Section Seeding

Discussion of Minnesota Girls High School Hockey

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MNHockeyFan
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Section Seeding

Post by MNHockeyFan » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:26 pm

Last edited by MNHockeyFan on Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 4 times in total.

knights14
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Something needs to change

Post by knights14 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 7:40 pm

How is it that in section 3 the East Ridge Raptors receive the 5 seed and AV,Park and Burnsville go 2,3,4 respectively. And i get it you eventually have to play the tough games at some point but this is a complete screw job. East Ridge finishes ahead of Park in the conference beats them both times during the season and Park gets the 3 seed? East Ridge played 3 top 15 non conference opponents with #1 and #3 being two of those teams. Burnsville played nobody inside the top 25 for non conference and only won 3 conference games. AV played 1 top 20 non conference team. Common opponents was a tie between AV,Burnsville and East Ridge. Park lost more common opponent games then the other 3. Park beat AV straight up but lost to Burnsville. I would gladly put the top 7 teams in the Suburban East up against the South Suburban any day of the week. I know how it happens you get 5 coaches from the same conference in section 3 and they dictate who goes where. What a JOKE. The KRACH and the QRF are nice tools to have as a guide but they are not accurate enough to seed teams. Common sense needs to come into play at some point and apparently that was missing at the section 3 meeting. I do not have a horse in the race but am a east metro fan. Help me out experts

highgloveside
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Post by highgloveside » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:08 pm

Agreed Knights14. I can say with certainty that East Ridge is superior to both Burnsville and Park. I don't know much about AV but IMO EastRidge and Eastview should have higher seeds. It will be Eagan VS East Ridge for the right to play Eastview anyway so don't worry about seeding just yet.

Sparlimb
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Post by Sparlimb » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:25 pm

As I like to say on the boys side, the good news is East Ridge gets a chance to prove it. It's not like their seeding dropped them from the playoffs. And last line change isn't that important at this level. So go prove it girls...

thegreatone99
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Re: Something needs to change

Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:55 am

knights14 wrote:How is it that in section 3 the East Ridge Raptors receive the 5 seed and AV,Park and Burnsville go 2,3,4 respectively. And i get it you eventually have to play the tough games at some point but this is a complete screw job. East Ridge finishes ahead of Park in the conference beats them both times during the season and Park gets the 3 seed? East Ridge played 3 top 15 non conference opponents with #1 and #3 being two of those teams. Burnsville played nobody inside the top 25 for non conference and only won 3 conference games. AV played 1 top 20 non conference team. Common opponents was a tie between AV,Burnsville and East Ridge. Park lost more common opponent games then the other 3. Park beat AV straight up but lost to Burnsville. I would gladly put the top 7 teams in the Suburban East up against the South Suburban any day of the week. I know how it happens you get 5 coaches from the same conference in section 3 and they dictate who goes where. What a JOKE. The KRACH and the QRF are nice tools to have as a guide but they are not accurate enough to seed teams. Common sense needs to come into play at some point and apparently that was missing at the section 3 meeting. I do not have a horse in the race but am a east metro fan. Help me out experts
I definetly think these seedings are accurate.

knights14
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Seedings

Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:30 am

I do think Eagan is the cream of the crop and AV, Burnsville, and East Ridge are basically the same team. My point is you finish ahead of a team in your conference beat them twice during the season and basically have the same record as them and they are seeded in front of you. How does that make sense Gretzky? There non conference schedule was a joke compared to East Ridge and strength of schedule was much weaker then East Ridge. Bottom line the system is messed up. You still have to play the games I get it but at least have some integrity when your a coach at a seeding meeting.

thegreatone99
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Re: Seedings

Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:34 am

knights14 wrote:I do think Eagan is the cream of the crop and AV, Burnsville, and East Ridge are basically the same team. My point is you finish ahead of a team in your conference beat them twice during the season and basically have the same record as them and they are seeded in front of you. How does that make sense Gretzky? There non conference schedule was a joke compared to East Ridge and strength of schedule was much weaker then East Ridge. Bottom line the system is messed up. You still have to play the games I get it but at least have some integrity when your a coach at a seeding meeting.
And you have no horse in this game, but know so many of the details? Seems like a lot of time spent on something so trivial?

knights14
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Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:42 am

Just answer the question 99, I know it's hard for you to stick to the subject at hand but give it a go big guy why in your mind should they be a higher seed.

knights14
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Seeding

Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:04 am

No horse just friends with horses on multiple teams in the East metro area. I'm sure this happens in all sections it's just too bad some coaches not all coaches let their emotions dictate section meetings. There has to be a better system out there.

thegreatone99
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Post by thegreatone99 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:58 am

knights14 wrote:Just answer the question 99, I know it's hard for you to stick to the subject at hand but give it a go big guy why in your mind should they be a higher seed.
I think the seeds should be based on team colors and all these teams have better combo colors. Blaze is like the mini Steelers, they could be #1. The Eagles just won the Super Bowl, so maybe AV should be the top side, so many choices.

knights14
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Seeding

Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:07 am

Perfect

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:18 pm

AV, and Burnsville had tougher schedules according to KRACH. East Ridge only had a slightly stronger schedule than Park.

I think at this point in the season, KRACH is fairly accurate and it has AV, Burnsville and Park all pretty even, with East Ridge actually 6th, in the section behind Eastview. In the end they are a 12-13 team. Seems strange to me the level of angst on this topic from someone without a horse in the race. Looks like a big ole nothingburger to me.

knights14
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Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:44 pm

Again this could be any team but since I have a connection and follow the East team's it happens to be East Ridge. If you just stick to the topic at hand which is how can any team with basically the same record as another team who has finished below said team and has been beaten twice by that team be seeded ahead of them? I just looked at the KRACH rankings and they are not updated and even if they were it's only a tool to look at. For you people that are obsessed with thinking there is some conspiracy behind the post I have some nice swamp land to sell you in the back 40. I was just looking for an answer on how this happens and what would be an alternative for seeding team's. Good luck to all team's it should be fun.

highgloveside
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Post by highgloveside » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:45 pm

Eastview had the toughest schedule of the group by far. They are a pretty good team that works pretty hard the whole game and makes it tough for anybody. East Ridge on the other hand was missing their Best player for a good chunk of the season, say what you want but One really good player makes a BIG difference in girls HS hockey. I don't want to take anything away from Park because they have some nice players too but I really don't think they should be seeded higher than East Ridge. If Burnsville was still the Braves I would Root for them.

zooomx
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Post by zooomx » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:53 pm

I understand that an argument can be made, I just don't think it is a HUGE slight. I agree that having coaches vote does seem kind of silly, as shenanigans could definitely happen. Krach rankings were updated on 2/3, so other than those saturday games, it will be pretty darn close.

I terms of the missing player, I often wonder how much coaches take that into consideration when they vote. That's a tough call to make.

It looks to me, for a far, that Eagan is the clear #1, with 5 teams behind them without a whole lot of separation. Should be a fun section tourney!

knights14
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seeding

Post by knights14 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:12 pm

Agreed Zooomx

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:44 pm

The unfortunate situation for the East Ridge team/fans is that as a 4 or 5 seed it will play the clear #1 in the section in semi's rather than the final.

If memory serves me correct East Ridge was missing their best player (or D) the first half of the season. Or at least a significant chunk of the season.

Hansonbrother
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Post by Hansonbrother » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:12 pm

Sparlimb wrote: And last line change isn't that important at this level. So go prove it girls...
couldn't disagree with you more on this topic...I think it's especially important at this level and at this time of the year!!...this is where you get to take advantage of depths versus the lack there of...This is where you get the face off mismatches and the 1st versus 3rd line advantages...I can't speak for you, but in my opinion, there is usually a huge difference in girls hockey between 1st and 3rd lines.

allhoc11
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Post by allhoc11 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:11 pm

massalsa wrote:The unfortunate situation for the East Ridge team/fans is that as a 4 or 5 seed it will play the clear #1 in the section in semi's rather than the final.

If memory serves me correct East Ridge was missing their best player (or D) the first half of the season. Or at least a significant chunk of the season.
Look on the bright side they could be in Section 6.

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:40 pm

allhoc11 wrote: Look on the bright side they could be in Section 6.
Whose #3 could arguably be a #1 in 3-4 sections...

Sections by difficulty (?):

1. 6
2. 5
3. 4 or 7
4. 4 or 7
5. 2
6. 1/3/8
7. 1/3/8
8. 1/3/8

Lace'emUp
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Post by Lace'emUp » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:51 pm

allhoc11 wrote:
massalsa wrote:The unfortunate situation for the East Ridge team/fans is that as a 4 or 5 seed it will play the clear #1 in the section in semi's rather than the final.

If memory serves me correct East Ridge was missing their best player (or D) the first half of the season. Or at least a significant chunk of the season.
Look on the bright side they could be in Section 6.
If this was the 2018 World Cup soccer group draw, Section 6AA would be this year's "Group of Death" with Blake, Edina and Wayzata. Section 5AA not far behind with Blaine, Centennial, and Maple Grove.

Mnnstar
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Post by Mnnstar » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:56 pm

Looking at at the double A seedings there are at least two teams from each section that could make the State tournament some sections are as deep as 4.
Sections 4, 5 and 6 seem to be closest and most capable of a surprise. In section 4 even though Hill is the #1 seed they are not as strong as they have been in the past and both Moundsview and WBL could surprise there. In 6 Obviously Blake and Edina are favored but again Wayzata and CDH could Surprise. In Five Baine, Maple Grove, Centennial, Cent is the Favorite all bets are off if you keep the dynamic Duo off the board. In 2 Shakopee could surprise. In 1 One of the Lakeville schools or Northfield as a Darkhorse.
In 7 Elk River is playing better
and in 8 NWC could surprise.
It will be interesting to see who upsets this year.

TheNightman
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Post by TheNightman » Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:10 pm

Shouldn't 8AA and 4A be out by now?

massalsa
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Post by massalsa » Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:04 pm

Lace'emUp wrote: If this was the 2018 World Cup soccer group draw, Section 6AA would be this year's "Group of Death" with Blake, Edina and Wayzata. Section 5AA not far behind with Blaine, Centennial, and Maple Grove.
Each one of these teams has above average to elite goalies. Also have at least 1 and as many as 3 almost elite lines of F's. I would add WBL & Hill to this conversation with excellent goalies and some serious offensive firepower.

MNHockeyFan
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Post by MNHockeyFan » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:14 pm

TheNightman wrote:Shouldn't 8AA and 4A be out by now?
8AA is traditionally the last section to be seeded. According to what's shown on:

http://www.mshsl.org/mshsl/showsection.asp?actnum=460

their "2018 - Seeding Coaches Vote" is scheduled for tomorrow, February 7th.

Not sure about 4A.

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