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The Hermantown Thread
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zooomx



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! This St. George article is obviously an opinion piece and nothing else. He is trying to flip the conversation for a moment. I will be honest. I am happy that Hermantown, thus far, has stayed at the "A" level. If they had not, Alex would not have had that wonderful moment where they slayed the mighty dragon. That was a fun moment in which most of the State of Hockey was pulling for our squad and it was a fantastic ride. Yet, I so wanted it to be Greenway and they almost pulled it off in sections. That would have been awesome too.

It sounds like Hermantown's coach is ready to push for the move up, and if they do, I wish them luck. The comment that Hermantown would not be chastised if it weren't for recruiting is hilarious. People in these forums are already targeting Alexandria as the next bully on the block, saying they are a AA program in youth (which they are not) and should move to AA in high school. Orono is taking their hits too.

I do feel bad for Greenway, as they have really come on strong and it is a shame that they didn't get their shot at state... however, they did get their shot and almost broke through. One thing that gets missed in this conversation is the fact that Hermantown has forced the rest of us to step up our game. In this wonderful State of Hockey, even the Class A tournament should be a big accomplishment to make and to do well in.

It's sort of ironic that at times people are saying hockey is dying in the north, yet 7A was a super strong section, as was 7AA. 8A and 8AA are very strong too. 6A, while not 218 hockey but still outstate, was very deep as well. I have said it before, and will say it again, depth is key even at the A level. So, recruitment is key. You have to develop all your players, not just a top line or two. It takes 3-4 lines and 5-6 quality D to win at the Class A level now. There are just a lot of quality teams in A and AA now.

Whether Hermantown moves up or not (I think they will), my hope is that the Greenways and Virginias of the world now know that teams like Hermantown can be beat. Heck, Virginia and Hibbing both knocked off Alex in the holiday tournament. We are all a lot closer than people think. There are a lot of Northern A programs that are really coming on strong and it is so fun to watch.

My worry about the shame game regarding this topic, is that we end up with a watered down Class A. Right now, in most sections it is pretty darn tough to get to state and really darn tough to make noise once you get there. I don't want that to change.
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yesiplayedhockey



Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've said it many times.... I prefer a single class system with a sweet 16 (or 32) tournament that starts with the first round of regional games played in historic cities/arenas. But since that will never happen, maybe it's time to go the other way and move to a three tier system

AAA Level- would be all the big schools -All rounds of the State tournament would be played at at Excel

AA Levels- schools would be decent enrollment like say a Alexandria or a St Louis Park and schools that can recruit heavily...ie the privates... (St Thomas, Hill Murray, BSM, Cretin Holy Family and Hermantown's)- First couple rounds played at Mariucci - and maybe the chip at Excel

A level- The rest of the schools - Played at Ridder..But again the chip could be at Excel.

Someone smarter than me could figure out the opt up policy and if the AAA/AA/A level is determined by school size or association numbers

And no I'm not a "participation trophy" kind of guy nor am I guy who thinks there should be 3-4 private schools in the state tournament.

The 32 team field would be attractive because you could set the tournament up so that in the 4 regions you could have say two brackets of the bigger schools, 1 bracket of the privates and one bracket of say the smaller schools. The result could be a Roseau vs Edina final again or a Tonka versus St Thomas...
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Jeffy95



Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zooomx wrote:


The comment that Hermantown would not be chastised if it weren't for recruiting is hilarious. People in these forums are already targeting Alexandria as the next bully on the block, saying they are a AA program in youth (which they are not) and should move to AA in high school. Orono is taking their hits too.


We have all of the evidence we need for this argument with EGF. They won back to back titles and not one person on this forum or anywhere ever suggested they should move up. They had all EGF kids on those teams and had a great group come through, which is what the A tourney was for. After that, they went through the same cycles as every Class A team but Hermantown and haven't had much success since then. Hermantown doesn't really have those cycles because their player pool is a large Metro area, where any player can go there for free. They're even getting players from outside of the Metro area now.

zooomx wrote:
Whether Hermantown moves up or not (I think they will), my hope is that the Greenways and Virginias of the world now know that teams like Hermantown can be beat. Heck, Virginia and Hibbing both knocked off Alex in the holiday tournament. We are all a lot closer than people think. There are a lot of Northern A programs that are really coming on strong and it is so fun to watch.
.


Everyone knew coming into the season that this would be the year that Hermantown could possibly lose. Their string of top Proctor and Duluth kids graduated, and Watkins, Herter and Gotz just weren't quite enough to sustain the level they had reached.

Their Bantam and PeeWee AA teams are another story, however. Those are All-Star teams made up of kids from all over Northern MN. There is no Class A High School team that could stay out of running time against those groups. The PeeWee's took 2nd place, losing to Woodbury in the final. They took down Edina and Stillwater prior to that. All of those Metro teams will most likely lose some players off those teams, while Hermantown will gain even more. Your argument holds up for this year and maybe even next year. But after that it's another long run of blowouts.
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greenwayraider



Joined: 29 Jan 2016
Posts: 369
Location: Charlestown

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the 2018-19 season there is no chance for any Range school to beat Hermantown or even stay out of running time. No Range PeeWee or Bantam is above average for Class A. After this upcoming year Greenway will only have one line if everybody from the Sophomore class stays. Any hope for an upset by Greenway this upcoming season is dependent upon having the goalie return too. Greenway will be good and depending on their schedule probably won’t lose more than five games and should be ranked in the top five. They’ll have a high octane offense that should be fun to watch.
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northwoods oldtimer



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2103

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zooomx wrote:
Ha! This St. George article is obviously an opinion piece and nothing else. He is trying to flip the conversation for a moment. I will be honest. I am happy that Hermantown, thus far, has stayed at the "A" level. If they had not, Alex would not have had that wonderful moment where they slayed the mighty dragon. That was a fun moment in which most of the State of Hockey was pulling for our squad and it was a fantastic ride. Yet, I so wanted it to be Greenway and they almost pulled it off in sections. That would have been awesome too.

It sounds like Hermantown's coach is ready to push for the move up, and if they do, I wish them luck. The comment that Hermantown would not be chastised if it weren't for recruiting is hilarious. People in these forums are already targeting Alexandria as the next bully on the block, saying they are a AA program in youth (which they are not) and should move to AA in high school. Orono is taking their hits too.

I do feel bad for Greenway, as they have really come on strong and it is a shame that they didn't get their shot at state... however, they did get their shot and almost broke through. One thing that gets missed in this conversation is the fact that Hermantown has forced the rest of us to step up our game. In this wonderful State of Hockey, even the Class A tournament should be a big accomplishment to make and to do well in.

It's sort of ironic that at times people are saying hockey is dying in the north, yet 7A was a super strong section, as was 7AA. 8A and 8AA are very strong too. 6A, while not 218 hockey but still outstate, was very deep as well. I have said it before, and will say it again, depth is key even at the A level. So, recruitment is key. You have to develop all your players, not just a top line or two. It takes 3-4 lines and 5-6 quality D to win at the Class A level now. There are just a lot of quality teams in A and AA now.

Whether Hermantown moves up or not (I think they will), my hope is that the Greenways and Virginias of the world now know that teams like Hermantown can be beat. Heck, Virginia and Hibbing both knocked off Alex in the holiday tournament. We are all a lot closer than people think. There are a lot of Northern A programs that are really coming on strong and it is so fun to watch.

My worry about the shame game regarding this topic, is that we end up with a watered down Class A. Right now, in most sections it is pretty darn tough to get to state and really darn tough to make noise once you get there. I don't want that to change.


I think you are way off on your assumption about Alexandria. I didn't read into anybodies comments regarding Alexandria being " the next Hermantown". Having read through the comments my take was based out of curiosity by folks out side the district. Alex seems to outsiders to be borderline AA size so most talk stemmed from that aspect and subsequent growth of the program. Why on earth would anybody equate them to Hermantown nobody has, its apples and oranges comparison of 2 programs. There is a zeal outside the metro beltway for teams to play double AA hockey to represent outstate hockey in the "big show". Most of us in the northland cheer on the Bemidji's, the Roseau's, the Cloquet's as we wish to see a dynamic slate of teams from "218" land as opposed to Spuds and East every year in AA. You all should take that as a thank you not a slap in the face. NWO out.
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northwoods oldtimer



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2103

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

greenwayraider wrote:
After the 2018-19 season there is no chance for any Range school to beat Hermantown or even stay out of running time. No Range PeeWee or Bantam is above average for Class A. After this upcoming year Greenway will only have one line if everybody from the Sophomore class stays. Any hope for an upset by Greenway this upcoming season is dependent upon having the goalie return too. Greenway will be good and depending on their schedule probably won’t lose more than five games and should be ranked in the top five. They’ll have a high octane offense that should be fun to watch.


greenwayraider, any chance of getting some line depth from JV or Bantam in 2018-2019?
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northwoods oldtimer



Joined: 21 Dec 2006
Posts: 2103

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffy95 wrote:
zooomx wrote:


The comment that Hermantown would not be chastised if it weren't for recruiting is hilarious. People in these forums are already targeting Alexandria as the next bully on the block, saying they are a AA program in youth (which they are not) and should move to AA in high school. Orono is taking their hits too.


We have all of the evidence we need for this argument with EGF. They won back to back titles and not one person on this forum or anywhere ever suggested they should move up. They had all EGF kids on those teams and had a great group come through, which is what the A tourney was for. After that, they went through the same cycles as every Class A team but Hermantown and haven't had much success since then. Hermantown doesn't really have those cycles because their player pool is a large Metro area, where any player can go there for free. They're even getting players from outside of the Metro area now.

zooomx wrote:
Whether Hermantown moves up or not (I think they will), my hope is that the Greenways and Virginias of the world now know that teams like Hermantown can be beat. Heck, Virginia and Hibbing both knocked off Alex in the holiday tournament. We are all a lot closer than people think. There are a lot of Northern A programs that are really coming on strong and it is so fun to watch.
.


Everyone knew coming into the season that this would be the year that Hermantown could possibly lose. Their string of top Proctor and Duluth kids graduated, and Watkins, Herter and Gotz just weren't quite enough to sustain the level they had reached.

Their Bantam and PeeWee AA teams are another story, however. Those are All-Star teams made up of kids from all over Northern MN. There is no Class A High School team that could stay out of running time against those groups. The PeeWee's took 2nd place, losing to Woodbury in the final. They took down Edina and Stillwater prior to that. All of those Metro teams will most likely lose some players off those teams, while Hermantown will gain even more. Your argument holds up for this year and maybe even next year. But after that it's another long run of blowouts.


Jeffy95 will the Hermantown move to AA create an recruiting "arms race" of talent acquisition between H-town in East long term? Something to consider as possible? Range schools schools should be folded into East range and West range like they do in northern Wisconsin. Hibbing Virginia, Eveleth, Mesabi go to East range and Greenway, Rapids, Nashwauk/Keewatin, Deer River go to West range. Give those rangers a break on some taxes for outdated low enrollment schools. It is time to make that happen.
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greenwayraider



Joined: 29 Jan 2016
Posts: 369
Location: Charlestown

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northwoods oldtimer wrote:
greenwayraider wrote:
After the 2018-19 season there is no chance for any Range school to beat Hermantown or even stay out of running time. No Range PeeWee or Bantam is above average for Class A. After this upcoming year Greenway will only have one line if everybody from the Sophomore class stays. Any hope for an upset by Greenway this upcoming season is dependent upon having the goalie return too. Greenway will be good and depending on their schedule probably won’t lose more than five games and should be ranked in the top five. They’ll have a high octane offense that should be fun to watch.


greenwayraider, any chance of getting some line depth from JV or Bantam in 2018-2019?


Nope. I don’t know the exact number of wins for the JV but it was under five. The bantams were just as bad. The bantams have one kid that might be able to help. There is one forward who was lost to injury toward the end of the season and he should help. At this point there is no one that can replace the level of talent they loose in Axsel Jensen and Wesley Johnson. They had a defenseman on JV that could have helped but he quit playing. The sophomores will have a year of experience and that will be a huge plus. Hopefully someone will be a surprise.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zooomx wrote:
Ha! This St. George article is obviously an opinion piece and nothing else. He is trying to flip the conversation for a moment. I will be honest. I am happy that Hermantown, thus far, has stayed at the "A" level. If they had not, Alex would not have had that wonderful moment where they slayed the mighty dragon. That was a fun moment in which most of the State of Hockey was pulling for our squad and it was a fantastic ride. Yet, I so wanted it to be Greenway and they almost pulled it off in sections. That would have been awesome too.

It sounds like Hermantown's coach is ready to push for the move up, and if they do, I wish them luck. The comment that Hermantown would not be chastised if it weren't for recruiting is hilarious. People in these forums are already targeting Alexandria as the next bully on the block, saying they are a AA program in youth (which they are not) and should move to AA in high school. Orono is taking their hits too.

I do feel bad for Greenway, as they have really come on strong and it is a shame that they didn't get their shot at state... however, they did get their shot and almost broke through. One thing that gets missed in this conversation is the fact that Hermantown has forced the rest of us to step up our game. In this wonderful State of Hockey, even the Class A tournament should be a big accomplishment to make and to do well in.

It's sort of ironic that at times people are saying hockey is dying in the north, yet 7A was a super strong section, as was 7AA. 8A and 8AA are very strong too. 6A, while not 218 hockey but still outstate, was very deep as well. I have said it before, and will say it again, depth is key even at the A level. So, recruitment is key. You have to develop all your players, not just a top line or two. It takes 3-4 lines and 5-6 quality D to win at the Class A level now. There are just a lot of quality teams in A and AA now.

Whether Hermantown moves up or not (I think they will), my hope is that the Greenways and Virginias of the world now know that teams like Hermantown can be beat. Heck, Virginia and Hibbing both knocked off Alex in the holiday tournament. We are all a lot closer than people think. There are a lot of Northern A programs that are really coming on strong and it is so fun to watch.

My worry about the shame game regarding this topic, is that we end up with a watered down Class A. Right now, in most sections it is pretty darn tough to get to state and really darn tough to make noise once you get there. I don't want that to change.


8a is not a strong section. Not even close.
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HHawks4Ever



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rainier2 wrote:
This just supports my theory that the Hermantown players just don't get excited to play in the A tourney anymore. These kids played AA all through youth, competed well, and then get demoted to single A where making it to the title game isn't a challenge anymore.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Just picturing the players sitting around Thursday night thinking, "man, do we really have to get up tomorrow morning to play some single A team for the chance to go to the state championship? I mean, who really cares at this point?" is making me laugh.

rainier2 wrote:
They did just fine against good AA programs this year, beating Wayzata, LS, and Marshall; and played close games with Tonka, EP, BSM, STMA, and CEC. Saying they would be put into running time is insane.


Based on how they played against Monticello/Alexandria, it really isn't insane. If you watched Hermantown play Alexandria Friday morning and then watched Edina, DE, Minnetonka and Centennial play Friday night and thought they would've had a chance to beat any of those four teams, I'm sorry but you must not have been watching the same games.

rainier2 wrote:
The "If we can't beat everyone in AA all the time, every year, then we should stay in single A" mind set drives me and many others crazy. No one gets to be great every year. Edina, EP, Tonka, East, etc., even these programs do not get to go to state every year. When Hermantown goes AA, they will get to state some years, and some years they will be the #4 seed in 7AA and lose in the semis, so start adjusting your expectations now so it won't be such a shock.


When did I say this? By no means would I expect them to make it to state every year in AA and I've already tempered my expectations if the move-up happens. All I said is that I hope the upcoming teams are much stronger compared to this year's team if they want to have any chance of making state in AA with all of the great programs in 7AA.

rainier2 wrote:
Hermantown beat the eventual AA champ two years in a row, played this year's AA champ tight, and all their youth teams were among the best in AA. Do you really want to see them continue to dominate in A just because they lost to a solid A team that played a great game?

The players and the coach don't want to be in A anymore, so I hope they get their wish next season.


My stance is that Hermantown can do whatever they feel is best fit and by no means should be forced to move-up due to their success. If they'd rather continue to go state every year in single A versus going to state one time in the next 10 years in AA, that's their decision. They've built an amazing youth system, have an enrollment around 600 students and have done nothing against the rules en route to nine straight state tournament appearances.

If the coach/players/parents/AD truly don't want to be in A anymore and decide to move-up, I'll continue to fully support the team but by no means should the rest of the state have any say in that decision.
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HHawks4Ever



Joined: 01 Mar 2018
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeffy95 wrote:
It's important to constantly reinforce one fact in this debate.

If Hermantown won with Hermantown kids, there would be no calls for them to move up. They would be loved and cheered the same way that EGF was.

They've never done that, and that's where the pressure to move up comes from.

Last year's State Champion roster had 11 of 20 kids that came from other Associations. Sorry, but If you stay in Class A under those circumstances, you deserve all of the Public Shame that you get.


Yes, you've constantly stated these "facts" for as long as I've read the board.

For the bolded, please enlighten everyone and list out the 11 kids on last year's team and provide the school that they should've played for.

I'll even provide the roster for you to make it easier:

1. Austin Hess
2. Matt Valure
3. Trent Madill
4. Jacob Herter
5. Jesse Jacques
6. Brady Baker
7. Dawson Pietrusa
8. Ryan Sandelin
9. Dylan Samberg
10. Parker Simmons
11. Darian Gotz
12. Logan Judnick
13. Ben Siljendahl
14. Tyler Watkins*
15. Dylan Kolquist
16. Sam High
17. Elliott Peterson
18. Wyatt Sonneson
19. Brandon Schmidt
20. Jake Hausmann
21. Justin Thomas
22. Sam Scott
23. Nolan Halverson
24. Cade McEwen

*I really hope you include Tyler Watkins who moved to Hermantown from Colorado in the 5th grade.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HHawks4Ever wrote:
rainier2 wrote:
This just supports my theory that the Hermantown players just don't get excited to play in the A tourney anymore. These kids played AA all through youth, competed well, and then get demoted to single A where making it to the title game isn't a challenge anymore.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Just picturing the players sitting around Thursday night thinking, "man, do we really have to get up tomorrow morning to play some single A team for the chance to go to the state championship? I mean, who really cares at this point?" is making me laugh.

rainier2 wrote:
They did just fine against good AA programs this year, beating Wayzata, LS, and Marshall; and played close games with Tonka, EP, BSM, STMA, and CEC. Saying they would be put into running time is insane.


Based on how they played against Monticello/Alexandria, it really isn't insane. If you watched Hermantown play Alexandria Friday morning and then watched Edina, DE, Minnetonka and Centennial play Friday night and thought they would've had a chance to beat any of those four teams, I'm sorry but you must not have been watching the same games.

rainier2 wrote:
The "If we can't beat everyone in AA all the time, every year, then we should stay in single A" mind set drives me and many others crazy. No one gets to be great every year. Edina, EP, Tonka, East, etc., even these programs do not get to go to state every year. When Hermantown goes AA, they will get to state some years, and some years they will be the #4 seed in 7AA and lose in the semis, so start adjusting your expectations now so it won't be such a shock.


When did I say this? By no means would I expect them to make it to state every year in AA and I've already tempered my expectations if the move-up happens. All I said is that I hope the upcoming teams are much stronger compared to this year's team if they want to have any chance of making state in AA with all of the great programs in 7AA.

rainier2 wrote:
Hermantown beat the eventual AA champ two years in a row, played this year's AA champ tight, and all their youth teams were among the best in AA. Do you really want to see them continue to dominate in A just because they lost to a solid A team that played a great game?

The players and the coach don't want to be in A anymore, so I hope they get their wish next season.


My stance is that Hermantown can do whatever they feel is best fit and by no means should be forced to move-up due to their success. If they'd rather continue to go state every year in single A versus going to state one time in the next 10 years in AA, that's their decision. They've built an amazing youth system, have an enrollment around 600 students and have done nothing against the rules en route to nine straight state tournament appearances.

If the coach/players/parents/AD truly don't want to be in A anymore and decide to move-up, I'll continue to fully support the team but by no means should the rest of the state have any say in that decision.


I could care less about H-town, but yeah, it's humorous with all the self-appointed spokesmen for the kids, etc. on this forum.

But hey, it's on the internet so it must be true. Laughing
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Jeffy95



Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only knew there were 7. This guy knows more about it than any of us and he explains that the stat came from Scott Pionk in a meeting with the AD.

Jeffy95 wrote:
Net Presence wrote:


First, I want to reply to HHawks' comment from the previous page trying to play "gotcha" with Jefry in trying to compare Hermantown's numerous open enrollees at the youth and high school levels to Greenway's FES goalie -- I know it's uncommon on these types of message boards BUT, Hhawk, it's called NUANCE.... If you're going to enter the fray, at least do so in an honest and genuine manner. Smile

Now, for what I'd really like to offer to this umpteenth discussion regarding Hermantown's unwillingness to move up to AA. Please bare with me as this whole situation is not only about the Hermantown administration's unwillingness to do the "right thing" at the high school level but, it also ties in to Minnesota Hockey's decision a number of years ago to change their participation rule from "Play where you live" to "Play where you live OR where you go to school". A decision that -- and this comes directly from the mouth of current president Dave Margeneau -- was made based on a survey prior to that change that showed ONLY 7% APPROVAL FOR THE CHANGE!!! Good to know Minnesota Hockey makes major policy decisions based on the "good of the few" versus the "good of the many". As a state, we trumpet the virtues of our "community based model" from the mountaintop -- don't get me wrong, I truly believe it to be the best system for keeping costs low and maximizing the base of the youth player pyramid -- but, we don't support it with the policies and procedures that will truly allow it to thrive -- see all of the declining numbers in the smaller outstate programs.... And, that decision has probably been THE critical determining component to the depth of Hermantown's seemingly never ending talent pool. Still, the Hermantown youth program had to continue to develop those players and, to their great credit they have. Let me be clear, I have emense respect for those involved in Hermantown as I know many of them very well. They are good hockey people and they care about the kids. Unfortunately, many of them, though well intentioned, want to have their cake and eat it too.

I also know Scott Pionk well and, he's obviously a well respected voice in not only the Hermantown hockey community but also the general Minnesota hockey community as well. I can also confirm what was previously posted about his feelings on this issue, to include the fact he has made it well known to Hermantown administration that he wants them to go to AA after next season and, if they choose not to, his current player may -- repeat may -- choose to leave. Whether that has any impact on the administration only time will tell. I can also state that in his conversation with the Hermantown AD last spring prior to the their decision to remain in A, when he explained that 11 of the 20 players on last year's state tournament roster either didn't begin their youth "careers" in Hermantown or, were open enrollees as kindergartners, she was, according to him, completely unaware "it was that bad".

For those that may not know, the majority of youth hockey players that choose to open enroll into the Hermantown school system, do so between 2nd and 6th grade. In a recent conversation with a current school board member, that individual -- who was defending the decision to stay in A -- admitted that the average number of kids in kindergarten classes over the last number of years is around 90 students. Yet, by the time that class gets to the 3rd or 4th grade, it has usually grown to around 120+. With many of the "new" kids being hockey players. I also know that the Duluth Amateur Hockey Association did a very recent review of all the youth players who have left either DAHA or Proctor in the last 3-5 years -- approx. 23 total, 21 of which went to Hermantown (2 went from GMP to Proctor) -- and only ONE family actually moved to Hermantown. My point here being, if we had the old Minnesota Hockey participation rule of "play where you live", it seems highly unlikely anywhere near that number would have made the much more difficult decision to actually move to Hermabtown.

So, why do parents of 2nd thru 6th graders choose to leave their home associations? Well, if you look at the players that have chosen to move, at the time they did almost all of them were considered "above average" or better at the levels they were at. And of course -- and this is especially true of the parents who have little or no previous experience/exposure to our game prior to their kids playing -- the parents automatically assume that since their son or daughter is above average as a squirt or pee wee player, that obviously means they'll be at least that as a high school player. Obviously, those of us that truly know the game know this is oftentimes not the case. Still, as long as Hermantown is in "A", these parents are sitting in the Proctor or Denfeld or Carlton or Piedmont or Duluth Heights or GMP youth associations thinking..."if I open enroll my son to Hermantown, we'll almost be guaranteed a trip to the state high school tourney before he graduates". And, since Minnesota Hockey has made it so easy for them to do so, that's what they do. Obviously, perceptions regarding quality of individual schools may certainly come into play as well. However, anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that's not the main reason.

So, how do we motivate our friends from Hermantown -- or, as a friend of mine calls them... "Hawk Dividians" Smile -- to make the decision all of us can clearly see would be the best for not only high school hockey in northern Minnesota but, for youth hockey as well? Two simple rule changes. First -- and there is a growing sentiment for this in Minnesota Hockey -- a local association president will be sending out a letter with an attached petition to every youth association president and/or director asking them to support changing the Minnesota Hockey participation rule back to "Play where you live". And, he has said that in informal conversations he has had over 98% agreement in changing the rule back. So, although it may take a year or two, there is strong momentum building for this change. Elliot, are you listening? Smile

Next, as it stands and has been said many times previously on this board, Hermantown has the best of both worlds at the high school level. Play a "AA" heavy regular season schedule and then, other than the once a decade scare like last night, walk thru the "A" section playoffs with ease to get to the "big dance". So, I propose that the MSHSL enact a new rule for boys and girls hockey only which prohibits a single "A" school from scheduling any "AA" schools unless the "AA" school is either a member of your conference OR, you happen to play one as part of a holiday tournament. This would obviously greatly reduce the overall quality of regular season schedule of a school such as Hermantown. Which, after a couple of seasons of beating up on "A" teams all season long, might not only make them less attractive to open enrollees but, since their better players won't be getting "pushed" from a developmental standpoint, may also motivate those within the program to choose to opt up. And don't think this change isn't viable. I've run this proposal by two MSHSL board members in the last year and they both thought it had merit.

To Coach Clafton and the Greenway players I say congratulations on a tremendous season. I've lost in a section final so I have felt the pain you feel today. It's obviously no fun but, I promise, it will get better as time moves on. For my friends in Hermantown, I genuinely wish the coaches and the players best of luck next week. I honestly hope you're able to win another championship because, as I hope we all remember, it's about the kids. I've watched many of them grow and develop as players since they were squirts and they play the game the right way. Actually, we should all be pulling for them to win both this year and next. Because if they do, I think the pressure to move to "AA" will be so overwhelming they won't have a choice but to do so. Then again, I've been wrong many times before.... Wink
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Net Presence



Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HHawks4Ever wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
It's important to constantly reinforce one fact in this debate.

If Hermantown won with Hermantown kids, there would be no calls for them to move up. They would be loved and cheered the same way that EGF was.

They've never done that, and that's where the pressure to move up comes from.

Last year's State Champion roster had 11 of 20 kids that came from other Associations. Sorry, but If you stay in Class A under those circumstances, you deserve all of the Public Shame that you get.


Yes, you've constantly stated these "facts" for as long as I've read the board.

For the bolded, please enlighten everyone and list out the 11 kids on last year's team and provide the school that they should've played for.

I'll even provide the roster for you to make it easier:

1. Austin Hess
2. Matt Valure
3. Trent Madill
4. Jacob Herter
5. Jesse Jacques
6. Brady Baker
7. Dawson Pietrusa
8. Ryan Sandelin
9. Dylan Samberg
10. Parker Simmons
11. Darian Gotz
12. Logan Judnick
13. Ben Siljendahl
14. Tyler Watkins*
15. Dylan Kolquist
16. Sam High
17. Elliott Peterson
18. Wyatt Sonneson
19. Brandon Schmidt
20. Jake Hausmann
21. Justin Thomas
22. Sam Scott
23. Nolan Halverson
24. Cade McEwen

*I really hope you include Tyler Watkins who moved to Hermantown from Colorado in the 5th grade.


First, I'm pretty sure I could name at least 7 or 8 of those kids from that roster but, I won't do so without being 100% sure beforehand. Still, I've known Scott Pionk for over 30 years and we're friends who've both been very fortunate to have experienced this game at almost every level and in almost every position imaginable. So, if he says 11 of those names are either tranfers who moved in after 9th grade or are from families who moved in prior to 9th grade but after they started playing youth hockey somewhere else, or simply open enrollees at the youth level who's families still live outside the Hermantown school district, then I'm confident he knows what he's talking about.

And yes, I do count Tyler as one of those 11 as he didn't start his youth playing career in Hermantown as a Mite 1. Did he "transfer" in the "honorable way" by having his parents actually move into the Hermantown school district? Absolutely. But, the point is, Hermantown gained a very talented player that didn't begin his youth "career" in Hermantown. In fact, as I've stated previously, even if a player does start his youth career as a first year Mite at Hermantown, if he had to open enroll to Hermantown due to living in a different school district, he or she still counts as a "transfer" as that player would otherwise have played for whichever high school is in the district his family resides in. Do I look at a player who open enrolls at kindergarten and starts playing in the Hermantown youth system his first year of organized hockey slightly differently than that of a player that transfers in as 3rd grader or older? Sure, because at least that decision was made at the outset versus after having played with their "friends" for 2 to 5 years in their original association that they live in and then open enrolling after their kid seems to be an above average player.

I even know of one Duluth player (currently still in Hermantown youth) whose parents open enrolled him in Hermantown school but kept ihim in his Duluth youth hockey association his first year in order to get around the Minnesota Hockey rule that prevents you from playing on the highest level team offered the first year you open enroll -- in this case Hermantown Squirt A versus Duluth's Squirt B. In fact, from what I've been told, almost half of this year's Hermantown Squirt "A" players did not start playing at Hermantown. Let me again reiterate that I truly belive the vast majority of Hermantown hockey leadership to be honorable people who care deeply about their kids and want to develop all of the players in their organization to the greatest degree possible. Many of them are my friends. However, that doesn't mean that when it comes to this specific issue, they might not be at least occasionaly affected by the glare of the Excel Energy Center lights... Smile

I'll say again, if Minnesota Hockey can be convinced to return to "play where you live" and not "play where you live OR go to school" AND, we can convince the MSHSL to limit class "A" schools from playing "AA" schools outside of conference opponents or holiday tourneys, Hermantown would either choose to move up very quickly or, within a few years the out of district talent pool would regress to the point that no one would be arguing they should move up.
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Section 8 guy



Joined: 25 Jun 2012
Posts: 308

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
8a is not a strong section. Not even close.


You might want to take a glance at the state tourney history. The 8 A rep has played in 10 state championship games in 25 years plus 4 third place finishes and a batch of Consolation titles. Every year but a few they've gone 2-1 or better in the Tourney with multiple teams getting to the Tourney. That sounds like a strong section by pretty much any way you'd measure it.


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Section 8 guy



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Posts: 308

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stray comment. There's a lot of mentions of Hermantown getting stronger in 2019. The 2019-2020 Hawks squad looks like the weakest version of the Hawks in quite a while. That group would probably be pretty overmatched playing AA. Should Biondi end up leaving early that would have a significant impact as well.

It does look like things look up from there.
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rainier2



Joined: 09 Nov 2017
Posts: 123

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HHawks4Ever wrote:
rainier2 wrote:
This just supports my theory that the Hermantown players just don't get excited to play in the A tourney anymore. These kids played AA all through youth, competed well, and then get demoted to single A where making it to the title game isn't a challenge anymore.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Just picturing the players sitting around Thursday night thinking, "man, do we really have to get up tomorrow morning to play some single A team for the chance to go to the state championship? I mean, who really cares at this point?" is making me laugh.

What I picture is the players sitting around saying, "man, we competed just fine our whole lives against the teams in the AA tourney, so why are we stuck playing in the A tourney?" I don't think it's funny, I think it's sad.

rainier2 wrote:
They did just fine against good AA programs this year, beating Wayzata, LS, and Marshall; and played close games with Tonka, EP, BSM, STMA, and CEC. Saying they would be put into running time is insane.


Based on how they played against Monticello/Alexandria, it really isn't insane. If you watched Hermantown play Alexandria Friday morning and then watched Edina, DE, Minnetonka and Centennial play Friday night and thought they would've had a chance to beat any of those four teams, I'm sorry but you must not have been watching the same games.

Of course Edina, DE, Tonka, and Centennial all looked great. They were hungry and trying to do something special. DE hadn't won a title since 97, Tonka had never won a title, Centennial won one title (15 years ago), and Edina hadn't even made it to state the last two years. Those were motivated, energized players out there.

Hermantown? They were playing a team in Alexandria who lost to Hibbing and Virginia by a combined score of 6-1, two teams Hermantown beat by a combined score of 10-4. And the night before, the Hawk players watched Alex squeak by TRF 1-0, the exact same TRF team Hermantown beat 5-0 while outshooting them 61-10!!!

If you honestly think the Hawk players were going into that game thinking, "man, we're going to have to play lights out if we want to get to our tenth straight A title game.", then I don't know what to tell you.


rainier2 wrote:
The "If we can't beat everyone in AA all the time, every year, then we should stay in single A" mind set drives me and many others crazy. No one gets to be great every year. Edina, EP, Tonka, East, etc., even these programs do not get to go to state every year. When Hermantown goes AA, they will get to state some years, and some years they will be the #4 seed in 7AA and lose in the semis, so start adjusting your expectations now so it won't be such a shock.


When did I say this? By no means would I expect them to make it to state every year in AA and I've already tempered my expectations if the move-up happens. All I said is that I hope the upcoming teams are much stronger compared to this year's team if they want to have any chance of making state in AA with all of the great programs in 7AA.

I never said you said it, I said it was a "mindset", one we've seen over and over from Hermantown apologists. I get that it may be hard for someone living in the Hermantown bubble to see this mindset in action, so allow me to spell it out:

In your original post, you said, "As someone mentioned in the other thread, flat out this year's team belonged in class A." Flat out belong in class A? You lost one game to an A team all season!!! You beat top 5 A teams Mahtomedi, Greenway twice, and SCC. Your regular season losses? They were to Wayzata, whom you later beat, EP, BSM, Tonka, STMA, and CEC, all very good to excellent AA programs, and all the losses were by 2 goals or less!!

You lost to Tonka, an incredibly stacked team who went on to win the AA title, 5-3 on the road. The shots were 34-26 Tonka, and the Skippers only took one penalty to Hermantown's four. Yet, you feel that Hermantown "flat out belonged in class A this season." Can't you see how insane that statement appears to 99% of non-Hermantown fans? How much better do your Hawks have to perform against the eventual AA champs for you to feel they belong in AA? This is the "beat everyone in AA, all the time" mindset I'm talking about.

My question for you is: "What type of season would've made you think Hermantown was good enough for AA this year?"


rainier2 wrote:
Hermantown beat the eventual AA champ two years in a row, played this year's AA champ tight, and all their youth teams were among the best in AA. Do you really want to see them continue to dominate in A just because they lost to a solid A team that played a great game?

The players and the coach don't want to be in A anymore, so I hope they get their wish next season.


My stance is that Hermantown can do whatever they feel is best fit and by no means should be forced to move-up due to their success. If they'd rather continue to go state every year in single A versus going to state one time in the next 10 years in AA, that's their decision. They've built an amazing youth system, have an enrollment around 600 students and have done nothing against the rules en route to nine straight state tournament appearances.

If the coach/players/parents/AD truly don't want to be in A anymore and decide to move-up, I'll continue to fully support the team but by no means should the rest of the state have any say in that decision.

Please stop with these empty statements that make it appear as though you're taking the high road in this debate. Your "stance" is that they shouldn't be forced to move up, that staying in single A is their decision, and that the rest of the state shouldn't have any say in that decision? That's not a stance, that's reality. They can't be forced to move up, staying in single A is their decision, and the rest of the state doesn't have a say in that decision. You might as well say your "stance" is that the sun will rise tomorrow!!

Also, your mentioning that Hermantown's enrollment is 600 students is the ultimate "tell" that you live and receive your mail within the Hermantown bubble. When you live in a metro area and you get open enrollees and transfers from the surrounding area, then your actual enrollment numbers are meaningless. Hill-Murray and Holy Family have fewer students than Hermantown, so by your logic they could be dominating in A and you would have no issue with that, right?

If a single loss by an uninspired Hermantown team to a hypermotivated Alex team whose goalie stopped 33/34 shots causes your faith in the Hawks to crumble, well, life in AA is going to very, very hard for you to navigate emotionally.
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Jeffy95



Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Net Presence wrote:
HHawks4Ever wrote:
Jeffy95 wrote:
It's important to constantly reinforce one fact in this debate.

If Hermantown won with Hermantown kids, there would be no calls for them to move up. They would be loved and cheered the same way that EGF was.

They've never done that, and that's where the pressure to move up comes from.

Last year's State Champion roster had 11 of 20 kids that came from other Associations. Sorry, but If you stay in Class A under those circumstances, you deserve all of the Public Shame that you get.


Yes, you've constantly stated these "facts" for as long as I've read the board.

For the bolded, please enlighten everyone and list out the 11 kids on last year's team and provide the school that they should've played for.

I'll even provide the roster for you to make it easier:

1. Austin Hess
2. Matt Valure
3. Trent Madill
4. Jacob Herter
5. Jesse Jacques
6. Brady Baker
7. Dawson Pietrusa
8. Ryan Sandelin
9. Dylan Samberg
10. Parker Simmons
11. Darian Gotz
12. Logan Judnick
13. Ben Siljendahl
14. Tyler Watkins*
15. Dylan Kolquist
16. Sam High
17. Elliott Peterson
18. Wyatt Sonneson
19. Brandon Schmidt
20. Jake Hausmann
21. Justin Thomas
22. Sam Scott
23. Nolan Halverson
24. Cade McEwen

*I really hope you include Tyler Watkins who moved to Hermantown from Colorado in the 5th grade.


First, I'm pretty sure I could name at least 7 or 8 of those kids from that roster but, I won't do so without being 100% sure beforehand. Still, I've known Scott Pionk for over 30 years and we're friends who've both been very fortunate to have experienced this game at almost every level and in almost every position imaginable. So, if he says 11 of those names are either tranfers who moved in after 9th grade or are from families who moved in prior to 9th grade but after they started playing youth hockey somewhere else, or simply open enrollees at the youth level who's families still live outside the Hermantown school district, then I'm confident he knows what he's talking about.

Agreed, Scott Pionk knows more about Hermantown hockey than anyone.

And yes, I do count Tyler as one of those 11 as he didn't start his youth playing career in Hermantown as a Mite 1. Did he "transfer" in the "honorable way" by having his parents actually move into the Hermantown school district? Absolutely. But, the point is, Hermantown gained a very talented player that didn't begin his youth "career" in Hermantown. In fact, as I've stated previously, even if a player does start his youth career as a first year Mite at Hermantown, if he had to open enroll to Hermantown due to living in a different school district, he or she still counts as a "transfer" as that player would otherwise have played for whichever high school is in the district his family resides in. Do I look at a player who open enrolls at kindergarten and starts playing in the Hermantown youth system his first year of organized hockey slightly differently than that of a player that transfers in as 3rd grader or older? Sure, because at least that decision was made at the outset versus after having played with their "friends" for 2 to 5 years in their original association that they live in and then open enrolling after their kid seems to be an above average player.

Tyler was one of the top players his age in Colorado. It's no surprise the family moved to Minnesota, more opportunities in Hockey for sure. Nothing wrong with that. His Dad was a Surgeon at the largest Hospital in Denver. He could have chosen any Hospital in Minnesota. He chose little old St. Luke's in Duluth and had his kid play for Hermantown. Not sure that's a career advancing move, but I'm not an expert on that. Again, there is nothing wrong with that, but has anyone ever moved to Eveleth, Greenway or Hibbing under similar circumstances?

I even know of one Duluth player (currently still in Hermantown youth) whose parents open enrolled him in Hermantown school but kept ihim in his Duluth youth hockey association his first year in order to get around the Minnesota Hockey rule that prevents you from playing on the highest level team offered the first year you open enroll -- in this case Hermantown Squirt A versus Duluth's Squirt B. In fact, from what I've been told, almost half of this year's Hermantown Squirt "A" players did not start playing at Hermantown. Let me again reiterate that I truly belive the vast majority of Hermantown hockey leadership to be honorable people who care deeply about their kids and want to develop all of the players in their organization to the greatest degree possible. Many of them are my friends. However, that doesn't mean that when it comes to this specific issue, they might not be at least occasionaly affected by the glare of the Excel Energy Center lights... Smile

I didn't know it was half, but I can tell you for certain that the top 4 players on that Squirt A team are open enrollees from Proctor and Duluth.

I'll say again, if Minnesota Hockey can be convinced to return to "play where you live" and not "play where you live OR go to school" AND, we can convince the MSHSL to limit class "A" schools from playing "AA" schools outside of conference opponents or holiday tourneys, Hermantown would either choose to move up very quickly or, within a few years the out of district talent pool would regress to the point that no one would be arguing they should move up.


Exactly, and that last paragraph sums up this entire debate. They've taken advantage of the system for over a decade to have it both ways. Get all of the top Free Agent talent, hide behind enrollment, play AA where you belong during the regular season and then dominate the Class A tourney. You shouldn't be able to have it both ways. Either play A with your own kids, or bring in the talent and move up to AA and compete against teams in the same situation.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Section 8 guy wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
8a is not a strong section. Not even close.


You might want to take a glance at the state tourney history. The 8 A rep has played in 10 state championship games in 25 years plus 4 third place finishes and a batch of Consolation titles. Every year but a few they've gone 2-1 or better in the Tourney with multiple teams getting to the Tourney. That sounds like a strong section by pretty much any way you'd measure it.


I've lived in the area for decades but thanks for the history lesson. Consolation titles ? Big deal, thats FIFTH place

Of course, since the original statement was 8a is very strong, not *has* been very strong, I'll stand by my statement, which includes the recently ended season.

Wink
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green4



Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1401
Location: Edina

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Section 8 guy wrote:
Stray comment. There's a lot of mentions of Hermantown getting stronger in 2019. The 2019-2020 Hawks squad looks like the weakest version of the Hawks in quite a while. That group would probably be pretty overmatched playing AA. Should Biondi end up leaving early that would have a significant impact as well.

It does look like things look up from there.


In 2019-2020 Biondi will be a Senior if he stays, but they will also have a group of Juniors and Sophomores who this year went to the Bantam AA state tournament. Included on that team would be Joey Pierce as a Junior who I have heard could be one of the best.
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zooomx



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 257

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
Section 8 guy wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
8a is not a strong section. Not even close.


You might want to take a glance at the state tourney history. The 8 A rep has played in 10 state championship games in 25 years plus 4 third place finishes and a batch of Consolation titles. Every year but a few they've gone 2-1 or better in the Tourney with multiple teams getting to the Tourney. That sounds like a strong section by pretty much any way you'd measure it.


I've lived in the area for decades but thanks for the history lesson. Consolation titles ? Big deal, thats FIFTH place

Of course, since the original statement was 8a is very strong, not *has* been very strong, I'll stand by my statement, which includes the recently ended season.

Wink


Ok, Mr McLiteral. What I intended to point out is that there are quality programs up north and I was alluding to more than just one year, as just one year does not define a program. My other point was that not necessarily are programs much weaker than in the past, but the quality of play and depth throughout the state has gotten much stronger. There seems to be deeper fields in many of the sections as well. 8A has some quality programs in it. They have been very strong in the past, and it would not surprise me if they are very strong in the future.

I would say that your "not even close" comment is a little extreme. They had 3 teams in the top 20, with some appearances in the top 10 this year.

Another note: 7 out of the top 10 teams in the end of season rankings were North of metro. Not sure if the North wants to claim Sartell and St. Cloud Cathedral, but the North is doing fine.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zooomx wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
Section 8 guy wrote:
zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
8a is not a strong section. Not even close.


You might want to take a glance at the state tourney history. The 8 A rep has played in 10 state championship games in 25 years plus 4 third place finishes and a batch of Consolation titles. Every year but a few they've gone 2-1 or better in the Tourney with multiple teams getting to the Tourney. That sounds like a strong section by pretty much any way you'd measure it.


I've lived in the area for decades but thanks for the history lesson. Consolation titles ? Big deal, thats FIFTH place

Of course, since the original statement was 8a is very strong, not *has* been very strong, I'll stand by my statement, which includes the recently ended season.

Wink


Ok, Mr McLiteral. What I intended to point out is that there are quality programs up north and I was alluding to more than just one year, as just one year does not define a program. My other point was that not necessarily are programs much weaker than in the past, but the quality of play and depth throughout the state has gotten much stronger. There seems to be deeper fields in many of the sections as well. 8A has some quality programs in it. They have been very strong in the past, and it would not surprise me if they are very strong in the future.

I would say that your "not even close" comment is a little extreme. They had 3 teams in the top 20, with some appearances in the top 10 this year.

Another note: 7 out of the top 10 teams in the end of season rankings were North of metro. Not sure if the North wants to claim Sartell and St. Cloud Cathedral, but the North is doing fine.


The top three teams in 8a were each barely above .500. You can spin it anyway you want, that is not "very strong".
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ILTG



Joined: 19 Mar 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rainier2 wrote:
HHawks4Ever wrote:
rainier2 wrote:
This just supports my theory that the Hermantown players just don't get excited to play in the A tourney anymore. These kids played AA all through youth, competed well, and then get demoted to single A where making it to the title game isn't a challenge anymore.


I'm still trying to wrap my head around this one. Just picturing the players sitting around Thursday night thinking, "man, do we really have to get up tomorrow morning to play some single A team for the chance to go to the state championship? I mean, who really cares at this point?" is making me laugh.

What I picture is the players sitting around saying, "man, we competed just fine our whole lives against the teams in the AA tourney, so why are we stuck playing in the A tourney?" I don't think it's funny, I think it's sad.

rainier2 wrote:
They did just fine against good AA programs this year, beating Wayzata, LS, and Marshall; and played close games with Tonka, EP, BSM, STMA, and CEC. Saying they would be put into running time is insane.


Based on how they played against Monticello/Alexandria, it really isn't insane. If you watched Hermantown play Alexandria Friday morning and then watched Edina, DE, Minnetonka and Centennial play Friday night and thought they would've had a chance to beat any of those four teams, I'm sorry but you must not have been watching the same games.

Of course Edina, DE, Tonka, and Centennial all looked great. They were hungry and trying to do something special. DE hadn't won a title since 97, Tonka had never won a title, Centennial won one title (15 years ago), and Edina hadn't even made it to state the last two years. Those were motivated, energized players out there.

Hermantown? They were playing a team in Alexandria who lost to Hibbing and Virginia by a combined score of 6-1, two teams Hermantown beat by a combined score of 10-4. And the night before, the Hawk players watched Alex squeak by TRF 1-0, the exact same TRF team Hermantown beat 5-0 while outshooting them 61-10!!!

If you honestly think the Hawk players were going into that game thinking, "man, we're going to have to play lights out if we want to get to our tenth straight A title game.", then I don't know what to tell you.


rainier2 wrote:
The "If we can't beat everyone in AA all the time, every year, then we should stay in single A" mind set drives me and many others crazy. No one gets to be great every year. Edina, EP, Tonka, East, etc., even these programs do not get to go to state every year. When Hermantown goes AA, they will get to state some years, and some years they will be the #4 seed in 7AA and lose in the semis, so start adjusting your expectations now so it won't be such a shock.


When did I say this? By no means would I expect them to make it to state every year in AA and I've already tempered my expectations if the move-up happens. All I said is that I hope the upcoming teams are much stronger compared to this year's team if they want to have any chance of making state in AA with all of the great programs in 7AA.

I never said you said it, I said it was a "mindset", one we've seen over and over from Hermantown apologists. I get that it may be hard for someone living in the Hermantown bubble to see this mindset in action, so allow me to spell it out:

In your original post, you said, "As someone mentioned in the other thread, flat out this year's team belonged in class A." Flat out belong in class A? You lost one game to an A team all season!!! You beat top 5 A teams Mahtomedi, Greenway twice, and SCC. Your regular season losses? They were to Wayzata, whom you later beat, EP, BSM, Tonka, STMA, and CEC, all very good to excellent AA programs, and all the losses were by 2 goals or less!!

You lost to Tonka, an incredibly stacked team who went on to win the AA title, 5-3 on the road. The shots were 34-26 Tonka, and the Skippers only took one penalty to Hermantown's four. Yet, you feel that Hermantown "flat out belonged in class A this season." Can't you see how insane that statement appears to 99% of non-Hermantown fans? How much better do your Hawks have to perform against the eventual AA champs for you to feel they belong in AA? This is the "beat everyone in AA, all the time" mindset I'm talking about.

My question for you is: "What type of season would've made you think Hermantown was good enough for AA this year?"


rainier2 wrote:
Hermantown beat the eventual AA champ two years in a row, played this year's AA champ tight, and all their youth teams were among the best in AA. Do you really want to see them continue to dominate in A just because they lost to a solid A team that played a great game?

The players and the coach don't want to be in A anymore, so I hope they get their wish next season.


My stance is that Hermantown can do whatever they feel is best fit and by no means should be forced to move-up due to their success. If they'd rather continue to go state every year in single A versus going to state one time in the next 10 years in AA, that's their decision. They've built an amazing youth system, have an enrollment around 600 students and have done nothing against the rules en route to nine straight state tournament appearances.

If the coach/players/parents/AD truly don't want to be in A anymore and decide to move-up, I'll continue to fully support the team but by no means should the rest of the state have any say in that decision.

Please stop with these empty statements that make it appear as though you're taking the high road in this debate. Your "stance" is that they shouldn't be forced to move up, that staying in single A is their decision, and that the rest of the state shouldn't have any say in that decision? That's not a stance, that's reality. They can't be forced to move up, staying in single A is their decision, and the rest of the state doesn't have a say in that decision. You might as well say your "stance" is that the sun will rise tomorrow!!

Also, your mentioning that Hermantown's enrollment is 600 students is the ultimate "tell" that you live and receive your mail within the Hermantown bubble. When you live in a metro area and you get open enrollees and transfers from the surrounding area, then your actual enrollment numbers are meaningless. Hill-Murray and Holy Family have fewer students than Hermantown, so by your logic they could be dominating in A and you would have no issue with that, right?

If a single loss by an uninspired Hermantown team to a hypermotivated Alex team whose goalie stopped 33/34 shots causes your faith in the Hawks to crumble, well, life in AA is going to very, very hard for you to navigate emotionally.
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Puckguy19



Joined: 16 May 2006
Posts: 562

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

green4 wrote:
Section 8 guy wrote:
Stray comment. There's a lot of mentions of Hermantown getting stronger in 2019. The 2019-2020 Hawks squad looks like the weakest version of the Hawks in quite a while. That group would probably be pretty overmatched playing AA. Should Biondi end up leaving early that would have a significant impact as well.

It does look like things look up from there.


In 2019-2020 Biondi will be a Senior if he stays, but they will also have a group of Juniors and Sophomores who this year went to the Bantam AA state tournament. Included on that team would be Joey Pierce as a Junior who I have heard could be one of the best.


Biondi’s got a big decision to make, in short order.
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kniven



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 1751
Location: Esko

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He should leave early. Stick around to compete for an A state title when the team doesn’t need you to accomplish this. Sounds like a cut and dry decision......
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