The Hermantown Thread
Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)
Well, the funny thing is CEC high school hockey is going to be good on paper the next 3 years. And then we'll be back to where we usually are. Struggle with talent, but the kids work extremely hard. I think it would be redicilous to leave the LSC anyway just because we have 3 years of talent (high end). Every ten years hopefully we can compete on paper in AA. People talking like we are Hermantown now....far from it folks.
Difference is teams like Cloquet now & Anoka in 01-02, 02-03 & 06-07, 07-08 & 14-15, 15-16...realize those are their only opportunities to make a run at STATE and roll with it...while Hermantown sandbags for a virtual sure thing every year in 7A...rather than accepting the challenge to beat 2-3 really good teams to advance to State. I’d rather play in front of 18-19,000 thousand fans & lose in the first round than 5,000 tops every year & play for the little Trophy.kniven wrote:Well, the funny thing is CEC high school hockey is going to be good on paper the next 3 years. And then we'll be back to where we usually are. Struggle with talent, but the kids work extremely hard. I think it would be redicilous to leave the LSC anyway just because we have 3 years of talent (high end). Every ten years hopefully we can compete on paper in AA. People talking like we are Hermantown now....far from it folks.
Now that is hilarious! Well played.WestMetro wrote:Ahh, the endless Hermantown drama on all subjects!
My biggest question is:
Once Levi and Willy graduate from Marshall, and if Pete Stauber wins Rick Nolan job, will Hermantown start letting its kids buy equipment from Stauber Brothers Duluth Hockey again?
CEC played Proctor in Cloquet this year. I was actually embarrassed watching the game. Feeling bad for Proctor, and that we shouldn’t schedule them anymore, especially for the next 3-4 years when CEC is way up in skill. We get to the section playoffs every year and face a gauntlet in the section every year.
I couldn’t halo putting myself in the shoes of a Hermantown diehard, and what it feels like playing in the A playoffs every year in high school but yet AA in peewee and Bantam. I would be really embarrassed actually. I guess it’s a mind set. Hermantown hockey is really good top to bottom since 2006 and now another 10-12 year stretch as their peewee and bantamAA top 5 in state each. SquirtA in top 3. Amazing hockey program over year.
I couldn’t halo putting myself in the shoes of a Hermantown diehard, and what it feels like playing in the A playoffs every year in high school but yet AA in peewee and Bantam. I would be really embarrassed actually. I guess it’s a mind set. Hermantown hockey is really good top to bottom since 2006 and now another 10-12 year stretch as their peewee and bantamAA top 5 in state each. SquirtA in top 3. Amazing hockey program over year.
Agreed. They are so good they should be embarrassed to keep kicking butt in single A.kniven wrote:CEC played Proctor in Cloquet this year. I was actually embarrassed watching the game. Feeling bad for Proctor, and that we shouldn’t schedule them anymore, especially for the next 3-4 years when CEC is way up in skill. We get to the section playoffs every year and face a gauntlet in the section every year.
I couldn’t halo putting myself in the shoes of a Hermantown diehard, and what it feels like playing in the A playoffs every year in high school but yet AA in peewee and Bantam. I would be really embarrassed actually. I guess it’s a mind set. Hermantown hockey is really good top to bottom since 2006 and now another 10-12 year stretch as their peewee and bantamAA top 5 in state each. SquirtA in top 3. Amazing hockey program over year.
Yes, it's a mindset. But that's only part of it. They rely on kids coming in. As long as you have the auto-berth, they will keep coming. The School District received $1.3 Million Dollars in State Per Pupil Aid last year from open enrollment. That's public record, look it up. Do you think the school admin is going to mess with that? Plus, the parents are happy. They love the auto-berth, it's why they send their kids there. Scott Pionk said 70% of them don't want to move to AA. He knows.......kniven wrote:CEC played Proctor in Cloquet this year. I was actually embarrassed watching the game. Feeling bad for Proctor, and that we shouldn’t schedule them anymore, especially for the next 3-4 years when CEC is way up in skill. We get to the section playoffs every year and face a gauntlet in the section every year.
I couldn’t halo putting myself in the shoes of a Hermantown diehard, and what it feels like playing in the A playoffs every year in high school but yet AA in peewee and Bantam. I would be really embarrassed actually. I guess it’s a mind set. Hermantown hockey is really good top to bottom since 2006 and now another 10-12 year stretch as their peewee and bantamAA top 5 in state each. SquirtA in top 3. Amazing hockey program over year.
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7TIMECHAMPS
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I just read through this whole thread and coming from a person with no horse in the race I can say it gets a little bit irritating how many class A hockey fans whine every time a program has success. Does Hermantown have more resources than many other class A schools? Yes and obviously that is a large reason for their success. But where does it stop? Do we just keep kicking out every program that is successful until we have Bagley whining that Baudette has more resources? (Don't mean to pick on anyone just giving an example) I mean what is really the solution here? Further the participation trophy culture and make more classes until everyone is in the state tournament? This Hermantown thing is a cycle people. Once Hermantown is in AA people will just find a new program to kick out. This is no different than life. Are certain people born with more advantages and resources? Yes but that is life! Deal with it and do the best with what you have. Focus your energy on developing your program instead of whining. Like I said I am on the outside of this situation but it seems like this gets out of hand.....................On the flip side of this I have a response to the Hermantown person that asked how Roseau is doing in AA and furthered their comment by saying we are irrelevant. My response is that nobody in class A can throw dirt on Roseau. The way Roseau counts Hermantown has zero state titles and zero appearances. Everybody including yourself knows you don't beat the best teams in the state of MN to win that title. What Roseau has done in the past turning classes of 35-55 boys into state champions is far more than Hermantown has done........ In summary stay in class A if you want to. I don't care nor do I think you should be forced to move up if you don't want to, but don't throw shade at a program like Roseau if you are playing single A. (Side note I don't mean this as a rip on class A just stating facts about two programs)
The two comments I bolded are big reasons why this thread exists.7TIMECHAMPS wrote:I just read through this whole thread and coming from a person with no horse in the race I can say it gets a little bit irritating how many class A hockey fans whine every time a program has success. Does Hermantown have more resources than many other class A schools? Yes and obviously that is a large reason for their success. But where does it stop? Do we just keep kicking out every program that is successful until we have Bagley whining that Baudette has more resources? (Don't mean to pick on anyone just giving an example) I mean what is really the solution here? Further the participation trophy culture and make more classes until everyone is in the state tournament? This Hermantown thing is a cycle people. Once Hermantown is in AA people will just find a new program to kick out. This is no different than life. Are certain people born with more advantages and resources? Yes but that is life! Deal with it and do the best with what you have. Focus your energy on developing your program instead of whining. Like I said I am on the outside of this situation but it seems like this gets out of hand.....................On the flip side of this I have a response to the Hermantown person that asked how Roseau is doing in AA and furthered their comment by saying we are irrelevant. My response is that nobody in class A can throw dirt on Roseau. The way Roseau counts Hermantown has zero state titles and zero appearances. Everybody including yourself knows you don't beat the best teams in the state of MN to win that title. What Roseau has done in the past turning classes of 35-55 boys into state champions is far more than Hermantown has done........ In summary stay in class A if you want to. I don't care nor do I think you should be forced to move up if you don't want to, but don't throw shade at a program like Roseau if you are playing single A. (Side note I don't mean this as a rip on class A just stating facts about two programs)
-Focus your energy on developing your program instead of whining
-This statements pops up from time-to-time, and...7A teams are developing their programs, so much so that over the last few seasons, Virginia, Hibbing, Greenway, Denfeld, and Marshall all had top ten A teams, with Hibbing, Greenway and Marshall having top 3 teams in A. A few Hermantown fans just seem to think the rest of 7A sucks, and that is why Hermantown goes to state every year. If Hermantown had been in AA the last 5-6 years, the rest of the state would have seen some of the other excellent teams in 7A have success at the X.
-On the flip side of this I have a response to the Hermantown person that asked how Roseau is doing in AA and furthered their comment by saying we are irrelevant.
-This is another peculiar Hermantown sentiment: the fact that if you're not beating everyone in AA all the time then you are "irrelevant". Several Hawkheads have said that they can't compete with the Edinas and EPs, so they shouldn't move up to AA. Apparently, the only way they feel an opt-up makes sense is if they can go straight from dominating in A to dominating in AA without missing a beat. The irony of this strange belief is that the last two seasons they have beaten the eventual AA champ during the regular season! It really is a different world in the swamp behind the Miller Hill Mall.
They want to be like Roseau so, very, very badly, which is why they bristle when you point out to them that being a Duluth suburb is the key to their domination.
Net Presence wrote:
First, I want to reply to HHawks' comment from the previous page trying to play "gotcha" with Jefry in trying to compare Hermantown's numerous open enrollees at the youth and high school levels to Greenway's FES goalie -- I know it's uncommon on these types of message boards BUT, Hhawk, it's called NUANCE.... If you're going to enter the fray, at least do so in an honest and genuine manner.
Now, for what I'd really like to offer to this umpteenth discussion regarding Hermantown's unwillingness to move up to AA. Please bare with me as this whole situation is not only about the Hermantown administration's unwillingness to do the "right thing" at the high school level but, it also ties in to Minnesota Hockey's decision a number of years ago to change their participation rule from "Play where you live" to "Play where you live OR where you go to school". A decision that -- and this comes directly from the mouth of current president Dave Margeneau -- was made based on a survey prior to that change that showed ONLY 7% APPROVAL FOR THE CHANGE!!! Good to know Minnesota Hockey makes major policy decisions based on the "good of the few" versus the "good of the many". As a state, we trumpet the virtues of our "community based model" from the mountaintop -- don't get me wrong, I truly believe it to be the best system for keeping costs low and maximizing the base of the youth player pyramid -- but, we don't support it with the policies and procedures that will truly allow it to thrive -- see all of the declining numbers in the smaller outstate programs.... And, that decision has probably been THE critical determining component to the depth of Hermantown's seemingly never ending talent pool. Still, the Hermantown youth program had to continue to develop those players and, to their great credit they have. Let me be clear, I have emense respect for those involved in Hermantown as I know many of them very well. They are good hockey people and they care about the kids. Unfortunately, many of them, though well intentioned, want to have their cake and eat it too.
I also know Scott Pionk well and, he's obviously a well respected voice in not only the Hermantown hockey community but also the general Minnesota hockey community as well. I can also confirm what was previously posted about his feelings on this issue, to include the fact he has made it well known to Hermantown administration that he wants them to go to AA after next season and, if they choose not to, his current player may -- repeat may -- choose to leave. Whether that has any impact on the administration only time will tell. I can also state that in his conversation with the Hermantown AD last spring prior to the their decision to remain in A, when he explained that 11 of the 20 players on last year's state tournament roster either didn't begin their youth "careers" in Hermantown or, were open enrollees as kindergartners, she was, according to him, completely unaware "it was that bad".
For those that may not know, the majority of youth hockey players that choose to open enroll into the Hermantown school system, do so between 2nd and 6th grade. In a recent conversation with a current school board member, that individual -- who was defending the decision to stay in A -- admitted that the average number of kids in kindergarten classes over the last number of years is around 90 students. Yet, by the time that class gets to the 3rd or 4th grade, it has usually grown to around 120+. With many of the "new" kids being hockey players. I also know that the Duluth Amateur Hockey Association did a very recent review of all the youth players who have left either DAHA or Proctor in the last 3-5 years -- approx. 23 total, 21 of which went to Hermantown (2 went from GMP to Proctor) -- and only ONE family actually moved to Hermantown. My point here being, if we had the old Minnesota Hockey participation rule of "play where you live", it seems highly unlikely anywhere near that number would have made the much more difficult decision to actually move to Hermabtown.
So, why do parents of 2nd thru 6th graders choose to leave their home associations? Well, if you look at the players that have chosen to move, at the time they did almost all of them were considered "above average" or better at the levels they were at. And of course -- and this is especially true of the parents who have little or no previous experience/exposure to our game prior to their kids playing -- the parents automatically assume that since their son or daughter is above average as a squirt or pee wee player, that obviously means they'll be at least that as a high school player. Obviously, those of us that truly know the game know this is oftentimes not the case. Still, as long as Hermantown is in "A", these parents are sitting in the Proctor or Denfeld or Carlton or Piedmont or Duluth Heights or GMP youth associations thinking..."if I open enroll my son to Hermantown, we'll almost be guaranteed a trip to the state high school tourney before he graduates". And, since Minnesota Hockey has made it so easy for them to do so, that's what they do. Obviously, perceptions regarding quality of individual schools may certainly come into play as well. However, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that's not the main reason.
So, how do we motivate our friends from Hermantown -- or, as a friend of mine calls them... "Hawk Dividians"
Next, as it stands and has been said many times previously on this board, Hermantown has the best of both worlds at the high school level. Play a "AA" heavy regular season schedule and then, other than the once a decade scare like last night, walk thru the "A" section playoffs with ease to get to the "big dance". So, I propose that the MSHSL enact a new rule for boys and girls hockey only which prohibits a single "A" school from scheduling any "AA" schools unless the "AA" school is either a member of your conference OR, you happen to play one as part of a holiday tournament. This would obviously greatly reduce the overall quality of regular season schedule of a school such as Hermantown. Which, after a couple of seasons of beating up on "A" teams all season long, might not only make them less attractive to open enrollees but, since their better players won't be getting "pushed" from a developmental standpoint, may also motivate those within the program to choose to opt up. And don't think this change isn't viable. I've run this proposal by two MSHSL board members in the last year and they both thought it had merit.
To Coach Clafton and the Greenway players I say congratulations on a tremendous season. I've lost in a section final so I have felt the pain you feel today. It's obviously no fun but, I promise, it will get better as time moves on. For my friends in Hermantown, I genuinely wish the coaches and the players best of luck next week. I honestly hope you're able to win another championship because, as I hope we all remember, it's about the kids. I've watched many of them grow and develop as players since they were squirts and they play the game the right way. Actually, we should all be pulling for them to win both this year and next. Because if they do, I think the pressure to move to "AA" will be so overwhelming they won't have a choice but to do so. Then again, I've been wrong many times before....
The Duluth Reader, a weekly newspaper found at duluthreader.com quotes Hermantown coach Pat Andrews about the AA/A issue:
“My hope,” he said, “is that we will be Double-A within two years. It’s time. We can compete. And if we can’t compete every year, nobody can. Of course, I’m just the coach, in my first year, but I’m going to do everything in my power to see if we can make the move.”
Full article:
http://m.duluthreader.com/articles/2018 ... _new_rival
“My hope,” he said, “is that we will be Double-A within two years. It’s time. We can compete. And if we can’t compete every year, nobody can. Of course, I’m just the coach, in my first year, but I’m going to do everything in my power to see if we can make the move.”
Full article:
http://m.duluthreader.com/articles/2018 ... _new_rival
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SpOilerfan
- Posts: 154
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at least 4 with your guy JL15 at the helm just won the north regional (again)kniven wrote:Well, the funny thing is CEC high school hockey is going to be good on paper the next 3 years. And then we'll be back to where we usually are. Struggle with talent, but the kids work extremely hard. I think it would be redicilous to leave the LSC anyway just because we have 3 years of talent (high end). Every ten years hopefully we can compete on paper in AA. People talking like we are Hermantown now....far from it folks.
Yes. Very impressive. The boys and that coaching staff. Well doneSpOilerfan wrote:at least 4 with your guy JL15 at the helm just won the north regional (again)kniven wrote:Well, the funny thing is CEC high school hockey is going to be good on paper the next 3 years. And then we'll be back to where we usually are. Struggle with talent, but the kids work extremely hard. I think it would be redicilous to leave the LSC anyway just because we have 3 years of talent (high end). Every ten years hopefully we can compete on paper in AA. People talking like we are Hermantown now....far from it folks.
!!!
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2018/03/0 ... s-tourney/hockey59 wrote:As a Bulldog alum, I’m psyched he is committed...to dem Dogskniven wrote:How long has Blake B. been playing Hermantown Hockey? He is now a bonafide superstar in the state of hockey. His performance in game 1 was awesome! Well done, Blake!!
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ilovemesomehockey
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Since mites I believe. His father dedicated many volunteer years to the youth associationkniven wrote:How long has Blake B. been playing Hermantown Hockey? He is now a bonafide superstar in the state of hockey. His performance in game 1 was awesome! Well done, Blake!!
http://www.kbjr6.com/story/32942171/joe-biondi
Played in Hermantown since he started. Dad was president of HAHA for 10-years.ilovemesomehockey wrote:Since mites I believe. His father dedicated many volunteer years to the youth associationkniven wrote:How long has Blake B. been playing Hermantown Hockey? He is now a bonafide superstar in the state of hockey. His performance in game 1 was awesome! Well done, Blake!!
http://www.kbjr6.com/story/32942171/joe-biondi
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ilovemesomehockey
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:06 am
Im not sure thats true,however, the loads and loads of crap one must endure in that position cannot be understated. I agree about the new President - great guyJeffy95 wrote:Yes, his Dad was a great player in Warroad and then played for UMD. He did volunteer a lot of time to the Association. In fairness to the whole story, however, he was also the President of HAHA and head coach of the Bantam AA team when he allowed an illegal player to play an entire season with the team. He was not a fan of the MN Hockey rules. They are in much better hands with the new President, who is a very good guy.ilovemesomehockey wrote:Since mites I believe. His father dedicated many volunteer years to the youth associationkniven wrote:How long has Blake B. been playing Hermantown Hockey? He is now a bonafide superstar in the state of hockey. His performance in game 1 was awesome! Well done, Blake!!
http://www.kbjr6.com/story/32942171/joe-biondi
It was actually the PeeWee AA team, but yes, it's true. The District asked him about it after the fact. Claimed he didn't know where the kid lived even though he had known his Dad for 7 years and everyone in the Association knew where they lived.ilovemesomehockey wrote:Im not sure thats true,however, the loads and loads of crap one must endure in that position cannot be understated. I agree about the new President - great guyJeffy95 wrote:Yes, his Dad was a great player in Warroad and then played for UMD. He did volunteer a lot of time to the Association. In fairness to the whole story, however, he was also the President of HAHA and head coach of the Bantam AA team when he allowed an illegal player to play an entire season with the team. He was not a fan of the MN Hockey rules. They are in much better hands with the new President, who is a very good guy.ilovemesomehockey wrote: Since mites I believe. His father dedicated many volunteer years to the youth association
http://www.kbjr6.com/story/32942171/joe-biondi
Note: I deleted the post as to not take away from his kid but you quoted it too quick.
Last edited by Jeffy95 on Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.