Elite League Rosters

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WestMetro
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Elite League Rosters

Post by WestMetro » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:13 am

Comments/surprises?

northwoods oldtimer
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Re: Elite League Rosters

Post by northwoods oldtimer » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:53 am

WestMetro wrote:Comments/surprises?
Curious what years that EL went away from Seniors and move towards adding so many Sophomores? Wasn't original intent of the league to keep Seniors from moving off to junior level?

BP
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Post by BP » Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:23 pm

Why even announce a Team CCM when they have 3 games scheduled (first weekend)? I get they are a feeder to other teams - why doesn't each team just have alternates?

kniven
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Post by kniven » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:47 pm

BP wrote:Why even announce a Team CCM when they have 3 games scheduled (first weekend)? I get they are a feeder to other teams - why doesn't each team just have alternates?
So the kids on ccm don't play a regular schedule.....they are extras. Hmmm. Didn't know that. I guess that's why they never have many games.

Duluth East has 12 and zero of them are on the ccm extra players team. Is that a record or something? That's pretty much the entire varsity team.

WarmUpTheBus
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Post by WarmUpTheBus » Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:51 pm

Metro west conference players chosen including CCM team:
SLP 3
Chaska 2
BSM 1
Jefferson 0

pekyman
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Post by pekyman » Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:14 pm

kniven wrote:
BP wrote:Why even announce a Team CCM when they have 3 games scheduled (first weekend)? I get they are a feeder to other teams - why doesn't each team just have alternates?
So the kids on ccm don't play a regular schedule.....they are extras. Hmmm. Didn't know that. I guess that's why they never have many games.

Duluth East has 12 and zero of them are on the ccm extra players team. Is that a record or something? That's pretty much the entire varsity team.
I count East with 11 Total with 1 on the CCM Team.
Edina has 10 with 1 on CCM Team.
STA and Tonka have 9 with 2 on CCM
HT was loaded last year with 7 or 8. Only 4 this year with 1 on CCM.
Greenway has 3!

Looks like Year of the HOUND!

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:11 pm

Northwoods, my feeling is the younger kids just keep getting better and better with the increased and younger youth on ice training and dryland. As far as keeping them from going elsewhere, the younger kids also have options ---i.e. Ann Arbor . The before and after USHL option has also helped retain seniors

GoldenBear
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Post by GoldenBear » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:23 pm

A little surprised that only three Trojans selected. Three other kids I thought had a good chance to make it--especially Bergsland-- but hard to crack the Edina juggernaut. G Anderson must be doing before and after in Green Bay as I don't see him on elite roster, but there is a log jam of defense up there I was told so looks like he will be back with Trojans for senior year. Not completely convinced either Schmidt or Ness will be with Trojans this year. Excited about Trojans Summer showing. GB

BP
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Post by BP » Fri Jul 28, 2017 3:50 pm

GoldenBear wrote:A little surprised that only three Trojans selected. Three other kids I thought had a good chance to make it--especially Bergsland-- but hard to crack the Edina juggernaut. G Anderson must be doing before and after in Green Bay as I don't see him on elite roster, but there is a log jam of defense up there I was told so looks like he will be back with Trojans for senior year. Not completely convinced either Schmidt or Ness will be with Trojans this year. Excited about Trojans Summer showing. GB
Lots of before and after - and people have to remember that kids are playing on Fall Blades teams and various AAA teams to try and qualify for nationals in the spring.

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Fri Jul 28, 2017 4:14 pm

A bit surprised at some of the goalie names, and some returning starting AA goalies, with strong SOS, which are not there. Two in particular. Maybe there are other circumstances. And I think the goaltending group this year may have more balance , and there is a need for broad representation.

formersection3Afan
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Post by formersection3Afan » Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:38 pm

GoldenBear wrote:A little surprised that only three Trojans selected. Three other kids I thought had a good chance to make it--especially Bergsland-- but hard to crack the Edina juggernaut. G Anderson must be doing before and after in Green Bay as I don't see him on elite roster, but there is a log jam of defense up there I was told so looks like he will be back with Trojans for senior year. Not completely convinced either Schmidt or Ness will be with Trojans this year. Excited about Trojans Summer showing. GB
Can they do a B4 & After with a player on the affiliate list or do they need to be on the 30 man?

WestMetro
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Post by WestMetro » Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:42 am

BP , would you mind starting a list of USHL before and Afters, blades, other AAA, and undecideds up in the air?

hockey59
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Post by hockey59 » Sat Jul 29, 2017 1:03 pm

WestMetro wrote:Northwoods, my feeling is the younger kids just keep getting better and better with the increased and younger youth on ice training and dryland. As far as keeping them from going elsewhere, the younger kids also have options ---i.e. Ann Arbor . The before and after USHL option has also helped retain seniors
While there is certainly truth in what WM is saying about training changes during the past 10 years & kids getting better at an earlier age...the philosophy of having a league dominated by Juniors & Seniors has also clearly changed and become younger. To put this in perspective...my oldest son played EL on Team NW Fall 2006, they finished with the best record during the regular season...and of the 23 players, 21 were Juniors & Seniors. Just one sophomore & one freshman on the team...Nick Jensen & Nate Schmidt...both now play in the NHL :)

kniven
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Post by kniven » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:45 pm

hockey59 wrote:
WestMetro wrote:Northwoods, my feeling is the younger kids just keep getting better and better with the increased and younger youth on ice training and dryland. As far as keeping them from going elsewhere, the younger kids also have options ---i.e. Ann Arbor . The before and after USHL option has also helped retain seniors
While there is certainly truth in what WM is saying about training changes during the past 10 years & kids getting better at an earlier age...the philosophy of having a league dominated by Juniors & Seniors has also clearly changed and become younger. To put this in perspective...my oldest son played EL on Team NW Fall 2006, they finished with the best record during the regular season...and of the 23 players, 21 were Juniors & Seniors. Just one sophomore & one freshman on the team...Nick Jensen & Nate Schmidt...both now play in the NHL :)
so how many years before 8th and 9th graders on the elite rosters?? 7th grade?

mulefarm
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Post by mulefarm » Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:49 pm

Does the NHL put any money into the Elite League?

BP
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Post by BP » Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:44 am

mulefarm wrote:Does the NHL put any money into the Elite League?

No

WarmUpTheBus
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Post by WarmUpTheBus » Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:21 am

WestMetro wrote:Northwoods, my feeling is the younger kids just keep getting better and better with the increased and younger youth on ice training and dryland. As far as keeping them from going elsewhere, the younger kids also have options ---i.e. Ann Arbor . The before and after USHL option has also helped retain seniors
I believe when the Elite League started one of the objectives was to give kids an alternative way of playing more games against good competition in an attempt to keep them from going to juniors. As a consequence the stands are filled with junior scouts and I'm sure they're not just looking at Seniors.

kniven
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Re: Elite League Rosters

Post by kniven » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:31 pm

i started following high school hockey in 2007 when I moved to Esko from Duluth (woodland). My question is this...what high school hockey teams in 218 have rolled 4 lines most consistently since 2007. I would think Duluth East and Hermantown top that list by a lot with Grand Rapids a distant 3rd and then a void.

And, what % of AA teams state wide generally roll 4 lines consistently year to year. And what the % of A teams state wide roll 4 lines consistently.

To me, it seems most AA teams roll 3 and 4 if they have to. Single A teams seem to roll 2 and 3 if they have to. And this is typically why A can't compete with AA teams because of the number of lines they typically roll onto the ice.

yesiplayedhockey
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Re: Elite League Rosters

Post by yesiplayedhockey » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:52 pm

I would say almost all the elite teams in the state stick to skating 2 1/2 to 3 lines per game... 1..2..3..1..2..1.2.3. Obviously I'm counting special teams in with that as most kids on the first line will skate PP1 and PK1

At many schools, the 4th lines play swing line so they've already played 3 periods in the JV game before. At best they get a couple shifts at the end of a 3rd period blowout

In general, if there were 20 shifts in a period I'd say

First line gets 9-10
Second line gets 6-7
Third line gets 4-5

kniven wrote:i started following high school hockey in 2007 when I moved to Esko from Duluth (woodland). My question is this...what high school hockey teams in 218 have rolled 4 lines most consistently since 2007. I would think Duluth East and Hermantown top that list by a lot with Grand Rapids a distant 3rd and then a void.

And, what % of AA teams state wide generally roll 4 lines consistently year to year. And what the % of A teams state wide roll 4 lines consistently.

To me, it seems most AA teams roll 3 and 4 if they have to. Single A teams seem to roll 2 and 3 if they have to. And this is typically why A can't compete with AA teams because of the number of lines they typically roll onto the ice.

kniven
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Re: Elite League Rosters

Post by kniven » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:04 pm

yesiplayedhockey wrote:I would say almost all the elite teams in the state stick to skating 2 1/2 to 3 lines per game... 1..2..3..1..2..1.2.3. Obviously I'm counting special teams in with that as most kids on the first line will skate PP1 and PK1

At many schools, the 4th lines play swing line so they've already played 3 periods in the JV game before. At best they get a couple shifts at the end of a 3rd period blowout

In general, if there were 20 shifts in a period I'd say

First line gets 9-10
Second line gets 6-7
Third line gets 4-5

Thanks for the info YIPH. Another question. Can seniors skate on the jv? So typically the 4th line is the top line on jv. If a kid skates the entire jv game, is there a limit to what the kid can skate in the varsity game. So do teams eve have 4 lines just skating varsity and no jv?

kniven wrote:i started following high school hockey in 2007 when I moved to Esko from Duluth (woodland). My question is this...what high school hockey teams in 218 have rolled 4 lines most consistently since 2007. I would think Duluth East and Hermantown top that list by a lot with Grand Rapids a distant 3rd and then a void.

And, what % of AA teams state wide generally roll 4 lines consistently year to year. And what the % of A teams state wide roll 4 lines consistently.

To me, it seems most AA teams roll 3 and 4 if they have to. Single A teams seem to roll 2 and 3 if they have to. And this is typically why A can't compete with AA teams because of the number of lines they typically roll onto the ice.

yesiplayedhockey
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Post by yesiplayedhockey » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:20 am

I'm not 100% sure on the rules but I think kids are limited to 4 periods of play. So if they play the entire 3 periods of JV they can play only 1 period of varsity. I have no idea how they enforce that rule or if anyone has been caught breaking that rule.... Anyone know?

I would guess there are some teams out there that skate 4 lines during a game but I'm almost certain they don't roll 4...Even the big programs like Edina and tonka would suffer a notch if they rolled 4 on a regular basis. I would say in big games and playoffs you may see the first and second line dominate 75-80% of the ice time

As far as seniors playing JV I think it's left up to each team to have their own policy (versus a Minnesota mandate). I'm guessing most say that your Senior year you either make varsity or get cut and play Junior gold.

Again I'm not 100% sure on this so help from others if I'm incorrect would be greatly appreciated

BP
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Post by BP » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:15 am

You can only play 4 periods, per day. It's not heavily enforced or watched- more of policing your own teams. Some of the smaller Class A programs with low numbers, I think kids play more than 4 and both teams agree to let it go, so they can fill out a team.

There are some teams that have played 4 lines in recent memory - Wayzata, Edina, and Duluth East come to mind from a AA perspective. Not very common, but it happens from time to time. Some of those bigger programs, there isn't much drop off between 3rd and 4th line. It's a nice luxury to have a 4th line that you can play - so they can come out after a PP or PK when lines are all jumbled up.

karl(east)
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Post by karl(east) » Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:49 pm

Note that I have deleted several posts (one in particular being the egregious offender) that were attempting to hijack the thread, and will continue to do so, if not more.

As for rolling 4 lines, my memory basically matches BP's...Edina and East do it from time to time when they have the depth and also don't have elite top lines that they want to keep on the ice a lot. Wayzata has started doing it recently and did it with great effect...they were using that 4th line in the dying minutes of the state championship game 2 years ago, which was impressively bold. Hill on some occasions has done it, I believe, but not much. I can't think of any other team that I've seen play a 4th line with any consistency in a situation where a game is actually on the line.

As for seniors, yes, they can play JV, but a number of coaches shy away from keeping them...they want those JV spots for kids who could plausibly contribute at varsity in a year or two, and there's some risk of weird dynamics if a senior has stuck with the program for a while but still isn't getting varsity ice time. (Sometimes it's easier to just cut than deal with a locker room issue.) A number of other coaches, even those who have big numbers, would rather have a 4th line of underclassmen getting more playing time on JV than sitting around on the bench at the varsity level and only skating a couple of shifts. When East has used a 4th line with regularity, it's often been made up of reliable, hardworking seniors who have earned their dues and have nothing to gain from playing lots of JV.

SquirtC'00
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Post by SquirtC'00 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:38 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong here Karl but in my memory most of the time when a senior is playing JV he's either the 2nd or 3rd goalie or an 8th defenseman getting ice time. I've found it rare to see a senior forward on JV.

kniven
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Post by kniven » Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:57 pm

Thanks for the info! I had no clue what was typical regarding lines and seniors.

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