Chaz and Cruz Lucius commit to Gophers

[lostmyonlypuckindasnow]

So does this, like the guy above asked, mean that the kids/parents/representatives who verbally commit at this young age can't initiate contact with other D1 schools and the other schools aren't supposed to respond to them until the kids tell the school they are un-committing? Even if they un-committed, it seems like the school couldn't say anything at this age level. It seems like it's just chatter. It'd be bad form and I'm sure they'd get a rep if they verbally commit to a different program each fall, and is that all this means? That's a question that is relevant to HS hockey players.

Based on what people are saying, I can''t believe scholarship money to the U of M would really be a motivating factor for this family, they just want the best and highest-profile program. I don't think they could have bought a rink at Vadnais (thought it's owned by the county now), but they sure rent a lot of ice there from what's been on the boards at the rink.

[northwoods oldtimer]

The entire college hockey recruiting process is getting to be downright laughable.

[SCBlueLiner]

Anybody else have/had kids this age, pre-puberty through the teen years? Yeah, me too. There is A LOT of stuff that happens through those years and A LOT of things change. I've heard these kids names over the years and I'm sure they are very good, even elite youth hockey players, but it's a long road through the next 5-7 years.

This reminds me of the conversation between Mike Modano and Gordon Bombay in the Mighty Ducks movie when Modano said that Bombay "killed it in Pee Wees". Umm, if you've ever played the game you know that wasn't a compliment.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

The entire college hockey recruiting process is getting to be downright laughable.

It would have to improve to reach the level of laughable.

[lostmyonlypuckindasnow]

[quote="SCBlueLiner"] Mike Modano and Gordon Bombay in the Mighty Ducks movie when Modano said that Bombay "killed it in Pee Wees".[/quote]

I youtubed it because hadn't heard it was in that movie, good stuff: "This guy used to Rule in peewees...." topped with by Basil McRae's , "Oh yeah? I heard you were a farmer...."

Today it'd have to be something like "He was the high-scorer in the Mite National Championships," cause it looks like real 12u talent can't play anything short of national anymore. Big fish, indeed. I still want to know if they are supposed to un-commit before approaching other schools.

[The Exiled One]

So does this, like the guy above asked, mean that the kids/parents/representatives who verbally commit at this young age can't initiate contact with other D1 schools and the other schools aren't supposed to respond to them until the kids tell the school they are un-committing?

The players can do anything they want. I would imagine other programs might be receptive to their inquiries too, but if they are abiding by the Gentlemen's Agreement, they won't extend an offer until the player has publicly de-committed.

"Thanks for showing interest in our program. I'd love to talk to you about your future plans should you decide that your current commitment is no longer a good fit."

I don't think they could have bought a rink at Vadnais (thought it's owned by the county now), but they sure rent a lot of ice there from what's been on the boards at the rink.

To clarify, I don't know if they ACTUALLY own it, but they bought the naming rights at least. It's called the Gentry Rink. And, as you've said, they buy a ton of ice too.

[MNHockeyFan]

I would imagine other programs might be receptive to their inquiries too, but if they are abiding by the Gentlemen's Agreement, they won't extend an offer until the player has publicly de-committed.

Seems like the Gentleman's Agreement is going by the wayside.

"For years, college coaches mostly adhered to a gentleman’s agreement in recruiting. Once a player committed to a school, other schools stopped recruiting him. Not always, but generally speaking. Lucia said that practice is “fading.”

http://www.startribune.com/how-young-is ... 443487013/

[The Exiled One]

Seems like the Gentleman's Agreement is going by the wayside.

"For years, college coaches mostly adhered to a gentleman’s agreement in recruiting. Once a player committed to a school, other schools stopped recruiting him. Not always, but generally speaking. Lucia said that practice is “fading.”

http://www.startribune.com/how-young-is ... 443487013/

That's why I used the word "IF".

Also, after Lucia and other big name programs came out against the gentleman's agreement, a whole slew of programs committed to upholding it... including UND, UMD, and SCSU. The fate of the GA may be sealed, but it's not entirely dead yet. Lucia basically just said, "I'm coming for your recruits, feel free to come for mine."

[lostmyonlypuckindasnow]

seems like fear of missing out/keeping up with the jonses is something college coaches suffer from, too, and it's not just driving the decisions ov youth sports parents.

& any press is good press, as the saying goes

[Daulton21]

Just my personal opinion, Nothing against the kids, They don't know any better. but actions like this sure make me lose respect for the U of MN program.

[xy]

Like most people I think there are serious problems that need to be addressed with recruiting and the age at which it starts, but realistically, what are the Gophers supposed to do here? Just decide they're not going to do it and unilaterally disarm?

It appears there were plenty of other big-name schools that wanted these kids. Sometimes the best kids at 13 aren't the best kids at 18 . . . but sometimes they are. Neither Joey nor Mikey Anderson was 15 yet at the time of their commitments to UMD - that seems to have worked out pretty well for the Bulldogs, and the Andersons.

I agree that the system is messed up. Until there's a system-wide fix, you really can't be too hard on a coach for trying to win within the system as it exists.

[BSUBeaver]

What bugs me most about this is that when the kids get to be 18-20 and it comes time to trot off to college, the college doesn't have to honor that commitment, hence all the over recruiting that some programs do. Looking at Chris Heisenberg's recruit list, last year there were teams that had 15+ recruits listed to come in THIS YEAR alone.

"Sorry, we don't have a spot for you, but hopefully you can hook up with another team before you age out...."

[The Exiled One]

It appears there were plenty of other big-name schools that wanted these kids.

Were there? Like who?

If these kids dreamed of being Gophers, wouldn't they turn those other programs down? Even if they accepted the offers, couldn't the Gophers just steal them away later?

[xy]

I'm not privy to the inner workings of the Lucius family, but according to Billy Hengen, who coaches them at Gentry Academy, as quoted by Chip Scoggins in the Star Tribune: "There were a lot of schools in the Midwest recruiting them . . . t created a frenzy. They were head and shoulders above other top players that are being recruited." Now, obviously one could say that Hengen has an incentive to boost the reputation of the kids and the school, but I find it hard to believe he'd lie so publicly about something like that.

And while the gentleman's agreement appears to be on the way out, it's not entirely dead, and one of the few good things about college hockey recruiting is that it's not as cutthroat as football and basketball. Early commitments mean more in hockey. If the Gophers wait that long who's to say a kid won't be turned off by a lack of interest, or have somehow decided he likes a different school more, something an early showing of interest might have helped prevent? That he won't have decided to go the Canadian junior route?

Again, I think the world of college hockey recruiting is crazy. I have a son not much younger than the Lucius kids who sometimes has difficulty deciding what he wants for lunch, and I can't imagine him deciding where he wants to go to college within the next year or two. My point is only that I find it kind of ridiculous to blame a coach - who has a high-pressure job in which his success is dependent on getting the best players he can - for operating the way that system seems to require in an attempt to get those players. Even more so when you consider that Lucia has made quite clear he doesn't like the way the system works now, and is visibly trying to change it. It's asking an awful lot to expect him to sacrifice his program to get to those changes.

[The Exiled One]

My point is, it's disingenuous of Lucia to call for the end of the GA and also acknowledge it has value. Every Minnesotan who isn't a Gopher fan knows that Lucia is just bitter that other local college programs sometimes gamble on in-state recruits and sometimes land blue chippers. He thinks the Gophers are entitled to all the best Minnesotans. It's easier to hold this view than to improve his recruiting ability.

[thefatcat]

I found it amusing that YHH retweeted an article from the fish wrap factory on the east side of the Mississippi about the problem with colleges recruiting kids at a young age. This dude is part of the problem in my humble opinion. Factor in all of the money paid by momma bear at Gentry to advertise her kid's accomplishments and it almost becomes laughable. Find me a tourney that the kids played in that was covered by YHH where they were not plastered on the front page of the website. She has basically painted a big ol' target on her kids back.

I give the guy credit though...he knows where his bread is buttered.

[Gopher Blog]

My point is, it's disingenuous of Lucia to call for the end of the GA and also acknowledge it has value. Every Minnesotan who isn't a Gopher fan knows that Lucia is just bitter that other local college programs sometimes gamble on in-state recruits and sometimes land blue chippers. He thinks the Gophers are entitled to all the best Minnesotans. It's easier to hold this view than to improve his recruiting ability.

Lucia lost occasional recruits long before there was ever a "gentleman's agreement" of sorts among the coaching community. He's intelligent enough to know that even without an agreement, it won't get him everything he wants.

Lucia's dislike for the agreement mainly revolves around not being able to make a pitch at all. Nobody likes to lose a recruit but you can at least live with it when you feel like you had a sincere chance to sell them on what your program can do for them.

His getting young recruits now isn't any admission of the "value" to have the agreement. He simply knows he has to play the same game until the rules actually change. He has always made it clear that if it were up to him, no kid would commit until they were older. But he isn't dumb... if he goes out on an island and tries to do it that way, he is going to lose out on a lot of high end guys.

What you (and some of these coaches) don't want to admit is the gentleman's agreement isn't of any value to the recruits themselves. It is basically a way to keep recruits in the dark from what actually might be available to them on the "market". If a coach is so convinced his program is the best option for kid, he's not going to fear the competition making their pitch...

[Gopher Blog]

Just my personal opinion, Nothing against the kids, They don't know any better. but actions like this sure make me lose respect for the U of MN program.

You may as well lose respect for the entire system then because it isn't just one school.

[The Exiled One]

What you (and some of these coaches) don't want to admit is the gentleman's agreement isn't of any value to the recruits themselves. It is basically a way to keep recruits in the dark from what actually might be available to them on the "market".

The recruits don't abide by a gentlemen's agreement. If they're not satisfied with the school they committed to, they're free to talk with any school they like. The benefit to them is that they're not getting harassed to the point of second-guessing themselves.

[Gopher Blog]

The recruits don't abide by a gentlemen's agreement. If they're not satisfied with the school they committed to, they're free to talk with any school they like. The benefit to them is that they're not getting harassed to the point of second-guessing themselves.

The recruits don't have to abide by it but the reality is they aren't going to be very aware of what is available to them if they are kept in the dark about what the options actually are. They could call around but if the college they originally committed to hears about it (and the other options out there aren't as abundant as they may hope for), it may put their original offer at risk.

To position it like the agreement has anything to do with the kids is laughable. This is solely about certain coaches fearing what other programs may do and they want protection from it. I think it is funny that HS football and HS basketball players can somehow manage the process just fine but you apparently think hockey players are too delicate to still receive contact after a verbal.

Like I said... if a coach truly believes his program offers the best opportunity for a kid and he has sold his program well, he isn't going to worry about a kid listening to somebody else.

[zamboniexhaustinhaler]

Just my personal opinion, Nothing against the kids, They don't know any better. but actions like this sure make me lose respect for the U of MN program.

You may as well lose respect for the entire system then because it isn't just one school.

Already there myself

[yesiplayedhockey]

I am as well. I used to watch about 80% college hockey and 20% NHL. Now it's about 90% NHL and 10% college.

College hockey just isn't the same product it was several years ago. For me it started when college hockey started using the USHL as their farm system and almost every freshman was 20-21 years old. Then BIG 10 came in with a bunch of money, broke up some of the great rivalries and forced change on what was no doubt the best conference in college hockey (WCHA)

Now we got young children getting recruited by coaches who've maybe watched them play in 4-5 summer hockey games. Coaches who think that any 13/14 year old kid who has perfected a toe drag is exactly what their college team need 5 years from now.

The U didn't have to do this, they wanted to do this. Big difference

Congrats to the kids though. I certainly wish the best for them and will continue to follow them through this journey.

[BP]

New wrinkle in this saga - the older boy is repeating 8th grade.

[Corn Cobb]

BP: How do you know. Curious.

[BP]

BP: How do you know. Curious.

Another GA parent.