Elite League

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Elite

Post by Sioux Fan » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:07 pm

When I got called and told that is what they were going to call the league I almost puked...<br><br>talk about misnomer!!! talk about a word that does more damage than good!<br><br>how about young dumb and excited Hockey League. I think they need to know where they are on the development schedule....<br> <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Brett11
Posts: 43
Joined: Mon Jun 02, 2003 8:01 am

Re: Elite is a good name.

Post by Brett11 » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:36 pm

The level of play in the elite league is certainly not at the USHL level, but it is higher than most every MN regular season high school game, with the possible exception of the AA State Tournament games. And those playing in it do represent the vast majority of the best Minnesota High School hockey players.<br><br>Of those MN high school players not there, some are in the USHL or other junior leagues (major juniors as well), some are at Shattuck, and a very few of the best were never asked.<br><br>I think Elite is a valid name, especially for the Fall season. <br><br>Which MN High School League in the Fall is better? <p></p><i></i>

Oldpuckdefender
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:19 pm

Elite League

Post by Oldpuckdefender » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:19 pm

MN High School Fall League sounds better.. There are some very good players that are not able to play because they didn't make it in the tryouts last summer. I heard that 3 players made it from the northern tryout out of 40, is that true?. No sophmores were allowed to tryout this year also, I see that some were playing, they must be very good? This league is great for those who are commited to playing hockey after high school. The rap on MN high school players trying to make it in the USHL is that MN H. S Hockey dosn't develope the players compared to Midgets, and Jr. A Hockey. At this age, players need games at a high level, and this league is a great start. Is there any truth to another league or more teams for next year. A North and South Division an a couple more teams might keep travel down. <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: Elite League

Post by Sioux Fan » Fri Sep 19, 2003 5:02 pm

Brett11,<br><br>You must be one of those elite guys.<br><br>I think that is a nice name it is very inaccurate though! <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Whatwillwork
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:44 am

....

Post by Whatwillwork » Fri Sep 19, 2003 8:19 pm

Who the heck cares what the name is. Is it inaccurate because your So MN players aren't represented? It's good hockey, and I've enjoyed what I've seen. I wouldn't mind another team or two to help out So MN hockey players, but, the players need to earn there spots like everyone else. <p></p><i></i>

burnaby
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:41 pm

whatwillwork

Post by burnaby » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:32 pm

Oh yeah, the players really have earned their spots there. Is that why last year the first 90 spots were from coaches recommendations. No scouting, no prelimary tryout, but a popularity contest. Hockey is a great game until you have parents, coaches who are friends with this family or that, who you know, suck-ups. You will not run into a more political game. That is hockeys biggest downfall. It's too bad for the kids who are not part of that circle, they know who they are and I do believe it can be pretty discouraging. Oh yeah, you can come on with the argument that it should be a motivator to prove someone wrong, but most know that is not reality. If you don't have a connection somehow, it is a definite uphill battle. It's a disappointment that some who have some pretty good potential will not develop because they will not have the same opportunities. The kids who are hand picked know exactly why they are there versus their teammates who don't fit into the chosen. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of kids who wholeheartedly deserve the accolades but there is a good number of kids who don't get the chance for all for the wrong reasons. We truly need to get back to ALL kids earning what they receive and hockey will be the better for it. <p></p><i></i>

mnhshock29
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:02 pm

elite

Post by mnhshock29 » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:46 pm

To my knowledge Brett11 and the rest of the proponents of HS Elite Hockey that have weighed in on this board are not part of the program, but I am.<br><br>I love the fact that we're talking about the program here and want to answer some of the concerns about the name.<br><br>I believe that "Elite" is thrown around way too often. Jack Blatherwick mentioned this in a complimentary column he wrote last year as one of the things we've had to fight. What he was inferring is that unlike every other league and camp that has given itself the moniker, this lives up to its name. <br><br>The name is the name because this is designed for only the elite. This league targets only the top players in the state. Some choose to stay home and sit on their couch/concentrate only on their fall sport, etc. (I don't blame them as this is quite a commitment), some choose to go to Juniors or Ann Arbor and some choose to go to Shattuck (where they end up playing a ton of games in this very same league). The goal for the final product is the top 105 MN players who want to play in this. This is ambitious for all of the reasons mentioned above, but, take a look at the guys in this league, top end guys like Page, Bostrom, Ammerman, Lee, Thang, etc. Who are the guys that better fit the elite description, want to play in the fall and aren't? <br><br>As for the Northern tryout, again, the tryouts for this program occur throughout the regular HS season. The majority of the players are invited in via coach recommendation and scouting by league personnel (this is how we identified D-1 signees like Beaverson, Dey and Garrity, who weren't even on Select radar). There are a ton of northern players in this league...an almost disporportionate number based on the state's population number. So many that a number of players have spilled onto teams outside of the North squad (Peluso-SE, Lee-NE, Harling, Emmerich, etc.-ND). This fact also addresses the southern MN complaint. These teams are just a general way to distribute kids. If HS coaches and league personnel identified a ton of kids from southern MN who were ideal for this league, they would play in it. We take the top 105 and figure out how to divide them. We don't say, "well, the south team is full, so John Doe loses out." While I'm sure we miss a few, it's not due to politics. We honestly don't care where they're from.<br><br>MN has not done a good job of developing superstar caliber players. While there are many USHL/D-1 caliber players in the state, there are too few who achieve Phil Housley/N.Broten status. We want to make those guys better. Next year there is a chance that a secondary league will be developed that will allow the next tier to compete against each other. These guys would be alternates for the Elite league. Expansion would water down the league and will not happen. ND may be weaker, but the league wants to serve more than just the state. <br><br>Sorry to ramble and thanks for talking about the program. I think we've already seen improvement and it will only continue. Hope folks can make it out to New Hope this weekend and to other game sites as the action continues. <p></p><i></i>

mnhshock29
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2003 11:02 pm

elite

Post by mnhshock29 » Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:56 pm

Burnaby, who has been so wronged by the program? Why do you think this is political? I'm confused because while I believe there are a lot of politics in hockey, I really think this program takes a ton of strides to avoid any. The head coaches are from circles outside of HS hockey and the league was started by a guy whose youngest son is a 29-year old former Junior "A" player. Who are they beholden to? The program sought coach (including opposing coach) feedback to avoid only targeting the same Select kids who have been invited over and over to everything all of their life. Luke Beaverson, who is one of the most highly-touted NHL prospects, wasn't even All-Conference the year before he played. We identified him and scouts went crazy after watching him. Next year he'll be playing for UND. Dey and Garrity weren't select kids either. They'll be at SCSU next year. If this was political, we'd just take the select list and that would be the league. Because of timing, there wasn't a ton of scouting before the first season, but last season games were scrutinized by league personnel. <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

Re: whatwillwork

Post by Sioux Fan » Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:00 am

How good is an elite player if he is upside down. Yes I am bitter about the idea that a good in road to the scouts for our top players has been stolen.<br><br>I guess I won't get over it. Why don't they let us have a team and let us enter a tourney or two... <br><br>I wonder? <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i></i>

Finn70
Posts: 138
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:50 pm

Re: Elite League

Post by Finn70 » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:24 am

I am <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">not</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> in any way associated with the league as a player, coach or in any other way. But I have seen some of the games and I think the gentleman who commented above who is involved in the league sounds rather reasonable. It makes sense to scout the kids throughout the year as opposed to short term tryouts because you get a better picture of a kid's game. In my opinion, short term tryouts aren't as valuable as seeing a kid perform over the long haul.<br><br>I will grant you that a few kids who flew under the radar the previous year when scouted may vastly improve in the off-season due to working out or gaining more ice time in camps but I would bet those that jump from OK players to "elite" in one off-season are the exception. The system may not be perfect but it appears to work pretty well in this early stage.<br><br>As for who is represented, I think the main issue for a few people here is that they think their locale is underrepresented. Of course, some of these same people are under the illusion that the quality of southern MN hockey is as good as it is in the metro or in northern MN and that is the biggest laugh there is. Let's face facts, southern MN hockey develops a few good players but overall the hockey talent down there is weak and thin. <br><br>In any "elite" or "all star" situation, there will be players who are left off which creates a debate of "politics" and things of that nature. To me, using politics as an excuse is often the easy way out for some people to explain why something didn't go the way they wanted. Its a lot easier to use a vague term like "politics" than it is to accept that maybe most of the kids who aren't in the league just didn't show enough on the ice when they were scouted to warrant being included. <p></p><i></i>

Whatwillwork
Posts: 57
Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2003 8:44 am

.....

Post by Whatwillwork » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:42 am

I am not involved in the league, just a fan, and I'm quite happy with what I see on the ice. The quality of play this early in the season is quite good.<br><br>MNHSHOCK29, what is your involvement with the league if I may ask? <p></p><i></i>

burnaby
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:41 pm

elite

Post by burnaby » Sat Sep 20, 2003 12:59 pm

mnhshock29<br>As far as it not being political, if I wasn't concerned about certain players being hurt (blackballed) I would tell you why I feel it's political. I have been told by numerous people that I'm not off in my thinking..but of course, not by the people who run the show. You will never be able to convince me it's not political. I know too much otherwise. Like I said, there are definitely kids who belong there who truly are the best we have to offer<br>but in the same breath there are also kids who aren't there because of political reasons. I agree, it's a great idea for a program but it definitely needs to be fine tuned and it appears as it you truly are trying to make it better. If that happens than maybe we will develop some bonafide "elite" players. As far as Beaverson, he was not really scouted, he happened to be invited to tryout (not as one of 90 players who automatically were on teams) by Kevin Hartzell, who has a son playing in the WB hockey association, just as Luke was so he knew of Luke and invited him to try out. Luke was a kid who never made an A team in WB, played JV as a sophomore and 2nd or 3rd line as a junior. Do you think a little politics played in here??? He was fortunate to have Hartzell involved in your program who knew about him, if he had to rely on a coaches recommendation he most certainly would have been overlooked. <p></p><i></i>

hocke101
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:32 pm

Beaverson

Post by hocke101 » Sat Sep 20, 2003 10:30 pm

You have to be out of your mind to think that beaversons being in the league was political. He was one of the top players in the league as the college and nhl scouts will verify. Hartzell liking his play and inviting him to the tryouts is the scouting they were talking about. He only invited him to try out for a team he deserved to make and Beaverson did the rest. I dont think Luke was the only player that Hartzell invited to tryout or watched that year. It is true that you need to be good and you also need someone to notice you but that is not politics that is just part of life. <p></p><i></i>

Sioux Fan
Posts: 552
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2003 2:56 pm
Location: Rochester, MN

So. MN weak and Thin

Post by Sioux Fan » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:40 am

I want to address this premiss. I want to talk about the success of So MN players.<br><br>When we put the best group together and have an intense training camp we have never been lower than 3rd place in Project Prep league.<br><br>We were only third once. That means our top guys were in the top two all 7 seasons in Project Prep. More recently we were in the top two teams in the last two Great 8 tourneys. <br><br>Please Call us Team Iowa give me a team and if we are not representative and very competitive kick us out in two seasons.<br><br>Why not? <p>Hockey Nut in So. MN</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... xfan>Sioux Fan</A> at: 9/21/03 12:19 pm<br></i>

suomi27
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2002 12:55 pm

so mn weak and thin

Post by suomi27 » Sun Sep 21, 2003 9:59 am

I stand with you Sioux Fan, I have seen your wells fargo teams play and my son has played for you. I think it is a disgrace that only two kids from south of the cities is on the elite roster. There were only a handful even given a tryout and that was after much griping and pandering. Noterman has the right idea, how can the south great 8 teams finish so high and how could his Wells Fargo team be rated in the top 10 in MidgetAAA last year and yet no one from that team is in the league. I think its odd that only two players from the whole south of the state are worthy, but when Noterman was willing to bring his team and show what they were capable of no one wanted them around. <p></p><i></i>

highscout
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:18 pm

Beaverson

Post by highscout » Sun Sep 21, 2003 2:50 pm

I'm sick of coming on this board and seeing people praise how Luke is some type of star player. Did anyone see his plus/minus at Green Bay. Not so good. As anyone heard of a D-1 defensemen going to St.Cloud named Chris Anderson. Everyone claims his ride is Bull. While beaverson isn't any better. All Beaverson's game consist of is running around hitting people with his 6'4 NHL frame. I hope he learned how to actually play defense, because at WBL he sucked. The reason he never got the time he deserved is because he had no defensive sense. This kid came out of no where and personally I'm sick of big dumb defensemen getting rides simply because of there size. Watch him drop the ball at North Dakota. <p></p><i></i>

burnaby
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:41 pm

highscout

Post by burnaby » Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:37 pm

highscout, agreed. Plus/minus certainly doesn't seem to be taken into account much. If you ask me, it tells the whole story of whether I want a player or not. If you look, though, Andersons plus/minus account last year was pretty bad also. Points and gooning it up baby is what it's all about!!! I look for plus/minus as my TOP priority. <p></p><i></i>

hocke101
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2003 4:32 pm

Luke

Post by hocke101 » Sun Sep 21, 2003 5:00 pm

I dont think there were many players on Green Bay last year that tore up the plus minus. He does need work on some things as all players I know do but to say he is only big is wrong. He also has very good speed and skating as well as shooting and stickhandling. He is going to continue to become better and will be very successful at ND. I dont think Anderson is where he is and from what I know St Cloud wasnt sure enough about him when they offered him the ride. North Dakota was much more sure and is very excited about adding a good player to their roster. I would take beaverson on my team any day. <p></p><i></i>

mnhockey19
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:40 pm

NAMES PLEASE

Post by mnhockey19 » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:13 am

i'd like some names of players the elite league missed out on. <br><br>also, could someone contact the people in charge of the nhl "all star" game and tell them to change the name to the nhl "above average player" game? <p></p><i></i>

ghostfan
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:48 am

elite league

Post by ghostfan » Mon Sep 22, 2003 8:48 am

Where is all the info on this past weekends action. I heard Team SW beat Shattuck 3-1. Team NE beat Team ND 19-0, and one of the Team NW goalies stopped something like 99 of 100 shots. Are these numbers real? <p></p><i></i>

puckdoctor
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:03 am

elite league

Post by puckdoctor » Mon Sep 22, 2003 10:03 am

ghostfan, i was at new hope most of weekend and yes....shattuck did get beat, ne did beat nd 19-0,,nd has no business playing in this league with the kind of effort they put in this weekend..an the nw goalie..kid from blake..played great don't know if shots were that high.. but did only give up one goal...nw went 3-0 for the weekend..fulton kid had a 8-9 point..swanson from st.cloud looked good.... so nw had a good weekend..leauge is pretty balanced other than nd team..shattuck is not the team of the past few years either... <p></p><i></i>

mnhockey19
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:40 pm

SCORES FROM THIS WEEKEND

Post by mnhockey19 » Mon Sep 22, 2003 11:51 am

kowalkowski, from blake, did play very well. shattuck doesn't look as strong as they did last year. mainly the loss of smaby on D looks to be where the biggest hole is. although losing crosby doesn't help a whole lot either. shattuck just finalized their roster so they have some catching up to do. <br><br>the disadvantage the elite teams, or i mean the "fall league" teams have is they don't practice nearly as much as shattuck does. look for shattuck to improve dramatically in the next 3 weeks and hand SW a loss october 12 @ 12:15 in blaine. <p></p><i></i>

JLS 81
Posts: 386
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 3:08 pm

Shed a tear for Shattuck

Post by JLS 81 » Mon Sep 22, 2003 9:25 pm

What a shame to see the "vaunted" Shattuck team down this year especially when mommy and daddy are paying so much for junior to play hockey. <br>Anytime AHA plays Shattuck I want free tickets, a brat and soda in the AHA cheering section compliments of my good friend ZAMMAN. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START ;) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... s/wink.gif ALT=";)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>Next time anyone embelishes about Shattuck and wishes to lump that school in with Minnesota hockey. Well we need to open that one up for discussion on the ol' forum.<br> <p></p><i></i>

under a palm tree
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:04 am

Re: question

Post by under a palm tree » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:04 am

yo Dogmeat,<br><br>well i think missing a hockey game for a homecoming dance is a good excuse..if they have a date..golly these kids are in h.s. for only 4 years and need to experience the fun and socail life of it...most will be skating the rest of thier lives ..it could be just an old mans pick up league when they are 40 years old.. they are kids only 1 time..let them have fun with friends they have now...you do the math .. of all the "good hockey players" how many make it to the big show???? is it worth having a kid lose the fun from high school.. but what do i know.. just an old over the hill ex athlete<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START 8) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/intl/aenglish/im ... lasses.gif ALT="8)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub33.ezboard.com/bmnhs.showUser ... tree>under a palm tree</A> at: 9/23/03 8:09 am<br></i>

wilhelm
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:03 am

elite league

Post by wilhelm » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:03 am

lets face it the elite league is a good idea but the name is a joke as a large percentage of the players in it are nothing more than average hockey players. beaverson and anderson are good examples as neither of them were even the best on their high school team. beaverson had no choice but to go to green bay unless he wanted to continue at white bear on the third line and anderson was an even +/- player on a team that had their two best defensmen in the +30s. good luck to both of them they might make good practice players in college before they lose whatever scholarship money they get <p></p><i></i>

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