My daughter's team (O/S) played in the U12 Meltdown. They won 2 (Manitoba Lightning, and Young Americans), and lost 2 (02 Machine Orange, and Madison Capitols) and took 5th in the Campbell bracket. Five takeaways from the tournament:

1) The 02 Machine Orange might be the best team for its particular age group in this state. I believe they gave up 1 goal in 5 games and shut out the 03 Orange and Miracle Gold in the playoff matchups.

It's also the only team I've seen in summer hockey that rolls 4 lines of forwards and 3 lines of D. Overwhelming in their speed, technique, and aggressive play.

2) The Mounds View AAA team is pretty strong - losing to the Young Americans in the U16 title game. If that program can bridge its low numbers in the 6th and 7th grade levels, it might continue its recent run of strong play at the high school level for the foreseeable future.

3) The Colorado Kodiaks represented well, although there were many local helmets (St. Paul, Forest Lake) on the ice with that team. I also believe Jincy Dunne's sister played on a CO team in this tourney.

4) A vast majority of the U10 and U12 talent in MN has been gobbled up by the Machine, the Miracle Gold, and O/S. News at 11, I know, but outside of the MN Edge winning "Tier 2" at U12 (a fine group of SE Metro players), there were no real surprises in who showed up to collect trophies.

5) It was nice to see the Madison Capitols and Chicago Young Americans play some good, aggressive, skilled hockey. I hope they come up again for more tourneys in 2015 and beyond.
JG - I would agree with most of what you shared. However I would also add that I talked to a couple of the parents from the MN Edge and they said there coach was not happy with the placement by the Meltdown Tournament people. You are not able to select a tier when you register for the Meltdown unlike other tournaments. Once they realized they had enough teams for two brackets they did not reach out to teams to ask what the level was of the various teams. The MN Edge should have been in the tier 1 they did not give up a goal in 4 out of the 5 games they played.

If you look at the upper bracket there where some bad games by score. The meltdown should have had the Mn Edge and the Colorado team (which is funny) since the team was made up of girls from the St. Louis Jr Blues, The New Jersey Colonials, and some Chicago girls in the top bracket.

This would have made a good tournament a really good tournament. But since they did not do their homework you had some really bad blow out games in both brackets.

zambonidriver
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thoughts on girls hockey

Post by zambonidriver » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:01 pm

After last weekend my daughter played with the Colorado Kodiaks I came away with a few thoughts and feedback from my new friends.
1. We are blessed in MN, other states are forced to travel to find tournaments.
2. Our AAA tournaments have a reputation for really poor officiating and because of that teams from other states shy away.
3. Colleges are now starting to scout u-16 and the U-14 levels.
4. There are more kids playing hockey than ever before.
5. We still have the best talent in the country.
6. In other states just to play hockey most girls have to play on boys teams.
7. Our girls programs are the envy of the country.
8. Hockey is more affordable here than anywhere else.

massalsa
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Re: thoughts on girls hockey

Post by massalsa » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:09 am

zambonidriver wrote:After last weekend my daughter played with the Colorado Kodiaks I came away with a few thoughts and feedback from my new friends.
1. We are blessed in MN, other states are forced to travel to find tournaments.
2. Our AAA tournaments have a reputation for really poor officiating and because of that teams from other states shy away.
3. Colleges are now starting to scout u-16 and the U-14 levels.
4. There are more kids playing hockey than ever before.
5. We still have the best talent in the country.
6. In other states just to play hockey most girls have to play on boys teams.
7. Our girls programs are the envy of the country.
8. Hockey is more affordable here than anywhere else.
1. The Machine 02's are really good. They would have been competitive in the invite u14 level. The 4 lines rolling are relentless and the shifts are short and fast.

2. I saw the Kodiaks play a period and change in 2 games + our teams game vs them on Saturday evening. After 2 goals against them in the first period they turned it on in periods 2&3 and rolled. They had 3 or 4 Lady Blues that were very nice players. A couple of 2000's (according to the Lady Blue website...#s on the back of the helmets) an 01, and I believe Dunne is an 02. All played fundamentally well and always seemed to have people cutting to the net and in front of the goalie. There was 2 other players that were outstanding as well. One of the white helmet gals (who was playing in the tourney on the boys side as well) was one of the best 2001's I have seen here or anywhere. Fast, physical, had great hands, and would be in the top 2 or 3 2001's if she lived here. Spoke with her dad for a period and he shared some interesting things about hockey in CO and beyond. He has already had D1 coaches contact him with offers. I believe him as she was THAT good.

3. The officiating in the game was sub par for sure and I saw both coaches talking with Meltdown people post game. 1 coach and a parent were booted from the Kodiaks (parent was supposedly Dunne) and 1 player from the Ice Cougars for an undisclosed reason but think it was from a third penalty? The officials were not communicating effectively with either side. I heard the Canadian fans complaining about the officiating in a game before on of ours too. Zamboni is right on with the non MN teams complaining about officials.

4. Agree on the envy of our access to hockey and it is WAY more affordable here even with summer AAA and other training.

5. Tourney may have been different if HP 15 was not going on. Could have been more 2000 talent represented in other teams that may have changed things (the Cougar team is all 2001 with maybe an 02 and most are 7th graders).

6. Was a good experience overall with decent balance in the u14 invite bracket (my opinion).

zambonidriver
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Meltdown

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:59 am

Salsa you hit it right on the head. Machine 02 would have competed at the 14 level. Would have been nice to have seen them. The best team at that level didn't play over that weekend 01/02 Os selects. 3 girls off that team helped Colorado. Ice Cougars have nice team. Though Zach is too quick to shorten his bench. It was Dunne who was kicked out. Three college teams were at the ice Cougars Colorado game. RPI Vermont Scsu. STE had all of their HP players there. Don't know about the other teams. Other bracket Top Dog was mainly Shakopee players that were U 12s. Dunne 02 played at both levels last weekend. Would have been nice to have seen her with proper rest. Don't know much about the Monarchs. Crown has some nice players. Would have been interesting to see I'd 02 machine would have rolled 4 lines at the 14 u level. My guess probably not. Saw Ice edge play championship game they were at the right level
Last edited by zambonidriver on Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:19 am

Monarchs are new AAA this year from the hockey people who brought you MAP MN. How were they?

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:43 pm

Is the Machine 00 still together? If so, the 01/02 Os Selects are better?

The 02 Machine team (basically) beat the Top Dog team (basically) in last year's 12U 3rd place game, so I'd say, yes, they would have competed at the 14U level this year.

It was my understanding that the Monarchs were going to have a lot of last year's MG players. It didn't seem like it.

Based on scores, it looks like most of the 14U games were very competitive. Funny seeing lots of talk about the 'Colorado' team and none about the STE team that beat them in pool play and lost to them in the championship on a nice shot with only a couple minutes to play.

Salsa, wishing your kid well.

zambonidriver
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01/02 OS selects

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:54 pm

They won the clash last year Beating 02 machine and 01 Ice cougars
The only teams they have lost to this spring are teams that are much older than them 00 OS, 01 OS, MV High School. Far and away the best 7th grade team out there. Goaltending, Defense, and top line Forwards. Been playing up in the Os spring league and have beaten a few high school teams. You won't see this group playing u-12 level in any tournaments even though age wise they could.

InigoMontoya
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Re: 01/02 OS selects

Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:59 pm

zambonidriver wrote:They won the clash last year Beating 02 machine and 01 Ice cougars
The only teams they have lost to this spring are teams that are much older than them 00 OS, 01 OS, MV High School. Far and away the best 7th grade team out there. Goaltending, Defense, and top line Forwards. Been playing up in the Os spring league and have beaten a few high school teams. You won't see this group playing u-12 level in any tournaments even though age wise they could.
Not if they are 01/02

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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:01 pm

01/02 OS all 7th graders still eligible to play 12 U this Sumeer.

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:11 pm

zambonidriver wrote:01/02 OS all 7th graders still eligible to play 12 U this Sumeer.
Incorrect.

InigoMontoya
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Re: 01/02 OS selects

Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:21 pm

zambonidriver wrote:They won the clash last year Beating 02 machine and 01 Ice cougars
The only teams they have lost to this spring are teams that are much older than them 00 OS, 01 OS, MV High School. Far and away the best 7th grade team out there. Goaltending, Defense, and top line Forwards. Been playing up in the Os spring league and have beaten a few high school teams. You won't see this group playing u-12 level in any tournaments even though age wise they could.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong clash website, but last year's champions
12U - Machine 2-0 over Blades (Os 4th (0-6 to Northern Storm)). Velocity but no Ice Cougars.

zambonidriver
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Re: 01/02 OS selects

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:45 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:They won the clash last year Beating 02 machine and 01 Ice cougars
The only teams they have lost to this spring are teams that are much older than them 00 OS, 01 OS, MV High School. Far and away the best 7th grade team out there. Goaltending, Defense, and top line Forwards. Been playing up in the Os spring league and have beaten a few high school teams. You won't see this group playing u-12 level in any tournaments even though age wise they could.
Maybe I'm looking at the wrong clash website, but last year's champions
12U - Machine 2-0 over Blades (Os 4th (0-6 to Northern Storm)). Velocity but no Ice Cougars.[/That is from 2 years ago
Last year OS 4-1 over Ice Cougars in Championship game]

InigoMontoya
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Post by InigoMontoya » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:58 pm

Thanks for the correction, the link says 2014, but must be pulling up 2013 info.

Is the 2015 schedule really the 2015 schedule on the site? Is the Os team in the 12U the 01/02 team?

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:45 pm

Up and down weekend of hockey at the U16 and U19 levels. As mentioned earlier, many in-town teams missing girls for mainly the HP 16/17 Final 54 (or 57 as they expanded). The Chicago Young Americans were pretty impressive at U16 and U19.

At U16's, that MV team has played together for awhile now at the youth, HS and AAA levels, so I was not surprised to see them do well. Very dominate in the Saturday games that I caught parts of. Probably would do ok at the U19 level. Capitols looked good too. Again, caught parts of their games on Saturday. STE was up and down on Saturday. One period they'd look good, then the next they would not. MAP team looked like they were missing a chunk of their posted roster? Only two line from what I saw. Like STE, they were up and down. Of the rest, I saw parts of the Vapor/Predator game, and it was sloppy at best.

At the 19's, as mentioned, the YA's were very impressive. They have a WI recruit on the U19 team (that was scoring at-will) with several other D1 committed players. River City was impressive too. Good team-play and puck movement. The Ice Bombers are normally a formidable team, but they had 4 HP players on the roster. Thus, they were missing girls at various times - hurt them Sat night. Same for the two MAP Monarch teams. Neither MAP team ever seemed to have a roster of more than 10-11 skaters. Like the Bombers, the Monarch #1 team has 4 HP players listed. If both MAP teams had full rosters, it might have been better for them. Lastly, the Milwaukee Phoenix team was simply overmatched. They were lucky that they did not have to play the YA's this weekend.

Note to the Meltdown Tournament Director. Move the U16's and U19's to the following weekend next year. This is the 2nd year in a row where I know many good players were missing due to HP conflicts. OS didn’t even send a team this year at U16, nor did STE at U19. You'll get a larger and more competitive tournament if you move this away from the HP weekends. I guarantee it. Give the Young Americans something they can really chew their teeth on! We need more solid out-of-town clubs like that coming in, but WE need to give them good opponents to play, or they won't come back.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:56 pm

InigoMontoya wrote:Is the Machine 00 still together? If so, the 01/02 Os Selects are better?

The 02 Machine team (basically) beat the Top Dog team (basically) in last year's 12U 3rd place game, so I'd say, yes, they would have competed at the 14U level this year.

It was my understanding that the Monarchs were going to have a lot of last year's MG players. It didn't seem like it.

Based on scores, it looks like most of the 14U games were very competitive. Funny seeing lots of talk about the 'Colorado' team and none about the STE team that beat them in pool play and lost to them in the championship on a nice shot with only a couple minutes to play.

Salsa, wishing your kid well.

Couple of replies and follow ups...

I believe that Colorado had a couple of their high end players playing on other teams as well. Both on the boys side and also U12.

The best player I saw (2 players with white helmets, 1 was DEFINITELY a higher end talent, maybe named Peyton or something like that?) supposedly played her first full game with the U14 team on Saturday night. It is my understanding that it was the first game that did not conflict with her primary team which was an 01 boys team. I am guessing that various girls played or did not play with that team over the course of the weekend which made them look more or less awesome depending on the combo of players that were playing. STE & CO were the only 2 losses for Cougars and ended up playing in the championship. CO was clearly a better team in my opinion (worth nothing a lot of the time!) than STE when we played them.

01 OS selects are NOT the same as 01/02 OS selects. 01 OS selects has WAY more talent and would have most likely (again my opinion) won the tourney had they played in it. 01 Selects would beat 02 Machine which beat 01/02 Selects 7-0.

I think that a great battle would be last season's 00 Machine (Bowlby) vs this years 01 Os Selects. Edge would be to 00 Machine which I believe that I heard has disbanded.

I saw NO Blades teams on the girls side this past weekend. I saw the 00 Blades play in an Os scrimmage fest a couple of weeks back and they are a good team. They have a couple of very nice players on D.

People are looking up the Clash results but thought we were talking about the Meltdown (unless seeing who did what in another tournament).

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:13 pm

massalsa wrote:
InigoMontoya wrote:Is the Machine 00 still together? If so, the 01/02 Os Selects are better?

The 02 Machine team (basically) beat the Top Dog team (basically) in last year's 12U 3rd place game, so I'd say, yes, they would have competed at the 14U level this year.

It was my understanding that the Monarchs were going to have a lot of last year's MG players. It didn't seem like it.

Based on scores, it looks like most of the 14U games were very competitive. Funny seeing lots of talk about the 'Colorado' team and none about the STE team that beat them in pool play and lost to them in the championship on a nice shot with only a couple minutes to play.

Salsa, wishing your kid well.

Couple of replies and follow ups...

I believe that Colorado had a couple of their high end players playing on other teams as well. Both on the boys side and also U12.

The best player I saw (2 players with white helmets, 1 was DEFINITELY a higher end talent, maybe named Peyton or something like that?) supposedly played her first full game with the U14 team on Saturday night. It is my understanding that it was the first game that did not conflict with her primary team which was an 01 boys team. I am guessing that various girls played or did not play with that team over the course of the weekend which made them look more or less awesome depending on the combo of players that were playing. STE & CO were the only 2 losses for Cougars and ended up playing in the championship. CO was clearly a better team in my opinion (worth nothing a lot of the time!) than STE when we played them.

01 OS selects are NOT the same as 01/02 OS selects. 01 OS selects has WAY more talent and would have most likely (again my opinion) won the tourney had they played in it. 01 Selects would beat 02 Machine which beat 01/02 Selects 7-0.

I think that a great battle would be last season's 00 Machine (Bowlby) vs this years 01 Os Selects. Edge would be to 00 Machine which I believe that I heard has disbanded.

I saw NO Blades teams on the girls side this past weekend. I saw the 00 Blades play in an Os scrimmage fest a couple of weeks back and they are a good team. They have a couple of very nice players on D.

People are looking up the Clash results but thought we were talking about the Meltdown (unless seeing who did what in another tournament).[/Salsa you saw the 02/03 selects this weekend the 01/02 selects have not played in a tournament this year they played in scrimmage fest without most of their top end players the 01/02 selects are every bit as talented as the 01 selects. They have given the 01's everything they could handle. They won the clash last year 2nd in the Meltdown last year lost to 01 MG 2-1 in a great game. The 01/02 won't have their entire team together until August. They are playing in the mtn dew cup this weekend at u-14 even without their goalie who will be in Italy They should win this weekend and the clash.]

jg2112
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Post by jg2112 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:12 am

InigoMontoya wrote:Thanks for the correction, the link says 2014, but must be pulling up 2013 info.

Is the 2015 schedule really the 2015 schedule on the site? Is the Os team in the 12U the 01/02 team?
No, that's my daughter's (02/03) team.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:45 am

I spoke with Winny a while ago and she told me she does things differently with her OS teams than most AAA programs and now even does it differently than she used to. Its a little confusing so here is the clarification

She used to do 98's, 99's, 00's, etc just like everyone else.

Two years ago she decided (starting with her now 7th grade group) to do it differently going forward. She wanted to group her teams in classes vs birth year groups so when it came to recruiting she would have them all together in the same class.

The O1/02 team is her 7th grade team. The 01's are all fall 01's (Sept-Dec) and the 02's are spring O2's but ALL 7th graders.

The 02/03 team is her 6th grade group.

I think the 01 team is mostly 8th graders but may have a couple 7th and 9th sprinkled in? Not 100% sure but her change was after this group.

She says the multi-sport athletes always end up being the best players when its all said and done. She wants the kids that play soccer, lacrosse, softball, volleyball, etc, etc. Thus her teams are not the practice 5 days a week groups and wants to to miss OS and go to your soccer game, etc She thinks there is a huge benefit playing other sports and doesn't want her kids to specialize.

As far as the best team in U14, that would have to be an true 00 team like the Machine, OS, Blades, etc. However, most good 00 teams are filled with varsity kids and varsity kids don't feel the need to play down at U14 as a group. They would play U16 or beyond.

The 8th grade OS team (mostly 8th graders) is really good. They are likely the cream of the crop at U14...again if you toss out true 00 teams.



She feels the kids that are better at hockey and focus so much on hockey will be better early but eventually the duel sport kids will catch them and pass them up.

The Machine 02 team and Ice Cougars 01 team are both essentially 7th grade groups. (not 100% sure on Ice Cougars) The Machine 02 team has no business playing in a U12 tourney other than chasing a trophy. I don't see what development would come from that philosophy. They would do just fine in the U14. The OS 01/02 team played U14 last year and are the same age as the 02 Machine kids playing U12 this year. Doesn't make a lot of sense other than wanting to flex your muscles.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:17 am

Zamboni, thanks for the clarification. I must have been mistaken on the OS team at Meltdown. I am fairly certain I did see the 01/02 at the "scrimmage-fest" a couple of weeks ago and at an OS Spring League game or two. Still in my mind no comparison between the "01"s and the "01/02" team but hopefully they will end up playing each other in a tournament sometime soon.

Maverick, thanks for the OS breakdown and what Winny does. Makes sense but it is not so clear when kids go from "insert year or years" to Jr Whitecaps...is it when they are U16 age or is that her team that plays U16? I am fairly sure that there are a number of 99 & 00's that play for the Jr Whitecaps this summer.

I think that you are correct also on the 02 Machine & 01 Cougars being mostly 7th graders and the 01 OS Selects being mostly 8th. I think that there might be a couple of 7th graders at most on that team.

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Post by Mavs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:28 am

Good question on the Jr Whitecaps

Anything 8th grade and above is still the old way. I have no idea how Winny will deal with that down the road when the 7th and younger kids get to that age when Jr Whitecaps is an option. She might keep it the same as it currently is and just invite who she thinks is ready but maybe it helps her mentally keep track of which girls belong to which grade without having to look at a spread sheet.

I am just guessing...not really sure

The 01 team has to be better than the 01/02 team. They are all 8th graders that played varsity (many of them) vs kids that played U12 or pee wee. It may not be a blowout but one would think 2-3 goals better. The thing with OS teams as you never know who will be there due to other sport conflicts so I am basing it on top rosters being available for both.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:31 am

Good question on the Jr Whitecaps

Anything 8th grade and above is still the old way. I have no idea how Winny will deal with that down the road when the 7th and younger kids get to that age when Jr Whitecaps is an option. She might keep it the same as it currently is and just invite who she thinks is ready but maybe it helps her mentally keep track of which girls belong to which grade without having to look at a spread sheet.

I am just guessing...not really sure

The 01 team has to be better than the 01/02 team. They are all 8th graders that played varsity (many of them) vs kids that played U12 or pee wee. It may not be a blowout but one would think 2-3 goals better. The thing with OS teams as you never know who will be there due to other sport conflicts so I am basing it on top rosters being available for both.

Mavs
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Post by Mavs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:40 am

zambonidriver wrote:01/02 OS all 7th graders still eligible to play 12 U this Sumeer.
U12 would be 02 and 03 so you are half right. The 02's could play U12 but the 7th grade 01's are still legit U14 and can't play U12

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:04 am

Winny, in the past has moved kids to the whitecaps based on need for a position and their development and if they can handle playing at that level. That is where spring and fall leagues come in. She will have kids sub up if she feels they are ready to or close to moving up. My daughter has subbed up quite a few times and it is amazing how fast she adjusted to the speed of play. One thing about Winny is she knows everyone of the kids in her program and they all idolize her. I have never heard a kid say anything negative. She is also evaluating them and knows who is doing well and who is struggling. She never shortens the bench or turns a kid down. To me it is the best program out there.
She encourages creativity and encourages girls to try new things. Making a mistake is ok as long as you learn from that mistake.

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