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NTDP Camp Roster
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Stang5280



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kniven wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


It's his opinion. If you are offended easily, than this forum is not for you.

Iím not offended, and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion (including me). I just donít agree with the logic of automatically applauding a player for returning to high school. This is a discussion forum, after all, and I am just trying to draw out some dialogue on the subject.
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kniven



Joined: 20 Feb 2011
Posts: 1751
Location: Esko

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stang5280 wrote:
kniven wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


It's his opinion. If you are offended easily, than this forum is not for you.

Iím not offended, and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion (including me). I just donít agree with the logic of automatically applauding a player for returning to high school. This is a discussion forum, after all, and I am just trying to draw out some dialogue on the subject.


Sounds good. Cause Iím sure I offend a lot of fine folks on this forum, but iím Really not too concerned about it.
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Jeffy95



Joined: 17 Nov 2015
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stang5280 wrote:
kniven wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


It's his opinion. If you are offended easily, than this forum is not for you.

Iím not offended, and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion (including me). I just donít agree with the logic of automatically applauding a player for returning to high school. This is a discussion forum, after all, and I am just trying to draw out some dialogue on the subject.


I'm not anti-NTDP, but the only guarantee with it is that you will never get those two years of your childhood back. I think that is why most applaud the kids who stay in High School. It might get you to College Hockey quicker than if you stay in High School, which some may find value in. But I don't think it does anything to change the level that you will eventually obtain. If you have the talent and the drive, you will get there regardless of the route you take. I could see it maybe being a good fit for the kid who doesn't have any interests outside of Hockey, but I don't know how many of those kids are out there. Developing as a Person will always be more important than developing as a Hockey Player in my humble opinion.

Herb Brooks felt that it was a huge waste of resources.
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hockey59



Joined: 22 May 2006
Posts: 851

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stang5280 wrote:
kniven wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


It's his opinion. If you are offended easily, than this forum is not for you.

Iím not offended, and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion (including me). I just donít agree with the logic of automatically applauding a player for returning to high school. This is a discussion forum, after all, and I am just trying to draw out some dialogue on the subject.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If your son gets invited to play at NTDP...itís no small decision to make. There is no ďrightĒ or ďwrongĒ decision. It depends on a multitude of factors. The big thing about NTDP...itís about ďtryingĒ to accelerate your development as a player & the opportunity to represent your country in International Tournaments. But the downside is living away from home & for some kids (not all)ígiving up the chance to play at Xcel in the State Tourney with the guys you grew up with. Itís a tough decision, but in the end, it comes down to what your SON wants to do (in his hockey career).
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TheNightman



Joined: 21 Nov 2008
Posts: 305

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


I'm sure there was a lot of pressure on Smith and I think it's refreshing to see kids turn down the NTDP and stay in high school. My post was not meant as a criticism of players who accept the offer.

The NTDP is a great choice for a lot of kids and I can't argue with the results but I think ultimately if you're good enough you'll make it anyways.
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Stang5280



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheNightman wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


I'm sure there was a lot of pressure on Smith and I think it's refreshing to see kids turn down the NTDP and stay in high school. My post was not meant as a criticism of players who accept the offer.

The NTDP is a great choice for a lot of kids and I can't argue with the results but I think ultimately if you're good enough you'll make it anyways.

Thanks for the thoughtful follow up. I didnít mean to take a specific dig at you, but I do become frustrated at some of the attitudes toward players who follow different paths. As you stated, it is a difficult choice for each player based on their situation. And I have no doubt that a player good enough to make the U17 program will find success through the high school route as well.
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zamboniexhaustinhaler



Joined: 19 Feb 2016
Posts: 250

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


I'm sure there was a lot of pressure on Smith and I think it's refreshing to see kids turn down the NTDP and stay in high school. My post was not meant as a criticism of players who accept the offer.

The NTDP is a great choice for a lot of kids and I can't argue with the results but I think ultimately if you're good enough you'll make it anyways.

Thanks for the thoughtful follow up. I didnít mean to take a specific dig at you, but I do become frustrated at some of the attitudes toward players who follow different paths. As you stated, it is a difficult choice for each player based on their situation. And I have no doubt that a player good enough to make the U17 program will find success through the high school route as well.


Why would someone having a different opinion bother you so much ?
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Stang5280



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hockey59 wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
kniven wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
TheNightman wrote:
Puckguy19 wrote:
Smith said no. https://www.sctimes.com/story/sports/high-school/2018/04/04/prep-hockey-smith-turns-down-u-s-national-under-17-team-return-cathedral/484166002/


Good for him, Cathedral will be loaded next year.

Iím going to push back on this comment a bit. Would you have the same opinion if Smith accepted the offer? I realize this is a high school hockey message board, so we are inclined to be happy when the best players donít leave early, in large part because it improves our experience as fans. But isnít that a selfish perspective, and shouldnít we support whatever decision the players and families feel is in their best interests?

The NTDP is not for everyone given the commitment and sacrifices involved. However, there is no arguing the success of the program in developing players and preparing them for college and even professional hockey. The young men in the NTDP play a ton of games against high-level opposition, and also have the privilege of representing their country in international competition. I just donít see how you can criticize any player for choosing that route.


It's his opinion. If you are offended easily, than this forum is not for you.

Iím not offended, and certainly everyone is entitled to their opinion (including me). I just donít agree with the logic of automatically applauding a player for returning to high school. This is a discussion forum, after all, and I am just trying to draw out some dialogue on the subject.
Everybody is entitled to their opinion. If your son gets invited to play at NTDP...itís no small decision to make. There is no ďrightĒ or ďwrongĒ decision. It depends on a multitude of factors. The big thing about NTDP...itís about ďtryingĒ to accelerate your development as a player & the opportunity to represent your country in International Tournaments. But the downside is living away from home & for some kids (not all)ígiving up the chance to play at Xcel in the State Tourney with the guys you grew up with. Itís a tough decision, but in the end, it comes down to what your SON wants to do (in his hockey career).

I tried to convey that it is a nuanced decision, though perhaps not as well as you did. The original comment was just very short, and the commentor followed up that post nicely with more explanation. And these types of posts, I think, are helpful conversation for the forum. (Especially when we are bored in the off-season and hockey in general is winding down.)
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SCBlueLiner



Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 602

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question, why is the NTDP evaluating 2002's for the U17 program? Those kids will be U16 next year.
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Stang5280



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zamboniexhaustinhaler wrote:
Stang5280 wrote:
Thanks for the thoughtful follow up. I didnít mean to take a specific dig at you, but I do become frustrated at some of the attitudes toward players who follow different paths. As you stated, it is a difficult choice for each player based on their situation. And I have no doubt that a player good enough to make the U17 program will find success through the high school route as well.


Why would someone having a different opinion bother you so much ?

Youíre right, it shouldnít, and I will just stop flapping my yap and painting myself into a corner even worse than I already have. Thanks for the helpful daily reminder that I can be an idiot Laughing
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Stang5280



Joined: 28 Jun 2017
Posts: 336

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCBlueLiner wrote:
I have a question, why is the NTDP evaluating 2002's for the U17 program? Those kids will be U16 next year.

I believe it is primarily due to the fact that the team participates in the U17 World Challenge at the end of the year. Thus, the players must all be under the age of 17 as of December 31, 2018 (2002 birthdates).

Also, the age bracketing that USA Hockey follows is different from most other countries. Here, at least outside of Minnesota, we use brackets like 18U (18 & under), as opposed to the international version of U18 (under 18 ). The former means that a player can be 18 during the year in question, while the latter prevents 18-year-olds from playing. So the NTDP follows the international convention given that they compete in tournaments outside the United States.
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O-townClown



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 3254
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCBlueLiner wrote:
I have a question, why is the NTDP evaluating 2002's for the U17 program? Those kids will be U16 next year.


Stang is right. 16U is U17. 16 & Under = Under 17.
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SCBlueLiner



Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 602

PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got it. Thanks guys.
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O-townClown



Joined: 10 Oct 2007
Posts: 3254
Location: Typical homeboy from the O-Town

PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just realized another Minnesotan was at the Final 40 tryout. Cameron Berg is listed with a Grand Forks, ND address. According to my son, this is the same kid from White Bear Lake's Bantam team a year ago.
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SCBlueLiner



Joined: 16 Aug 2012
Posts: 602

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cam Berg did play at WBL, he was on Omaha AAA U16 team this season. Maybe his parents moved? Don't really know.
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CHI-TOWN HOCKEYDAD



Joined: 08 May 2011
Posts: 101

PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SCBlueLiner wrote:
Cam Berg did play at WBL, he was on Omaha AAA U16 team this season. Maybe his parents moved? Don't really know.


Still live in WB. Moved there several years ago. Attended HM in 9th grade.
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