Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

The Latest 400 or so Topics

Moderators: Mitch Hawker, east hockey, karl(east)

Odds of a season happening

Yes 100%
34
43%
50-50
31
39%
probably not
12
15%
no way
2
3%
 
Total votes: 79

blueblood
Posts: 2481
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:36 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:20 am

Games are happening. MN starts July 1. Be safe my friends.
Play Like a Champion Today

jg2112
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 8:36 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by jg2112 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:43 am

blueblood wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:20 am
Games are happening. MN starts July 1. Be safe my friends.
Agree with you here. Let's hope Minnesotans don't go to vacation in California, Florida, Texas or Arizona for the next 3 months. If they don't, I have more confidence we'll have a winter hockey season.

blueblood
Posts: 2481
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 8:36 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by blueblood » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:55 am

👆👍
Play Like a Champion Today

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:09 pm

So if you don’t think it’s 99.9999%, then what do you think it is? You’re admitting you don’t know the exact number. So why not 99.9%? You’re right, I’m definitely not saying it’s like the flu. It’s pretty established that this is an order of magnitude worse for the population as a whole. When you break it down by age of course, that changes, but it should be understood that hockey and all sports are not just the players. Coaches, refs, and trainers particularly are involved. This makes a season harder. I just don’t think you should be throwing out numbers as perceived fact.

As for immunity, you are making the common mistake of confusing a lack of proof with a lack of evidence. There is A LOT of evidence that infection causes some level of immunity. Much of that evidence was listed in the very article you provided. Proof, from a scientific perspective, is much more rigorous and takes a lot longer.

Finally, as for admins staying cautious. You are probably right to an extent in theory, but in practice it’s more complicated. For example, players and coaches have been practicing in MSHSL and high school sanctioned summer training programs for over a week now, and will be able to play scrimmages and games come July 1. All with AD approval. Yes, this is all assuming no “Second Wave,” which changes the game. But a lot of that assumption is based off of previous flu pandemics, and as we’ve already established, this is not the flu.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:13 am

ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 7:09 pm
So if you don’t think it’s 99.9999%, then what do you think it is? You’re admitting you don’t know the exact number. So why not 99.9%? You’re right, I’m definitely not saying it’s like the flu. It’s pretty established that this is an order of magnitude worse for the population as a whole. When you break it down by age of course, that changes, but it should be understood that hockey and all sports are not just the players. Coaches, refs, and trainers particularly are involved. This makes a season harder. I just don’t think you should be throwing out numbers as perceived fact.

As for immunity, you are making the common mistake of confusing a lack of proof with a lack of evidence. There is A LOT of evidence that infection causes some level of immunity. Much of that evidence was listed in the very article you provided. Proof, from a scientific perspective, is much more rigorous and takes a lot longer.

Finally, as for admins staying cautious. You are probably right to an extent in theory, but in practice it’s more complicated. For example, players and coaches have been practicing in MSHSL and high school sanctioned summer training programs for over a week now, and will be able to play scrimmages and games come July 1. All with AD approval. Yes, this is all assuming no “Second Wave,” which changes the game. But a lot of that assumption is based off of previous flu pandemics, and as we’ve already established, this is not the flu.
First, I've never presented any numbers I've used as "fact". Simply indicating that for both administrators and parents, for them to be confident in allowing sports to occur, or kids to go back to school, or parents to feel comfortable allowing their kids to play, there will need to be an extremely high level of certainty -- likely as high as 95 plus percent effective -- that a therapeutic will prevent their child from having to go to an ICU.

I'm sorry but, I consider myself as well read on Covid as any lay person can be and, I haven't seen anything that can conclusively stand as "evidence" of some sort of immunity. Please link to anything you feel does prove this so I may inform myself. To be clear, most scientists/researchers believe there is likely some immunity developed after being infected. However, everything I have read to this point indicates that is completely based on the fact that all previous coronaviruses have resulted in some level of immunity after initial infection. Not because there is any definitive current science that proves this in the case of Covid 19.

Finally, yes, sports and teams are currently able to practice and even play games soon and, those activities are allowed -- key word being allowed -- by the MSHSL. However, all of these programs are run to the private/personal benefit of the people (obviously, usually the coach) of those people. All the MSHSL is saying is that you're allowed to have contact with your players. That's not the same as saying they -- the MSHSL -- believes they have any authority to prevent that contact due to the virus. When the kids are out of school, I'm fairly confident any restrictions applied would have to come at the local/state government level, versus thru the MSHSL. Meaning, what is allowed at the moment by the state, is separate from how the MSHSL might choose to go once they are at a point they need to make a decision about the upcoming school year/sports seasons.

ThatMNHockeyGuy62
Posts: 438
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by ThatMNHockeyGuy62 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:02 pm

Wise Old Man, I don’t have the time nor the energy to go back and forth on all of this, but you are continuing to use proof and evidence somewhat interchangeably. In addition to the link that you posted, which listed several reasons and studies that scientists believe there is evidence of a certain level of immunity, I’ve linked two others:

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-immunity.html


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... infectious

If you read through them they do a pretty good job of showing that no, there is not definitive proof *yet*, but there is a multitude of studies that provide evidence of it. These articles do use previous coronavirus’s as evidence, as they should, and they also go beyond that. These are just the first couple I found. As more come up I’ll try and send them to you.

I don’t mean to come off as minimizing the virus. Like I’ve said, it’s clearly MUCH worse than the flu for a significant and important portion of the population. I only posit that we’re still a long ways from November and we should see how continued summer training, hockey around the world, European schools open for over a month, and even American schools in for the first few months of fall react before making sweeping predictions now.

Wise Old Man
Posts: 86
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:11 pm

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Wise Old Man » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:21 am

ThatMNHockeyGuy62 wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 10:02 pm
Wise Old Man, I don’t have the time nor the energy to go back and forth on all of this, but you are continuing to use proof and evidence somewhat interchangeably. In addition to the link that you posted, which listed several reasons and studies that scientists believe there is evidence of a certain level of immunity, I’ve linked two others:

https://www.livescience.com/covid-19-immunity.html


https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... infectious

If you read through them they do a pretty good job of showing that no, there is not definitive proof *yet*, but there is a multitude of studies that provide evidence of it. These articles do use previous coronavirus’s as evidence, as they should, and they also go beyond that. These are just the first couple I found. As more come up I’ll try and send them to you.

I don’t mean to come off as minimizing the virus. Like I’ve said, it’s clearly MUCH worse than the flu for a significant and important portion of the population. I only posit that we’re still a long ways from November and we should see how continued summer training, hockey around the world, European schools open for over a month, and even American schools in for the first few months of fall react before making sweeping predictions now.

TMNH, I'm sorry you may not have the time to go back and forth about this stuff but, isn't that a big part of what these forums are all about? 8) As for how you choose to define proof and evidence or, your interpretation of how you feel I am or am not using them... I think you and I agree on far more than we may not. And, if I understand you correctly, you and I agree that "proof" is determined by overwhelming "evidence".

Both are good articles that go further than what I've previously read in terms of the strength of their stance that almost all of these supposed "second" infections are actually dead virus from the original infection. This is great to hear. I also agree that the fact people who have recovered from Covid have neutralizing antibodies and, considering in almost every previous coronavirus those same neutralizing antibodies have ultimately proven to provide some type of immunity, that it makes sense to theorize the same thing will probably hold true for this virus. However, until science is able to definitively prove that, it's simply still a theory. A very good theory with good history (ok, we can call that evidence if you want) behind it but, a theory. :D

Nothing wrong with wanting to get more info from how things play out for a few more weeks but, the administrators in charge of deciding if we allow kids back to school have to determine that by the end of July as they'll need that next month to get online learning improved and finalized if they choose to go that way. Or, if it's a modified in school attendance approach -- every other day or, half days -- they also need that month to finalize those plans and implement them as well. And, since fall sports officially start the third week of August, they'll need to decide on fall sports by the end of July as well. And, if you think they'll decide to delay or cancel fall sports but let winter sports be played, I think you'll be disappointed. Next, I have been informed by people I trust that there are a number of parents of non-sport/extra-curricular students from around the state that have already "lawyered up" and intend on taking the MSHSL to court to prevent them from allowing extra-curricular activities since many of them have provably shown to increase risk of spread. If, repeat IF that's true, I highly doubt the MSHSL is willing or able to spend the money to fight that fight. I hope that doesn't happen but, would that really surprise any of us if it did?

Hunters1993
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2020 9:22 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by Hunters1993 » Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:48 am

Doesn’t surprise me one bit that parents are willing to go after the sports for exposing the school so little Johnny can play his hockey. I would do the same thing if I felt the MSHSL was putting my kid in danger of infection so little Johnny can play hockey. Take a look at college football. Those are much older kids and they are getting infected and taking it to practice where they infect teammates Now imagine if school was in and those kids go to class and infect the class, teacher, and on it goes!

On KFAN Lou Nanne said the exact same thing. He wouldn’t want his kid bringing from the game to the classroom and spreading it. And he is a huge puck head and he still gets it.
How many c-chip games will it take Hawks?

goldy313
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:04 pm

The Minnesota Medical Association announced today that they are advocating state leaders to make wearing of masks mandatory in all public indoor buildings. Jan Malcolm advocated for this today during the MDH briefing along with masks outdoors as well. The MMA is hardly apolitical so take that for what it is worth.

It is likely Walz will go along with this, it is unenforceable but if it goes through indoor sports are done for the year as this order would likely persist until next spring.

Not so curiously the MSM focuses on rising positive case counts in non mandated mask states Arizona, Florida, and Texas but some how leaves out mask wearing California.......

The population packed Northeast struggled with high infection rates early when it was cold and people were inside, the Southern tier and California had much lower rates but people were outside. Now it has reversed, the Northeast is doing much better and people are outside while the heat has driven people inside in the South and California. We probably could infer that being outside slows the spread based on that and that protests haven’t shown the widespread infection rates we feared. Opening up your state probably was OK, young people packed in bars was the same as packing people into apartment buildings, subways, etc.

It will be interesting to see what happens in Minnesota by late July after this extended period of heat we are about to get.

Assuming some immunity....Part of me thinks this spike in young healthy people getting the virus now is a lot less catastrophic than it would be next fall when we are driven back inside. It helps the move towards herd immunity, we need to be extra vigilant of those at risk though.

*edit* Mayo is doing antibody testing on any Mayo employee that wants it, starting with personnel in direct patient care then everyone else. There are 3 possible outcomes....
1) Higher than expected positives; the virus is more widespread than we thought and more people than we thought had it and were either asymptotic or had very mild symptoms.
2) Lower than expected positives; the virus really hasn’t been here yet or isn’t spread as easily as thought.
3) positive rate is what is reported.
To the best of my knowledge this is the first widespread antibody test being done. The results could have a fairy big impact on how we move forward.

goldy313
Posts: 3536
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:56 am

Re: Will there be high school hockey for 2020-2021?

Post by goldy313 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:57 pm

Hockey is a winter sport......

The Texas version of the MSHSL the University Interscholastic League (UIL) has proposed switching the fall and spring seasons.....track, baseball, softball, and tennis would occur in the fall while football and volleyball would be spring sports.

Post Reply