Ms. Hockey 2023

[Eagles93]

but she's literally never had a bad game for Edina (never given up more than 3 goals, I believe)

You mean before yesterday?

[j4241]

Sadura scored an empty netter - only 3 by Corniea.

[MNHockeyFan]

Comparing Lindsay to Mobley is apples to oranges. As noted, Mobley had 73 points during the regular season. She also had another 23 points in sections and state according to the MN Hub. She could have easily had another 30 points if Breck had kept shooting in 3rd periods, but their coach constantly pulled the reigns in during blowout games. Mobley was head and shoulders above everyone her senior year. Class A or AA. Lindsay isn't.

This made me wonder, did Minnesota recruit and offer a scholarship to Mobley? I know she ended up at No. 3 Quinnipiac where she is currently their top scorer.

[jg2112]

Comparing Lindsay to Mobley is apples to oranges. As noted, Mobley had 73 points during the regular season. She also had another 23 points in sections and state according to the MN Hub. She could have easily had another 30 points if Breck had kept shooting in 3rd periods, but their coach constantly pulled the reigns in during blowout games. Mobley was head and shoulders above everyone her senior year. Class A or AA. Lindsay isn't.

This made me wonder, did Minnesota recruit and offer a scholarship to Mobley? I know she ended up at No. 3 Quinnipiac where she is currently their top scorer.

She was Class of 2020, which means she probably lost her spot to Addie Burton, Tella Jungels or Audrey Wethington.

[Eagles93]

Sadura scored an empty netter - only 3 by Corniea.

Ahhh, the hub doesn't show it as empty net. Even more impressive for Uma then, stopped 35 of 38.

[Slap Shot]

Tonka plays a much easier schedule this year than usual for a top 2 or 3 AA team (looking like barely a top 20 schedule right now).

Per PageStat thru 12/10 their SOS is 7th for Gross and and 3rd for Net.

Anyway, the goal isn't to tear her down - she's a terrific player. I would much prefer not to apply evaluative attention to a single player.

Hmm.

btw Stillwater is 10th in the latest computer ranking was 9th per the Hub as of Dec 7th.

[j4241]

Per PageStat thru 12/10 their SOS is 7th for Gross and and 3rd for Net.

My comments were for their entire season. They have played a solid schedule so far. If you’re talking about a kid’s point production, gross is what matters.

Hmm.

I get it. But when I say “here are some early thoughts on Ms Hockey” (last year), and follow it up pointing out a contra narrative to an expensive PR campaign, the response is “let’s just give it to a particular kid.” Then I say “here’s why that kid might not be deserving,” I get back a version of “you’re being mean.” I’m not trying to be mean.

btw Stillwater is 10th in the latest computer ranking was 9th per the Hub as of Dec 7th.

True (but not if you include all teams). She’s at 1.5ppg against 4 top 10ish teams (blanked in 2 of the 4) - better production for her than last year, and a testament to my starting point, which is she’s a very good player!

[j4241]

Some other great starts so far:

Boerger has 10 points in 5 games (don't believe she played against Armstrong) - all against top 10ish teams - 2ppg
Sajevic has 10 points in 6 games against top 10ish - 1.83
Broz and Higuchi are 2 and 3 in metro AA scoring - both have 2.3 ppg (only behind Puppe who's played a much easier schedule, and against a harder schedule than Tonkas)
Goettl has 1 and 8 in 5 against top 10ish (1.8ppg)
Retrum has 4 and 2 in 2 games against top 10+ish teams
Bartz has 3 and 3 in 2 games against top 10ish - 3ppg

Not to mention the D:
Hause at 1.67 ppg
Je Gazdik 2.14
Ju Gazdik 1.86

[Slap Shot]

Per PageStat thru 12/10 their SOS is 7th for Gross and and 3rd for Net.

My comments were for their entire season. They have played a solid schedule so far. If you’re talking about a kid’s point production, gross is what matters.

Hmm.

I get it. But when I say “here are some early thoughts on Ms Hockey” (last year), and follow it up pointing out a contra narrative to an expensive PR campaign, the response is “let’s just give it to a particular kid.” Then I say “here’s why that kid might not be deserving,” I get back a version of “you’re being mean.” I’m not trying to be mean.

btw Stillwater is 10th in the latest computer ranking was 9th per the Hub as of Dec 7th.

True (but not if you include all teams). She’s at 1.5ppg against 4 top 10ish teams (blanked in 2 of the 4) - better production for her than last year, and a testament to my starting point, which is she’s a very good player!

Just to be clear I'm not arguing on behalf of her becoming Ms. Hockey (she may not be deserving in the end), but I did I think there were a few statements worth addressing.

1. Their gross EOY schedule is not relevant when discussing production to date. How the remainder of the season plays out remains to be seen.
2. I also get it. "Expensive PR campaign"? But let's not focus on one kid while at the same time focusing on just one kid.
3. You discounted Stillwater and I simply said they're rated higher than you gave them credit for.

Carry on.

[PhunnsieMcHockeyDad]

Some other great starts so far:

Boerger has 10 points in 5 games (don't believe she played against Armstrong) - all against top 10ish teams - 2ppg
Sajevic has 10 points in 6 games against top 10ish - 1.83
Broz and Higuchi are 2 and 3 in metro AA scoring - both have 2.3 ppg (only behind Puppe who's played a much easier schedule, and against a harder schedule than Tonkas)
Goettl has 1 and 8 in 5 against top 10ish (1.8ppg)
Retrum has 4 and 2 in 2 games against top 10+ish teams
Bartz has 3 and 3 in 2 games against top 10ish - 3ppg

Not to mention the D:
Hause at 1.67 ppg
Je Gazdik 2.14
Ju Gazdik 1.86

Over the years I've enjoyed seeing nearly all of these kids play (my daughter is a '23 that has been on the fringe of the top group of players but skated with nearly all of them this summer). That includes Sadura and Lindsay who are both also fantastic. All of them have benefitted from playing spring, summer, winter and fall with great linemates - and while that's the nature of hockey today I also think it skews our view towards them. The top Gentry trio (plus the Gazdiks on the back end), The Blake trio (plus Wethington), The entire Andover roster, The entire Tonka roster, The Northern MN Super Team (Warroad)....it's pretty hard to NOT put up points when you have that kind of talent around every time you touch the ice.

If I had to pick one player to anchor a team and consider for Ms. Hockey it would be Hause. I have no connection to her, but she skated with my daughter at Final 54 and Prospects, and we regularly attend HM games (great barn and hot dogs). The Pioneer roster is good but she isn't surrounded by the same level of talent as the rest of the elite players, still she stands out every night. Controls the game, jumps in offensively, every other shift most nights, doesn't have consistent D partner....for my money she's the best overall player in the state and the most valuable player to her roster.

Lindsay is probably the best shooter in the bunch. Absolute rocket and she can really dial it in. Sadura does alot of the dirty work for that line and I love her game - no fear and she does have an edge and a little bit of a nasty streak.

Bartz was the best player I saw this Summer...big, strong, great skater. Nice recruit for Warroad....

Saw Broz tear up the young CDH Raiders a couple of weeks ago, she's really moved forward over the last year. Big kid, really nice puck skills, dominant when she was on the ice. Morrison hasn't been playing (I think she would be a strong candidate if she was healthy - great athlete) and I think that's opened up some ice for Broz. She'll stand out when she gets to Brown.

I haven't seen as much of the Gentry group - need to get to some of their games. Wasn't surprised to see them go into Andover and win...but I wish they played a tougher schedule.

Been fun watching these kids grow and become really great players. Nice bunch too - nothing but positives from my daughter when it comes to personalities and attitudes.

[j4241]

Great comments - thanks for sharing your perspective!

A couple of thoughts building off yours - Hause is a very strong player - deserves consideration. The one real goal scoring threat among the top D beyond shooting from the point. The Gazdik's are both very strong, too, and have put up similar strength-of-schedule adjusted numbers. Arguably better passers (but less creative puck carriers), defensively responsible, and make sure you know not to expect an easy night when you're playing them. In terms of pure shooting, I'd put Boerger, Morrison (when healhty) and Sajevic ahead of Lindsay (which I think is supported by their goal scoring numbers), but that is definitely a very strong quality of Lindsay's. Bartz is also a strong new addition to the Minnesota hockey landscape. She was the best forward by a big margin on the Northern Elite team this fall (though I don't think she was the best player on the ice in games against either Empowers or Tradition). As a high school player (which this award is about), she's putting up video game numbers. Will be interesting to see if being a senior transplant (and outshining the earlier transplant in Johnson and the long-time incumbent in Hendrickson) is an impediment to her consideration. Broz (along with Higuchi) has played fantastic hockey, but Broz play as a center has been top notch. I'd agree with your comment about building a team from the D out, but choosing a good 200 foot center would be close behind, and Boerger and Broz would be my top two choices among '23 forwards for that role.

[girlshockey4ever]

Man if I didn't know any better, I'd guess j4241 is Boerger's personal publicist.....or Dad.

And on the topic of Bartz...that schedule could not be more embarrassing. Those games make the current South Suburban Conference look good.

[j4241]

You took a pump for Boerger, specifically, out of that paragraph? Hmm.

And Warroad always has some embarrassing blowout wins. And I don't think Bartz is the best player in Minnesota, in spite of leading the state in scoring. But current PageState SoS ranking (vs top 4 teams in South Suburban):

13 Warroad

51 Lakeville South
45 Lakeville North
50 Apple Valley
30 Rosemount

[girlshockey4ever]

Well that comment and the countless others. "Boerger has been the best player on the best team for a few years."
Just putting the pieces the together.

And my comment about the SSC was rather tongue and cheek. However AHA, Simley, Crookston, Marshall, EGF, Mound WestTonka and Bemidji don't strike fear in the hearts of anyone.

[slowD]

I looked through Warroad's schedule and I find it far from embarrassing. I am guessing they are doing the best they can being that they are roughly 6 hours from the metro and most teams would play them but don't want to return the favor the next year. That being said, they only play the top 3 of 5 teams in their conference(power scheduling) and only play one of them twice. I am guessing they do that to try to get better competition instead of lop-sided scoring games. They are class A, which people seem to forget, and they play 7 of the top 10 in class A and they play 5 of the top 10 AA teams(6 if you include BSM in the top 10). They are in the top 15 for SOS this year. I watched Bartz a few times in the summers and during OS. She is very good. It would seem she is coming into her own a bit and is thriving in Warroad. I am looking forward to being able to watch her in person later this season just to see how good she and her 2 line mates, that are also pretty darn good, play together against the teams with non-embarrassing schedules. I agree with j4241... she is not the best player in MN but she is putting up points against some of the highest ranked teams in either class.

[j4241]

Well that comment and the countless others. "Boerger has been the best player on the best team for a few years."
Just putting the pieces the together.

And my comment about the SSC was rather tongue and cheek. However AHA, Simley, Crookston, Marshall, EGF, Mound WestTonka and Bemidji don't strike fear in the hearts of anyone.

I couldn't care less if Boerger wins. I have zero vested interest in her. My goal in the work I did (and subsequent posts) was to try to bring some attention to the gap between people's impressions of players and how good they actually are (particularly at creating offense, because it offers some easy ways to measure). My work last year left me with a clear impression she was one at the top of the heap, but also still somewhat a victim of that gap (in spite of her team success), the combination of which is why I've said I thought she was my a favorite.

If the winner were up to me, I'd focus on the kid who elevates their game during their senior year to prove they are the best player during their senior year. Not the one who was recruited the youngest, or by the "right" school, or the one who had an early birthday and so had an unearned advantage in the USA hockey process, or the one who has the most visibilty from playing in state tournaments, given that ends up being driven by how good your team is (and/or if you bounce around to the right school), or the MSHSL happens to put your school in a section with an easy path to state. Those all put a heavy thumb on the scale for and against certain people, and end up correlating only a little with who the best player is, in my opinion. My goal has been to document my own thinking about the imbalanced scales, and maybe put a very modest thumb back in the direction of fairness. I have no illusions about the likelihood of this making a difference - hence my reference to tilting against windmills in an earlier post.

The teams you mentioned are ranked 18, 26, 29, 75, 88, 25, 33. Within this small sport, those are hardly embarrassing opponents to schedule (though 75 and 88 are an unfortunate match-up for a top power). I am no fan of Warroad's - too many easy opponents, running up scores, recruiting heavily at the A level, stat padding - yuck. But within the constraints of being 5+ hours away, they are more willing to travel than anybody else to get good games.

[Slap Shot]

Pretty conveniently selective when discussing that SOS.

[j4241]

There was a lot of terrific hockey and close games to discuss yesterday (including a thrilling OT game by your favorite squad*, and what looks like a great performance by your Ms. Hockey favorite). I am sorry my posts led you to ignore all of that and instead were called to respond to this fairly inconsequential part of my postings at 1:44am on a Saturday night... I wish you peace and happiness this Holiday season.

*I was alarmed to see two head contact penalties in that game, according to the Hub (did not watch it), including one by 14 for Tonka. I hope this victim is ok (as well as the Tonka player on the receiving end of the second).

[jg2112]

Didn't #14 do this earlier in the season as well?

[InThePipes]

Didn't #14 do this earlier in the season as well?

Yep, what's the story on this one?

[bodyup88]

Who's the current front runner for Ms. Hockey? Also, has girls' hockey died this year? about one post every fortnight

[jg2112]

Who's the current front runner for Ms. Hockey? Also, has girls' hockey died this year? about one post every fortnight

I would argue the winner should be Hause. She's third in scoring on YHH's current #1 ranked team, despite having missed five games. She is one of three seniors on that #1 ranked team. Her team plays a difficult schedule, which mitigates stat padding. She played her way onto the U18 team, which should count for something. She isn't the beneficiary of a PR campaign, and she's played in the MSHSL for five years, which is an argument against a couple other worthy candidates this year. I'm not sure it's valid, but it is an argument.

[bodyup88]

JG, you make a great case for Ella Hause. Hill is having a phenomenal season with the only blemishes a 3-1 loss to Edina on Dec 1 and a 2-1 OT loss to Minnetonka at Pagel in mid December. Like some other Ms. Hockey candidates, she missed four games while playing for the USA U18 team in Sweden. In her first game back last week she helped the Pioneers shut out Holy Family on the road. She is averaging over 2.1 points per game in what you described as a challenging schedule with games vs. Stillwater, the two aforementioned Lake conference foes, HF, Andover and Warroad. Coming up in early February is a game at Maple Grove vs. the presumptive Section 5AA #1 seeded Crimson. That should be a very competitive game in which MG also has a very strong Ms. Hockey candidate in Stella Retrum. Surprisingly, (or maybe not) Hill Murray is not playing Section 4AA foe Gentry.

[jg2112]

JG, you make a great case for Ella Hause. Hill is having a phenomenal season with the only blemishes a 3-1 loss to Edina on Dec 1 and a 2-1 OT loss to Minnetonka at Pagel in mid December. Like some other Ms. Hockey candidates, she missed four games while playing for the USA U18 team in Sweden. In her first game back last week she helped the Pioneers shut out Holy Family on the road. She is averaging over 2.1 points per game in what you described as a challenging schedule with games vs. Stillwater, the two aforementioned Lake conference foes, HF, Andover and Warroad. Coming up in early February is a game at Maple Grove vs. the presumptive Section 5AA #1 seeded Crimson. That should be a very competitive game in which MG also has a very strong Ms. Hockey candidate in Stella Retrum. Surprisingly, (or maybe not) Hill Murray is not playing Section 4AA foe Gentry.

No, not surprising at all, and after this season, there will be no competitive reason for HM to play Gentry outside of Sections. Gentry will lose its top 9 scorers and both goalies.

But back to Ellah. Look at almost every other top Ms. Hockey candidate and there is an argument against (injury, comparably-talented senior teammates on the team and in her position, team-building via transfer, PR, strength of schedule, blatant stat padding). None of those arguments hold water with Hause.

[Slap Shot]

Who's the current front runner for Ms. Hockey? Also, has girls' hockey died this year? about one post every fortnight

I think some people are shying away given the constant negativity and attempts to single out girls playing a sport to criticize and attack.