Wondering

Discussion of Minnesota Girls Youth Hockey

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zambonidriver
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Wondering

Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:08 am

I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.

Nevertoomuchhockey
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Post by Nevertoomuchhockey » Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:24 am

This should be its own board.

jg2112
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Re: Wondering

Post by jg2112 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:32 am

zambonidriver wrote:I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I think it's largely related to the coaches and parents, to be honest. The kids in the program are good kids - strong, talented, hard working, and motivated. If you get a coach who thinks he's Woody Hayes (most of the Orange coaches) and parents who whine (most hockey parents, let's be honest), the reputation develops.

I think the fact a fair number of the Machine girls play Choice League and have an edge to their play also doesn't help the reputation. What some folks would see as solid hockey (a clean rub out to the boards, for example), others call dirty because of the fact hockey is mostly contact-free for girls until u12. And that's too bad, because the way the Machine / Choice League girls play the game is how it's played in high school and (if they get that far) college.

Mavs
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Re: Wondering

Post by Mavs » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:43 am

jg2112 wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I think it's largely related to the coaches and parents, to be honest. The kids in the program are good kids - strong, talented, hard working, and motivated. If you get a coach who thinks he's Woody Hayes (most of the Orange coaches) and parents who whine (most hockey parents, let's be honest), the reputation develops.

I think the fact a fair number of the Machine girls play Choice League and have an edge to their play also doesn't help the reputation. What some folks would see as solid hockey (a clean rub out to the boards, for example), others call dirty because of the fact hockey is mostly contact-free for girls until u12. And that's too bad, because the way the Machine / Choice League girls play the game is how it's played in high school and (if they get that far) college.
I think the reputation for a model based on "winning" more than "development" has attracted coaches and parents with that same mindset. Is that accurate? Fair? Not sure but the perception is pretty prevalent with anyone you talk to. I don't get the same reaction about the Blades, OS and others.

jg2112
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Re: Wondering

Post by jg2112 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:57 am

Mavs wrote:
jg2112 wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I think it's largely related to the coaches and parents, to be honest. The kids in the program are good kids - strong, talented, hard working, and motivated. If you get a coach who thinks he's Woody Hayes (most of the Orange coaches) and parents who whine (most hockey parents, let's be honest), the reputation develops.

I think the fact a fair number of the Machine girls play Choice League and have an edge to their play also doesn't help the reputation. What some folks would see as solid hockey (a clean rub out to the boards, for example), others call dirty because of the fact hockey is mostly contact-free for girls until u12. And that's too bad, because the way the Machine / Choice League girls play the game is how it's played in high school and (if they get that far) college.
I think the reputation for a model based on "winning" more than "development" has attracted coaches and parents with that same mindset. Is that accurate? Fair? Not sure but the perception is pretty prevalent with anyone you talk to. I don't get the same reaction about the Blades, OS and others.
Which is a weird dichotomy in the program, because the Choice League is precisely the opposite. The whole point of the league is that the kids spend their time in practice on skating and skills, not on worrying about preparing for the next game.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:58 am

I agree for the most part as I was thinking about this Machine Oranage does everything we as player parents want our kids to do hustle,back check,get into hands, put a body on players, I think maybe it is the way they go about getting results which is very old school. They are using a competition model which is what high schools used to do and fell out of favor. One thing I don't agree with is yelling at players and refs. The only time a ref should be yelled at is if the safety of players is at risk. Here is the other thing, i think some of the parents think their child is the best hockey player on the team or at the age level and they believe everyone else thinks the same way. just sayin

HockeyDude20
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Post by HockeyDude20 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:23 am

zambonidriver, your last sentence is just oozing with irony. I love it. "Here is the other thing, i think some of the parents think their child is the best hockey player on the team or at the age level and they believe everyone else thinks the same way. just sayin"

Please refer to the link below:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32217[/quote]

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:31 am

HockeyDude20 wrote:zambonidriver, your last sentence is just oozing with irony. I love it. "Here is the other thing, i think some of the parents think their child is the best hockey player on the team or at the age level and they believe everyone else thinks the same way. just sayin"

Please refer to the link below:

http://www.ushsho.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=32217
[/quote]LOL you got me!!!! Looking forward to seeing you next weekend!

Snap Happy
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 7:39 pm

Re: Wondering

Post by Snap Happy » Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:58 pm

Mavs wrote:
jg2112 wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I think it's largely related to the coaches and parents, to be honest. The kids in the program are good kids - strong, talented, hard working, and motivated. If you get a coach who thinks he's Woody Hayes (most of the Orange coaches) and parents who whine (most hockey parents, let's be honest), the reputation develops.

I think the fact a fair number of the Machine girls play Choice League and have an edge to their play also doesn't help the reputation. What some folks would see as solid hockey (a clean rub out to the boards, for example), others call dirty because of the fact hockey is mostly contact-free for girls until u12. And that's too bad, because the way the Machine / Choice League girls play the game is how it's played in high school and (if they get that far) college.
I think the reputation for a model based on "winning" more than "development" has attracted coaches and parents with that same mindset. Is that accurate? Fair? Not sure but the perception is pretty prevalent with anyone you talk to. I don't get the same reaction about the Blades, OS and others.
I don't know if the "winning over development" statement is correct. Ive seen machine girls teams move up to the next level recently rather than stay down and win tournaments. Not sure how it was 5 yrs ago though.

Mavs
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Re: Wondering

Post by Mavs » Tue Aug 25, 2015 7:35 am

Snap Happy wrote:
Mavs wrote:
jg2112 wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:I was just thinking, (i know first time for everything) Why, and I admit I am a big offender the Machine program gets bashed so much as opposed to the other AAA girls programs? I know my reasons but I was just curious as to other peoples thoughts.
I think it's largely related to the coaches and parents, to be honest. The kids in the program are good kids - strong, talented, hard working, and motivated. If you get a coach who thinks he's Woody Hayes (most of the Orange coaches) and parents who whine (most hockey parents, let's be honest), the reputation develops.

I think the fact a fair number of the Machine girls play Choice League and have an edge to their play also doesn't help the reputation. What some folks would see as solid hockey (a clean rub out to the boards, for example), others call dirty because of the fact hockey is mostly contact-free for girls until u12. And that's too bad, because the way the Machine / Choice League girls play the game is how it's played in high school and (if they get that far) college.
I think the reputation for a model based on "winning" more than "development" has attracted coaches and parents with that same mindset. Is that accurate? Fair? Not sure but the perception is pretty prevalent with anyone you talk to. I don't get the same reaction about the Blades, OS and others.
I don't know if the "winning over development" statement is correct. Ive seen machine girls teams move up to the next level recently rather than stay down and win tournaments. Not sure how it was 5 yrs ago though.
The perception becomes the reality but it doesn't mean its actually a reality. It could be completely opposite. It could be jealousy, it could be one coach one year but not a program wide deal. If they get a lot of Edina, Eden Prairie, Minnetonka kids there is already a built in jealousy and bias before they hit the ice as a group, in my opinion.

I did have one guy tell me that it took about 2+ months to "get the machine out" of the kids on their team during association season. What he meant was the crazy structure they played with that he didn't want them playing with. Now again, grain of salt, we don't know if we are talking about one coach with mega structure or program philosophy. We also don't know what bias' or jealousy the guy I was talking to has personally to skew his view just like anyone.

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:38 am

Trying to understand why this thread was started in the first place?

Zambonidriver keeps bashing the program, has your daughter ever played for the machine? The world has enough haters.

Personally I have watched this Machine team that you have a problem with and I wish my daughter was good enough to be on the team. My daughter and her teammates could use a dose of "Mega Structure"

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:57 am

HockeyDad2015 wrote:Trying to understand why this thread was started in the first place?

Zambonidriver keeps bashing the program, has your daughter ever played for the machine? The world has enough haters.

Personally I have watched this Machine team that you have a problem with and I wish my daughter was good enough to be on the team. My daughter and her teammates could use a dose of "Mega Structure"
My daughter was invited to play on the 02 machine team we respectfully declined. I was very impressed by the practices and drills. I was not impressed by the old school approach to coaching for some people that is what works. I have seen multiple times where time outs have been called and the coaches have berated the kids on the bench in front of the crowd. I admit they are an excellent team which they proved at the OS shootout. I just don't agree with the way they get their results. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I am not bashful about stating mine people don't have to agree with me. I will say this my daughter and wife went to Europe with about 8 machine girls and the feed back I got from them was both the kids and the parents kept to themselves and this divide showed up as the tournament progressed. Ultimately costing them the tournament championship. Again just my humble opinion. There is no doubt everyone of those girls are very talented and excellent players..

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:14 am

So your daughter didn't play in the championship in Europe?

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:34 am

HockeyDad2015 wrote:So your daughter didn't play in the championship in Europe?
She did, they lost in overtime. Again in my opinion as i watched the game online there was definitely a lack of team play and chemistry. The feedback I received from multiple people was that once hockey started there was a definite split in the team between machine and non machine kids and parents. In tournament play you can usually get to a championship game based on talent but in the crunch you need that chemistry.

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:41 am

If that happened that's not good. How many families went to Europe?

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:49 am

You said you turned down playing for the Machine 02' Team? That had to be hard to do, like I said earlier I would've jumped on that opportunity.

Who's on that team? Where are they from? Just Edina, Minnetonka and Wayzata?

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:10 am

HockeyDad2015 wrote:If that happened that's not good. How many families went to Europe?
17 skaters 2 goalies

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:21 am

HockeyDad2015 wrote:You said you turned down playing for the Machine 02' Team? That had to be hard to do, like I said earlier I would've jumped on that opportunity.

Who's on that team? Where are they from? Just Edina, Minnetonka and Wayzata?
Andover also. Again my daughter has been asked to play for multiple teams. At one time she was playing for 3 teams. The blades Ice Cougars and OS. We have settled on Os their philosophy is catered to the girls as they are a girls only program. Winny has over 400 kids in her program and knows every kid by name. There are no systems she stress let the game teach them. Our team is mad up completely of kids going into 8th grade and they have won every tournament they have entered. The clash The Mountain Dew Blast and the Combat cup. They have also been pushed by playing older kids in the OS spring league and the OS scrimmage fest and the OS shoot out. Over the course of the AAA season I have seen the kids grow in their team play and creativity. They figured this stuff out without structured practice. Again to me the two best programs for girls are the Blades and OS! the problem with the Blades is other than Roger and Doc the girls are an after thought. OS is as Motley Crue would say girls, girls, girls.

Snap Happy
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Post by Snap Happy » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:27 am

zambonidriver wrote:
HockeyDad2015 wrote:So your daughter didn't play in the championship in Europe?
She did, they lost in overtime. Again in my opinion as i watched the game online there was definitely a lack of team play and chemistry. The feedback I received from multiple people was that once hockey started there was a definite split in the team between machine and non machine kids and parents. In tournament play you can usually get to a championship game based on talent but in the crunch you need that chemistry.
Chemistry can take time to develop -- it doesn't surprise me that the girls may have favored each other on the ice since that chemistry has already been established.

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:31 am

I've heard very good things about OS. Maybe I'll look into it for my daughter next year.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:32 am

Snap Happy wrote:
zambonidriver wrote:
HockeyDad2015 wrote:So your daughter didn't play in the championship in Europe?
She did, they lost in overtime. Again in my opinion as i watched the game online there was definitely a lack of team play and chemistry. The feedback I received from multiple people was that once hockey started there was a definite split in the team between machine and non machine kids and parents. In tournament play you can usually get to a championship game based on talent but in the crunch you need that chemistry.
Chemistry can take time to develop -- it doesn't surprise me that the girls may have favored each other on the ice since that chemistry has already been established.
Agreed, on a trip like that that's where the parents come in. Again I not only got this from my wife but other non machine parents on the trip. I quote it was like high school you were either a machine player or parent or you were an outsider.

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:34 am

HockeyDad2015 wrote:I've heard very good things about OS. Maybe I'll look into it for my daughter next year.
I would recommend it!! here is the link to fill out an interest form http://www.oshockey.org/page/show/18387 ... ement-info

HockeyDad2015
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Post by HockeyDad2015 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:37 am

Thank you

HockeyDude20
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Post by HockeyDude20 » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:00 am

zambonidriver, aren't teachers back to work yet?! Good lord...

zambonidriver
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Post by zambonidriver » Tue Aug 25, 2015 11:38 am

HockeyDude20 wrote:zambonidriver, aren't teachers back to work yet?! Good lord...
Recovering from surgery back next week.

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