Girls HS Hockey in Major Decline

[maristar]

Let's do the quick simple math, I prefer things simple

These numbers are from the same table of USA Hockey, only MN Girl stats

The foundation for girls hockey would be the youngsters (7/8 yr olds) when all the parents are excited and investing into their future D1 superstar. And then the late bloomers at 9-10 yrs old. But after that, not sure how many girls start playing at U12. By U12 everyone is sizing up their local HS program and will she be the 1st line star that can skip U15s to be on Varsity.

Year - 12-13 (Age) 9/10 yr olds: 2,124
Year - 13-14 (Age) 9/10 yr olds: 2,106
Year - 14-15 (Age) 9/10 yr olds: 1,995 every yr neg growth

Year - 12-13 (Age) 7/8 yr olds: 1,914
Year - 13-14 (Age) 7/8 yr olds: 1,896
Year - 14-15 (Age) 7/8 yr olds: 1,995 flat, neg, minimal growth

I guess I am confused, where are these amazing growth numbers for the State of Hockey that are the foundation for years to come?

8U Numbers Girls - right from Minnesotahockeyorg.com
You demonstrate record numbers for *U mites, How many of these were actually NEW for the year, not total? In 10-11 there were NEW girls of 1,752 and season 14-15 there were 1,744 NEW registered girls You are right amazing growth. There were more NEW girls for 2010 than 2015
Anyone can spine the numbers and Minnesota Hockey needs to based on the value of the game to our economy.

Can I call you the Spinnmaster

10-11 11-12 12-13 13-14 14-15
3757 3825 3608 3718 3901

-3.7% 1.8% -5.7% 3.0% 4.9%

NEW 1752 1676 1474 1710 1744

% 0.5% -4.3% -12.1% 16.0% 2.0%

RETAINED 2005 2149 2134 2008 2157
% -7.0% 7.2% -0.7% -5.9% 7.4%
LOST 620 686 704 657 677
% -8.4% 10.6% 2.6% -6.7% 3.0%

You got me- only new players equate to players who will continue on. Darn I thought I could get one by you. It has nothing to do with the total amount of players in the pool; heck if I were a coach that would be the first thing I asked at tryouts, If you are new player you are on the team, anyone who has played before, you are off the team. Brilliant concept of the pyramid.

Please explain how 3,901 is less than 3757, 3825, 3608 and 3718.

Jethro Bodine must have been goesinta and ciphering this one.

[thegreatone99]

You got me- only new players equate to players who will continue on. Darn I thought I could get one by you. It has nothing to do with the total amount of players in the pool; heck if I were a coach that would be the first thing I asked at tryouts, If you are new player you are on the team, anyone who has played before, you are off the team. Brilliant concept of the pyramid.

Please explain how 3,901 is less than 3757, 3825, 3608 and 3718.

Jethro Bodine must have been goesinta and ciphering this one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Qj65oR40M

[thegreatone99]

Here is a good question regarding numbers and growth


In the last three years how many HS girls hockey teams were new?


In the last three years how many HS girls teams co-op'd?


What does this represent for growth?


Spin the numbers all you want, if we have record growth as mentioned by others, why are the HS programs not growing versus contraction? Why are some community associations like White Bear or Roseville not able to field teams at each level both B and A teams?

[rwb1351]

Here is a good question regarding numbers and growth


In the last three years how many HS girls hockey teams were new?


In the last three years how many HS girls teams co-op'd?


What does this represent for growth?


Spin the numbers all you want, if we have record growth as mentioned by others, why are the HS programs not growing versus contraction? Why are some community associations like White Bear or Roseville not able to field teams at each level both B and A teams?

The numbers stated above are U8 numbers going back to 2010, meaning those girls would be 13 at most. You won't see the impact of that growth for a few years.

Admittedly, once a team folds, it is hard to get it to come back.

But seriously, you need to relax. You've picked your bone. We all get it. Many people have laid out extremely compelling arguments for you that outline some of the unique challenges girls' hockey faces. You have chosen to ignore most of those arguments and continue to harp on the same points over and over.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

[Defensive Zone]

This isn't a HS issue. The issue is the money, time, and effort put into youth hockey (in that order). AAA hockey has created an easy network for the best kids to meet at a young age. They become friends and end up wanting to play high school with the best players, be it a mega public school or a private school. The haves and the have nots are basically already created and the gap is widening. The disparity in quality programs is a sad reality, but until the cost of youth hockey comes down its only going to get worse.

I know we have had this discussion before, but the expense for kids to play youth hockey is/has created a number issue for different high school girls programs in the state. Just recently, I had a conversation with a Lakeville (LHA) board member about how the numbers in their girls youth hockey program has diminished in Lakeville. He was telling me in their developmental programs for girls, they offer an introductory program (which most associations do) on "How to play hockey". At the end, 7 girls were offered a spot on a lower team. Sounds great until the bill came. Four girls declined the offer. He also told me if these number don't increase in LHA, the two high schools will be a coop team in 5-6 years.

[thegreatone99]

This isn't a HS issue. The issue is the money, time, and effort put into youth hockey (in that order). AAA hockey has created an easy network for the best kids to meet at a young age. They become friends and end up wanting to play high school with the best players, be it a mega public school or a private school. The haves and the have nots are basically already created and the gap is widening. The disparity in quality programs is a sad reality, but until the cost of youth hockey comes down its only going to get worse.

I know we have had this discussion before, but the expense for kids to play youth hockey is/has created a number issue for different high school girls programs in the state. Just recently, I had a conversation with a Lakeville (LHA) board member about how the numbers in their girls youth hockey program has diminished in Lakeville. He was telling me in their developmental programs for girls, they offer an introductory program (which most associations do) on "How to play hockey". At the end, 7 girls were offered a spot on a lower team. Sounds great until the bill came. Four girls declined the offer. He also told me if these number don't increase in LHA, the two high schools will be a coop team in 5-6 years.

Preposterous - this can't be true, Darkstar stated there are no such numbers or cases at the youth level to make such a statement. Maybe this could go to KFAN's 2016 preposterous tournament challenge

[Ironrange79]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

[nu2hockey]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

[Ironrange79]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

A friend of mine I played college hockey with coaches D1 girls hockey out east. He has mentioned that most of the Minnesota girls are not very receptive of moving out east to play hockey for whatever reason, thus eliminating 2/3's of the D1 schools. Making the transition to play out east if more difficult, is if the offer is only a partial scholarship.

[Bulldog3489]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

Apples to oranges. The 18.4% number includes all the leagues in WHAM. Lots of former NCAA players still playing.

[jg2112]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

A friend of mine I played college hockey with coaches D1 girls hockey out east. He has mentioned that most of the Minnesota girls are not very receptive of moving out east to play hockey for whatever reason, thus eliminating 2/3's of the D1 schools. Making the transition to play out east if more difficult, is if the offer is only a partial scholarship.

I think the cost is a significant part of it.

Seeing as how there are very, very few post-hockey options for female hockey players, it may be very tough for families to accept the idea that they should sustain $100,000+ in student debt to play for a place like Boston College "on scholarship," where tuition, fees, R & B is over $60K a year. I think that's especially true when a player could get awarded enough aid to go to a local D3 school (UWRF, for example), play in front of a similar number of fans (recent attendance for a BC game was 529, for UWRF was 180), and be potentially debt free after college and in a good position for post-grad scholarships.

[Hansonbrother]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

A friend of mine I played college hockey with coaches D1 girls hockey out east. He has mentioned that most of the Minnesota girls are not very receptive of moving out east to play hockey for whatever reason, thus eliminating 2/3's of the D1 schools. Making the transition to play out east if more difficult, is if the offer is only a partial scholarship.

I think that is only partially correct. Out east has only until recently started going after Minnesota kids. Like USA hockey, the eastern schools pride themselves in producing the best female hockey players....until the 5 years when the Whitecaps have continually started to show up their best teams. Now that Winny has bridged the gap with the eastern schools, I believe you will start to see more and more Minnesota kids heading out that way...Look at Penn State and Yale and Princeton and others, they are starting to grab as many Minnesota kids that are not being landed by the 5 Div 1 schools in MN.

[Hansonbrother]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

A friend of mine I played college hockey with coaches D1 girls hockey out east. He has mentioned that most of the Minnesota girls are not very receptive of moving out east to play hockey for whatever reason, thus eliminating 2/3's of the D1 schools. Making the transition to play out east if more difficult, is if the offer is only a partial scholarship.

I think that is only partially correct. Out east has only until recently started going after Minnesota kids. Like USA hockey, the eastern schools pride themselves in producing the best female hockey players....until the 5 years when the Whitecaps have continually started to show up their best teams. Now that Winny has bridged the gap with the eastern schools, I believe you will start to see more and more Minnesota kids heading out that way...Look at Penn State and Yale and Princeton and others, they are starting to grab as many Minnesota kids that are not being landed by the 5 Div 1 schools in MN.

[Nevertoomuchhockey]

At this point, I need to pose the question - WHY.

Rip on the coaches. Check.
Rip on the MSHSL and private schools. Check.
Rip on talented student athletes and their families for making decisions different from yours. Check.
Rip on MN Hockey and both association and tier based models. Check.
Hammer home your doom and gloom about the state of the game going into the best hockey month of the year and kill this forum at the same time. Check check check check check.

I hope greatone/itsfoil can move along from his obsession here and actually contribute something to the girls side of the game. I think we have all long wondered WHY you even bother to come on as a "fan" with nothing but negative. Many/most of us have served on our local boards, volunteered in the name of hockey in our communities, and in a hundred other ways tried to help our kids grow in hockey and at the same time grow in kindness and humility and pride and work ethic and morality. To be the kind of kids and families other kids and families want to invest time with.

I don't really care whether or what you've done for the state of girls hockey. I can see that pretty clearly just by your agenda here. But on behalf of all the posters who've dropped out of sight because they couldn't stomach one more of the same circularly reasoned rants, I hope you look back someday when your kids have their own non-hockey playing kids and realize you wrote that ending for your damn self.

Then ask WHY.

[massalsa]

BOOM!!

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_art ... _id=710946

Interesting points:

18.4% of USA registrants,but, only 16.4% of D1

D1:

846 Total

363 Tier 1
344 Outside USA(mainly Canada)
139 Minnesota( includes MSHSL & Mn girls playing Tier1)


for a 4 year group Mn averages 35/yr from about 115 teams

I believe Mn should be doing better, the question is why do so few go D1

I just read the "boom" piece on "The State of Girls' Hockey" and think that you are missing something on the 18.4% of USA registrants are from Minnesota and 16.4% of D1 are from Minnesota.

16.4% is of ALL D1 hockey players. 502/846 D1 players ARE AMERICAN. So that means that 27.7% of all AMERICAN D1 players are Minnesotans.

[thegreatone99]

At this point, I need to pose the question - WHY.

Rip on the coaches. Check.
Rip on the MSHSL and private schools. Check.
Rip on talented student athletes and their families for making decisions different from yours. Check.
Rip on MN Hockey and both association and tier based models. Check.
Hammer home your doom and gloom about the state of the game going into the best hockey month of the year and kill this forum at the same time. Check check check check check.

I hope greatone/itsfoil can move along from his obsession here and actually contribute something to the girls side of the game. I think we have all long wondered WHY you even bother to come on as a "fan" with nothing but negative. Many/most of us have served on our local boards, volunteered in the name of hockey in our communities, and in a hundred other ways tried to help our kids grow in hockey and at the same time grow in kindness and humility and pride and work ethic and morality. To be the kind of kids and families other kids and families want to invest time with.

I don't really care whether or what you've done for the state of girls hockey. I can see that pretty clearly just by your agenda here. But on behalf of all the posters who've dropped out of sight because they couldn't stomach one more of the same circularly reasoned rants, I hope you look back someday when your kids have their own non-hockey playing kids and realize you wrote that ending for your damn self.

Then ask WHY.

It is pretty simple NTMH, I just got so feed up with all the political BS and grandstanding by the self-righteous stating they are doing it for the good of the game on here. What a bunch of political BS, all is good until their little Suzie gets cut, benched, demoted whatever, and is the coaches fault, or something else, just look at the BS going after Cretin coaches, what a joke. And for anyone who really thinks it is fun to watch a private school breeze through the entire field, yeah that was a fun exercise in parity.

This exercise or post topic generated over 25,000 views, easily becoming one of the most read topics in the forum. The game is declining in numbers plain and simple at the youngest levels. Many factors are contributing to this decline including cost which is getting extremely high, and there are other factors. When did you see a 12A State tournament like this year's first round games? Look who won and by what score and tell me that the game is healthy without any of haves dominating the nots. This is your future HS. The amount of politically wrangling that starts at the 12 level to position for HS is disgusting.

It's the parents that have ruined the game, and the majority will coach or donate time to the association to better position their kid or ensure their kid is on the top team. So stop with that angle about what they do to support the game. It's all for an agenda. One biostorous poster could not handle the fact their team was beat. It was the refs, or a disallowed goal, but no responsibility the best team won on that night. I think that argument was settled with a Championship trophy!

Take it for what it is now, girls hockey is unique to MN, our economy receives a lot of benefits from this and it is on our best interest to promote it. I find it funny how MN Hockey is publishing girls growth stats and articles about growth etc. When have they ever done this before? Makes me wonder how 25,0000 + views have created interest at a much higher level.

You have no clue on my agenda NTMH, so don't pretend you do.. Check Check Check

[Bulldog3489]

At this point, I need to pose the question - WHY.

Rip on the coaches. Check.
Rip on the MSHSL and private schools. Check.
Rip on talented student athletes and their families for making decisions different from yours. Check.
Rip on MN Hockey and both association and tier based models. Check.
Hammer home your doom and gloom about the state of the game going into the best hockey month of the year and kill this forum at the same time. Check check check check check.

I hope greatone/itsfoil can move along from his obsession here and actually contribute something to the girls side of the game. I think we have all long wondered WHY you even bother to come on as a "fan" with nothing but negative. Many/most of us have served on our local boards, volunteered in the name of hockey in our communities, and in a hundred other ways tried to help our kids grow in hockey and at the same time grow in kindness and humility and pride and work ethic and morality. To be the kind of kids and families other kids and families want to invest time with.

I don't really care whether or what you've done for the state of girls hockey. I can see that pretty clearly just by your agenda here. But on behalf of all the posters who've dropped out of sight because they couldn't stomach one more of the same circularly reasoned rants, I hope you look back someday when your kids have their own non-hockey playing kids and realize you wrote that ending for your damn self.

Then ask WHY.

It is pretty simple NTMH, I just got so feed up with all the political BS and grandstanding by the self-righteous stating they are doing it for the good of the game on here. What a bunch of political BS, all is good until their little Suzie gets cut, benched, demoted whatever, and is the coaches fault, or something else, just look at the BS going after Cretin coaches, what a joke. And for anyone who really thinks it is fun to watch a private school breeze through the entire field, yeah that was a fun exercise in parity.

This exercise or post topic generated over 25,000 views, easily becoming one of the most read topics in the forum. The game is declining in numbers plain and simple at the youngest levels. Many factors are contributing to this decline including cost which is getting extremely high, and there are other factors. When did you see a 12A State tournament like this year's first round games? Look who won and by what score and tell me that the game is healthy without any of haves dominating the nots. This is your future HS. The amount of politically wrangling that starts at the 12 level to position for HS is disgusting.

It's the parents that have ruined the game, and the majority will coach or donate time to the association to better position their kid or ensure their kid is on the top team. So stop with that angle about what they do to support the game. It's all for an agenda. One biostorous poster could not handle the fact their team was beat. It was the refs, or a disallowed goal, but no responsibility the best team won on that night. I think that argument was settled with a Championship trophy!

Take it for what it is now, girls hockey is unique to MN, our economy receives a lot of benefits from this and it is on our best interest to promote it. I find it funny how MN Hockey is publishing girls growth stats and articles about growth etc. When have they ever done this before? Makes me wonder how 25,0000 + views have created interest at a much higher level.

You have no clue on my agenda NTMH, so don't pretend you do.. Check Check Check

Maybe you just trolled a bunch of people and made them hate Wayne Gretzky and start to feel bad for Blake.

[Ironrange79]

At this point, I need to pose the question - WHY.

Rip on the coaches. Check.
Rip on the MSHSL and private schools. Check.
Rip on talented student athletes and their families for making decisions different from yours. Check.
Rip on MN Hockey and both association and tier based models. Check.
Hammer home your doom and gloom about the state of the game going into the best hockey month of the year and kill this forum at the same time. Check check check check check.

I hope greatone/itsfoil can move along from his obsession here and actually contribute something to the girls side of the game. I think we have all long wondered WHY you even bother to come on as a "fan" with nothing but negative. Many/most of us have served on our local boards, volunteered in the name of hockey in our communities, and in a hundred other ways tried to help our kids grow in hockey and at the same time grow in kindness and humility and pride and work ethic and morality. To be the kind of kids and families other kids and families want to invest time with.

I don't really care whether or what you've done for the state of girls hockey. I can see that pretty clearly just by your agenda here. But on behalf of all the posters who've dropped out of sight because they couldn't stomach one more of the same circularly reasoned rants, I hope you look back someday when your kids have their own non-hockey playing kids and realize you wrote that ending for your damn self.

Then ask WHY.

It is pretty simple NTMH, I just got so feed up with all the political BS and grandstanding by the self-righteous stating they are doing it for the good of the game on here. What a bunch of political BS, all is good until their little Suzie gets cut, benched, demoted whatever, and is the coaches fault, or something else, just look at the BS going after Cretin coaches, what a joke. And for anyone who really thinks it is fun to watch a private school breeze through the entire field, yeah that was a fun exercise in parity.

This exercise or post topic generated over 25,000 views, easily becoming one of the most read topics in the forum. The game is declining in numbers plain and simple at the youngest levels. Many factors are contributing to this decline including cost which is getting extremely high, and there are other factors. When did you see a 12A State tournament like this year's first round games? Look who won and by what score and tell me that the game is healthy without any of haves dominating the nots. This is your future HS. The amount of politically wrangling that starts at the 12 level to position for HS is disgusting.

It's the parents that have ruined the game, and the majority will coach or donate time to the association to better position their kid or ensure their kid is on the top team. So stop with that angle about what they do to support the game. It's all for an agenda. One biostorous poster could not handle the fact their team was beat. It was the refs, or a disallowed goal, but no responsibility the best team won on that night. I think that argument was settled with a Championship trophy!

Take it for what it is now, girls hockey is unique to MN, our economy receives a lot of benefits from this and it is on our best interest to promote it. I find it funny how MN Hockey is publishing girls growth stats and articles about growth etc. When have they ever done this before? Makes me wonder how 25,0000 + views have created interest at a much higher level.

You have no clue on my agenda NTMH, so don't pretend you do.. Check Check Check

99, If Karl (East) were alive today you would have been locked out of this blog long ago. A car accident gathers the most viewers on the highway. You justify your comments based on views. This has the most views because good hockey people are trying to have a discussion about our great game. Your vile and venom sickens us Rangers that hockey is a part of our culture whether we have 10 kids or 100 kids in our program. We battle city schools and privates much to no prevail. We don't complain, we just try to get better.

You started this post and have posted 125 times. Perhaps this has drug on so long because we have many guardians of gates, trying to keep you out of our sacred game and arenas.

[thegreatone99]

99, If Karl (East) were alive today you would have been locked out of this blog long ago. A car accident gathers the most viewers on the highway. You justify your comments based on views. This has the most views because good hockey people are trying to have a discussion about our great game. Your vile and venom sickens us Rangers that hockey is a part of our culture whether we have 10 kids or 100 kids in our program. We battle city schools and privates much to no prevail. We don't complain, we just try to get better.

You started this post and have posted 125 times. Perhaps this has drug on so long because we have many guardians of gates, trying to keep you out of our sacred game and arenas.[/quote]

Thank you, over 26,000 + views now

[thegreatone99]

[thegreatone99]

Stillwater

[thegreatone99]

Stillwater

What a sad state for hockey when this happens to a once mighty 2 time state champion

Tim J · 23 days
He is s really good coach. He was hands on at all levels of the hockey program, made sure there was a system in place. While they were down a little from past years they still were a decent team. Parents start to question the coach because the season is not as good as past. He down right got shafted. I see Cretin had a opening, I am curious if he wants that job with a team full of sophomores last year.
Reply
bentheredonedat · 25 days
It fully rests on the poor administration of the athletic director who is a great teacher, great coach, but a poor administrator and athletic director...over his head dealing with parents
Reply
Tom · 25 days
Having had 3 kids play hockey at association level and 2 later at high school, I always was a little embarrassed by the behavior of hockey parents. I often said that if you son or daughter were A players, all the parents were insane. B level (want a bee's) most parents. C level parents were pretty normal. Did not prioritize hockey over school, church, etc. Many parent's thought they new better than the coaches. One year we had 3 coaches at Pewee A level. All former college players, one … Read More
Reply
Tom J 98 · 25 days
As an excelled player myself from the mid 70's and into 30+ years of coaching to follow, I could see this happening and blame the fact of parents demands that all kids play traveling hockey. If you were to go back 40 years, not all made the traveling teams. At the different levels, you might have had 300-400 kids trying out to make 3 teams. An A, B, and C team. All others who didn't make it were then passed on to what was called "recreational" hockey leagues. Once this transition took place, … Read More
Reply
Calvin4219 · 25 days
Parents ruin many sporting events and teams.
Reply
eddyd · 25 days
Stillwater girls hockey parents should be ashamed. Find another coach that delivers the record he has. What a joke. How long before the next coach leaves in disgust because parents think they know better. I'm curious just how many of these hockey parents have even played the game, let alone coach it.
Reply
happypuck · 25 days
I feel for coach. It's too bad parents can't stay out of the way and just let their kids enjoy the game, the comraderie and the competition. I grew up playing hockey in White Bear Lake back in the 60s and 70s. Played high school hockey and continue to play pick up games. I also coached squirt and peewee teams for 6 years. Back when I played the parents generally were hands off, letting the coaches do their thing. Today, parents are vicariously living their dreams through their kids and … Read More
Reply